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I don't think wrspq has any licenses....they were sold as part of the asset purchase by Samara's new company, along with the 2 orbiting satellites. Yes, MGTY1, satellite technology is extremely valuable. The problem here is that wrspq has nothing left but a shell. Could that NOL-rich shell fit into broader plans by Malone or others? YES! That's our hope. I do agree that Malone had that vision when he got involved with wrspq in the first place. The question is, does he still see wrspq as a means to an end? We don't know. The satellite "world" you envision can still come to pass without wrspq's NOLs. But, I think we all agree that there is a possibility that these NOLs will fit into someone's plan.
Thanks MGTY1, and farewell! Yup, good luck to all.
correct Jel. This new development is interesting, and could be considered positive news to some degree, however, it doesn't mean much by itself. there are countless examples of bankrupt companies that sell the rights to trademarks. In fact, trademarks are bought and sold all the time. BMW purchased the various trademarks from failed British sports car manufacturer British Leyland years ago, and that's why you see the BMW Mini today. Same for MG Rover, which ended up with a reborn MG, which then failed, and the trademark is now with a Chinese company. The worldspace brand has some value in India because that's where the subscribers were. It makes good sense for any new radio venture there to try to leverage that brand. However, with only 160,000 subscribers, the brand isn't worth a big sum. When it finally comes out via court docs, I'll bet the revenue from that license fee is very low.
Keeping the worldspace brand in India because they had 160,000 customers under that name, so there's brand recognition to some degree. That makes sense for them to license the name to help them sell their new service. Interesting development. Hopefully, we'll see some positive movement.
Interesting find Jel.....
The headline is misleading, as it says 'satellite', but it's strictly internet or terrestrial radio, not satellite. The encouraging part is the 'purchased the right to use worldspace name'. So, that's some cash income to wrspq, but probably to the India subsidiary, so who knows what claims exist from the former employees on that front. This is certainly a good thing. But I am cautious about reading too much into it.
Generally, contracts have bankruptcy provisions to protect each company from having to deliver on a contract with a bankrupt company, which is either going to go out of business, or is severely restricted in operating due to BK. So, regardless of proof, just look at any run of the mill contract and you will see provisions to deal with bankruptcy. As far as wrspq struggling....that struggle ended when they shut down India operations and layed off everyone. Who's struggling? The lawyers and Schmitz? I don't think so. All that remains is an office, some cash, perhaps the old sat in a shed....and the potential savior: NOLs on their books. That's it! There's no struggling entity. It's Schmitz and probably an office worker cutting checks to themselves and a bunch of lawyers. Just look at the financial reports. There's no income, no other employees, nothing. So, one can speculate about Fiat, Ondas, GM, Liberty, Siri, you name it. Doesn't matter. This boils down to an accounting maneuver, hopefully. Who will want those NOLs? If no one, buh bye wrspq. Let's hope someone wants them! That's our only hope.
but you are making a BIG assumption that Malone is still involved. He may be, and we all hope he is. That would be great for us. However, you can't ignore the fact that negotiations with Liberty broke down over a year ago. You also can't ignore that Liberty has been repaid for their DIP financing (via the recent asset sale). The wildcard is how much Liberty paid the old creditors for their wrspq debt. If pennies on the dollar, then Liberty's investment (risk) in this going bust wouldn't be material for Malone. So, I wouldn't consider Malone's interest as a slam dunk certainty. We just don't have enough info to be so sure.
