Successful Businessman unlike FLPC
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1KGW:
"Processing of the 1000 tons of antimony ore already dug up out of the ground is up next and then additional mining".
Who told you they were definitely going to Mine, and when will they process the Ore?
Also, there is no way of telling just how much Antimony value is sitting around at a Tolling Mill, so it would be impossible to predict they will Mine unless they had adequate funds to do so...that means many, many thousands of $ in fact, a few HUNDRED thousand Dollars. FLPC doesn't have that sort of cash readily available. Unless you can see actual figures that can prove a Substancial Bank Balance, it will be 'put on hold' as was Fencemaker "to conserve costs" Quote, Bob.
If they had cash available, the BoD wouldn't have to fund the running of the business with their own cash which is evidence of lack of the same.
ECHO: They have already paid some Creditor's in shares quite a while back when the value was much higher. Those creditor's still lose because the value has gone way down, unless of course they cashed them in soon after? I think that all remaining Creditor's are going to be wise to being offered shares which are relatively worthless at this stage, but they may not be in due course? If I were a creditor, I would want hard cash in the hand, not low value shares as that would be palming them off the easy way.
If they are (as some say), in a position to progress with 'funding', then it's only fair and right that some of that cash is used to satisfy some part of their outstanding debts. As I have been following this company for some time, they may well have 'spare' cash but probably not that much...I don't know, but getting cash out of FLPC is like getting Blood out of a Stone. What they have, they keep.
Something BIG is apparently heading your way. Probably an 'F3', so batten down the hatches!! One of that Magnitude will suck up houses almost as quickly as FLPC extracts your investment cash! Obviously for the good of the business! lol.
What did you hear and what was it. Why not share it with everyone. What was the source of info?
2013: "According to First Liberty Power CEO, Don Nicholson, the successful vote bodes well for the Company's future, which includes the mining of stibnite ore on the Fencemaker property and obtaining additional funding for production and milling. "Our mining team has completed revisions to the water management plan and is waiting for engineering and Nevada Department of Environment Protection (NDEP) approval, which we anticipate by early to mid-September." Nicholson, who revisited the mine the day before the shareholder meeting, commented further, "We are in advanced stage discussions with buyers for the stibnite ore, which we will have in place upon the first production of mineral ores.
These arrangements will provide the mining team the flexibility to ship and sell a lower antimony content concentrate upon first production, while further efforts are undertaken to bring a mill into operation." A Mill...which Mill?
That was 4 years ago, so what was the hold up? They've got the Ore, it is a low concentrate, so why no processing. How long does it take. It's still evident they didn't have the 'Ready's even then to progress beyond these writings? It was all talk back then, maybe it's changed now, but we'll see!
Pleasure. I want to see people do well with FLPC and prove me wrong about whether or not this a just a long term ruse or 'does what it says on the tin' so to speak.
RJB: There is 1000 Tonnes of Ore, obviously. According to the BoD, the small percentage of Viable Antimony per Tonne of Ore was just a few Percent which is why it remains unprocessed, but it was't 10%, that I'm sure of...nearer 3%, I seem to recall on tests?
The current price of Antimony is a little less than $9000 per Tonne. The preferred amount of saleable Antimony is approx 81-83% net quality in each Tonne of processed, saleable metal. At the percentage levels they are assumed to have, it would probably net out at less than $1M, less processing and associated costs. Whether it needs to be shipped elsewhere from the Tilling point where it is now, I don't know. If the yield was top quality, they could sell the whole lot for perhaps $7M+ :) now THAT would clearly give them a head start.
With the present yield of a small Percentage of Antimony at less than 5%, they would probably make a profit after costs, but it wouldn't be anywhere near enough to carry on Blasting and loading, etc.
Whilst I very much doubt there are any Mathematician's here, (lol) but someone could try to find out from Bob, what the exact test % was and perhaps the costs of processing it to saleable Antimony. There would then be a clearer picture as to the potential value of the currently stored Ore :)
Not too hard to do the Math with a few basic figures!
I think everyone will be surprised if and when they start Mining and any revenue comes in at all!
The first thing is to try to work out where the cash is going to come from to pay for all this Mining & subsequent Processing! In order to Mine, Process AND make a profit, not to mention continuing that trend, will cost Millions. The way I see it (not through Rose Tinted glasses), is that any continuation to maintain a full Mining program is going to need some serious cash, and that's BEFORE they even start!
