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Problem with any thinking that the government will do whats right when it doesn't have to is silly. The government won't do what's right until its forced to do so out of the pure economics. They've gotten drunk on free money and heck, if they could they'd put microsoft under its wings for "national security" reasons.
So, unless you can find a couple of honest judges the government will keep on fleecing its citizens, because they can and no one can stop them, yet.
Very sad commentary...
No faith in government to do right on its own. 0
Complete .....
Nuts....
First off Tim Howard really doesn't care about these companies or any of its shareholders.
Doing this would spur so many more lawsuits and another 10 years of discovery.... heck they can't even calculate interest ... (which btw should be at 10%)
The very best thing the government could do is void the warrants and return the capital taken above the redemption of the sps.
This would put Billions back on the company books.
Put the shares back on NYSE
Then... the share values recover value and they could announce a secondary offering at real value.
What does this accomplish... alot.
Then at fair value government get 20-40% income taxes state, local, federal and a boost to the economy.
Government also saves some face and it still gets to regulate.
....
15 years old... would be driving by now...
15 years is not temporary but near permanent
So sad
The narrative is too long ... no one will read all of it and its damaging to fannie and freddi.
The warrants are trash...
Give back the money they've stolen
Pay interest on what they owe
Release them back to the companies
And do this by friday.
to act for the public it has to pay for that privilege which is a taking so its admitting they owe simple s that
I don't normally reply to your misgivings as often your discussion points and ranting of prefs superiority create little substantive information or value, but when things are obviously misleading, like a few others that come off thinking they know everything or some qualities where all they do is act authoritative, corrections of misstatements are necessary.
Simply to state, that fhfa, that is lead by treasury and the executive branch of government has done anything significant to return these two to the hands of its owners faithfully caring out their duty as "conservators" while extracting 300 Billion and wanting another $200Billion when, factually they were never in trouble and never needed any assistance is clearly comical.
If after 30-60 days fhfa / treasury or executive branch really wanted to restore order they'd have done it. But, instead they keep hiding behind ... "oh congress has to act"... well that's simply nuts, why ? because it wasn't congress that put them in shackles. The issue is, nobody up there wants to kill their golden goose.. And there has been no movement to really get that done. The fake capital level malarkey is just that; its unbelievable.
At some point something has to be done as the government is running out of options and stealing more isn't one of them, eventually, the right thing will be done; and when it is the investors will be rewarded, even pref holders, we are in this together, like it or not. Just please don't post nonsense.
Writing that fhfa has done anything constructive or positive to end this fiasco; while stealing 300 Billion is disingenuous at best and down right laughable. Fact is if they were really trying, fannie and freddie would be back in the hands of shareowners without any dilution stabilizing the mortgage market and doing the work they were chartered to do.
But, alas, fhfa hasn't opened the book or turned to page 1.
So, don't sniff the smoke; as its actually laughing gas.
fhfa has been working hard for years on preparing the gses for life after conservatorship
Now that is total nonsense.
The fhfa has done nothing of the kind.
if they actually were... then it would have been done 14 years ago.
as laughable as can be.
ROTFLMAO
Exactly,
Dividends weren't allowed...
But interest was..
Meaning the debt was a loan not an investment
So, payments had to be repayments
And thus its a mess.
They should just recast this at 3% interest. Lona repayments and return the excess w/ interest.
The greedyment has made a mess of this.
They also have an unlimited time line... we are otherwise time limited... ie... we age out... they don't.
Actually,
Thats not the standard. The standard starts at "control" and signficant ownership. Fact is you can consolidate an interest far less than 80% or 50% where there is control.
They've completely ignored the standard.
Problem is... from an accounting GAAP perspective, since the government controls the entities and have a large effective ownership thru in the money warrants, they should already be including them in the national debt. Which really isnt that much of a big deal now... 5-6 trillion onto 34 trillion is a pittance. It was significant back 20 years or so ago when it was just 13 trillion... so
theres that.
But does the sec reporting people care...
apparently not.
no one that matters seems to give a toot.
"the public it serves" to me... that pretty much means nationalized for public purposes is code for takings = pay for it.
There is no good honest reason why fannie and freddie shouldnt be immediately released from captivity.
