Puzzled
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Well. Don't put to much weight on that. You can find the exact same sentences in the release from 14th of Nov last year when Solly increased the share count to 27 mil. This is written every time.
He increases the share count.
RD you must agree that Solly must be really proud of himself since he does this all by himself.
Absolute ridiculous week for us.
I find it weird that ECAB has not updated any news about SIAF since 2015.
http://www.eurochinacap.com/en/latest-event/
It seems more logical that ECAB get their money back and inveat atrsighr into TRI-way in the pre-IPO. That is what I should do.
From Avanza homepage you can read that orders can be put in by yourself for the nordic countries, some european countries and USA and Canada. They also state they trade on most of the other markets in the world if you call their brokers to place an order. Just call their brokers at 08-562 250 00. Like stated before. No chance they not trade on HK.
Here is what it says in Swedish "Du kan handla i nästan alla länder i världen hos oss. På sajten kan du handla med de nordiska listorna, vissa europeiska samt USA och Kanada. Övriga marknader kan du handla på genom att kontakta vårt mäklarbord på tel. 08-562 250 00."
I think different. If you buy a ferrari and crash it. Have you then not lost money before you sell it? If you buy siaf on margin and see it crash there will be a margin call. So even if you haven't sold your purchase power has decreased i.e you lost money.
I totally agree with you Snow. Like to add that Solomon before talked about patience. I guess being an entrepreneur you have to have an extreme patience. If you know this as Solomon I think he might be abit suprised that shareholders aren't as patient as he is. That is why he adressed it in a recent call. I think compsred to him he believes shareholders to just want to mske profit fast. I believe this disturbs him a bit. I guess if you are a long term holder and never sold a single share I guess one has to be stressed. But SIAF charts and knowing the style of Solomon has given loads of opportunities to trade the share. One can't be disappointed about that. Geez Oslo today is really awesome!
Thanks Maui. I try.
SIAF from another view
Solomon told in one of the latest conf calls that siaf is a 3 generation story didn't he??
He said now is first generation siaf. He, even if he is old, see this as a long term investment. I think that the longer the investment is the less one cares about short term volatility. I doubt S cares at all if the share price is decreasing. He has the bigger picture. Maybe he doesn't even think of a quaterly dividend at all. But it doesn't mean he is an idiot. And idiot would not have built this company. Just because someone doesn't understand something doesn't mean he is an idiot. It can also mean that no one ever really explained the problem to him nor given him the solution. For him siaf is 3 generations and this is the first.
For 8 years shareholders have tried to put hope in the fact that Solomon would understand us. To help someone understand he is wrong one can ask leading questions that will make him think about the answers and then realize he is wrong. Most people have that ability to do that I think if someone helps them. We all have had this opportunity at every conf call. But we have not taken it.
For once maybe we should look upon SIAF from the eyes of Solomon to understand how he feels and thinks. Instead of trying to change him. There are others for that.
I don't get the punishment talk about shorts and Solomon himself. I do not think anybody should be punished. SIAF has never had a better opportunity to be a success as now thanks to seller, shorters and postponed deadlines. But at this moment we are making money and SIAFs valuation is awesome. We should all buy and do high 5s.
From Q2 call Sept 2 2016.
Solomon said
"And as a first generation farmer, Sino Agro Food usually a very poor in cash, but very rich in assets. And when we achieved that, although, the asset always looks good in the company, but it doesn’t affect in the capital market. Hopefully, like – if you’re a first generation farmer, usually you’re second and third generation people, your family will benefit.
So I would say that, SIAF is first generation, and hopefully, our shareholder will benefit, but it’s not that far away. But I’m fairly confident that spin-off will definitely pulls the value of the assets – of the company, and so every shareholder will benefit from it as well. Thank you."
I just increased my stake 30% today after the superb news.
I think you are correct in what you are saying. But I will add uncertainty about what will happen with my SIAF shares after the dividend date and the uncertainty about when I will be able to trade my new TriWay shares and on which exchange. Some people see it as a slam dunk but some don't so they sell they are fed up, fundamentals doesnt matter sometimes. In combination with postponing things, promised updates that fail. Some people seem to take everyting that has been said about dealines from the Company as a law. And well it fails alot, and the same mistakes happen over and over again. Investors and share owners get upset and sell, they get bored. and then they just wait wait and wait like myself to go back in.
