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I hope your research and premise is right. I fully support anything that holds these tyrannical officials feet to the fire. Courts are just a bad joke over the past 6 years in dispersing rulings that are underwhelming and biased at the expense of shareholders, while also denying expediency for justice sake. I believe that there have been many well stated problems with these conservatorships, brought before the legal system, only to be hacked into obscurity by some judges mental gymnastics that rules against common sense that the rest of us understand about fair play. Or litigated badly because the lawyers are "steered" too easily by biased judges.
So, I'd suggest any further litigation take into deep consideration which state it is started from and how that system progresses via it's seated judges. As we all should know, any case going through DC that can end up at Lamberths door would be a waste of legal fees.
Barron,
Biggest worry with trying to go after treasury for not getting Congressional approval for a backing is the courts would just point to the old charters and say treasury backing is stated there. The old charters have not been replaced by Congress so they are still in play. The backing by treasury has always been implicit and not explicit and is what they will shoot down any case filed against treasury with,,for sure. They will fall back on that implicit/explicit textural mental gymnastics to explain away how treasury is allowed to bypass congressional budgetary requirements, I have no doubt.
Crap politicians just love their backdoor access to controlling two private companies so they can socialize losses on the masses when these bleeding heart loans fail. It's 2006/2008 all over again, except now there's a government rogue, unconstitutional agency pulling strings and doling out investors entitled dividends and wealth.
Who will they blame when the GSE'S face a new severe downturn and be required to start barrowing taxpayer money again?
The REAL HERA law that should have had the very first amendment stating ZERO tolerance from groups of politicians trying to manipulate the running of a company in conservatorship! Only the full congress and Senate are allowed to vote and dictate any changes to the functions, runnings, or major business changes to the GSE'S business plan and model. These individual groups of Senators need to STFU and bring their grievances before the whole congress, and settle it there. They have no specified rights, constitutional or otherwise, to manipulating for socialist goals, two private corporations at the behest of an unconstitutionally appointed FHFA head. Screw'em!
Lol, ha, ha , ha lmao...AND Jps don't? Boy, when someone who has relevancy due to many years experience pipes in, it scares the bejesus out of JPS holders to be called out on their own illogical "desired outcome".
Please don't go after us common holders with pitchforks when you're sitting in release, at a price way lower than par, being told you will be waiting many more years for a dividend.....while common share price accelerates AND we get our vote back. Boy that's really got to scare many.
End of Jauary was official hours ago. Anyone "sad or mad at me" for pumping JPS nonstop and saying things will happen? Any seeking Alpa readers, seeking Revenge now?
T-minus 48 hours until end of month dillution solution, cram down plan, restructure, bankruptcy, reorganization, administrative bankruptcy, administrative action, conversion, court conversion, contract claim, fulcrum security nirvana. Did I forget anything?
And who is this guy? Last I knew and heard he has nothing to do with conservatorship anymore AND was replaced by someone who sponsors giving away shareholder wealth.
No longer on the government payroll means no longer relevant to what CAN be done.
Lol, lol you actually believe what that clown said! Please inform all of us where the case is located for the bankruptcy of the GSE's??? The judge in charge? The lawyers involved and also the creditors standing inline for their piece of the pie? You can't, and will never be able too. Why? To big to fail, SIFI, TINA, many other terms used to describe the GSE'S, so please stop, ooooh but it's like a bankruptcy bull.
Definition of how a bankruptcy occurs, in case you misunderstand:
A bankrupt company, the "debtor," might use Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code to "reorganize" its business and try to become profitable again. Management continues to run the day-to-day business operations but all significant business decisions must be approved by a bankruptcy court.Feb 3, 2009
AGAIN: APPROVED BY A BANKRUPTCY COURT.
Chapter 11 definition:
A case filed under chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code is frequently referred to as a "reorganization" bankruptcy. Usually, the debtor remains “in possession,” has the powers and duties of a trustee, may continue to operate its business, and may, with court approval, borrow new money.