Money returned to them plus interest for the over payments. (thus the liquidation pref - vaporized)
The warrants (fruit of a poison tree) shredded
and poof...
recapitalized at sufficient marker to allow common stock back on nyse... prefs then get happy as they now get market value for their investment as well.
once this is done ...
soon, prefs get their dividends - or redeemed / repurchased....
And commons get fair market value...
Government oversight continues thru an honest fhfa or successor... but no longer a political toy...
this could all happen monday and by friday... all would be well.
sadly...
They took like a pirate ship did in the movies the sails of fannie and freddie... how easy it would be to restore them...
The pen is mightier than the sword... just do it and do it now.
enough already!
Very nice...
If only, they cared..
The entire hera to fhfa etc... needs to be unwound.
Give to the people what is the peoples and let my people go!
Such a sham
Rodney,
The real problem was the believability of the government fhfa and treasury wasn't questioned for the first 12-18 months. The narrative was... zombie this.. zombie that.. heck they even had jimbo cramer repeating the lies they made up. They created a whole bunch of noise noise noise... and shuffled a bunch of paper and other entities were in fact failing... so it was ... believed that fannie and freddie were problems too..
that is ...
until they started actually issuing financial statements and presenting information that sounded horrible... o the billions and billions and billions of loses piling up...
But, all of it was whole bunch of smoke and mirrors... underneath all of this were no actual loses.. the reserves were contrived and made up. it was as if poof gone.
they sold it well ...
the narrative, the proteciton of 11,000 super secret documents. oh the story the told all
Bull Shxt
Nothing but lies from the very start.
The malfeasance here is astounding... the making of a good movie.
if only the writers weren't striking...
and
if we knew what the outcome would be... (we hope)
completely agree.
but how do you sell somehthing for $0?
yeah they are...
most lawyers are stupid and lack common sense - (i've worked with 100 plus lawyers... most weren't very smart; haven't found but one or two judges of many that really knew what they were doing ... issue to issue.... whether a magistrate or federal - sad really, they don't care to actually read motions and rely on their clerks)...
judges just aren't invested (time wise) in matters they "judge"
most judges are lawyers...
ie.. most judges are stupid.
The problem herein lies ... the methods upon which and the timetable to "save" the companies...
The concept of conservatorship has always been aligned with doing so for the entity and ie. the owners or person (think individual if you will) not to rape rob and pillage. There is the issue... most or many for example why Michael Oher is filing lawsuit is you are not supposed to benefit at the indifference of the conservatee ... ie...
So what if Brittney spears "person" were sold, ie. personal services contract while under conservatorship or such in perpetuity? would that have been allowed... what if they'd said anything they do you can't challenge as part of it. Silly as it seems that's what they've done here to fannie and freddie.
ultimately conservatorships are supposed to be to benefit the owners of the company, person or being. Not to benefit some third party no matter how... apparently wonderful the idea is... like... the "public it serves" that's quite comical bull chunks... what utter nonsense.
So, when is enough enough... especially since they never needed this "treatment" to start with.
When is that lawsuit going to be filed... like Michael Oher... they need to disgorge the ill gotten gains. its that simple. really it is.
what has been described here... is..
cookie jar accounting...
which is what fhfa has bestowed on the gse's by treaterury
Criminal syndicate.
I expect the warrants won't be used... if they do try to i expect further lawsuits. government is starting to lose its grip on these two as honesty and truth are beginning to prevail as ... to many lies to cover up misdeeds are beginning to devour those that created the myth.
should expect some resolution..
shouldnt take another 5 years.
probably 2
Why do people continue with being uneducated..
This is 100% wrong... yet a statement...or a narrative continually being repeated...
The background is that in that 2007/8 period both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac went,
effectively, bust. That’s sad and all that. But both the Federals and private shareholders
recapitalized them both.
Fact is fannie and freddie were never undercapitalized and never cash flow negative from operations throughout the financial crisis.
Sure they took a hit; but their losses were so small they easily skated thru it.
Had government not been there to load them with bad debt and excess reserves... we'd be at $300 a share right now. That is what the government has taken.
The remedy for a takings case is the fair value of the property taken.
So, if the government took your land in 1900 and returned it in 2000 they'd what give you 50c an acre? when its worth $25,000 an acre today?.,,, i don't think so.
the value of the takings is the value of what they've stolen. either return it to me or pay me.
why not get it right....
value of the taking was far greater than 30 million.