I talked about Pre-IPO Investors before, I do not think they are worried about the Triway company's shares as much as retail Investors. Normally that is what a pre-IPO is about, to invest, hold and later cash in. They are used to it.
I didn't say it will take 2-3 years. I made a picture to think of IF it takes that long how will Triway be valued. And how will investors look upon havung their shares locked in during that time. History of SIAF management talks for itself. But hope is stronger than realistic thought eapecially when the share price falls. I think it should be the other way around. When shares are down instead of hitting oneself over the head and also calling everyone stupid "because you cant see the real value" why not ask a question why is it so low? And maybe come up with a logical explanation,.a realistic one. Pretend it is not SIAF just look at the chart since dec 2015. Do you think it is still strange that people are fed up with SIAF ?
One forgets that a 50 % decline needs 100% to get back to break even.
5 usd? Sure how do you know? If I had say 20 musd to invest in triway I would negotiate either getting more shares or paying less which is the same. Maybe I as an inveator ia not ready to take the risk maybe my valuation differes from Solomns. What will happen? But hey it is a slam dunk anyone qho doesnt see it is a moron. But wait maybe desperation of price rise forces one to think positive. I like to a myself "what can go wrong?"
RD since u are so certain of your ideas about triway and siaf I hope u have sold everything u own mortaged your house and put everythibg on siaf. 5 years from now siaf will make u filthy rich. If I was you with your ideas and knowledge I would be a pain in the *** to Solly and the crew asking questions at every call, emailing him and the IR constantly I wouldnt let my money rest at the hands of as you call him "a savage". But reading this forum for long time I know you do not. Question is why?
So a part of your capital will be "locked in" for a few years then and untradable. Then I think it is understandable that some people sell now. Maybe they don't want their capital to be locked in even if it has a "promised" value of 5 to 10 times. Not all people are long term holders.Follow this forum there is alot of talking about the true valuation of SIAF. But many times there at too few questions about why it is so low. All talked about is shy it should be higher. But thwre are 2 sidea of the ooin. Answers seems to be focused on short sellers, funds that sell out and a stupid ceo. Maybe also the share golders can be accused of low price. Why not ask more queations at calls? Why blame IR and Solomon everyone can change pick up the phone and talk to mr Lee or email and email again until answers are given. Or you can always hope he atarta reading Ihub a and realize he is wrong. By the way look at this through Solomons eyes. What are the benifit for him with a high shareprice now? What doea it matter to him if a guy/girl whow own siaf 10 years are happier than one who owned siaf for 1 milli second? Some people are certain that this share will go up 100 of times. But one has to ask that if Triway fail to qualitfy for a large exchange what will happen? As I see it that SIAF will only hold shares in Triway after the 55 million is payed back? Probably SIAF also will do consultancy to Triway. But the question is that what value will Triway have to SIAF if it is not quoted on an exchange? The whole point about putting triway as an own company and do an IPO is to show what value siaf really has. If someone doesnt want to pay 150 musd in the ipo. What happens? History tells us that siaf has a very hard time to get loans even. Why are everyone so trusting now about this when there is an uncertainty about 1. Valuation 2. The uncertainty about what will happen.
Risk always has a price. The higher risk the lower price. Uncertainty about siafs future and invested money and how long it will take for Triway to be on whatever asian exchange is keeping the price down.
Unless Triway is on an exchange we will never see siafs real value. What do you think will happen to the shareprice of siaf after the ex divi date?
So if you have let's say 100 usd invested in siaf and get triway shares for lets say 40 usd then theoretically your siaf shares will be worth 60 usd. And the 40 usd is not a value set by a market but set by the net present value of Triway today. Let's say that this Triway part ends up in your account and there is no market for it. The it takes say 3 years for Triway to starts to trade on a new exchange. Do you still think that the fund is a moron fund? Do all funds have the right to own shares like that? No. During these 3 years do you not feel that there is an uncertainty? How will those 40 usd be valued by a fund during those years. I am not saying it will take 3 years it can take 1 or 5. The history of siaf team and exchanges is not the best.
