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This company was liquid before the split, because of the available shares in the millions, and just before the split there was massive dilution where mr lenfest took the money owed to him in shares instead of payment. Take a look at that. That also decreased liquidity. The bottom line is that the split and subsequent minor purchases decreased the liquidity immensely. Your statement of a 3/1 forward split would cause share price to be 3.33 cents, yet if there are only 10,000 shares remaining at this time then 30,000 after the split, at a price of 3.33 you may have a few more taken off the table, but not nearly enough shares available for liquidity or for interest to be gained by the buying public. So if you want liquidity go ahead and do a 200 for 1 forward split, but that would reverse what the company did, and as Joe stated they did it for a reason...Now just what could that be?? Has nothing to do with shorts, all shares consolidated with no problems. MMMM now why would they do that?? I'm sure they know exactly what they are doing, and yes I believe they will keep it secret until announcement of execution.
The future will tell, but no reason to buy at this time, there is no guarantee this company is going anywhere. Privatization makes much more sense then paying a dividend. Look at how many billion dollar market cap companies still do not pay a dividend, in order to better facilitate growth, which is more important for the shareholder than a dividend on a dying company.
Let me be the first to show the errors in your statements:
Forward splits do not effect liquidity when almost 100 percent of the shares available are tightly held. The percentage of ownership remains the same, liquidity does not change.
Secondly paying a dividend, a foolish thing to do, does not help liquidity either, paying you 1 cent a share giving the average investor about 5 dollars a quarter is pointless when that money should be used to further the business. Increase balance sheet, and maybe allow them to get capital needed to increase R&D and Marketing budget which is greatly more important to a company than paying the greedy an unwise dividend.
Paying a stock dividend does only one thing, massive dilution, and that would have to be paid to all shareholders of record, including mr lenfest. Not a smart idea as each additional share reduces the value of the entire float.
Thirdly, Market cap is only the share price times the amount of outstanding shares, so if no rise in PPS there will be no rise in market cap. And until they are once again public, have a PE Ratio etc, Liquidity will remain minimal.
There is only one reason for the 200 for 1 share split, much easier to sell the company, Mr Lenfest is 82, the Lenfest group has a mandate to liquidate all holdings within 10 years of the lenfests death now concentrating on the youth of Philadelphia. See press release of March 2013. Some say he won't sell, I argue that in the near future it will be just that, so the proceeds can make a positive affect on the youth. Expect TEVE and ETCC to change hands. Both stocks are in the same boat. Would like your opinion as to why they did the split?
So now what happens if TEVE does not start paying dividends? Is that what you are relying on now? What about the shorts?? Do they not figure into your market cap. Remaining a Dark Pink Sheet stock is also very foolish. But Good luck anyway.
Have a great Wednesday.
And then what? What will happen when Alan?? Vague statements are meaningless. How many days do the shorts have? I must plan accordingly. Cake? I'll have chocolate please.
and yet insiders haven't bought shares in years, that tells the future, not the past. There is no confidence going forward.
so what your saying is that imaginary shares were also reduced by 200 to one and issued? I don't think so. THere had to be a proper accounting of all shares during the transition of the split, thus the teved symbol change for those 20 days
I already answered your questions, no dividend that would be stupid and if they do pay will be minimal, forward split means nothing if all shares are being held by investors, if there are shorts, which there isn't no covering will take place, but a FTD and lawsuit will be your only recourse. Overstock is liquid and cannot be compared to TEVE.
That ended with the reverse split, and there has never been more shares voted than those outstanding in the history of Telvue. The consolidation of shares showed no naked shorts, all investors got their shares as they should. So your argument is invalid. The time of TEVED, proved that no shorts existed at the time of the 1 for 200 split. From that point on only 3000+ a few more have been traded. No once again your conspiracy theory does not hold water.