"spun off into the clean shell" for the NOLs is the key. If that happens, we win. That's the only thing that matters, and it doesn't matter if the spin off is a shoe company or satellite related biz. We will know the answer between now and when all their cash is gone. That's a finite period of time, but unfortunately could be many months when you take their cash balance and divide it by their current monthly spend.
you are correct about global media, and satellite technology. The flaw in your logic is that wrspq is nothing but a shell now. It's an accounting vehicle carrying high NOLs. That may have value to Liberty or some other player per your point, and we all hope that's the case. However, there is no technology or assets within wrspq anymore, other than that aging sat in a shed, and I think that may be questionable as well. So, if Malone's master plan can take advantage of those NOLs, we win! If not, and no other party can, we lose! It's that simple. I'm holding, so, I'm betting we will win. But, Pres Obama's travels, Black Eyed Peas, and all that doesn't mean anything with respect to this situation. Sorry mate, but that's a fact. wrspq is now a debit that perhaps, and hopefully, someone can use. to paraphrase starwars, 'that's our only hope'.
MGTY, if you have insight into all this, then great. But, I'm skeptical of what any of those things have to do with this. I suppose some other major company, other than Liberty, could jump in and hook up with wrspq to get the NOLs. That would be great for all of us. We'll find out eventually. Just calculate the run rate of total cash expense per month and divide into their cash on hand, to get months of life remaining. That's the outside estimate on when we'll know. All the lawyers and Quest will evaporate when the cash is gone if there's no reorg prior.
Interesting MGTY. Well, I'm not selling either, but not because I'm as optimistic as you, but because I have already figured this was more of a risk than a Vegas casino. I think there's a shot it will reorg, but I'm not nearly as encouraged as you. Malone certainly was very interested almost 2 yrs ago, but that doesn't mean he is now. He didn't risk much $ in this, so the fact that talks with Liberty broke down and there has been no word since doesn't bode well for your theory. However, you never know. I hope you are correct. Time and cash are running out, so, we'll know for sure once the money is gone.
MGTY.....what assets? There are no assets other than the aging sat in a shed, and office equipment, computers in office, stuff like that. Other than the satellite, that crap can be sold in a yard sale. Licenses and intellectual property all went to Yazmi in the asset sale.
I really don't follow your observation about remaining assets. Certainly, it doesn't require all these legal fees and Quest turnaround fees to dispose of assets worth much less than the fees! So, like I said.....they are lying in the court document as to why they require more time to stave off lawsuits, or, they are truly going to liquidate the "assets", which means, no more wrspq. If they lied in the court document, well, that's good if they end up reorg'd, but if the latter, it's a bust out scam.
Yeah, and the financials show the continuous drain of cash. The BK doc about extending the time period to remove lawsuits to BK court is pretty standard, however, the language about the reason is a bit troubling: it doesn't say they are preoccupied with reorg, it says they are busy trying to figure out sale of assets. Let's hope that isn't the case, because if it is, then the lawyers and Quest are sucking all the cash out, and that will be that. There are no assets left but one aging satellite in a shed somewhere. All else went to Yazmi in the asset sale. And, you can't sell NOLs. So, you have to ask yourself, what the F? Paying lawyers and Quest millions to sell one old satellite? No f'n way. So, either that's a flat out misrepresentation to the court, or, if really a true statement of intent, then shareholders are being robbed blind. The fact that there's no mention of reorg is very troubling. Now, one could say that they are deliberately not saying that to keep it quiet, but that really makes no sense.
LOL...that describes it pretty well!!!
The problem is the characterization in the court filing as Schmitz working "full time", as justification for 90k/month. Yes, attorneys and other consultants work on multiple projects, but there's only 24 hrs in a day. It's certainly possible the hotel gig was an absentee consulting thing requiring minimal hours. Can't tell without seeing the billing. I'm just saying that 90k/month is a lot of cash to one guy. I agree, it's a crap shoot, and we'll know soon enough. But, ya gotta admit, it sure looks strange. On another subject....According to an article in a NY paper, Malone addressed Liberty shareholders to comment on the B&N offer, and said, contrary to rumor, it has nothing to do with synergies with Liberty's other investments, including SIRI.
