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nope, just wondering if they (APS) will send out an email to everyone. If they don't, then we all know that APS is toast and no one will play their picks again.
well crap, there goes all my money. I noticed PWEI is gone from APS banner too. I wonder if APS will send out an email about this
correct, I see this all the time. Order is so large it doesn't pop until way later
True, true, good point.
something tells me this will be at that .80 level by next week with PPS and APS announcing it. I would expect news tomorrow or Monday to make it go up more. Whatever "news" it is, should help it swing to at least .20s and higher. APS will lose all their peeps if they don't get another 300 to 500% maker again.
Yup exactly. The fact that they have won in the courts and have a congressman speaking at their rally is a huge factor. That should pressure Peabody to do a settlement or keep getting bad press.
A couple of good videos, talking about keeping Peabody on the hook for the retirees
http://www.wowktv.com/video?clipId=9235923&autostart=true
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=576136935756584
Lots of positive for PCXCQ. May be why we are seeing some positive today. We should keep seeing this trend going forward, as long as Seeking Alpha quits trying to keep it down.
Everything is pointing positive, and for some reason Seeking Alpha sees the need to keep it down. They did this against AAMRQ and a month later they announced to keep shares intact. I have no doubt that will happen here.
Remember, 35% goes to the Union and the one video he states they will be selling that to pay for the retirees and benefits. That means they aren't going to keep 35% stake in the company forever.
Oh yes I fully agree. I'm not going to let that article written by someone who hasn't followed this until just last week to scare me. It will dip but it will be back and it will be fine. Just have to ride the waves for awhile.
I have no clue. That guy said it on the site. I'm in the usa. Feel free to educate me on how this works then
Yeah, I saw they did this for AAMRQ as well. It was over $1 and they said it will be wiped out. Of course, I think a few weeks or a month later they announced in their POR that they will keep the shares. We all saw what happened when they announced it. Shot up to over $6. They could be trying to do the same thing here. Get in very low and wait for POR to release they will do the "fair" thing to stakeholders and keep shares.
I know a lot of people state that 35% goes to Union and a lot will go to creditors and debtors. However, you are still going to need other investors and you also have to keep in mind that the Union is NOT going to just keep the 35% for years. They will most likely sell off pieces of that in order to pay for all other benefits and other things they have to do for their people. Since company is not paying for it, they have to get that money somewhere, and that's by selling piece of that 35%.
That is true, volume has been huge.
I fully agree about the indicators. It was doing well until seeking alpha shot it down. Now they are trying to do it again
In any case, thanks for the info and feedback, greatly appreciated.
nothing but the best of luck to you as well!
Roger that. Yup I saw that he says he's short on it. Very annoying. Guess we will have to see as I've been in thia for over a year.
Thanks, good points. We all know and agree on that. My only problem is the last time they posted an article, this was on fire. This was closing in on .60s. It fell a little bit to the .40s and was almost to .50. Then the seeking alpha article came out and by the end of the day it was back down to the .30.
I think you are right and someone did buy a huge chunk of .585 (50k) shares and I think some bought more. I would think there is a reason for it, but for them to just shoot this down is kind of odd when it was building momentum. I think they did this for AAMRQ as well.
Yup, I wrote a comment on their site. If you see at the top, it says the guy says:
Disclosure: I am short PCXCQ.OB
So it appears he may try to be manipulating the stock in order to make it go way down and get in on a lower price. Or, I could be WAY OFF.
Who knows. But my comment to them on the site was pretty much asking why would the former CEO say to protect the share holders, and now the new CEO state last week to protect "stakeholders". I even said regardless of the definition of the "stakeholder", why would he choose that statement wording, other than creditors/debtors, etc. It seems kind of odd to use that wording. I wouldn't think this guy would want to try and mislead anyone to something false, especially with all these law suits waiting for this to be over.
What's your opinion on the recent seeking alpha article that just came out? Do you think that will have any affect, or will we get to see the reversal in the upward area like we all expected it to?
Yeah, i thought so too. But looks like Seeking Alpha is up to their crap again:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1657822-equity-ownership-in-patriot-coal-shares-threatened-by-bankruptcy-proceedings?source=email_rt_article_readmore
I still call BS because no one really knows until a POR comes out. We all know there is a good chance it gets wiped out, but I'm still thinking new warrants will be issued to existing holders. Otherwise lawsuits will be raining down on PCX after BK for all their promises.