The point is that even if 100 percent of shares sold since the reverse split were shorted, that does not benefit you or anyone else, nor will it create a great short covering as you profess, and continually try to convince others of that theory. We all know not many if any were shorted. Bottom line is the company is solely responsible for their success or failure, not any long, nor any short. Only ones that can destroy a company is from within. People invest to make money, there is no opportunity here at this time. Don't sell now, but no reason to buy, not until, yes I'll say it again, the stock becomes liquid, trading becomes daily, and financials are released to the public, and someone on the inside begins to buy. Until then, this board or the posters are no reason to buy. Desperation fuels desperation without any wisdom at all.
of the 3000 traded in the last year and a few more since the split, how many are shorts??
Let me help you out a bit, since January of 2013 825 shares have sold. This is as per the website 4kids9pets posted earlier with the June amount of 500. Its the OTCBB website, And 2218 from July to Dec 2012 if my math is correct. Not many shares traded hands, and what does that mean for the investor hoping for a massive dividend/short conspiracy, in one year a total of 3043 shares traded hands. Sorry, again, your theory does not come close to holding any water.
Joe how do you propose that the pps raises one cent once all shares are sold?? What award are you talking about, how old is the award, who was it given by? What was it given for? Who's won that award since? What's happened since??
No not at all as there are no shorted shares, look at total traded shares since the reverse split. At that time and the time of the last shareholder vote, there was no, Zero, Zilch problem with the amount of shares reduced by 200 or by the amount of votes cast. Since then look at how many shares were traded, if 100 percent of the shares traded since the two events were shorted (which we know they were not), that still does not make for much of a squeeze now does it. I ask again, how many since the reverse split?? In your scenario the investor who supposedly has shares still loses out until a lawsuit is decided. And that will take years. Not a good investment at all, but my scenario based on facts above is much more plausible.
So step one, since the reverse merger and shareholders vote, how many shares were sold?? How many went into legitimate hands?? What's left?? No, no short conspiracy at all. All shares had to be accounted for during the TEVED period. The short argument does not hold water, regardless of how many times it is claimed.
good for them Joe, in how many years will that take??
When Telvue becomes more of a household name, EPS, profitability and market capitalization will be what matters and will establish any stock price provided the share structure changes. As of now, 616000 in the float, even if it goes back to 100 per share, that's a market cap of 61,600,000 dollars. That's just so some of you break even. Not a chance for years to come will this company ever have that marketization and as long as it remains the lowest tiered pink sheet, no chance of any institutional investors coming in, of course liquidity matters. You can not argue abstract points without dealing with the facts of the structure of the stock.
Not one sentence says anything about the investor making money, so why invest in the first place if the stock price never goes anywhere.
Howis the share price appreciating if there is no market? Ford is Liquid and trades often. TEVE is not and does not you cannot compare.
The dollar amount is not very much, not to justify the comments from some of becoming millionaires overnight. and a 10 percent dividend would be stupid.
TEVE still needs to pay lenfest the interest on loan do they not? so any dividend would be paid to him after interest on loan is paid. Leaving little for the individual investor.
No windfall here, not for many years to come and some will not be around when or if it ever does. I still expect privatization as for the company this is the best scenario, only reason to stay public is to continue to have the ability to raise additional funds via share offerings if capital is not available. To stay public does not make any sense, would be better for board of directors to go private and keep all funds, expanding business and making themselves wealthy but since the insiders are not buying their own stock, that speaks louder than anything else.
I think you should buy 99 of them.
