Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
I understand how you don't want to give your e-mail address away to the whole world so let me tell you about a couple keys on your keyboard, sounds like you've never noticed them, one is called Backspace, one is called Delete, look closely, they're there.
I know this will sound utterly amazing but what you could do is paste the e-mail into a new post, then use backspace or delete to get rid of your e-mail address, and then submit the post. Walla, everyone gets to read your e-mail without finding out your e-mail address. Incredible isn't it?
I found "In 2003 Shatura signed a contract with Publics advertising agency
for development of new advertising and branding strategy." in this pdf file http://www.intrg.com/pdf/Top_100_eng_final.pdf
I don't know, the year, 2003, does match up with the resume.
Why would the MMs sell millions of shares to each other day after day when the market closes for cheaper than they could have sold them for all day long on the open market?
When you hit the 300,000,000 depends on what figure you use as the starting point.
Do you start from the 156,934,000 figure that what was on their website until early May (Yes I know the web site says "as of 4-15-2008" but it wasn't put on their website until early May) or, do you use the figure they have now of 205,425,967?
Using your count of 73,597,921 that means we are currently at either:
156,934,00 + 73,597,921 = 230,531,921
or
205,425,967 + 73,597,921 = 279,023,888
"If it is MM's selling, they do not always get what they can, because one day the T trades came out less than anybody ever was on bid for that day."
That is not inconsistent with what I'm saying. Let's say the price was stuck at .01 all day long, it opened at .01, never changed from .01 and closed at .01. The MM makes a bunch of sells to us all day long totalling 10,000,00 shares all for .01. So a $100,000.00 worth of sales (10,000,000 X $.01)
What you'd then see on the AH entry is 10,000,000 @ .0095.
HFBV gets that $95,000 (10,000,000 x .0095) and the MM gets to keep the other $5,000 as a commission.
And actually I keep saying MM, I'd say its just as likely if not more so that its a broker acting on behalf of HFBV.
Fine, etrade pro shows the AH trades as buys or sells. Iäll take your word for it. We could argue about whether etrade should report them as buys or sells or do as IHUB does and list them as unknown. I say IHUBäs way is the correct way, but some of you think IHUB is less than correct in areas, I certainly have no difficulty understanding that point view.
That's all you've got?? Ok, good night to you too. I'm losing respect for the abilities of the HFBV cheerleading squad.
A buy is a trade that takes place near the ask.
A sell is a trade that takes place near the bid.
What where the bid and ask today at 4:09PM when the AH entry was made?
Any chart you have that says the AH entry at 4:09PM is a buy or sell is guesstimating based on something like the average bid/ask for the day or the bid/ask at 4:00PM.
By definition there are no bids and asks when the market is closed.
I don't know where you're getting your information from. I get mine by clicking at the top of this screen where it says HFBV:Quote and then clicking on trades. The AH is never listed as a buy or a sell, its always listed in the question mark column because there is no bid or ask after the market is closed.
The millions AH is always at the low end or even lower than all the trades for the day. I believe it goes like this.. A MM has millions and millions of diluting shares in their possesion from HFBV but hasn't actually purchased them from HFBV, they've simply been tasked with selling the shares and get a cut of the action as payment, somewhere around 5% it seems. The MM sells shares to us little folk all day long, getting as much as he can for them. So say its a very very light trading day and the MM only is able to make 3 sales all day long.
10:OOAM 50000 @ .008
11:00AM 100000 @ .0085
12:00PM 200000 @ .009
Then at the end of the day the MM officially purchases 350000 shares from HFBV at like a 5% discount, pockets the difference, and then sends 350,000 shares off for delivery to our brokers.
So going, with the simple example above, (50,000 x .008)+(100000 x .0085)+(200000 x .009)= $3,050.00 worth of shares sold to us that day. After market closing the MM then officially buys 350,000 shares from HFBV at about a 5% discount on the $3,050. So, the MM records an AH trade of 350,000 @ .0083 which is $2,905.
The MM collects $3,050 from us, gives $2,905 of it to HFBV and pockets $145.
No I can't "prove" any of this, its my opinion which satisfactorily explains to me what I am observing.
Well I'm glad you submitted the question, "What is the current OS, has it changed since the last statement?" Not quite as direct as using "the D word" but essentially the same question.
If they come out and admit dilution then at least they've got the respect for us to be honest and open about it.
I keep seeing a lot of calls for "proof" of dilution. In my eyes, the way this thing is trading is pretty much proof in itself. Millions and millions of shares being sold at the ask day after day but the price just goes down and down, come on.