Even the recent article by the CEO stating "stakeholders". You can say whatever it means, doesn't matter. He shouldn't have used those words and just said creditors, debtors, etc. By saying "stakeholders" anyone in a court room can think it means to include "shareholders". Just over a year ago the former CEO already stated to protect the share holders. You have 2 different CEO's mouthing off about it. Can open up a big can of worms on it if they don't keep shares, or at least issue new shares to existing holders. Only other thing I can think of is they settle out of court to the share holders that held pre-BK.
where's the "like" button?
And how do you know this? What info do you have that will support this? I've seen some charts and other documentation, but I'm not seeing anything other than maybe hanging around .30
what happened to the .50s and .60s you said this was going to be in?
Anytime Sam. Did your lawyers make any comments in regards to these statements? Or are you waiting to hear back?
Definition of a "stakeholder" from the "business dictionary"
A person, group or organization that has interest or concern in an organization.
Stakeholders can affect or be affected by the organization's actions, objectives and policies. Some examples of key stakeholders are creditors, directors, employees, government (and its agencies), owners (shareholders), suppliers, unions, and the community from which the business draws its resources.
Not all stakeholders are equal. A company's customers are entitled to fair trading practices but they are not entitled to the same consideration as the company's employees.
An example of a negative impact on stakeholders is when a company needs to cut costs and plans a round of layoffs. This negatively affects the community of workers in the area and therefore the local economy. Someone owning shares in an business such as Microsoft is positively affected, for example, when the company releases a new device and sees their profit and therefore stock price rise.
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/stakeholder.html
Also here is the Wiki page for Stakeholder - Corporate. You will notice they refer to "shares" and "shareholders"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakeholder_(corporate)
Well they said "stakeholders" because they mean everyone, not just shareholders specifically.
A lot of after market. Looks like a lot of buying to .31
I would think this will stabilize tomorrow and we should get back to the .40s. It ran up several times this week real quick, should be able to easily do it again.
A lot of people bashing, but that's because they want in at cheap and low levels. Good luck with that. Buy in now as it should be running again tomorrow.
Once POR comes out confirming the CEO comments:
"Patriot remains committed to a fair outcome for our stakeholders, while securing the necessary savings to successfully emerge as a long-term coal producer," concluded Hatfield.
Then they will keep shares intact and we'll see another AAMRQ. Creditors, debtors, existing holders (including PCX workers, unions, etc), will all want this as it will help the stock recover and get back on track. Everyone wins and gets their money and no one will have to follow through with any law suits.
Once former CEO and now new CEO makes these claims and hold true to those promises, won't be able to do anything to sue.
This will have some dips here and there, but will eventually bounce up to .40s and on up past $1. I don't think too much higher until POR confirms what I believe will happen, which is they will keep shares intact.
We all know a huge majority of stock get canceled in a BK, but like AAMRQ, they are keeping the shares. PCX will do the same thing. They know there are class action law suits waiting for this to get out of BK to pounce. If they keep it intact, no more law suits and it's back to business.
yeah, that's what I thought
uh, and does that mean this opens tomorrow at that, or some poor person just bought 50k shares at .585?
Understood. Already holding long, so I guess I have to keep riding the waves. I'm waiting on the official POR then. Probably won't be out until their next hearing in September perhaps.
this one I posted earlier:
Link to the article talking about the shareholders
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/patriot-coal-statement-regarding-favorable-184900438.html
"Patriot remains committed to a fair outcome for our stakeholders, while securing the necessary savings to successfully emerge as a long-term coal producer," concluded Hatfield. "The decision of the Bankruptcy Appellate Panel is a welcome development that will help Patriot achieve these goals."
oh really? What makes you think that?
This took a huge dump today, especially after a nice climb to almost .60
what's your take on all this Ernie? Would have thought with that statement by the CEO would had sent this flying up higher.
I'm assuming a lot of this flack is from that Seeking Alpha article.
No POR has come out, but the statement by CEO I took to be very positive
Indeed, everything is pointing that they will keep shares intact, OR at least issue new warrants to existing holders. So it may get canceled, but existing holders will still get something. That's a huge statement by the CEO.