All say that the value today is much higher. But it is not. The value is what the market will pay. If you think it is higher give me that price and I buy some shares in the markwt and be happy to sell them to you.
So if I get this right. At the div date we will get a part of a company called Triway that is believed to be traded in the future right? But we will not know when or where? And we have no idea how this will influence the SIAF shares. If I was an institution or a small fund I would sell out before that date. If I do not I will hold in my account something with no value (that I can't sell) and that will be traded (hopefully) on an asian exchange. In SIAFs case it can take years for Triway to be on that exchange. All the time SIAF fail to deliver on time and every time this happens shareholders think the next time will be different. This uncertainty is not like being the big players.
If you took part of the Triway Pre-IPO how much would you pay? Probably not full valuation now would you? And how big part would you like to have? I doubt Solomon will give away anything over what he decided. That is tricky for him and would stall the IPO.
If one tells a person he is doing something wrong. There is a big chance he gets defensive about it.
If one asks that person a question instead he might understand that he was wrong without being defensive about it when he is trying to give you the answer.
The second statement is so much more effective I think.
If they are open to take questions why would'nt we let them have the questions? Do you want another call where they lose their temper. How do you think that will benifit the share price and the trust?
I don't know how many times I've read on this board "I was cut off. Ididn't get my questioned answered. I was going to ask that" etc. Don't you agree? Why be stubborn to the end. When someone offers a solution to something that has been complained about so many times, then adjust to that change. Don't give up now.
1 million would have been enough then.
But still a chance to tell what you think using your vote. Even if Sauron with his one ring can control the company we shouldn't agree with him and give up. If no one shows they are on his side of all the voting power he has maybe he starts to think. Or not. But there is a chance and it is a better chance than posting on a forum and hope he reads it.
Anyway. Big night tonight with new authorized share count. I wonder what that means to us. Prolly something really bad.
Where did you get that from?
But in this case it doesn't work because Solly is a raving lunatic with no understanding of markets or valuation. In Sollys case he thinks that the market is wrong and he is right. Interesting call it will be.
Maybe I am mistaken but didn't either Dan or Solly say at the conference call that the bank who are giving the loan also wants to handle the IPO so that is the reason why it takes time. But why? How can he not understand how the markets work after all this time. So strange. Maybe his great grandchildren will.
At least we can all be happy that Solly lost 100 000 dollars today on his new shares...
Maybe we should ask ourselves why WE trusted the management year after year hoping they would change insted of blaming management we should blame ourselves. I have started to blame myself and it feels good.
"Gross profit from Project Development declined by 53 percent to USD 3.6M (7.7M). In addition to the annual Chinese New Year holiday, inclement weather and one-time factors resulted in a period of only three weeks to perform contracted services throughout the first quarter, contributing to the marked decline.
Without this sector shortfall, sequential quarterly total gross profits would have increased by approximately USD 1.6M (or 7.5 percent)."
The report isn't that bad after all, but hey that is what we said about a month ago too and look what happened.
Well actually if you read the press release today under SJAP
you will find this
"Integrated Cattle (SJAP)
Due to the relaxation of trade restrictions on beef imports to China from 11 exporting countries, the price for live weight domestic cattle has fallen from RMB32/Kg in mid-year 2015 to an average price of RMB25/Kg in the fourth quarter of 2015, and had bottomed at RMB15/Kg during the first quarter of 2016. As a result, the Company curtailed its sales of live cattle to 851 head in the first quarter of 2016 (vs. 5,032 Q1 2015), and anticipates selling larger numbers of cattle in the upcoming quarters, as prices rebound."
http://www.globalmeatnews.com/Analysis/Chinese-beef-firm-blames-falling-prices-for-first-quarter-loss
Guess we are not the only one...
Not talking about Bertil but about the 3 original musketeers.My point was that unless those 3 buy for themselves we will not see a company buyback either. Anyhow it will be an interesting call this time.