Here's my problem with Quest Turnaround Advisors.....I've mentioned this before concerning how much they are billing wrspq. Right now, the bank acct has around 800k left. In around 9 months, all funds will be gone. Quest is billing for full time services of Robert Schmitz....and has been for a long time, every damn month to the tune of around 90k/month, since end of 2008. Interestingly, good ole Bob was also the full time restructuring officer at the Fontainebleau Hotel (Miami Beach) in Jan 2010, perhaps longer, can't tell by the info on Quest's website (see link). So.....how is this magician able to be full time in both places? Well, if he's able to pull this rabbit out of a hat and emerge from BK with shares intact, that's great. If it doesn't happen, well, I guess we shareholders got screwed. Stay tuned...and watch the money......it's going fast folks! Wonder what kind of car Bob's driving these days....LOL
http://www.qtadvisors.com/cs-fontainebleau.html
I'm not sure, but I believe the only thing that didn't go to Samara in the recent asset purchase was the spare sat in a shed. Why that didn't go with the deal is a very interesting tidbit, but, could be Samara couldn't raise enough cash to pay for it, so they held it back. I believe the spectrum licenses went to Samara, but not sure. Certainly the ones needed for the two operational sats had to go, or those sats would be kind of worthless, as Samara would have to apply for new licenses, a costly process for a swindler with no money. It's in the agreement, but I don't have the strength to look at it again! Liberty is buying Barnes&Noble for around $1B. I'm not sure what that means to wrspq and siri, but $1B is a lot of dough. Doesn't leave a lot of spare cash for more satellite expansion, but, maybe the B&N deal won't be all cash. who knows. just gotta wait and see.
yeah, the guy who filed this, pro se, just wants some money before the thing disappears. I say, buddy, quit your whining....you have that nice 1Worldspace stock certificate, suitable for framing, will be a collector's item one day, worth more than the $500 he wants....so shut the f up. just sayin'.
I'm an IT professional. You could be right that there's all sorts of great stuff being built on their website. I'm not saying there is or isn't. What I am saying, is that pre-existing external links to that url don't mean anything in and of themselves. The fact that they've password protected the website means that they don't want public access. Why don't they want such access? WHO KNOWS! Sure, it could be because they are building the new site we all hope is going on behind the scenes....OR....they simply have nothing to post for public consumption, but don't want to give up the url, so they just password protect it. Easy, no cost, done. I have no clue as to why, but I'm saying, to speculate based on a bunch of old links is really a SWAG with no basis in fact. Yes, this board exists to share opinions, but it cuts both ways. For every wild theory, there will be opposing points of view, some wilder than the theory itself. I tend to gravitate to facts, it's my nature. I hope, like everyone here, that we'll soon have positive, factual info. As of today, I'm sorry to say there is nothing out there but wild speculation.
It doesn't matter what was there before it was taken down. They used to operate two satellites too, but no longer. I fail to see the relevance, sorry. If broken/dead links were not so common on the internet, perhaps it might mean 'something'. But, it is very common. How many times do you click on a dead link and get a 404 not found, or a server error? I encounter that several times per week in my web browsing experience. So, sorry, but I don't think it has any meaning at all.
sorry, but linking to it means nothing. These are now, in essence, broken links (because of the password requirement). So, those sites that had links, haven't bothered to eliminate them. Broken/old links are very common, and the fact they are there is meaningless. It just shows that website maintainers at those various websites haven't cleaned up the old links. Happens all the time.
no split. they just issue shares to raise money on the open market. but i don't see that happening. The good news for us (if this all goes as we hope) is that there are so few shares. That makes the potential value of them huge if this goes well. The instant demand that would occur would force the value to shoot up quickly since they are virtually worthless now. But, it all depends on how the restructure was done, should we be lucky enough to see that happen. there's a lot of ways of putting deals together, so who knows how it would end up.
SIRI is poised to move big once the big money funds join the party. It is overpriced on a PE basis, but, if you look at what's happening with their business (debt reduction, low capex because sats are up there already, adding subscribers), it's a cash machine in the making. Now, if we can only see some kind of JV/spinoff with wrspq in the mix.....wow! (visualize a prayer circle).