To continue Blasting, loading, shipping & processing will almost certainly require 'up front cash' for the Contractor's as a 'Goodwill payment', so unless they have c$5M ready to access, it's going to be more than tricky! $1M will barely scratch the surface.
With current Debt at the last count, can anyone visualise ANY Bank stumping up that sort of cash taking into account that ANY Bank will want to see submission of several years of available Accounts, and with Zero Turnover or Profit, there is little chance of a Loan. This will include up-to-date Filings that are ostensibly in the process of being 'completed'. Thought not?
A perfectly reasonable question. So, for the sake of all those on this Forum, Can anyone answer that realistically and logically? If you can, you should join the BoD!!
I'm only guessing, they may have enough money. Without PROOF or EVIDENCE, it's purely SPECULATION!
The business may be a little hard up for all you or I know, although Bob & Don will never be short of a few $$$... They're Businessmen, mind you, so was Robin Hood & Dick Turpin but in a different context :) They didn't have a Website!!!
It's Public Forum, everyone's entitled to their opinion, good, bad or indifferent. Ignore me, it's up to you!!
ECHO: If you are a shareholder, write to Bob Reynolds and ask him how much is in the Bank at this moment in time, or when he last looked. Despite the Filings, he MUST know the balance of 'his' own business at the last Statement. He cannot or should not refuse to answer...if he does answer. After all, it's partly your money and your entitlement?
The current balance has nothing to do with the Filings as that was for TWO years ago and not present day! Don't let him palm you off with BS. My guess is that as you too say, the Filings may or may not ever be seen. Needless to say, it may give you some idea that in January last year, Bob admitted to me on e-mail, they were considering Filing for Insolvency, but didn't, so this means they are trying to string it out to see what happens and what they may be able to claw back into the business via investment.
What Money does go through from shares is NEVER EVER going to be enough to Mine, but possibly enough to process the existing Ore. Personally, I doubt that will happen either. It's farcical but not many people seem to recognise it yet, but they will!
Yes, Echo115, sadly this is exactly the case, and you are the only person that seems to be able to recognise this?
I wrote here a short time ago about the supposed $1.3M funding. Heaven know's where it came from and with their atrocious track record of not paying bills, who on Earth would lend them that sort of cash...perhaps nobody FROM Earth! LOL, but I did say in my e-mail to Bob, "now that you have apparently acquired this cash, would you not be obligated to pay off some of your creditors?"
This question was again, skirted around with more about addressing that matter after the Filings were completed but no real direct answer. What FLPC did do was to offer shares to some creditors in lieu of payment. That was about 3 years ago.
Be aware that unless by coincidence, the $1.3M Funding was exactly the same as the bottom line debt on one of the last Filings sheets, so yes, they did hint they are in no rush to complete the Filings. (Quote Bob: "Following weeks and months") It does NOT take Months to do Filings, so that's another Porky. If they copied the last set and added further Debt, that would be fairly accurate!
One other thing: Don't forget the millions of shares they have allotted themselves in lieu of pay, because they weren't (apparently) taking salaries either. What will happen, is that once the share price has been deemed to be sufficiently high, they will cash in all their own shares. Once they start doing that, it may be hard to sell one's holding whilst the share price 'tanks'. Eventually, that will kill the SP stone dead.
What a mess!
Where does it say (anywhere) they are investing or have invested "Hundreds of thousands" of Dollars of their own Money? It doesn't. It is highly unlikely these characters actually possess hundreds of thousands of Dollars of their own cash, especially to fund a business with (as their disclaimer states) no guarantee of success. That would be foolhardy and the BoD are most definitely not stupid.
Now that IS a baseless claim with NO EVIDENCE or PROOF. If they did, you wouldn't have waited two years for the Filings because IF they had all that 'spare cash', it would have been done ages ago, and Pitman33 would not be banging his head against the wall in frustration of not being able to trade! Plus, Jerry Whyte would have been paid many months ago for the rent of his land for all those Rocks, or Ore.
All they have ever said is The Director's are funding the day to day running of the business from their own pockets. That's just a few Dollars a day. It's certainly NOT Hundreds of thousands of Dollars!! (PMSL!) This is most definitely not a company that has that sort of cash to speculate with. All they have is a virtual office with a PC, a 'Kettle and a tin of Ships Biscuits'!