I still maintain that the AH trades is the day's tally of dilution. Does anyone have a sum of the AH trades thus far? I've kind of got a very rough figure in my head in the 60 - 70 million range. I was hoping they where going to quit at the 50 million mark, the difference between the currently claimed 205 million outstanding shares and the 155 million it was in the recent past. But if the rough running total in my head is correct we're way beyond 50 million. Roughly in my head, working from the 155 million starting point and adding the AH trades each day, we're somewhere around 220 million. According to the last QA we won't go beyond 300 million but things are going to suck for quite some time if we've got to endure another 80 million shares worth of "AH" trades. What are we doing, an average of about 3 million per day lately?, at that rate it'll be at least another month and a half before things turn around.
The company has not stated they aren't diluting. They've stated they don't anticipate raising the authorized shares. Big difference.
Soapy Bubbles should put the question to them straightforward tonight, "Is the stock being diluted, and if yes to how many shares?"
So all you Level II folks, yesterday it seemed that the big sellers where still out there and willing to sell but not for less than about .007 - .0075. Does it look like the big sellers are actually gone or is it just that they've moved up a little on what they're willing to sell for into the .008 - .0085 range?
Just watching this without Level II, it looks to me like the share dumpers are still there but today they are only willing to go down to .008 - .0085 whereas yesterday they'd go down to .007 - .0075.
Here's another way to figure it.
Its generally been 4 million or more shares per day but I'll go with your lowball example of 1 million shares. The outstanding shares of HFBV is about 200 million (I'm rounding down a little so we're working with nice round figures here). So a trade of 1 million shares represents 1/200th of HFBV's entire shares outstanding.
Microsoft's outstanding shares is 9.3 billion. Let's round that down a "little" to 9 billion and see what 1/200th of it is.. 9000000000 / 200 = 45000000.
So, 45000000 shares is 1/200th of Microsoft's entire shares outstanding.
Given that Microsoft closed at 29.78 today 45000000 shares are worth $1,340,100,000.
Yes today there was 1.5 Million at the end of day which is unusual since as you say its been around 4 million a day lately. However, today at mid-day 2.5 million fired off all at once. If you add the 2.5 million to the 1.5 million its the typical 4 million so I wonder if anythings really different other than some of it was recorded mid-day instead of all at once at the end of day.
According to this web page
http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.php?id=chart_school:technical_indicators:chaikin_money_flow
the cmf measures buying & selling pressure and accumulation. That chart you just posted shows a cmf that indicates lots of buying pressure and lots of accumulation. Yet despite all the buying pressure and accumulation the price continues to drop.
>Does the company have any intention to increase the Authorized >Shares and how many shares are in the public float?
>The Board has no intention of increasing the Authorized Shares. >The number of shares currently the in the public float is >approximately 93,791,967.
That may all very well be true. And going by their own figures there is still room to sell about another 100,000 shares into the public float before they reach the number they have no intention of increasing. Read it closely, he doesn't say no intention of increasing the public float, he says, "no intention of increasing the Authorized Shares."
The words where chosen carefully, they explained the delay between the PR and getting the QA onto the website as due to the time it took for all Board members to proof read and agree to the responses.
Nope, I'm planning on the wait and see approach. Buy Monday at .0095 and I think you'll be kicking yourself Wednesday when its .0070. My opinion is that those "Form-T" trades at the end of the day each day is that days total of how many the shares the stock was diluted by that day. The shares are sold by the tens and hundreds of thousands all day long and then its all just entered as one lump multi-million share tally at the end of the day with the "Form-T". My opinion is that until the "Form-T" sell off ceases, the stock is going to continue to go down.
Yes thats right, if your wire transfer in the funds the money gets to Scottrade immediately and so you can buy penny stocks immediately. What has the 3 day waiting period for penny stocks is if you use their "Money Direct" service where you give Scottrade the id and password to your online banking service and somehow they are able to use those and deduct money from your bank account and put it into your Scottrade account. In that case the money doesn't actually get into Scottrade's hands right away. Its a nice service, particularly since its free, but there is that 3 day waiting period if you want to buy penny stocks.
Yeah, kind of amazing isn't it how at the rate this things being bought up you'd think there'd be next to no shares left and any still for sale ought to cost a fortune. Yet there seems to be a never ending supply of shares available at ever cheaper and cheaper prices.
The transfer doesn't happen immediately. Scottrade essentially loans you the money you transfer in for the day or two it takes for the money to actually transfer from your bank account to your Scottrade account. Can you really blame them for not wanting to loan you money to buy a bunch of stock that's down 70% or so in about a weeks time and is valued at less than a penny a share?
Actually, its available immediately to purchase stock that is over $4.00 per share. You have to wait until the third business day to use money you've transferred in to purchase stock under $4.00.
""We know the professional sales staff at Garden Beverage will do a great job bringing Atomic Dogg and Hydro Power to retailers and club stores in the state."
It sounds to me like they don't have any retailers lined up to actually sell the stuff to consumers yet. It sounds like they are going to let Garden Beverages attempt to sell the stuff to retailers.