ZH, are your planning to confront Solly at the call or are you just like the rest of us hoping he reads this forum on daily basis and hopes that finally he realize how stupid he is and how clever we are?
I realized that my critizism of management is really just a projection of my feelings towards myself. I never sold at 17 I sold at 8 on the way down and now I am in again. I have so far blamed management for all this when it is really my own disability to judge management's incompetence that made me still have the stock in combination with greed after a great increase in the share price. Now every day I just try to find small rays of light to get hold on so my mind can start believing on another raise like spring 2015. Will it happen? Let's see. Why am I still holding? Hope, just hope. Not that management will change BUT the shareprice increased from 40 to 170 even the fact managemwnt was s**t and not transparent at all. So can we do it again? Sure we can. Will it take time? Yes. How long time? No idea. But selling the share to 'punish" managemen that is really stupid. Being here so long time I came to 1 or 2 conclusions about S. First he doesn't care about share price yet and he doesn't understand how the market works. Reason to this is he doesn't have to. He gets is 200 000 dollars per year and he has 1.2 million shares and ALL powers in the company. He is like darth vader and siaf is his death star. He likes being that guy who is in the middle there is where he gets his kicks from.
So will he do a buy back? No. Why? Well shareprice is lowest in years and he nor anybody else in his closeness is buying shares. Does he have money? I think he has. Why not buy? Doesn't he believe in the company. The key to a buy back is that he has to believe. If he or anybody else is willing to buy some shares now then a buyback would also be accepted from the inside guys. Otherwise it would be hard to motivate one. Maybe the real question at a call would be "Now when the shareprice is at its lowest level why doesn't anybody , especially you Solomon, increase their holding". We know he didn't want to do that during the dilutive phase but now when that stopped. Why not buy a few thousands to tell the market "I believe" . There is not really any reason not to buy more shares at this level unless he knows something we don't or that he just refuse to understand the market.
So why would S or anyone else care about the share price now? S has never during the last 6 years at one single moment cared about the price of shares. If he had he would not have diluted. When it comes to Fredrik why would he buy shares when he will get loads of cash from interest on the loan. The norwegian guys who put alot of money down for an 40mNOK investment on the other hand. Yikes!
Someone knows something I guess.
Questions for the call:
The share price is very low at the moment and we all agree that more institutional investors should take a look at the company and buy in to get stability. What is the main reason for not promoting the company with for example road shows?
Has the A shares held by 3 founders complicated institutional investing?
Would you accept giving up the A shares if that would help the company bring in more money?
Has it been discussed at any point to have the company or part of it traded on a chinese exchange?
Is the restaurant chain buried and forgotten? How fast can the company change produced species. I mean if now eels and cod are less profitable than prawns. How long does it take to produce more of prawns and less of eels to get better margins? How fast can you adapt to the change in market prices?
How much do we own of the mega farm? What do you think that is the most important task.you have as a company CEO to increase shareholder value?
When will Fredrik be on the board?
Happy we got that cleared but don't you think that after promoting SIAF as one of the core holdings in a portfolio for a long time followed by the fact posted on the public homepage that the food companies has a break or is in a sideway movement can be interpreted that one should sell siaf and move on to other holdings, for some time, that will have better potential. Besides all this was just a theory from what he wrote on the webpage and how people reading it can interpret it.
JF explained. I don't know if it was posted after closing or not but what I do know is that the members under the jordanfund doesn't communicate via the webpage since the webpage is for the public. So the true paying JF members have gotten this information through emails with more extensive research published before it is posted and that explains the selloff. Now all the rest of non members who doesn't pay for membership will read this. So is my theory is correct the price will fall further today in Oslo today. I hope I am wrong.
From JF page tonight and our "friend" Nisse writes (google translated)
"Sometimes JF his standard recommended portfolio. A day like today. JF has over time the focus mainly on the gold-silver-oil lithium-HITEC.