240Billion would be closer to accurate.
more with interest.
Maybe a number like this would get the greedyment to the table.
So... 10% interest was okay for guberment to charge on their loan... later converting to ALL.... but they deny it to the parties they screwed. Also, the damages were merely a token of the taking....
So many crooks up there.
Now that the verdict is in... and the government was found to be doing dirty deeds...
Can the award be appealed at a higher level for an award of "just" and fair compensation? Say, about 240 Billion dollars to the shareholders?
lamberth should step down...
these two entities did not bring the world to its knees that's a false narrative and completel unsubstantiated lie. yet its repeated and dumb people believe it becuase its repeated often enough by people who should be smart enough to know its 100% wrong.
fact is ... these two entities never had negative cash flow from operations. its losses were attributable to cookie jar (fraudulent) accounting trickeration and once the scheme didn't materialize they reveresed the excess reserves and whammo .. profitability...
Fact is their credit losses were far more manageable than purported to be.
lies.. all dadgum lies...
lordy be...
the interest rate charged on the fnma. fmcc money was 10% while tarp loans were 3or4% ...
the government also gave themselves warrants at $0 cost and at $0 material exercise price; thereby cementing a takings claim if used as alleged "collateral".
why ?
Why were GSE's ... government sponsored entities treated less favorably than non gse's?
why?
was there an ax to grind ... was there some type of discrimination? was there something to prove or some other hostility?
Seems there are hard questions that need answering...
Correction...
The warrants weren't negotiated... they were taken by the left arm of the government ... taking from the right arm of the govnernment.
fact is... very hard to "negotiate" with yourself... - honestly and fairly... oops.
Correction..
government didn't "buy" anything...
it TOOK it.
big difference.
Nope...
if calabria had a set ... he'd have prevailed had he wanted to ...
so yes.
blame him
too.
just a s show... really...
Near 8B in income on combined 2B (less than) shares =$4 eps x4 = 16 x 13 = around $200 a share...
So, yes blame calbria, munchin, watt and the rest of them. all those that could have done something. but didnt. why? was it incompetence or personal greed?
The self dealing... is problematic... it can't be overlooked or assumed away.
impossible to ignore.
Sadly, government, including lamebreadth can't allow the shareholders to win. it disrupts their agenda.
Rodney,
Fannie and Freddie, never had a cash from operations deficit throughout this crazy. They never needed the cash.
And they had adequate reserves
and adequate capital.
This has been a joke / farce from the outset.
Any (decent) forensic accounting person with knowledge of banking could root this out.
Don't forget that the fml were also secured by first lien positions in homes. Which generally, keep and kept their value and if they didnt keep their value were again generally and in the aggregate more or less equal to 70-80% of the sale price... so again, generally, the reserves of writing down and off 100% of the loans were ... bizarre to state the minimum, but nutso crazy to be specific. Having worked with banks, s&l's and mortgage co's in the lending and loan valuation arena... it was comical what they did, infact it may very well have been criminal.
but hey, no one but me was watching... which is why i called them out on the cookie jar accounting back in 2008 when it occurred.
The real ugly truth is the greedyment can just extend the fruit of a poison tree warrants for another 20 years... by some sort of contorted "agreement" between themselves and further screw us... hate to give bad people ideas, but they thought up the evil by themselves so not like its not obvious.
gosh i truly don't care for these band of thieves .
Still look at this as 1 giant roll of the dice, considering the malfeasance of the government and its crooks and cronies.
My wager is total share count under 100,000 and if we lose it all its only a few %'s of total NW and it sucks but changes nothing for my family. Win and ... its all good
Isn't it crazy... for the very right reason this crazy was struck down as well as them allowing discrimination in schools... for the very same right reason of constitutional protections, fairness and equity... those morons at scotus... couldn't see the charade and theft of the gse twins and fix that. Had those people had done the right thing there as well this would long have been overwith... no reason for fannie and freddie to be wards of the state like this. These are clear and absolute takings of private entities for public use that even a middle schooler would have gotten it right.... heck kindergarteners... they pick the right thing 90% of the time, and this mo's couldn't...
wowsa...
this needs to end and end now!
He doesn't have to... would be far better and easier for him to buy up a boat load of commons and prefs and then force a resolution. He'd make a mint with 10% of both fannie and freddie common.