Your argument sounds good on the surface, but TASR was a liquid stock, with how many shares outstanding?? Traded how often?? Is on NASDAQ and now a 9 dollar per share stock. Was that not a pump and dump at one point?? Forward splits mean nothing as far as the ownership and liquidity issue is concerned. How do you see the TEVE share price increase for the common investor to make money. Remember the total shares outstanding is 616000. Any dividend by law will be required to be divided amongst all those shares, so for every 600,000 dollars of pure profit after all expenses and R&D, hiring, if the board was stupid enough to pay out everything to shareholders, you will get 1 dollar per share which would be a 10 percent dividend. First that's not very much, secondly that would be stupid for the company to pay out that much instead of expanding. You are looking at years and years away. So someone has 5000 shares a dividend of 1 dollar is only 5g a year. Had this person invested the money in the normal stock market which is up 25 percent in the last 52 weeks, you would be much better off. There is no positive for TEVE at this moment for the individual investor until the share structure is changed or MR Lenfest liquidates or sells. There are many companies that pay a great dividend, that also increase in share price making TEVE a lottery gamble at best. Enjoy your weekend!!!
How many years was microsoft profitable before they started paying those dividends?? And before the dividends were paid what did they do with the money??
For this company dividends would be better paid to increase their marketing, R&D, and rehiring the expertise they had to let go. Paying out dividends at any point in the near future would be a mistake, but you knew this already.
First Ford is liquid and trades every day. Second, how do you propose that the pps will rise in the current share structure and illiquid environment. And once again, lets say they are shorted shares if none are available to cover, will only result in a lawsuit, and if the shares are naked, the shares you buy are fraudulent and you have no recourse other than a lawsuit yourself to get back your initial investment, not anything else. So show us in detail how you propose the PPS to rise? And how a short squeeze could possibly take place if there are no shares available???
No W.I. Doesn't matter what it says, for the stock price to increase you need liquidity in the market, the problem is people here have been soley relying on either a short conspiracy or dividend payments for their windfall. I've already explained why even a short conspiracy does nothing for the individual. No one here has a legitimate reason for and how the PPS will rise. I'm not advocating selling if you already own shares, that would be admitting a huge loss for most. But there is no reason to buy anymore the upside potential in the current share structure is not conducive to profitability for the individual investor. Don't believe me?? Research liquid vs illiquid stocks and what it means to the investor.
What does it matter the price presplit?? Taking its toll on whom? You continue to rely on the short theory which I have shown time and time again, will not matter to the individual investor, you can't cover a stock that's illiquid and you'd be a fool to short one as well. We will wait, as you say, for the very near future, a comment that's been made for years. Good luck though, explaining to those that have lost their shorts because of rantings of an ill conceived idea will be what's interesting to see.
No one said it is for sale, but it may be your only hope to recover your funds, more than likely it will go private.
And that's great for the company but how does that effect the stock price if no one is selling? and no one can buy??
No hope, we finally almost agree, there is a small bit of hope, a sale to another company so your shares may get bought at a premium to current price, but nothing near what it once was, and you failed to address the points I made in your own special way. Now you are relying on dividends?? 616 thousand shares outstanding, divided by what net profit? not much left for you now is there.
The stock you mention is liquid is it not?? Shorts may have manipulated pps but not the company correct?? And therefore, the only reason the pps has increased in price is liquidity and company financials correct?? So much for your argument with TEVE, there is no comparison.
Why do people keep saying that shorts bankrupt companies, if the company has strong financials they will not go bankrupt, granted the stock price may be manipulated but a solid company remains solid. No one, not one short has bankrupted a company. The company does that itself with poor execution of business plan or unwise financial decisions.
If there were shorts, that would mean the shares you are buying are worthless, and if none are available, there will be no covering, but the SEC will fine the violators and ban them from future trading, that does nothing for your shares, they will be worth nothing unless you sue to get your funds back minus legal fees. Therefore wishing on a short conspiracy means nothing, they won't have to cover, your shares will not skyrocket but the SEC will sue a fine paid and you the investor will be screwed, now tell me how they cover when there is nothing for sale. They can't, you are wasting money and effort here if you feel there are shorts, lucky for you the short conspiracy is a myth.
If all the shares are tightly held, the forward split means nothing, liquidity remains zero, the percent of ownership remains the same; if dividends are paid in shares, same thing the pps remains the same, if dividends are paid in cash (no way dividends will be paid at all), but for the sake of argument, your pps value will not increase one cent..... do your research on the success of illiquid stocks, there aren't any.