IMO the bottom isn't going to appear until those huge, just after market close trades, disappear.
I'll repost your definition because by your own definition there has been dilution:
A ubiquitous term that refers to a decrease in an investor’s ownership level or a company’s market value, book value, or earnings per share. Ownership levels are diluted when additional shares are sold and existing shareholders don’t buy the shares. An increase in the shares outstanding also dilutes a company’s book value and earnings per share. Often, merger transactions are said to be dilutive to current shareholders.
You're statement that "there has been no decrease in the ownership level of any investor of this stock" is wrong, the ownership level of every investor has decreased from owning 1/161,934,000 'th of the company per share to owning 1/210,425,967 'th of the company per share.
Your statement "besides the 30000000 class a shares the total number of shares available remain 300000000", is making it obvious you're intentionally trying to mislead people. Either that or you have no understanding what-so-ever what you are talking about. They are authorized to issue the sum of the common and preferered or 330,000,000. The sum of the common and preferred which they have issued is 210,425,967.
But its so much fun to usurp your bully pulpit, and so easy as well, evidence does wonders in that regard. So, let me offer you some evidence for the wild assertions of irresponsible share dilution that have been spewed.
In the quartely report for the period ending Sep. 30, 2007 they state that the outstanding share count is 156,934,000.
http://pinksheets.com/pink/quote/quote.jsp?symbol=hfbv#getFilings (In the PDF available under the Filings tab)
In fact 156,934,000 is the number currently in the iBox.
Have a look at the very last paragraph in the Initial Company Information and Disclosure Statement which they submitted April 9, 2008. The very last paragraph chronologically catalogs alls sorts happenings with stock up through July 27, 2007 being the last entry and then concludes with the sentence "There has been no other material reclassification, merger, consolidation, or purchase or sale of significant amount of assets." So essentially, April 9, 2008 they where saying nothing has changed since July 27, 2007, means the share count is still 156,934,000 as of April 9.
Sometime between April 30, 2008 and present halloffamebeverages.com investor relations page was changed from this:
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:CCMzLksLDEsJ:www.halloffamebeverages.com/investor_relations+hall+of+fame+beverages+investor_relations&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
to this:
http://www.halloffamebeverages.com/investor_relations
Look at the date and outstanding shares count, for whatever reason sometime in the past 7 days they've decided to go from not mentioning it all on the investor_relations page to listing it as 205,425,967 as of April 15, 2008.
So, reclaim your bully pulpit if you'd like by explaining to me how they got from 156,934,000 to 205,425,967 shares outstanding without dilution.
I agree, it means $50,000 or more worth of shares that where sold have not been delivered, it pretty much says exactly that.
I do not agree, with what I take to be your position, that therefore someone had a short interest of $50,000 on April 15.
I agree it was shorted, its undeniable, its listed right there on pinksheets.com, 89,862 shares. I think its irrelevant though, to use the word I used yesterday, its peanuts. Either I'm completely misunderstanding you or you think there is some great relevance to the shorting. I'm asking you, if you think its relevant, then please state why you think its relevant.
About 40 million of those "after hours" trades? I haven't added it up but I know if its not 40 million its way up there anyway. Between those "after hours" trades, the continual 3210 listing, and the huge sell off right as all the pieces seemed to be in place for huge gains, there's a whole lot of fishiness here. IMO of course.
I wonder if 2 or even all 3 of those are related. I noticed today that the after hours entries where at like .0095 when the stock had traded at a penny or better practically all day. I think the past after hours ones are always a little lower like that too. I wonder if a MM has been tasked with selling off like 50,000,000, to raise money for the company, and the MM gets like a 5% commission on the sales. The MM sort of naked sells as many shares as they can for as much as they can for this client all day long, then just after market close the MM officially buys the number of shares they naked sold all day from the client but for about 5% less than they where sold for and gets to pocket that 5% difference. Just a theory.
"what are we up to about 40 mil???"
Yes, agreed, yes.
"Anyone getting a whiff of Dilution? ...
Sellers should have dried
up by now already?
Something odd?"
What is your point guy? You seem to keep dwelling on "those who shorted it", trying to imply something. Maybe I'm dense, what exactly is it that you're insinuating?
"Humm. I doubt there is a legitimate problem in obtaining HFBV that would cause a fail to deliver, but I'm sure that those who shorted it did not want to cover at a few hundred percent higher than where they had shorted it."
So here's a question Soapy can add to the list. I've been thinking about this and all you guys clammoring for super uber mega deals reminded me of this question - How, when, and where are the products produced?
I've seen speculation that HFBV has/will contract with existing bottling companies to actually produce the products. Is that the case?
Was any Atomic Dogg put in a can today? Personally, I don't think so. My inclination is that the picture we've got with the 2 large stacks of inventory, is likely the entire inventory and has been for some time. Maybe I'm wrong. Would like to know. I base that opinion not only on the picture though but also on that lawsuit where its stated, going by memory here so might be off some, that there are tens of thousands of cases of product.
