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spook...It wasn't the question, per se, I think people thought you were being disingenuous.
Those people that responded know that you were involved in the this very discussion over on RB about joye1's post. Remember, your friend froggie posted it there. So to come over to iHub and profess not to have seen it is...well...not entirely accurate. Follow this thread back a couple and it seems to suggest that you were indeed aware of joye's post:
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=DNAP&read=271545
Not so?
Later,
W2P
A little clarity:
From the DNAPrint 10K, April 2003:
DNAPrint genomics is a consumer oriented genomics company, focused on developing products that enable consumers to utilize the information inherent in their genomes (DNA sequence). Our management team consists of Hector Gomez, MD, Chairman of the Board, Richard Gabriel, CEO/President, Tony Frudakis, Ph.D., CSO, K. Suresh Chandra, Ph.D., Director of Statistical Genomics, and K. Punniswamy, Ph.D., President of Statistical Genomics. The Company believes that these executives have the necessary expertise to make us a leader in the development of genetic tests and products for the consumer genomics marketplace.
Dr's Chandra and Punniswamy are noteworthy in this paragraph because their titles, listed as "Director of Statistical Genomics" and "President of Statistical Genomics", respectively, appear to be promotions. From the DNAPrint website:
Suresh Chandra K., Ph.D.
Director of Biostatistics
Ponnuswamy Kolathupalayam Nachimuthu, Ph.D.
Vice President of Biostatistics
Secondly, there is a name that is notable by it's absence from the above list, Dr. Venketaswarlu Kondragunta. Again from the website:
Venkateswarlu Kondragunta, Ph.D.
Vice President
Not only was Kondragunta the company Vice President, and frequent company spokesman, but he was a co-founder of DNAPrint. Having stayed with the company through thick and thin, it hardly seems likely that he would leave just as the company's products are coming to maturity.
So, a couple of questions of my own for the inquisitors. Why would DNAPrint go to the trouble of changing Dr's Chandra and Ponnuswamy's titles if these scientists were no longer going to be with the company? And before you say that Gabriel kicked them out once he became CEO, Gabriel's agreement to serve as CEO is part of the same 10K where the new titles are mentioned. To me, it is not plausible to assume that Chandra and Ponnuswamy are not still with DNAPrint.
The second question is just where is Dr. Kondragunta and what is he up to? I would say that the employee discussion and some clues as to future business arrangements will become clear when he resurfaces.
Lastly, has anyone else noticed that DNA Phenomics seems to have named every officer besides a President and CEO? Perhaps that is not a coincidence. Of course, much of this is my speculation and should be taken as such. Spook, don't take this as a recommendation to buy, sell, or trash this stock.
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W2P
Team...I hate to burst your bubble, but I read that as follows. It is three separate headlines strung together:
1) Motif Acquires TimeLogic 2) NCGR Enters R&D Collaboration with IBM 3) DNAPrint to Serve as...
I believe the DNAPrint headline is the recent PR announcing that:
DNAPrint Joins National Institutes of Justice Funded Project
Monday August 25, 11:25 am ET
SARASOTA, Fla., Aug. 25 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- DNAPrint Genomics, Inc. (OTC Bulletin Board: DNAP - News; DNAPrint or the "Company") announced today that it will serve as a subcontractor for a new National Institutes of Justice (the "NIJ") research grant.
I'm pretty certain that I read a headline concerning the NIJ subcontract from another news source that started just the way the text in your post indicates.
I wish you were correct, but I believe this is a proper interpretation of what you posted.
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W2P
2yrs2retire...It's in one of the quarterly filings, and the name was DNAPrint Pharmaceuticals. I know it was before September 2002, so must be the 1st or 2nd quarter report for 2002. If you start to look, check the quarterly and any attached agreements. You should find something there. Have fun.
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W2P
Miss Scarlet...Here's some more information:
http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?a1=DETFIL&n1=V11375&n2=NAMFWD&n3=0000&n4=N&...
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W2P
alo_h...
Alan, please continue to check our website as we are currently working on updating the information. Over the next couple of weeks you should see a more user friendly website along with our most up to date information.
