is...retired
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She is in TOTAL disbelief!!
Worked her ass off 40 years as a nurse, had little in retirement fund to show for it. I took it over (from Fidelity) last November, and now it's up over 4X. She is in fact going to be a millionaire, something she never dreamed possible. That actually makes me feel very, very good too - she deserves every penny.
Accumulation, yes. I trade for my GF, and bought her 7m shares at .022. I now have 12m at .027 - averaging up from .0175. It will be interesting to see where this goes in another month.
Not sure why anyone would be selling into this, but I just got another million....11 mil now.
Up $50K+ in premarket! Never thought I'd ever see that..
Partly right, partly wrong. No creditor would take on convertible loans without an enticement. The enticement is that they can convert debt to equity (shares) at BELOW market price. There would be no value in market price or higher - they could just buy stock instead of investing in the company. They are enticed into loaning money because they get shares at a LOWER price than the rest of us, but when they do it, the price sags, because that becomes the new stock price. As long as it continues, the stock price plummets. In this case, all the way to $.01. Now it's gone, and can't be driven lower by dilution.
Only lack of execution can now hurt ICLD, and I don't think we will see that. They want to profit from their company too.
No, dilution is when thousands to millions of shares are released to a debt holder at less than the current share price. The rest of us are then unwilling to pay more than the diluted price, so the price simply drops to the diluter's price.
Go read some of the debt SEC filings to see the number of shares and the (lower) price provided by the contract. If there are several debt holders that all have convertible debt, and they see others jumping into the conversions, they will do the same, else they miss their best price.
It is a snowball, which, for ICLD, has reached the bottom of the hill.
The A/S is the authorized shares. That does not change until a shareholder vote to change it. That has not happened.
The O/S is the outstanding shares, that is the shares sold vs the ones that remain to be sold - the difference between the A/S and the number already sold. The O/S is increasing and may hit the A/S mark soon. A bad thing if conversions are still in the pipeline.
A reverse split reduces the O/S by the ratio of the split. In a reverse split, it is only the SOLD shares that are divided by the ratio and the value multiplied by the ratio. Unsold shares are unaffected, except that when they are purchased, it will be at the new price. (4x in this case.)
In this case, since there may be more shares ABLE to be converted than the total AS of 500,000,000, the reverse split reduces the O/S by 75%. That completely removes the problem. No value change to shareholders, just a lot more headroom for new shares. THOSE are what the big hedge funds and other heavy hitters will be buying at the then current price.
This is the best thing that could happen at this time! All 'big' buys after the R/S will be at the post R/S price, and they will go fast, if I have any understanding of what's about to happen. Just as we jumped on the .01-.02 shares, those funds will jump on the .20-.30 shares.
Not investors that know wtf is going on. They HAVE to do the RS to remain legal - under the A/S. Every potential conversion counts as a share. It is mandatory that if every conversion was actually to happen on the same day, the A/S would not be exceeded. That is WHY they have to do the R/S.
NO!!! The A/S is NEVER affected by a R/S. That's the whole fkn point!! READ UP ON TERMS BEFORE ESPOUSING WHAT THEY MEAN!!!
The A/S will remain at 500000000 AFTER the R/S!!!
The CEO has many years on Wall Street and knows the rules. The RS was approved last summer - it was evident to them then that it would be needed, and now is the time that it is needed. I can't say if the new loan is final yet, or if they could somehow be in violation, but I suspect not. And, the conference call should sort anything like that out. Listen in, learn what is actually happening.
The only 'truth' out there is the SEC filings and the stock price. Read those to know, and rely less on chatter in ihub.
That is exactly why the RS is needed. There will be plenty of room under the A/S after the split.
You must have seen the earnings report before the rest of us. We are still waiting for Q4 results. They just borrowed $550K, so that *might* be considered working capital. And of course they sold off a part of the company to pay off toxic debt. And they have another $900K coming in cash. The rest of us can't wait to see what you have already seen, obviously.
I think you missed an update. Last I saw, it was close to the top, and as far as I know, not all conversions have yet been done. The new loan permits conversions too (25-50M), which I believe would definitely take it over the top. In any event, they are not permitted to sell more shares than are authorized, so their only avenue to provide room for the conversions is through a Reverse Split.
The most toxic loans may be gone - where they are given a low price/share and a number of shares. If they just convert at current share price, there would be fewer shares required to liquidate the debt.
The RS is legally required to make room under the AS for convertible shares. The new $550k loan implies 25M shares must be available for the conversion.
The RS reduces OS by 75%. It is immaterial what the stock price is at the time, as Nasdaq listing is a goal, but having sufficient shares available under the AS to account for all convertible shares is required by law.
On the other hand, the RS will also make (500000000/4=125M) X 3 = 375M shares available for new buyers. That may sound like a lot, but large investors can burn through those pretty fast. Price might not rise as fast as some anticipate in this case.