MGTY, yes indeed....all opinions and views are welcome, of course. You mention at the end of your post, "capabilities of 1worldspace". well, that train left the station with the asset sale. There's nothing left but a corporate shell. Now, that shell may have a lot of value due to the NOLs, and, therefore could be used to park some form of Liberty-SIRI-DirecTV-whatever spin-off, etc. If you are considering that as some type of passive capability, then I'm with you. But, satellite technology itself is no longer part of wrspq. It's gone. The equipment (except the spare sat in the shed), licenses, employees, patents,....gone. But that doesn't mean it's over. They are two different issues. There's value to be had here. Now, we wait to see if there's enough value to restructure and preserve common shares. I sure hope so.
MGTY....you are assuming that every move in the tech space has something to do with wrspq. And, there are comments saying Malone would never allow the money to be drained out of wrspq by lawyers. Well, I have no idea if the $ is being drained or put to good use, and we will all know eventually when this is done, one way or the other. Hopefully, wrspq emerges from BK with shares intact. However, you need to realize that technically, Malone may be out. We just don't know. Yes, he holds debt, but he was repaid, via the asset sale, all of the DIP money. Since we don't know how much he paid to buy the debt, we don't know how much skin he has in the game. So, if Malone still engaged, that's good for us. If not, adios common shares. We just don't know. But, to assume he's still involved and controlling the various lawyers is a big assumption, especially in the context of Liberty-wrspq talks breaking down last year. Additionally, the situation with wrspq website is totally meaningless. I remember the site when the Liberty/SIRI- wrspq talks were going on, and wrspq was still opertating the India stations. Most of the content was out of date then, and yes, some changes were made as the BK unfolded, but so what? Now, there's nothing but a password prompt. Again, so what? I'll say one thing, wrspq is doing a very good job of NOT leaking any info. There's nothing out there, public release or otherwise, that indicates what's happening behind the scenes. We just have to wait for hard news. Until then, all of this wild speculation has no meaning.
They had a website, so, with the possibility of using it to publish something in the future (who knows what that may be), it's easy just to keep it all sitting there, unused, behind authentication. It's such an insignficant thing, at minimal cost, that it's not worth worrying about. Put it behind a password, and hands off from there. Then, if you need it, just re-publish by removing the password. I don't think the website's existence in its present form has any meaning whatsoever, just as their physical mailing address has no meaning. All that remains is a corporate entity with virtually no assets, other than the name worldspace (or is it 1worldspace?....whatever), and the NOLs. The latter is the only thing that matters.
yeah, but I don't follow what point you're trying to make here. Yes, Samara tried twice, and succeeded once, in getting the company, though his latest deal was for the assets, not the company itself, which is why all that remains is the wrspq shell, with the NOLs.
The website is as I said.....you get prompted for a password, so it's a closed site....that means nothing. There's no way to know what's behind that authentication....could be simply a file on a webserver. They had a website when they were operational, so, nothing to build, not to mention, building a simple website is something anyone can do in a few minutes nowadays.
My point is that we can try to read the tea leaves all day long, but in reality, a lot of the speculation is more about inventing tea leaves out of thin air or things which have nothing to do with reality, then reading tea leaves that actually exist!
bepop...what website? If you are referring to the wrspq site that is password protected, that doesn't seem to indicate anything really. Perhaps you are referring to something else. You also mention Samara as having bought a company....did you mean Liberty? Sorry, just unclear as to your point.
This is going to come down to one of two scenarios:
1. lawyers simply sucking up the remaining cash, company busts out completely broke, game over. A lawyer with a corporate bankruptcy firm could really shed some light on whether this is common or even a possibility.
or....
2. NOLs rule the day, and Liberty does something with the wrspq shell to preserve those NOLs for use with whatever real entity can be spun into it. Though I don't think SIRI/XM sats have significant video capability, you never know...and....even if they don't, that doesn't mean a hook-up with DirecTV, or even Dishnetwork isn't possible.