Self explanatory, DEBTOR stays in charge with only court/judge approval. Last I looked, FHFA did not stand for court and is in charge, we have zero say.
That last part in both is especially important and should be understood by anyone claiming to have legal knowledge, unless you're a charlatan. Both refer to COURTS having last say. We never went through probate and were never assigned a judge or court, so your claims are just plain wrong, wrong...and did I say wrong?
Huge differences between this conservatorship and bankruptcy, Calabria knew this, but was good at muddying the waters for the lemmings. Anyone believing what these politicians say is being led by the nose. Mnuchin said they'd get us out....what happened? Watt said numerous things that never transpired also. So the lesson here is, just because you can quote a lying POS politicians, does not make what that liar said, so.
No, simple to understand. Government has 80% and the rest of us have 20%. Why would they shoot themselves in the foot not to maximize the 20% ? There has never been a compay in a conservatorship like this, NOT A BANKRUPTCY. The government would be slammed with numerous law suits if they tried to maximize their 80% while trying to destroy the little guys. Media would get interested and so would Congress. We come out of this when a minimum acceptable capital level is attained, which could very possibly require government to stay in its majority stake holder position (if not by consent decree). Then, and only then will government decide on what to do with seniors and warrants. They will not give up everything, more likely they will keep a majority stake at first and sell off to reap gains slowly as capital improves and share price improves. But! there will still be a dividend paid on the seniors while this is ongoing, but not on the jps because they are subordinate. The jps and commons will not see dividends until government is ready to sell most if not all of what it holds. Watch for new amendments regarding the spsa and warrants. There's a thousand ways of fu_kery with amendments for them to manipulate this for their benefit. Thinking otherwise is at your own peril. So far they've proven they can amend us to death if they want, with those added already. As long as courts keep letting rogue agencies create law, you and I have no channel or course of redress, sadly. Banana Republic
We understand your end of month prediction is only about getting the jps price high enough to cover rent, or beach party money, or whatever that it is you need...masks? There's very little court cases procedure to hype on now, so more time to go splunking on message boards because the jps are way under water just like commons - understood.
All Congress has to do is throw a bill out there that deals with releasing the GSE's, and boom, that kills any admin action. They can keep the said bill in Congress forever, for debate, but once that bill ( future law ) gets created, No one in the admin can do squat.
Why do you think no other admin did an admin release?
If you've been here long enough, you'd know Epstein was involved in a few of the law suits, not directly, but as a consultant. I think many who used to speak out on this for fair resolution got silenced (threatened) along the way over the years by the deep swamp. Ralph Nader used to be very outspoken, Epstein used to do numerous articles, Maria B. used to cover the GSE story and cases with interviews, etc. Numerous individuals all the sudden became quiet over a period of time before Trump was elected.
I think some, or even the majority of the various case lawyers can be bought off. Assume everyone has a price. So when you are talking 100's of billions at stake and governments priceless reputation, AND also a treasury that is involved that can print money at will, the recipe is there to dirty up the lawyers involved. Sad, very sad, but I have no doubt it's been going on. If you're a lawyer on one of these cases that is on going the last 5, 7, 12 years and have chalked up zero for your clients, you start losing billing credibility for poor work and look for other ways to leverage your position. JMHO
The reality is upon any type of release (even consent decree) commons are the play that 99% of retail investors will flock immediately, even though no dividends. Prefs know this and are beating a drum to try and scare the commons investors who realize this simplistic logic. Prefs will also build in price eventually, but that price will be capped because the majority who buy prefs do so for dividends. At release, neither commons or prefs will get dividends for quite a long while, I think, therefore the release price appreciation will be on commons side, until that dividend is reinstated. If commons appreciation grows, so does capital, if capital grows, less need for any raise and possibly some of the jps classes (maybe high coupon one's get bought, closed out?). The folks advocating an IPO or any type of capital raise right out of the gate are not factoring in that both FHFA and treasury are not going to release without feeling adequately about the capital, so any additional capital, as said many times before, will be the reponsibilty of the companies, and absolutely NO, the courts will not force any share conversions or exchanges or otherwise, that would be suicidal for the courts to attempt something far outside of their realm. The courts will only look at back dividends in my opinion, and jps are not entitled to any by their contract/prospectus (contract claims are now even in question). They are also non exchangeable for other shares, so how would courts try to force that seeing as government controls 80% of everything? Jps claim a vote can be taken....well good luck with that gigantic 20% voting super majority.