Has the sounds of a whole "new", more user friendly, website. Is that the impression you're getting here, or am I reading more into this than it seems?
Also, how recent is this message? From today? Just trying to get a feel for when the "next couple of weeks" started.
Later,
W2P
mjam...And I meant to add, especially in light of things like new MM's that seem to be quietly positioning themselves to take part in trading this security, like these guys that recently came on board:
EFGI Bid 0.001 Bid Size 5000 Ask 5.01 Ask Size 500
EFGI EMPIRE FINANCIAL GROUP, INC.
ORLANDO, FL 407-774-1334
LONGWOOD FL 800-579-8100
Interesting..........
Later,
W2P
mjam...I have been doing some thinkging regarding the recent events and how they tie together. It's late, and I need some time to put together a coherent post. I won't put it up tonight, but will try to get something up in the morning.
Very interesting subject, though, that I hope will generate some thought provoking discussion, especially from folks like chig that have experience wearing the CEO's hat, and ming who has experience in technology assessment and investment analysis.
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W2P
Miss Scarlet...Excellent post. Just to reiterate something from page 76 of the last NIJ link:
DNA Five-Year Research and Development Program.
The goal of this NIJ program is the development of cutting edge molecular biology methods and tools to achieve highly discriminating, reliable, economic, and rapid DNA testing approaches appropriate for forensic identity testing. Major objectives for the period from 1999 to 2003 include reducing DNA testing costs by more than 98 percent, from $700 per test to less than $10 per test; reducing analysis time from hours to minutes; developing inexpensive, portable, disposable DNA test kits for field use; increasing the reliability and legal credibility of DNA testing[b/] through the development of a dual testing approach using two different methodologies (microchip devices and mass spectrometry); developing standard materials for population databases; and developing markers or techniques to be used in the unique identification of individuals.
Boy there's alot in that one paragraph, but I see why Dr. Frudakis says there's "no money" in forensic testing. At least there won't be after they reduce testing costs by 98%! The other intriguing objective is the last one, "developing markers or techniques to be used in the unique identification of individuals" - can you say "Genomatch"? Perhaps this is the focus of the recent subcontract. That would certainly represent an endeavor that is closely related to the company's DNAWitness product.
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W2P
Ah, mingwan0...
"DNA Phenomics employs top scientists and business leaders from around the globe."
Do you suppose they are ALL "full time" employees? LOL
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W2P
Gcbr...Thank you. I was about to lose it. I expect that sort of reaction on RB, but not here. bluedodge, would it make you feel any better knowing that Gomez has been "part time" since the summer of 2001, and Gabriel since AT LEAST January 2002? During that period, they have both held other positions, and continue to do so. Grow up, or sell out. Those are your really your only options.
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W2P
Chris...I see you got someone to take that video of your golf swing. LOL
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W2P
wantahummer2...What news are you referring to? The NIJ News?
TIA,
W2P
bign...I'm bullish on that! lol eom
Chris...DNAP is NOT interested in signing large service provider contracts. They neither have the desire nor capability of competing in this market right now.
This is right up Orchid's alley, and if Orchid is one of the forensic partners Tony mentioned in the TWST article, this could be a very good sign for DNAP.
Later,
W2P
mingwan0...Sadly, I agree.
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W2P
Chris...no..eom
mahastock1...I hope they would take his advice as well, however, I would point out that if they do, his advice would have to be considered a significant adverse comment to the Race and Ethnicity rule as proposed. That would have the effect of taking the rule out of the fast track process and back to the normal regulatory timetable.
IMO, that would be a good thing in that it would stop the FDA from implementing a policy that favors subjective data over objective science. As Dr. Frudakis points out, it is now possible to determine quite accurately the precise BGA for clinical trial patients. The FDA should, as a matter of practice, seek not only an improvement in data collection, but should be looking to use the most objective methodology available for collecting that data. The primary goal in any scientific experiment is to limit uncertainty to the maximum extent practicable. A scientist cannot achieve consistent, reliable, repeatable results if there is uncontrolled variation in the base data.