I think that far too many people believe that what the BoD write is Gospel. You have no doubt heard the expression 'Been sold a Pig in a poke? Well, this is it? Flying one's at that! LOL
Step 1 should be getting the money to continue with the other Steps. so it's $$$ FIRST. Without this, there won't be any other Steps.
Not so long ago, there was only $50K in the bank. With Zero cash input since inception, so how do you propose they will fund all these steps?
I posed the same question to Bob and he did reply but dodged the question with an indirect response:
"Once the first financial statement is filed, the company expects to continue the filings until the company is completely up-to-date in addition to exploring the processing of the already mined ore that was moved to a tolling mill store site in north Nevada".
These guys are 'Stony' and as far as 'Exploring the processing of Ore', previous tests were made but had low yields to justify processing it.
"...continue the Filings until the company is completely up to date...(Potentially, this holds a very protracted meaning.) I'm sure there's a few of you out there who realise just how tight their budget is. You don't need to see Filings to have an accurate idea as to their Toxic financial state?
The fact that this is a Publicly Listed company, anyone at any time can request the last known Bank Balance...AFTER the last Filings were submitted. They cannot deny you this knowledge because you OWN part of the business, so it's you or anyone else who holds shares (or not), entitlement.
My opinion.
Hustle:
"In the meantime, what can be disclosed is that the Company’s most important areas of advancement have been maintenance of project mining permits"
"How does one execute "Maintenance" of Project Mining permits, apart from either renewing or updating them. I don't really call that the 'Company's most important area of advancement'. Funding is. Permit's are all very well and good, plus not that costly. Without a shack load of cash to Mine with, permits are meaningless unless one actually intends to Mine!
All that sounds is very complex and 'Bureaucratic'!
"They ran out of money and took some time to recover".
Without cash flow, I cannot see how they recovered. However, the BOD HAVE made money, that was much earlier on. If you recall the Millions invested, but with no significant input back into the business, this must be the only way they can afford to keep FLPC ticking over buy self-funding.
Whether or not they have alternative business interests, is not really for us to know, but suffice to say if they had, they wouldn't bother too much with FLPC which should really be turned into a Shell company.
If the 1000 tonnes of Ore was any good (it's been tested to low yield), so after several years of sitting in various places as 'worthless Rubble', I do know that according to Bob yesterday...Quote: "the company expects to continue the filings until the company is completely up-to-date in addition to exploring the processing of the already mined ore that was moved to a tolling mill store site in north Nevada.
"Exploring the processing of the already Mined Ore" To me, that's a very protracted sounding method of dealing with that 'stuff'!
It's going to take AGES...if at all.
The BoD will have the last laugh...all the way to the Bank...and back again! But at least you can laugh about it. That's good!
1KGW thinks we/I are 'Hand-wringer's', that's not the case. Having watched this share for some time, I only chose not to invest but watch how it pans out, simply because of the very high risk and 'lackadaisical' BoDs. Two long years of not doing any Filings hasn't helped 'our friend' Pitman in Canada who is cursing them for not doing their job properly.
How much does it cost to do Filings? Basically, it was down to cost and lack of funds, so this is another reason I wouldn't invest in a company that has/had insufficient funds for basic accounts, let alone anything else.
Labradorite: They haven't actually revived anything yet. All they've done is posted an update on the site which tells you that they are proceeding with the Filings and will give more in-depth updates as and when they happen.
A shovel hasn't even been put in the earth yet and not one stick of dynamite has had it's fuse lit. If and when they do, even I may open a bottle! Wouldn't get too excited until something tangible happens. At the moment, it's ONLY an update....nothing more!
Yes!! Thankyou.
RJB: It's easy to be deluded by farcical shares. People invest 'blind' without considering a company's position, whether it be medium or long term and fail to weigh up the cash they have to work with, or not. Off-set that with a company's intentions against financing and you will see many of them are simply a way of getting cash the easy way and without any legal obligation to do what they propose as long as it looks good on paper.
I never watch, or ever intend to watch that rubbish...as with all Soaps, it tends to rub off on society, they even mimic they way they talk. Very sad.