Be patient commons. Jps need to be even more patient. Best of luck to us all.
Sooo, they're going to make massive amounts and pay off jps by putting the companies, home buyers and taxpayers at greater risk? Yeah, lets go with that. Lol. No, and just, no.
You miss the objective here. Release as strong companies that need to stay strong after release. Your dream of government robbing for tons more won't materialize as part of a release. However it will not be beneath these a-holes involved to put the crews to ALL shareholders to affect a release. If they want to keep robbing, as some have said, they can just keep the current status quo. If they truly want to release as self sufficient independently owned & publicly owned companies, then they must do what's right, or screw the whole housing market and throw it into turmoil once again, at some point.
Wow! That would be great IF conservatorship was spelt r e s t r u c t u r e.
Also keep in mind, many like myself have been in this Conservatorship for 14+ years, so many here are just as much a pro as yourself. Now, if ya wanna really talk bankruptcy/restructure then I assume this is not the place, sorry. Every quarter capital is added, so what will the story be at the end of 2024 when we are at 150 billion? 160 billion? More? Still restructuring? Lol don't think so.
The companies operate much differently than they used to and will keep changing the way they operate due to HERA, so it looks like restructure every 4 years a new admin gets elected, or whenever the wind blows a new FHFA head in the door. The restructure of operations here is a joke mostly, but I wouldn't say the same about billions going towards recapitalization.
Also....no one has explained how capital structure matters IN CONSERVATORSHIP. Here's a giant hint, it doesn't. Will it after release? Maybe, but by then commons will be at $10+ just based on release.
You're still not understanding it's the courts job to rule on law, not to run a massive company via a conversion ask (risk) in a law suit. You don't understand they will never put the government, treasury and FHFA in a position of converting prefs to commons since there is absolutely nothing in the law that says that has to happen and the massive problems it creates. Courts are justifying FHFA and treasury's running of the conservatorship by ruling on law (albeit very stretched biased rulings), but if any settlement comes about, it will be one that affects the companies positive outcome for all, not just jps, not just commons. There is 5 billion for any law suit the courts can not bury, that's it. Believe otherwise at your own risk.
If they (FHFA, treasury, courts) were going to destroy the GSE'S for one share class, it would have been done long ago and not 14+ years down the road with 90+ billion of capital already built. We release no richer, but obviously all poorer, then as time passes, and release happens, the market will determine each investors value creation. THAT is not hard to understand, now is it? Happens every day.
None of the government branches involved are going to let any share class tear down what they see as their progress in running the GSE's. Only a morally determined congress and president will get us to people doing the right thing for release.
There's no way any court is going to provide pref plantiffs with a conversion! No way in hell. They barely understand HERA and have no idea how the GSE'S are being run currently. It's a wet dream to think one of the pref suits will provide anything like that. Remember, there is 5 billion set aside for suits. That amount makes no one rich and does not provide for anything near par or 10's of billions of commons for pref holders.
These guys saying suits will provide for a conversion are delusional.
This is the thing that really bothers me! How did Dimarco sign an amendment, how did Mnuchin and Calabria sign letters and affect amendments and how the hell did Obama admin get the NWS as part of HERA. aka the law? All this added bullshit was under various non law making people, otherwise none of that was part of the original law and thereby not passed by Congress, so how the heck is it law and how can the courts defend it? All those amendments/letters were not instituted by those elected to pass laws (Congress and Senate), and as far as I am aware, were never sent back through both houses to be voted on. So how does the judicial reconcile these added after the fact amendments and such, as law?