If the FDA is truly interested in advancing their ability to study ethnicity as a factor in a patient's response to a given pharmaceutical, it would be foolish to ignore what is now possible using DNAPrint's BGA testing.
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W2P
chris...Looks like you learned a new trick! lol
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W2P
stakddek...doubloon is an ardent supporter of GMED, and greatly resents the intrusions of TonyToX on that board. He also knows that TonyToX is a DNAP investor, and I suspect that was just his way of trying to get even.
As for anyone owning 60% of the float, the notion is preposterous.
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W2P
Roger...Thanks..eom
angelfund888...I wasn't refering to the company. His post concerned FY 2004 Federal Funding for forensic DNA research. I was merely pointing out that Federal FY2004 begins on 10/1/2003.
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W2P
GoldEagle...FY 2004 starts 10/1/2003. I guess we'll see soon enough...
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W2P
Winbig911...This one's a little old. The Media Release date at the end of the article: 21 August 2001.
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W2P
minwan0...The discussion on the DNA-Defense ListServ link did not appear promising. Perhaps when they contacted the good Dr. F and better understood the science they had a change of heart. lol
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W2P
CmonDNAP...This post addressed these issues:
http://investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=1355968
Later,
W2P
hailstorm...Thanks, think I'll set up a few of those. lol
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W2P
OT: I realize this has nothing to do with DNAPrint, but read it anyway. It's about a new supercomputer on a chip that IBM is developing. Honestly, from the description of it's fundamental innovation I would swear they have modeled this after the method of organization of human DNA:
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/030827/056910.html
Press Release Source: IBM
IBM Research to Collaborate With The University of Texas at Austin on Single-Chip Embedded Supercomputer
Wednesday August 27, 2:57 pm ET
AUSTIN, TX--(MARKET WIRE)--Aug 27, 2003 -- The University of Texas at Austin and IBM Research, based on support from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), will collaborate to produce an adaptive, high-performance microprocessor that could revolutionize computing. The university team has conceived a new architecture, called TRIPS (Tera-op Reliable Intelligently-adaptive Processing System), that is designed to provide supercomputer performance on a single chip. Researchers at IBM's Austin Research Lab are working closely with The University of Texas at Austin team to develop a number of the relevant technology innovations necessary to realize such systems, and engagements are underway to ultimately commercialize the results.
The TRIPS architecture is designed to provide supercomputer performance on a single chip, ultimately scaling to deliver more than one trillion operations per second by 2010. In addition, the system will offer unprecedented flexibility to work well with many different types of software applications including desktop, signal processing, graphics, server, and scientific applications. This flexibility may allow a single TRIPS chip to serve several different processor markets, instead of current approaches that use unique and specialized processors for each market.
The fundamental innovation in the TRIPS design is its "block-oriented execution." Instead of operating on only a few computations at a time, the TRIPS processor operates on large blocks of computations mapped to an array of execution units on the chip. This approach allows many more instructions to execute in parallel, thus offering higher performance. These computation arrays include support for "polymorphism," which adapts them to match the type of software application currently running on the hardware. The IBM Research team is focused on the optimization of commercial computing applications for this novel architecture. The IBM team is also exploring new circuit and chip-design methodology innovations to enable this class of highly-configurable future chips.
The team will work for 30 months to develop a prototype microprocessor and system containing up to four processor cores, each capable of executing 16 operations per clock cycle, and a uniquely partitioned cache structure designed to offer higher performance than traditional approaches. The chip will contain over 250 million transistors, and will operate at 500 MHz. The goal is to demonstrate the feasibility of a full-scale industrial development that could offer a 10 GHz chip capable of executing over a trillion instructions per second. The joint University of Texas at Austin / IBM Research team is consulting with IBM Microelectronics on initial chip-design considerations, and it is expected that IBM Microelectronics will be the physical-design and fabrication partner for the TRIPS chip.