For AAMRQ CEO said almost the same thing, so I'm not sweating any of this. People are going to take profits and go in and out. AAMRQ had some days like this, but this will eventually get over $1 and keep on climbing to $2 and go from there.
recent sell off is due to an article of a guy that doesn't know this stock or company very well. A lot of us are long holders, so it going down doesn't mean anything. Just means it has a bad day and there will be more good than bad.
Link to the article talking about the shareholders
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/patriot-coal-statement-regarding-favorable-184900438.html
"Patriot remains committed to a fair outcome for our stakeholders, while securing the necessary savings to successfully emerge as a long-term coal producer," concluded Hatfield. "The decision of the Bankruptcy Appellate Panel is a welcome development that will help Patriot achieve these goals."
I hope you are right brother Sam and this is what we've been waiting for.
If this is a PR from PCXCQ and the CEO, this will be huge
Yup, agreed. Plus the Peabody being kept in check to take care of their retirees will also free up millions. We have a lot of ways to go, but this is all good signs that Patriot can get out of BK a lot easier and satisfy their debts and loans.
There is now a good chance that they CAN keep the existing stock, or at least issue new warrants for existing holders. I have no doubt that they are starting to turn up production on all areas so this way when they get out of BK, they can show a profit. Getting rid of a lot of those liabilities will be a huge money saver.
Well Sam it dropped like that quickly because they announced they were going into BK and being delisted from the NYSE.
This is already in BK and now everything is pointing to them getting out of BK and forming a POR.
hahaha FACE PALM!!
UMWA members ratify settlement with Patriot Coal
August 16, 2013
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
[TRIANGLE, VA.] Members of the United Mine Workers of America (UMWA) who work at Patriot Coal operations in West Virginia and Kentucky today ratified a settlement the union reached with the company late last week that makes significant improvements in terms and conditions of employment over a federal Bankruptcy Judge’s order from last May.
The final tally was 85% in favor to 15% opposed. Members from 13 local unions participated in the vote, which was overseen by UMWA local union tellers and conducted at worksites. The UMWA International Auditor/Tellers have certified the vote.
“The membership has made it clear that they are willing to do their part to keep Patriot operating, keep their jobs and ensure that thousands of retirees continue getting the health care they depend on and deserve,” UMWA International President Cecil E. Roberts said. “This has been a difficult and uncertain year for our members. But I believe that in the end, they understood that we had done a lot to improve what the judge had ordered. They also understood all that was at stake and resolved to move forward in a positive way.
“But as we work to keep Patriot a viable company into the future, we have not forgotten how we got here and who is responsible,” Roberts said. “With this agreement, we have foiled the schemes of Peabody Energy and Arch Coal by continuing to both provide health care for retirees and maintain union jobs at these mines.”
Roberts noted that the settlement with Patriot does not provide enough resources to fulfill the promise of lifetime health care benefits that Peabody and Arch agreed to provide to thousands of retirees from those companies.
“We are now able to turn our full attention to securing the lifetime health care benefits Peabody and Arch promised these retirees,” Roberts said. “If those companies thought our public effort to highlight their poor corporate citizenship was over, they will quickly find out otherwise. We’re moving into a new phase of that effort, and soon. We fully intend to hold Peabody and Arch accountable.
“It is also more critical than ever that the bipartisan legislative efforts in Congress to provide help to these retirees move forward,” Roberts said. “This settlement has not solved that problem, it has only bought us time to seek a more permanent solution.
“The clock is now ticking towards a day when the funding we have been able to secure for retiree health care benefits will run out,” Roberts said. “It would be unconscionable to leave these senior citizens hanging, wondering if they will be again thrust into the uncertainty they have endured the last 13 months. I urge our friends in Congress on both sides of the aisle to move as fast as they can to renew the government’s promise to these retirees, their dependents and widows.”
source:
http://umwa.org/?q=news%2Fumwa-members-ratify-settlement-patriot-coal
Didn't that Video I post with the Union President state the deal that they struck?
He outlined all the benefits they got back, and 35% stake in the company, etc.
I believe they may be holding out all the details as they are having the final vote today with all union members. If they all approve it, perhaps then whatever details are missing, they will post them and come out with a news PR
Doesn't appear to be very bullish or holding strong when it just downed 10% at end of the day. Hmm, not seeing that .30
anyone else smell the BS?
Patriot Settlement Explanation Video