We're all betting on #2, of course.
the omnibus hearings are just placeholders for general hearings about the case. if there's nothing to bring before the court, the hearings get cancelled. the dates have no real meaning.
yes, indeed. I have sold some SIRI over the last two years, but only to take profit for use elsewhere. Wish I hadn't, because I had a huge amount of shares, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do! Still have quite a lot, so all's good watching this thing lumber along to greater heights. I've bought in at various prices since it was at .07, so I've never lost any $ on this stock. I have a lot of confidence in SIRI management team, and Liberty's involvement. Karmazin and Malone are brilliant.
I'm holding SIRI for long run. Liberty is so heavily invested there now, something's gonna happen during the next 6 months or so, perhaps a buyout or a merger....something....all good for shareholders. And, if we're all really lucky, the plan will include wrspq NOLs. Sweet!
Yeah, me too. I have considered it gone for quite a while now, but I'm optimistic that it will emerge from BK.
Logic dictates that we have one of two possibilities. One is a simple bust out, where Liberty has walked away completely, and the lawyers are just siphoning off the remaining money. Or, and I think more likely, is Liberty is still around trying to figure out how best to use this shell. The former is a great conspiracy theory possibility, but there are too many players to pull it off, not to mention a BK judge overseeing it. So, I still like the latter as most likely.
Right...ok, that's what I figured. It's all on the NOLs boys. Nothing's new....same situation as has existed for months and months since Liberty bailed on the "public" negotiations and the assets sold. Someone asked about the spectrum licenses....I believe thay also have left the building to Samara's new scam, I mean business.
thanks, but the only number that matters is what Liberty paid out to those creditors to inherit the debt (which would represent Liberty's "investment" in wrspq, and their risk. I didn't think that was publicly disclosed, but I don't know. If you're saying Liberty paid out $116M to the creditors, that's huge. But, if they paid X to the creditors, to satisfy wrspq debt of $116M, that doesn't have real meaning at this point without knowing how much cash Liberty spent (how many cents on the dollar). So, if they paid off the original wrspq creditors at 10 cents/dollar, then they only have $11.6M at risk....chump change to Liberty, and less incentive to hang around (from the perspective of losing an investment). Preserving and using the NOLs is a different incentive, of course.
Jel....liberty owed $116M for the wrspq debt they bought from original creditors? I never saw a number attached to that. I hope it's that much, because that would be a strong incentive for Malone to NOT let this corporate shell go to waste. A write-off of that much money is something he would work hard to avoid. Do you have a source of this info you can share? That fact is important to whether Liberty does the cut and run or hangs in for the NOLs and salavaging their debt purchase money.
So, based on those financial statements, it looks like wrspq has a bit over $1M left in the bank, most of it in the account tagged as "yenura account", which I assume is where they parked the money received from the sale of assets to Yenura (samara). They received around $5M in that sale, and I recall that Liberty got a lot of it as repayment for their DIP financing of wrspq. At the current rate of expense, the cash remaining will last around a year I think, perhaps more. Now, if you like conspiracy theories, this might be the plan to simply let the hogs slop at the trough and suck out the rest of the money till it's all gone. As of now, you have lawyers of all flavors getting paid, and the so-called turnaround guy. One thing interesting is the accounts payable ledger, showing companies waiting for money. I'm sure they're not happy about this situation.
with Apple? Now that's an LSD-induced trip, not a dream. Jeez! Right now, I'd be thrilled with ten cents a share!
This document is from last year, pre-asset sale. Note the checkbox on how much they said company assets were worth: $500M. Yeah right. It wasnt' worth that then, and it sure as hell isn't worth that now. Remember, definition of assets in BK does NOT include NOLs, as they can't be sold and distributed to creditors or shareholders. They have a lot of value if the company stays intact and moves forward, but they are not an asset in strict sense of the term.
Can we see the bottom of the trough yet? The hogs still slurping away.