This research collaboration is being facilitated by an IBM Shared University Research (SUR) Award of a Linux-based IBM eServer xSeries computing cluster, which will help provide the bandwidth and computational capabilities required to accurately simulate and verify the advanced TRIPS processor design. The Linux cluster also will enable researchers to model large server workloads running on a multi-chip TRIPS system, improving the understanding of system-level design requirements of diverse supercomputing environments. IBM's SUR program awards computing equipment to colleges, universities and institutions of higher education around the world to facilitate research projects in areas of mutual interest.
Construction of the TRIPS prototype system is supported by a total of $11.1 million in funding from DARPA. The University of Texas at Austin scientists expect to have TRIPS prototype chips and systems running in their laboratory by December 2005.
About IBM Research
IBM Research is the world's largest information technology research organization, with more than 3,000 scientists and engineers at eight labs in six countries. IBM has produced more research breakthroughs than any other company in the IT industry. For more information on IBM Research, visit www.research.ibm.com.
About the Department of Computer Sciences at The University of Texas at Austin
The graduate program of the Department of Computer Sciences at The University of Texas at Austin is ranked in the top 10 nationally by U.S. News & World Report.
Contact:
Contact: My Luu
Company: IBM
Voice: 914-945-2988
Contact: Barbra Rodriguez
Company: The University of Texas at Austin
Voice: 512-232-0675
angelfund...Just sent them a "nastygram" asking them to correct it immediately. Thanks for bringing this to the attention of the board.
Later,
W2P
OT: Arch..."Corn dogs are a good thing!" LOL
May there always be wind in your sails my friend...
Later,
W2P
bag8ger...You took the words right out of my mouth! lol
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W2P
Arch...Best what, deceipt?
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mingwan0...Thank you for that information. Now I realize that as soon as I see your three posts are up, I am free to post to my hearts desire without fear of a logical response from you! lol
Thanks for your understandably "limited" contributions to the board, and congratulations on your success in making the most of those contributions.
Later,
W2P
mingwan0...Of these two, I would lean towards the second. There are others looking at alu's (Applied Biosystems), but the text of the second study would seem to support the inference made in DNAP's Journal of Forensics Science abstract:
Stock #: JFS0307
Volume: 48
Issue: 4
Year: 2003
Pages: 771-782
Author(s): Frudakis T, Kondragunta V, Thomas M, Gaskin Z, Ginjupalli S, Gunturi S, Ponnuswamy V, Natarajan S, Nachimuthu PK
Title: A classifier for the SNP-based inference of ancestry
Keywords: AHR, ancestry, AP3B1, battery, classification, CYP1A1, CYP2C8, CYP2C9, CYP2D6, CYP3A4, DCT, DNA typing, ethnicity, forensic science, genotype, MCIR, OCA2, single nucleotide polymorphism, TYRP1
Abstract: Ancestral inference from DNA could serve as an important adjunct for both standard and future human identity testing procedures. However, current STR methods for the inference of ancestral affiliation have inherent statistical and technical limitations. In an effort to identify bi-allelic markers that can be used to infer ancestral affiliation from DNA, we screened 211 SNPs in the human pigmentation and xenobiotic metabolism genes. Allele frequencies of 56 SNPs (most from pigmentation genes) were dramatically different between groups of unrelated individuals of Asian, African, and European descent, and both observed and simulated log likelihood ratios revealed that the markers were of exceptional value for ancestral inference. Log likelihood ratios of the multilocus estimates of biological ancestry (EAE/EBA) ranged from 7 to 10, which are on par with the best of the STR batteries yet described. A linear classification method was developed for incorporating these SNPs into a classifier model that was 99, 98, and 100% accurate for identifying individuals of European, African, and Asian descent, respectively. The methods and markers we describe are therefore an important first step for the development of a practical multiplex test for the inference of ancestry in a forensics setting.
Of course, there are a myriad of possibilities. It will be difficult to say with anything approaching certainty, until the company decides to make us certain...lol
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W2P
mjam...I e-mailed Lisa the other day concerning Nanogen's project. To date, no response. I'll let you know though:
----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxxxxxxx
To: formanl@ojp.usdoj.gov
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 3:52 PM
Subject: Title: Chip Based Genetic Detector for Rapid Identification of Individuals
Lisa:
This looks like a fascinating project with the capability to significantly reduce the time required to identify a suspect. Can you provide an approximate time reference as to when this project was initiated and when it is expected to complete.