Another thing we should do right now as a group is demand all the Congress and Senate put all crypto into conservatorship using HERA/FHFA. Also any bank deeply exposed to crypto whose capital requirement that is adversely affected by crypto.
The courts and various administrations keep making things up as they go, but neither is in full cooperation with the other due to political reasons, leaving us in a continual state of undetermined hell.
Yahoo...sad article. Even specifies 100's of billions TAKEN and SCOTUS denying the takings. I hope many CEO's foreign and domestic read this. They better plan poison pills against government take overs.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-supreme-court-rejects-investor-144204000.html
Bradford won't tell you the thing that changed is there is a new majority taking over Congress, and for the same reason Mnuchin and Trump would not take on the last Democrat Congress, Biden and Yellen will not take on this Republican congress that is beyond pissed.
Organic recap goes on until 2024 and restructure was done years ago, so prefs in the same boat as commons...they are not special! Government holds the cards until a eunuch court system decides to grow a pair.
Not to mention, how do they propose to attract any new investor when they don't have money for a dividend, yet they want new money for capital? They are in a catch 22 of their own making.
Huge problem with all that, that no one is taking into consideration. There is now oversight in Congress as of tomorrow! Biden can "try" to do a release and steal more shareholder money, but you can bet this new congress wiil not stand still on any plans him or his administration have for the GSE'S.
I only see a grand bargain happening prior to 2024, or else 2024 puts us in a whole new ball park of circumstances. Folks need to not only keep in mind the judicial cases but also the changing political factors, of which, we have many with a newly seated congress soon, who is very pissed at the whole past 24 month Biden mess.
Look too congress as being a stop to any more Biden ineptitude and their focus on trying to fix the things that are currently in a SNAFU state.
Just my honest opinion! But the new congress is a fact and are putting all over the news that OVERSIGHT will be back in DC, no more avoiding or working around the constitution and laws.
The oppression of the shareholders, the perverting of judgment and justice is wrong.
Merry Christmas, happy holidays to everyone keeping up the good fight. Let's hope the new year brings us a judicial with a conscience and a moral compass that works.
Is anyone watching these Twitter files unfold? We should ask Musk to do a deep dive on our situation. If government will conspire to shut down a president and numerous others free speech, then they'd have no problem conspiring with the banks, which I'm sure a few Fed and Treasury officials have, along with a group in Congress.
You would think the courts would get out ahead of this to keep their reputations from being tarnished, but so far they've aided and abetted to the max.
It would be very interesting to see if there are internal emails at Twitter with folks at treasury or the Fed on keeping GSE's out of the news. Were people like Maria B. , his honor Richard Epstein, Ralph Nader and others who used to be vocal about this, were they or are they being shadow banned or accounts certain tweets being tagged do not escalate? It would make sense since every one of these folks seemed to drop of the map on this right about when the free speech of others were being blocked on covid, hunter, election fraud, china, etc.
We need to pay attention on what transpires with this FTX situation. I think much will and does apply to ours. The attached article is interesting in it's information on tax implications of those involved. If the government ever gets bold enough to try and steal the rest of our 20.1% common and prefs, they would be no better than FTX.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/ftx-customers-irs-ponzi-rules-loom-large
Saw that this morning! Incredible they are being coddled by government because they own and fully infiltrated government. Look for another GSE to the rescue AGAIN, to keep God knows how many from failing again.
If GSE's need 250+ billions to insure their loans, then how much does JPM, Wells Fargo, BOA, Citi group Goldman Sacs, etc. Need combined to insure ALL their loan business? Where's Yellen? Is she too busy pushing more environmental bank rules or trying to bully Russia?
You need to read this 2 part article by Don Layton, excellent read. Notice what he says about equity raises. It's going to be awhile unless government forgives some warrant percentage and senior percentage.