If the super uber duper mega deal you guys are calling for where announced, like say 7-11, is that even possible? Does HFBV currently have anyway to produce and deliver product on that scale?
I think maybe there's been some unrealistic expectations around here. I think as soon there's convenience stores all around Chicago carrying the stuff, and vending machines in CA etc, just the stuff thats been announced thus far. When those materialize, in other words when an unassuming ihubber or two who live in Illinois upload some cell phone photos of a beverage case at a convenience store full of Atomic Dogg, when someone from CA writes in and tells us how good it tasted when they drank the Atomic Dogg they got out of the vending machine that day, thats when this things going to really launch. Not by nickles and dimes but pennies and nickles. But from where we're sitting right now every penny and a half is a 100% gain. I'd expect the penny and a half gains to start piling up rapidly once only whats been announced thus far has verifiably come to be. According to the PR the Chicago area stuff should be out end of May early June, that's not long to wait for penny and a half, in other words hundreds of percents, gains, imo.
"The worst thing this company did was stop reporting."
So in other words, prior to the big collapse, they used to report? Good sign if the answer is yes.
So, I went and had myself a look at this page: http://pinksheets.com/pink/quote/quote.jsp?symbol=hfbv#getShortInfo
If you look closely, it appears they update the short interest listing mid-month and end of month each month. So, I'd expect we'll see an April 30, 2008 listing on that list soon and so we'll have a more up to date figure. The listing for April 15 is 89,862. Wooop-dee-phreak-in-do, thats peanuts, I can't imagine that anyone has been selling the millions and millions of shares that have been sold over the past couple days in order to drive the price down to where they can buy back 89,862 shares for as cheap as they sold them. That makes no sense at all.
What would make sense to me is if some MM oversold by $50,000 which is strongly suggested by the fact that we're listed as 1032. They're going to have to produces that $50,000 worth of shares that they're thus far short in delivering and so they're trying to drive down the price in order to buy those shares they still need to deliver as cheaply as they can.
So what's the point of investing in Pinksheet stocks then? It sounds like all we're doing is buying some imaginary pieces of paper from an infinitely large pool of imaginary pieces of paper.
I can't believe its as bad as all that. I think maybe the MMs can get away with overselling for a short while, stall, move things around, etc. But before long the brokers will see to it that the MMs produce what they've sold.
As though Bevco isn't a "substantial distributor"? Bevco services over 2,000 accounts located in the 5 Boroughs in New York City, Long Island, NY, Philadelphia, PA, Montgomery County, PA and exports to the Caribbean. Sounds substantial to me. Thats how Bevco was described in the April 24, Businesswire PR.
Did anyone else notice how when essentially the same PR was put out April 28 on Datamonitor, Bevco had suddenly become much less substantial, described only as being based in Elkin, PA with no further elaboration? I wonder why they took out all the substantiating claims about Bevco when they re-released that PR on April 28.
Thanks, I did miss that $50,000 part, I think I read it as short in the delivery of 10,000 or more shares OR over $50,000 worth of shares. But thats not what it says, it clearly says 10,000 shares or more AND the value is $50,000 or more. Makes sense, I can see where the SEC wouldn't get worked up if a MM failed to deliver 10,000 shares valued at .0002 per.
But anyhow, wow, yeah thanks for pointing that out, so thats a little different, that means a MM was at least $50,000 worth short in delivering to the clearing agency. And your telling me that went into effect when the pps was .004? Sheesh, yeah that means at least 12,500,000 shares that where sold have not been delivered.
"a mere 45% loss in the last two days."
Wow, and I think that was said with a straight face. Welcome to pinkie land I guess.
I read that as supporting what pennyinvestment is saying, not proof that he's wrong. I think the confusion is that 3210 stuff doesn't have anything to do with shorting in the usual sense where you borrow shares from your broker, sell them, buy them back cheaper when the price drops, return the shares to your broker and pocket the difference.
The 3210 stuff is talking about when a MM sells shares to us, I guess technically to our brokers, and then fails to deliver the shares we've purchased to the clearing agency. If a MM sells 2,000,000 shares today they're supposed to deliver 2,000,000 shares to the clearing agency within 3 days or whatever it is. If the MM only delivers 1,990,000 shares, they're 10,000 shares short and we get on the 3210 list. It probably means the MM sold 10,000 make believe shares. They'll stall, buy 10,000 shares and then deliver them. I'll stick a disclaimer here, I'm a newbie to all this myself but thats my take on the whole 3210 short thing.
He didn't take it to 30 cents at HANS, it was already at 30 cents when he got there, he worked there 5 years and it was still sitting at 30 cents when he left. If he repeats his performance with HFBV your $1500 invested now will still be $1500 5 years from now.