Pennyhustler: I thinks this Bob's not from Office Space but Outer Space, from Planet FLPC. It's another World in their 'Virtual Office' where things aren't quite what they seem! lol
Bigluke: I think it's best to give the investor's a chance. OK, so the track record of FLPC isn't great by any means, nonetheless, FLPC exists and still has the potential to turn the investor's a profit. All the while they are in business, they have a chance.
It is a very small Office run company with a limited budget, but they could still make the investors a lot of money with the right news. All they have to do is announce something great, then the SP will do the rest. Mining, well, it matter's little if the news sound right, then they can all cash in!!
1KGW: I am surprised you even mentioned the word Libel without PROOF or EVIDENCE where such and accusation was used and in which context?
Yes, there are are a few Newbies here and clearly, you are obviously pleased there's NO VOADEN. Why, didn't you like him? He was a decent hard working member of the Board, and very probably made a massive contribution to the FLPC "Restructure" whilst he was a Director. In addition, he went 'all out' to set up a Website to try to drum up support for FLPC's Mining quest by advertising for JV's, so how come you 'block capt' 'NO VOADEN?
He's probably moved on to get further support for the 'Elizabeth Foundation' (UK based) and concentrate on Fund Raising for the charity. Good old Willy V, highly regarded in the Mining and Mineral World.
BigLuke: I don't think it's quite that bad! Although I have my doubts as to whether the BoD will ever do anything about actual Mining and may be playing games here, it's not a dead cert. At these low prices, just ONE round of great news will send this flying and money WILL be made. It doesn't matter whether they Mine or not if you can make $$ on news then quit while your are ahead.
It's the same with many shares that may never perform well, so all you have to do is catch it right. Penny shares are what they are...high risk and whatever the companies claim they will do, rarely do they succeed which is why trading penny shares is usually the best option. FLPC could be one such share to trade and wait on 'Brilliant' news....even if it doesn't happen, the Market's will be stimulated and the SP will rise accordingly.
Stock up at these LOWS and take a chance? Not me though. I'm done on share dealing now. 15 years is long enough with relatively poor results!
RJB: You are right about the Filings supposedly being ready late last week. According to my Calender note, it was 25th July. Watch the excuses appear. It's unlikely the Filings will be shown for another month at a guess?
Excuse: The new Accountant is off sick or his pen's run out of Ink. Failing that, his Computer Software has crashed!
An extra week is fair to have to wait, but I think this is the start of more 'just words' again from these little rascals Bob & Don... the Abbot & Costello of the Mining trade. Not sure which pair gives me more laughs :))
1KGW: "...This stock is coiled and ready to strike like a Cobra". I think the Victim's have already been bitten! LOL.
Watch out for the 'Snakes in the Grass'.
Waxy: Voaden tendered his Resignation. He wasn't fired. History.
It rather makes one wonder why, if it's that desirable and the 'ONLY' one in the US, why other companies aren't fighting over the rights to Mine it! To make it profitable for Lil ol' FLPC, why don't the just sell the Lease at Take Royalties Per Tonne?
FLPC only own the Lease and Silver Bell own the Mine?
Accountancy is never cheap, didn't say it was!! I do all my own Accountancy to save money. My new accountant will charge me (in USD) $300-400 to do my Tax Return. I 'fired' my last accountant for failing to do his job, and whatever I told him to do, he failed to execute. I am even considering legal action, as his Professional Misconduct has landed me with a Penalty from the Tax Office of $2500. Won't bore with all that, but needless to say, I entrusted him with my books and he failed me, now it's going to cost me trying to appeal...which I will probably lose. However, in the UK, you can make the Tax guys an offer and they sometimes accept a lower settlement.
Wonder what was wrong with the old FLPC accountant. Most businessman need a good accountant to work the books and 'lose things' amongst other figures. Yes, 1KG, before you start going on about Libel an Innuendo, it's perfectly legal to do Creative Accountancy...even if he may come from Benin! LOL
Daylas: I find all this about the BoD paying for the running of the business with "their own money", a bit of a 'Sob Story'. This cash must be part of the Shareholder's investment money from past years? Either they are very confident about getting it all back again, 'Hook or by Crook' and something's cooking, or it's all 'Porkies'! Their Office doesn't cost much to run, it's basic so it's cheap and affordable, but they must have a method. Nobody pays out of their own pocket without sure-fire certainty they will get it back with Interest?