Everyone should read this....written not long ago. I think he pretty much pegs it. No get rich preffered or common! You stay as you are, but your ownership percentage has been dilluted by these crooks.
https://furmancenter.org/thestoop/entry/when-will-government-control-of-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae-end
https://furmancenter.org/thestoop/entry/when-will-government-control-of-fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac-end-part-2
The "get rich" feature kicks in as your share values increase once released and based on how many will buy shares back from the government. They're asking folks to jump back into a loaded gun unless the gov crooks can guarntee they wont take over again next time they are hard pressed to fund rogue government branches.
Biden can try to release with his FHFA head and treasury, but it will fail like others did, because something is needed by Congress. They had a better chance before midterms than now. I don't think Bradford understands politics or how the government branches and rogue branches relate to this SNAFU. He armchair lawyers the cases, verdicts with his articles. How many have been misdirected by this?
2024 is now on the table, IMHO. If Republican or Independent gets presidency, maybe more republican senators and congress people...we'd be able to see light at the end of the tunnel by mid or end of 2024 if a new administration.
I think when the root of the GSE theft is finally out in the open, and all those Obama classified docs see the light of day, we will find out that not only are the GSE's funding the FHFA solely, but also the CFPB. THEY WERE BOTH created exact same time with Elizabeth Warren and the group she was part of that worked on the whole misappropriation laws like HERA.
That's a very good point and also who we should bombard with Vancmike's letter. Who in the new congress on the republican side would be the most likely to be appointed to that chair that will be definitely pulled from mad Max?
American banker picks two! Tim Scott would be a fantastic one.
https://www.americanbanker.com/news/two-key-banking-policymakers-win-elections-other-races-remain-toss-ups
Excellent post! Sticky absolutely.
It's a rogue group of govenment embedded banksters, taking over a turf they were not allowed to have before, but now have usurped by the rogue FHFA, who if you dug enough, I'm sure most those FHFA employees were tied to various big banks before being made part of the rogue non government funded FHFA. Our fore fathers warned us about banks and their power.
That was a great ruling! It's too bad we can't catch a break on a judge who rules by the constitution like that. That ruling probably saved GSE money/capital in the end due to the tangled corrupt web in DC (Dirty Criminals)
People believe elections can't be rigged, but when you have vote buying, what else is it? Here we have the media black out on the GSE'S for many years now even though many on Twitter have been tagging various media people with a lot of good info. So, why is this being blacked out? This is a question I'd love to see answered.
Shareholders were never completely destroyed, so they could wipe all our equity and destroy our share price in the hopes of stealing indefinitely. Anyone saying our shares will be deleted needs to understand our shares are cojoined to the governments warrants. Same as the JPS and seniors. They did not wipe the shares of either to keep the actual mortgage debt off the governments deficit, we've existed 14 years without justice, but some court has got to see the unreasonable actions of a government far exceeding it's constitutional mandate.
Yes! The courts can not contest clause...since when do the courts allow the other branches of government to silence them.?particularly when a court is definitely needed to adjudicate whether a law concocted by Congress is within the realm of our constitutional rights and the bill of rights! The courts should have immediately thrown the whole law out due to that very clause.
Questions, if anyone can answer these, please feel free. I have but one post daily, so forgive me if I can not respond...appreciate any responses, I will read all.
First, now what happens to the class, as in class action? Do the current flyers they sent prior to the trial become null and void, and now the whole process of joining or staying out of the class starts over again? Will new flyers for the retrial go out?
Second, for those present at the trial, I am curious as to the jury make up, as in what were those women? All caucasian, half Asian, 2 were Hispanics? All over 30 years old or under, or all were 60+? Were they all dressed like house wives or were some dressed as professionals? A lot can be deduced from this information just as it was when the lawyers selected them.