Alan, how do you foresee making any money on a stock that isn't bought or sold? As there are no shorts, that issue is mute, no short listings, no FTD's......where is the windfall you and Joe profess? Just how long is the Home Stretch? Problem with talking in riddles, the answer can always be manipulated to suffice the desired results.
Time to dispute your comments again:
First Telvue does not have the best, I've proven that before, they are not even close, would like recent proof to support your claims. Secondly liquidity does matter, lets say all shares are gone by you and a few others, there is no selling there is no buying, if that were the case the only way for you to make a dime is for the company to sell to another company which will then put a current market price on each share. If there are no shares to trade the shareprice stays the same forever. Buy and hold and make no money, not a very smart investment choice. Only chance of liquidity is to conduct another share offering, and we all know what that does. TEVE is stagnant regardless of the future if they remain illiquid. That's a financial fact, don't take my word for it, look it up.
Comparing to Telvue to microsoft is pointless, but you can compare to the multitude of companies in the same fields of Cloud storage and video broadcasting.
Your figures are all wrong, $10,000 bought in 1980 NOT, the IPO for MICROSOFT, MSFT, was in 1986 and Someone who invested $10,000 in the company's IPO would own a stake worth roughly close to $3,000,000 today. There have been Five 2 for 1 splits and two 3 for 2. And why is this>> because the stock was always liquid, buying and selling continued company advanced, stock price followed only because of LIQUIDITY.
Tell us how does buy and hold make sense when the stock is illiquid.
Correction the float remains over 600,000. If they do not increase share structure it is another supporting fact that they will be going private or selling. Remaining illiquid does no one any good.
He who speaks the most violates the NDA!! You could infer several things from his statements
1) Telvue is up for sale, Its not the shorts wanting your shares but:
The penny players own the stock that Gerry's friends from the high rollers club will be coming by to get.
As to the first five months of this year it is all I can do to keep quiet but one thing I think I can say is I'm as happy as a four eyed cat in a fish market.
So when someone tells you expenses outweigh revenue then where do you think that came from ? Incidentally saying expenses outweighs revenue would be untrue.
Or look at it this way, those who warn and have common sense haven't lost their money, those very defensive and claim conspiracy have lost their shorts. Go TEVE, its the shorts fault.
No why wait? If you do you'll miss the boat, forget about the company going dark, that's a good thing so no one knows our little secret, buy the remaining shares before anyone else gets wind of the financials. BUY BUY BUY!!! If you don't buy buy buy, you'll regret it. Its the shorts fault it is the price it is, better to own a manipulated stock as is claimed so the shorts will pay in the end. BUY BUY BUY.
If things are so great why would the price go down? If that's the case BUY BUY BUY, get all you can before the shares runout, buy buy buy. Go for it, company full of transparency, buy buy buy. Make your fortune before it's too late!!!
So telvue is only for poor people? Or maybe those that can't understand the true financial state of the company and can only rely on the short conspiracy in the hopes of making it one day. Are you saying that the wealthy other than the owner has no interest in telvue?? Bottom line is if this stock was going higher because of the recent financials, then that firestorm of buying would have already commenced. Statements here do not make any sense, first finances are good, Longs are smiling, finally profitable, yet no buy's, still relying on the short squeeze, may not be this week. We've been hearing wait on the next quarter for the year plus I've been following. No there is no good news, if there was the message would have gotten out, no reason for a nondisclosure aggreement, expect a sale in the near future, as expenses do continue to outweigh revenue.
So no 12 - 15 million last year? And only revenue, no profit? still wishing, sad day!!
Its a mystery, time to get a loan to buy more shares, afterall "THEY" say its going up thousands of percent, profits galore, mmmmmm no one buying. Doesn't make sense now does it. ITS THE SHORTS FAULT.