Bear in mind that if you put your own money forward for over a year, you will want it back again...I would! To recover this amount, they will have to have a cast Iron plan to make money, but if per chance it's all BS, their personal outlay will come out of the $1.3M Funding.
I fail to see how the remainder of £1.3M will be able to achieve significant results to get this company going, because that funding is or was the same as the amount of debt they have. I think if my creditor's knew I'd got that amount of money, I'd want back what is owed to me. I still think that FLPC is creating a protracted issue towards claiming there's "Light at the end of the Audit Tunnel" and that an update of company progress in the "following weeks and months", doesn't tell me they are anywhere near Mining.
Considering that it was only in January 2016 Bob was considering making the company Insolvent, FLPC seems a very odd set up. One thing is that I don't think it's in favour of the Shareholder and I have a very good nose for things that don't sound quite right. I've been in business for 1/4 Century now and one get's to 'feel' if something's not quite right. This isn't at it's current position.
Daylis:
Because of FLPC's rather chequered History is the main reason why I didn't invest. IF you have followed any of my posts which most people hate (!!). Facts are facts and for fear of becoming too repetitive about the 'all talk & no action'. I am wondering whether this is the last ditch attempt to grab the shareholder's cash with some exciting words but with no chance of anything happening. Bear in mind the ages of the BoD and their Retirement.
I have wondered for some time if they'd make a big play about how great it is all going to be, but if you read the last major post from the BoD, there is so much ambiguity within, they may as well have said, we are going to achieve great things in our 'vision' and become a main supplier of Antimony in the US, but we can only afford shovels and Picks. Beware the words 'Anticipate', 'possible' 'Hope' and 'If'.
Two guys on the Board that's all, and with very little cash. How on Earth will they do it? Bear in mind the Toxic debt and Zero cash flow. I hate to say it, but I think it's one Jumbo size ruse before they quit. Sorry matey, but they are playing on words which is all they've ever done :((
Seen those movies before. Funny thing is, when you look at them all, they are using the same 'Extras' wearing 'funny hats'! There are several more movies too. They don't even LOOK like Miners... wrong clothing. Ha!
If you look, they show a 'Dozer coming out of the Mine. What they did for effect was to reverse it down out of site, the drive it back out to give the effect that it came all the way from the depths of the Mine! If that machine had been going up and down the Mine for some time, you would not get just a single shallow track coming out from it :)
Considering it's supposed to be a fairly large Mining operation, they seem only have about 6 workers or less, and they seem to be the same 'Extras' in each of the movies wearing the same clothes! LOL At a guess, they were all filmed on the same day :)))
It's all done to try to gain a little credibility!
Big Luke: That's why I decided not to buy these shares although it looks good 'on paper'. Lots of words, no action yet. I Still feel that FLPC is too small to make it big, so this share will have to rely on big words and lots of BoD Hype, even if nothing happens. Apparently they are operating a 'Virtual Office', so I gather?
I hope you DO get your money back. I'm in the same boat elsewhere. All I hope is that, like FLPC, will my company still be here, trading in a year?
Labrodorite: "I'm confident that the funding is there if FLPC needs it. The article said it was to purchase equipment."
It would far wiser if they leased the equipment. That's common sense for any Heavy Plant. This way, IF any funding happens, the money isn't absorbed in say 3 items of Plant, each costing around $100K per machine, unless they buy older used equipment which may be a liability.
As far as 'Ages' ago, it'll be almost a year, however, it's gone now and they eventually paid the Whyte's for the use of their land. It was a LONG time before they coughed up the land rent.
The balance after Plant Hire/Purchase of $1.3M will be spent inside 3 months, as you have to consider how far down the Mine they need to go. They did that in the 80s. If they find a stack of Antimony Ore, they may be able to increase the Funding purely on merit. It's still a very risky game with a relatively small amount of money...if and when it turns up. It all seems to be happening 'overnight' and the hype behind all this is probably what's driving share price.
When the first Rig full of Ore is seen to be in 'shipping mode', then that will be THE Sign of 'production'. Not counting Chickens yet.
Rimbo: Most of what is appearing on here is old stuff. The 1000 tonnes of Ore was removed from Jerry Whyte's Land ages ago but they left a lot of mess doing so. Bob said that it wasn't yet viable to process this Ore as tests proved that overall, the small % of Antimony was not economical to process (at this stage), due to costs outweighing it's value. Yes, it is at a processing plant.