Third, if indeed we can resubmit to being part of the class or not, does anyone here have a change of mind? Will you preserve your right to do a class action or sue yourself by staying out this time around? This is just curiosity on my part. Also, if Lamberth is reseated for the retrial, I don't think many have faith in his heavy hand on the scales of justice, so thinking there may be serious reconsiderations as to dropping from the class.
Fourth, would this be an opportune time to add the fannie shareholder class IF a different judge? Since much of Lamberth's denials were bull crap and many can be avoided now (hopefully, the P's lawyers are better schooled now). Was there ever proof to the statements that FNMA commons could not be added to the class because of their charter? Or was it because no one in the current class primary plantiffs owned FNMA? Different things have been stated, so I'm super curious if the FNMA commons can be added, or maybe they won't again?
Lastly, Does anyone think this is just another part of governments working with the judicial to delay as usual play for these donkeys? Is this part of their game plan? It seems as the delays pile up, that this is more and more of a conspiracy theorists dream. I'm sure I know where our friend Skeptic is on this. Lol
This is true! When you are dealing with a judicial system that is not only predjudiced, but can also change at a whim what a word means ( like before, meaning after, and vice versa - insanity), and also interpreting 2 or 3 words to mean a hell of a lot more than they do, you are very handicapped, no matter how good a lawyer you are. Now they are contending with a judge deeming what is permissible as evidence and what is not. It's beyond reason. A judge can sit and find excuses not to use any of those concealed documents or witnesses or damage models, when truth be told, they should all see the light of day.
It's no wonder the jury asked for a definition of plain and simple wording meaning. This judge has total disregard and semantic shifts constantly on words to aid one side of the argument. Just like other courts did.
Many of the dismissed cases and losses were due too not being able to get unadulterated interpretations of words and these semantic shifts, words that are understood fairly the same by you and I, but find some totally obscure alternate non-meaning by the judges, aka via bullshit reasoning. So....I think the jurors asking for definitions is great! I think they should ask for more meanings like conservatorship, temporary, rogue (as in decision making), Net Worth, investor, nationalization, just to name a few.
You would think a few of those jurors would google some information. I would go to the stock investors board on yahoo or google articles. But even then, all the articles out there are like 50-50. It comes down to if you believe the government is allowed to steal, over reach, supposedly for the greater good, which is the biggest lie of all. Even a small minority group like us is entitled to justice from a tyrannical government move like the NWS.
Thomas Jefferson:
The most sacred of the duties of a government is to do EQUAL and IMPARTIAL justice to ALL citizens.
The jury should have been supplied the meaning of conservatorship also. The generally accepted definition by businesses and individuals, not the made up rhetorical nonsense from government and the court loonbat judges that twisted it's meaning into a pretzel aka CONservatorship.
Exactly! Mistrial is something the lawyers should really be pushing for now. Get it out of the crooked Lamberth court! No punitive also WTF! Lamberth has done everything except visually back slap the government lawyers, he's given them a full reach around, which I'm sure is better. Lamberth is NOT impartial, and H. Hume should very loudly and vehemently point this out in court. List all of his favoritism rulings and instructions that are putting undo burden and biased finger on the scales of justice that is affecting thousands of shareholders.
With the country so divided pro and against government nanny state, it was not a surprise to me that there is 50-50 jury. Probably half republican and half Democrat in there, plus a few government worker tainted jurors. I hope,,pray they finds for us shareholders or stays hung.
Thank you for those jury instructions! I think it's total bullshyt Lamberth says no punitive damages, but does not explain why. That is one heavy finger on the scales of real justice. If the government screwed the pooch, they need to be slapped.
This is fixed by the government to follow a path to release in how THEY want to do it. Making Dimarco a fall guy and giving themselves cover to do a release via FHFA and treasury, in my opinion.
This country is no better than China, Russia or the South American corrupt countries. Look no further than an article that recently came out that gives the current government access through a backdoor to Twitter and Facebook/Meta to control information. It's a wonder anything being tweeted on this is not, or has not been wiped at Twitter.