Thanks In Advance,
xxxxxxxxx
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W2P
Ok, I'll take a shot at the project behind today's PR. This is from the April 10K Filing:
"At this time, management expects Retinome to contribute towards 2004 revenues. The Company has received interest from several grant funding agencies and institutions, including the National Institutes of Justice, which requested the Company resubmit a grant application that was rejected last year. This grant was to fund the validation of utility and commercial application of the Retinome classifier for the provision of forensic services.
I'll admit that I don't know how many markers they examine to infer eye color. I do know that they use 73 markers (or pretty close to that number) for Ancestry. We also know that Tony put out a call for 1000 volunteers a few weeks back to donate swabs for validation of Retinome, only to come back a short time later and tell us that he only needed 100, that he was getting 900 from another source.
Well, 1000 times 73 is 73,000 genotypes. If it takes a few more to infer eye color then 80,000 would be a good estimate. The way I read the statement in my first paragraph above is that the grant was to fund the 1) validation of utility, and 2) commercial application of...the Retinome classifier for the provision of forensic services. Alternatively, it could be read as 1) validation of utility, and 2) validation of commercial application of...either interpretation would lead to the same conclusion, a two part grant.
So if Phase I is funding for the validation of utility of the Retinome Classifier, Phase II is funding for commercial application or validation of commercial application. That would square with a statement made by Zack at the shareholder's meeting. This is not exact, but very close, that "ideally, work would be done through a contract with the NIJ. That way law enforcement would all work through NIJ who would then contract the work to DNAP." DNAP wouldn't need to contract individually with state and local law enforcement or state crime labs.
Now as to the identity of the grantee, it could very well be a municipal or state crime lab that will be granted "x" dollars to run commercial Retinome testing on it's "unknown suspect" backlog of samples. And if Phase I involves validation, it would likely be done at the cost of genotyping alone. The Phase II Commercial grant may involve the sales of Retinome testing at the full price (whatever that is).
Of course this is just my own WAG. Just thought I'd throw my two cents in the mix.
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W2P
commando...That one was a little old don't you think? Your sct1717 post was from September 2000. BTW, how did you get access to that post? I thought RB had restricted access to all posts older than January 2003. Is the complete archive accessible again?
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W2P
Gcbr...Best wishes Professor and a Happy Birthday! eom
Later,
Mike
Team...DNAP started trading on the Frankfurt, Germany exchange a month or so ago, maybe two months. Sorry, don't have the link but Roger in Switzerland would.
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W2P
chig...I'm not that familiar with the European approval process. It differs from the US but is fairly stringent as well.
IMO, time is not a critical factor, even here in the US. The company can get approval to offer the tests by demonstrating clinical efficacy (the previous studies combined with the current clinical trial) and by gaining certification to offer clinical genotyping services. The FDA will allow THEM to offer the test because they developed it and have experience performing the test and interpreting the results.
This is in contrast to them manufacturing a kit, and selling the kits to third party service providers. For that model, they would need FDA approval of the test which is a more drawn out process. The primary reason is that FDA wants to assure that someone other than the test developer can perform the test and obtain accurate and meaningful results. You can't have a test in the marketplace where results vary depending on which lab is performing the test.
From what I have read of the FDA regulations governing medical test devices, the company is following the correct strategy. Gaining experience in the market by offering the "home brew" test as a service provider WILL expedite the eventual FDA approval process. At that point they will shift gears and begin marketing the tests through third parties. In the near term, the company can build a reputation in the marketplace, can demonstrate the accuracy of its tests, and add a revenue stream. Revenue will increase substantially when marketing shifts to the FDA approved test.
Contrast this to the problems Roche is having with their cytochrome P450 chips. The FDA is in an uproar not because the tests are being offered, perse, but because of the manner in which they are being marketed. They are not following an acceptable model as described in the previous paragraphs.
Don't know if this is what you had in mind, but this is my interpretation of the process the company is following. IMO it is the correct path.
Later,
W2P