How it looks today:
G U L D: Semafo, Sandstorm Gold, Endeavour Mining
Oil: Peter Lundin, Ecopetrol, Maurel & Prom, Gran Tierra
Silver / lithium: Excellon, Endeavour Silver, Fortuna Silver, Lithium America
Hi-tec Tobii, Clavister, CellaVision
Strong spices for those who so desire (high chance-risk): Maya Gold & Silver, Enquest
We do not have the heavy companies within rsp sector as they often have heavy overheads and hard to make money on lower prices. Nor have we with matbolagen, who looks to be in consolidation phase"
Where guld is gold and matbolagen is basically food companies.
So there it is a probable reason there is a sell off in SIAF is because JF told it's followers that gold,oil,silver, lithium and hight tec is the way to go. And not mentioning siaf in the basic portfolio
On the positive note ia that when JF tells to turn around people will follow. In the mean time maybe or hopefully Solomon will show his legs to get some attention from other corners of the world. I see some funny translation in the above quoted text. But never mind.
So what is the point of all this then? Why spend time at a forum asking eachother questions that have no answers really?
Well you know the eason. The A shares. Solomon makes the calls. He will probably blame shorters for the price fall lately. One should ask what does Solomon get from all this? He is an entrepreneur not a CEO. Maybe a simple question would be to ask why he hasn't bought any shares lately? He will never step down. So cancel you A shares Solly if you dare. But he has more important things to do like practicing cutting off people at the call. So who will ask some serious questions this time?
I bet it will like always, the call. No one darea to ask any questions. Not even the +10000 shares guys.
Well the last time we had a market moving press release I had the feeling that someone knew about it beforehand so when looking at the recent days share movement it can't be good. Why would they have a press release today on a friday?
One can, on the other hand speculate that the reason for a conference call so far off the reporting date is that the Company expect big news only so the criticism agains S will not be that huge on the call. But looking at the share price , yet again, I feel I might be the only one that think so.
Well people speculate about kinds of things all the time on this board. I just asked a simple question that popped in my mind. Not all things discussed here are connected to something the company says. So how much money do you think an IPO on the norwegian exchange would bring to the company?
Well it was a question TF.
All I hear is a listing on the Norwegian Exchange and not and IPO no one has discussed or mention an IPO on this board or from the Company. So I am just asking. What do you all think? Is that the only way we will get money?
Please enlight me if I got all this wrong.
So if I get this right the plan was to list on Merkur and not tell anybody about it? No Roadshows no Investor meetings etc.
I wonder if the Norwegian Investors who just invested millions in the Company share are going to sit back and cheer Solly or if they will ask any questions on the call?
So Solly Thinks that this is great Company and can't adjust one single inch to either side? Nor can he buy one single extra share.
So now the plan is to list the Aquaculture business on the Merkur also and not do an IPO?
Yes I have my SIAF shares in my Nordnet Kapitalförsäkring so that is doable. Had them there since 2010. No problemos. I can also buy and sell with just a few clicks, need not to call any broker.
From the transcript:
"Solomon Lee - Chairman and CEO
Not really because progressively, we are looking at other alternatives to increase the gross margin on the sector of that business, as well expanding the marketing sector to gain more higher profit selling commodities. Also at the same time with the new entrant coming up and with our cooperation with big supermarket chain that’s coming up. I think we don’t have to wait full cycle but there will be gradual increase to replace the downside of the live cattle trade at the moment."
Which super market chain? What is he talking about? He says 'than'ts coming up' so I guess he is talking about something besides TESCO.
Thank for posting of the transcription.
Cheers
When did they redesign the homepage? Looks really good. Even SiAf Sweden is there.
So who will ask some serious questions on the call? And who will be hifiveing S and telling him how great he is? Probably be a nice call as always since questions are easier to ask on the board instead for real. Maybe it will change this time when the mob is angry.
The weather report?
Since the bad Q2 report was blamed on weather I wonder if anyone has followed the China weather channel closely since last report? Sometimes I get the feeling that there are alot of people out there that knows alot even though there are no updates or releases. Strange feeling.
Besides that I believe the only way to move the company in the right direction and away from Highway Solomon is to actually start to ask some serious up against the wall questions to Solly on the conference call. Not about listing since obviously they can't talk about that.
Shouldn't the farm be up running now?
Weird action last days. Intense volume but no increase in price. I blame my loss of hair the last 5 years on Solomons misscommunication with the market.