InterCloud bought companies to fill out their business model. They took out loans to form their company, sometimes using toxic methods.
In the past, I've done the same thing. Design them in, design them out. Basically buy what you need to get the business working correctly, then design what is needed to make it work and drop anything no longer needed.
ICLD selling a property they bought for 1 mil at 4 mil means they made a huge profit on it. They also got 11M rev from it last year. That doesn't mean they no longer have the capabilities provided by that company, it means they may have simply designed them out, sold it at a profit, paid off debt with another payment to come that will pay off het another loan. Smart. If they still needed that revenue, it would not have made sense. So they must have integrated that capability inside ICLD, if it is still a needed capability. My guess is that they can still do what that sold that asset did.
Uh, hold it for a year or pay capital gains. Unless you're in an IRA with it... :)
That target was set on May 26, 2016.
ICLD Target
The stock price at that time was $.81 per Nasdaq.
[url]www.nasdaq.com/symbol/icld/historical
[/url][tag]ICLD historical May 16 2016[/tag]That is what I meant about due diligence.
That $6 target is OLD, from when ICLD was trading about $3. Always do you own DD on such things - the stock analysis reports we see often don't take all conditions into account, leading to wildly incorrect projections.
Not that I wouldn't like to see a $6 value on 10M shares!!!!
I just realized something;
"the company has basically sold off one of its operational units for a $4 million upfront payment and up to $0.9 million in additional working capital"
That new loan, if I recall, is about %550K. They stand to get $900K later this year as part of that sale, meaning they could retire the loan early.
Sorry if everyone else got that, but I was thinking they'd have to use profit to pay the loan down, but they have a nice bonus coming that could do it.
This RS is not about Nasdaq. It is about making room under the AS for converted debt shares. You can't sell more shares than are authorized, and the new loan may have taken them past that limit. Raising the A/S requires shareholder vote and SEC approval - that would be the wrong direction to go, when an already-approved 1 for 4 reverse split does exactly what is needed.
Actually, this is almost all in my 401K rollover IRA. No taxes, no keeping track of dividends, buys/sells, none of that. I am taxed only on my distributions, the same as a paycheck would be.
This is all pre-tax money to start with, and I always had my company match maxed as well.
So, using pretax money, and wisely multiplying it outside the tax structure can be quite profitable.
Unfortunately for me, in 2008, my company (directed) 401K dropped by 50% and I got laid off as a bonus. I converted my 401K to a 401k rollover IRA at etrade, and never looked back. I knew I could do better than to lose 50% of my IRA and in fact have never lost any since then. It's up about 10X in the last 5 years.
I started learning slowly, read everything I could find, and watched for rare opportunities to take advantage of. ICLD is one of those, at JUST the right time for me to fully embrace it. I don't day trade at all. I just buy what I think will do well after much DD, and if it doesn't do well, I sell it. If it is consistently green, I keep it and watch for changes in fortunes in those companies. I visit every stock, every day. That is my job. It pays better than any job I ever had.
If the R/S were done today, you would have 1/4 as many shares, but each one would be worth $.179. There is absolutely no change in value, and I don't feel that the share price will drop as a result of this type of action. There is no reason for it - this is good business operation.
There is absolutely no bad news associated with it, but the good news is that O/S hard limit at 500000000 A/S is removed.
It is a new loan that retires other debt. They get 2 years to pay it off, so conversions are not likely...they should be profitable enough to pay the loan back. Think of it as a consolidation loan, with no more conversions/dilution in the pipeline. A very smart, good move for the company and shareholders.
That won't happen. I'm looking for $10+ in time...years, maybe. Hard telling if Google or another big player might swoop in and buy it out. That would hurt that company's competitors. With debt behind them and relisting on nasdaq, icld becomes a pretty attractive target.
It was actually a special dividend of $2.91 on $pip that funded it. $400k on that deal. Half to icld, still have half cash.
I bought my first 500K @$.021 Jan 17 when it was still on Stock Twits. Averaged down for weeks, a mil here, a mil there. My best buy was at $.012, and that got my avg down to 0.175. Avg is now $.0205 on 10 m shares. Didn't know of Sunny or others on this board then, but solid reinforcement here of my own DD caused me to sell off other stocks and pour it into ICLD. Glad I did, I just couldn't see how it could go wrong.
Yesterday alone, I was up $165K. That is life changing, I assure you all. Sometimes, it is just necessary to take a huge risk, if all the stars align for you. This was mine. I expect it to hit $0.10 soon, which will be my first $1m. As a retiree on SS, and that is exactly what I needed.
I may buy more on Monday after the smoke clears at open. I'm holding all until $.10, then will recoup at least half my investment and ride the rest to see where they go.