FLPC's 'Funding Arrangement' isn't guaranteed money in the Bank. An 'Arrangement' isn't cash in the hand because nobody know's the Terms & conditions. It's a vast amount to loan a company with Zero Turnover. Consider, would you loan $1.5M to a company that has no Net profit....ever on their accounts, and probably no ability to service the debt without turnover? No, neither would I.!!Also, don't forget the BoD are majority shareholder's who have 'paid themselves' in Millions of shares, so when this reaches it's peek....whenever that will be, they could off-load their own shares to maximise their gain to offset what has come out of 'their own pocket's'.
With potentially a huge dump of shares, one may find it hard to off-load all your own shares in one go unless you catch an early spike?
GL All!
Wishfull Thinking:
Who said they are currently Mining with revenues expected in the near Future? There has been no announcement about actual Physical Mining. If this were announced by the BoD who would be seriously excited about this, when did they start and what is the name of the Contractor's who are doing it. There's been no build up to this at all!
As far as I'm aware, there has been no Public Announcement about this as yet. If there were, the Share Price would be many time where it is now, so I don't think any Mining by FLPC is actually happening at the moment: Reason. They haven't completed the Filings to see how much 'Spare cash' is available to pay the Contractor's, because to start this operation, it would have been costed at many hundreds of thousands of Dollars for a few months work, plus transportation and processing of Ore. They haven't even processed the existing 1000 Tonnes yet due to costs. FLPC doesn't have that sort of cash spare, especially as they are/were $1.3M in the red and owing numerous Creditor's.
No Contractor is going to undertake the work without assurance of payment and probably some up front. It will take ages to get to the Veins, simply because of the two past Mining ventures back in the 1930s and the 1980s. It will cost a Mint to get to the 'Fresh' Veins way down. Also, the word is that they were to apply to the US Government for Funding Fencemaker as and when. In addition, William Voaden, late of FLPC set up his own Website to try to get Funding from Joint Ventures for Fencemaker. This never happened, and now he's gone. So how do you know all this because FLPC is NOT Currently Mining!! Wrong Info, mate.
Doogie: I have read the most recent Company announcement (above), and I don't think I will buy these shares simply because what I read tells me that all they've done is Paperwork! See below:
FLPC writes: " In the meantime, what can be disclosed is that the Company’s most important areas of advancement have been maintenance of project mining permits and ongoing resolution of prior permit/environmental related issues. While the majority of this information is already public domain, this summer FLPC Management anticipates releasing in-depth reports on Company progress and the remaining requirements in this matter."
From what I can see, they are no nearer Mining now than two years ago.."Anticipate releasing in-depth reports" etc. What you have here is 'Maintenance of Mining Permits'. All that means is they've read it and it complies with the County's requirements. All it is, is jazzed up to make it look good on PAPER, nothing more, nothing less. How do you 'Maintain Mining permits'....apart from ensuring they are up to date. All you have here is a play on words! LOL
I wouldn't be fooled into thinking this is about to explode, although if they write something really great, it will...even if they don't really mean it! Crafty lot aren't they?!! LOL.
Don't think I will be throwing good money after bad! Too dodgy!
GL anyway.
The excitement in this share is like I've never seen on any stock in the last 14 years! If and when they really start to Mine, I can see the sales of Shorts increasing many fold. lol
The best I've seen was when Garmin was bidding for Raymarine (They didn't buy, but I made $900 on the Spike! :))
I was lead to believe that as Filings hadn't been submitted by FLPC for years, that was unacceptable by the Canadian 'Stocks & Shares Dept. Once that's been done, they will lift the order. I had that direct form the department itself.
RJB: Any alleged allegation's will be proven if and when FLPC do what they say they will. Personally, whilst it may look promising on paper, they need to do more than just write a few choice words. So will they? Hmm.
Labrodorite: Yes, there most certainly are now. High Time, so you are obviously very clued up about what's what and what's not?!
Re. RJB: Actually, no. There were a few other's including Mainesbest. He did say there was a lot of detailed legal wrangling going on which was unfounded, so that was an untruth an also made a few more serious accusation's without adding the 'alleged' word which makes a lot of difference.