By law, they can't have more potential conversions to stock than the total amount of authorized shares (A/S). It takes a shareholder vote to change the A/S. A reverse split cuts the O/S by the ratio, but leaves the A/S alone. That leaves room for all conversions to occur without violating SEC rules. Simple.
The reverse split was already approved in 2016. They are just now getting around to implementing it, since they have refinanced some debt to yet another convertible loan, but they have 2 years to pay it off first. Thus, they may never see the conversions, but they have to leave room for them, legally. This is actually good governance -they are doing the right thing for the right reason.
You need to see all the pages of the 8K. It is not in the synopsis page.
You're free to read the 8K, where it is stated. Link on this home page.
They refinanced some debt with a convertible loan. They have two years to pay it. A reverse split of 1:4 by end of month will make room under the A/S for the conversions, even if they aren't ever converted.
I'm one of those. I started buying ICLD on Jan 17. Came here after ST dropped it. Glad as hell I did.
I finally got the last of my 10 mil. Had to average up a little, to $.0205. Today is the first day in my trading life that I was up over $100K in one half of a trading day...wow!
It is going to be an interesting month.
It is not new debt - it is refinancing some existing debt as stated in the 8K:
In an effort to facilitate the Company’s previously articulated recapitalization, non-core asset sales, as well as a conventional asset based lending solution, to reduce the exposure to remaining convertible debentures, on March 9, 2017, the Holder, the Company, and a third-party investor (the “Assignee Holder”) effectuated a two-part exchange with respect to a portion of the Restated Debenture in which the Holder assigned a portion of its interest in the Restated Debenture (the “Assigned Debt”) to the Assignee Holder pursuant to an Assignment and Assumption Agreement, dated as of March 9, 2017, and simultaneously therewith, the Company, all of its subsidiaries, and the Assignee Holder entered into an Exchange Agreement, dated as of March 9, 2017 (the “Exchange Agreement”), pursuant to which the Company issued to the Assignee Holder a 4.67% Convertible Promissory Note, dated as of March 9, 2017, in the aggregate principal amount of $550,000 (the “Exchange Note”) in exchange for the surrender by the Assignee Holder of the Assigned Debt. The Exchange Note has a maturity date of March 31, 2019, provides for the payment of interest in cash or in kind, is convertible into the Common Stock of the Company at the option of the Assignee Holder upon the terms set forth therein, is subordinated to the Senior Debt of the Company, and contains certain trading restrictions, as defined therein.
Reverse stock splits don't affect the number of authorized shares, but a forward stock split issues new stock from the company's authorized shares.
About Stock Splits
So, you see, an R/S is a way to make more room under the Authorized Share maximum. That is what is happening here - there have to be enough unallocated shares to account for any conversions, and a new conversion was just announced. They may pay it before the conversion, but there has to be room for the conversion, in case it goes that way.
Getting to Nasdaq is not the goal with this R/S. It is to allow for conversions, which cannot exceed the A/S. The O/S is being divided by 4, so there will be plenty of authorized shares available for conversions. We are essentially unaffected, though we will have fewer shares worth more.
Yes, it is a typo.
There is no such thing as a 4 for 1 REVERSE split.
It has to be a 1 for 4 reverse split because they could not exceed the AS, which is 500000000. A forward split would only be possible if the AS was increased by almost 4X, and that can't be done overnight. The RS was approved last year, and is being implemented by the end of this month. It is a good move, because it allows the O/S to grow without hitting the A/S. We benefit with a higher stock price.
Just the opposite.
It is 1 for 4, meaning you get 1 share for each 4 you currently own. Only applies to O/S, A/S is unaffected by a R/S. So O/S will be 25% of what it currently is, and we all will have 25% as many shares, but worth 4X more each.
I got 500K today at .024. Average is still below .019. 9 mil now. Still want 1 mil more, but will wait for a pullback. I want each .10 increment to be worth $1M. All the way to $1 and beyond, if it holds.
I do due diligence before I buy. That is the most important step.
I set a limit of losing 50% at some point before it makes money. If it loses 50% of what I paid, I dump it. Worst mistakes are holding stocks that are sinking, thinking they'll recover. Better to exit, wait for the bottom, and, if conditions warrant, get back in. You could set a lower loss level, but OTC can jump around quite a bit.
When it makes money, sell some to recover your investment. Keep doing that until you have your entire investment back, then use what remains to play with 'house money' to see where it goes.
Don't do ANYTHING without understanding why you are doing it. Based on DD, not on what people say - there is no way to know the difference between the truth and pure fiction.
A buyback would imply money to pay for shares. They would have to borrow to get money. They are already in debt. They would have to go further into debt to buy back shares. A buyback implies profit that needs to be returned to shareholders. We ain't close to that yet.