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Its game over once JBI is cash flow positive.
This is when processors 2 and 3 are online.
We know the buyers are there.
End of story.
tic-toc
I got it. January 1st 1970, born in Fonthill Ontario.
Here is an old but informative article about JBI.
http://www.millierdickinsonblais.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/BordyniukStory-2010.pdf
Anyone know John's Bordynuik's date and place of birth?
My wife is an astrologer. She wants to do his chart.
I know, I know.
But if you know, please post here.
Great post, should be sticky posted in fact.
You have summarized the issues very nicely.
I particularly like that the worst case scenario, as in the plaintiffs getting everything they want (ain't gonna happen), does not even come close to breaking the core business.
This is the crucial point for all the nervous nellies out there.
It seems many have decided JBI is guilty without hearing JBI's side of the story.
Shame.
So far...we only have one side of the story.
JBI will have plenty of evidence of lack of intent.
They obviously believe they have a good case.
If JBII didnt receive the Wells Notice until July 21st, 2011
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/110721/jbii.pk8-k.html
how did these guys know about it in APRIL 2011????
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=9344&mid=9344
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=9344&mid=9597
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=9344&mid=9631
May 2011
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=6759&mid=10234
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=10252&mid=10252
June 2011
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=12202&mid=12228
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=12202&mid=12230
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=12243&mid=12268
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=12202&mid=12280
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=12202&mid=12445
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=12435&mid=12470
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=12698&mid=12747
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=12732&mid=12816
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=12757&mid=12843
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=12907&mid=12907
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=13195&mid=13195
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_J/threadview?bn=109773&tid=13736&mid=13753
theres about 15 pages on Yahoo mentioning JBI getting a wells notice MONTHS before they ever got one
would the SEC Inspector General be interested in those timelines???
just leakin`
quarterdeck,
why don't you post it on the JBI board?
It's relevant isn't it???
I'll do it if you want.
Thanks for your good work on JBI this 4kids! Keep fighting the good fight.
I too noticed all messages here popping up about the lawsuit a week or so ago. The messages had a lot of details and seemed to be written by someone with in-depth knowledge of securities law.
I did not subscribe to this view before, but based on what I have seen all over Ihub, I now think the suit was filed at the behest of certain interested parties. I am guessing they either want cheaper stock, or have a large naked short position in JBI.
I view it as good news that the case may take years. Very good news. It means any damages will be easily covered and John (if he believes he may be removed) has more than adequate time to prepare a sucessor, which, by then, will be a cookie-cutter business of manufacturing P2O processors. (because the relationships will already be established)
(How do you get all this done with 4 kids and 9 pets, you must be busy!)
Agreed. For example they use they said JBI "purports" to research P2O development.
For gods sake! That is what is DOES do. It doesn't purport to do it.
The whole thing felt like the opposing lawyer's argument.
These companies stand to make a lot of money from JBI. Businesses like to make money.
This lawsuit has nothing to do with p2O. Nothing.
What do you think is going to happen? "OMG you purposely overvalued your media credits! You have to pay damages to the sec and your CEO has to be replaced I want nothing to do with you!" I don't think so.
Last I heard, if you are partners with a company which you stand to profit from, you will actually do everything in your power to help them.
(Sorry for my blunt tone)
It is on the OTCQB. It has not been halted.
JBI will get through this.
Why do you think his account has been suspended? The plot thickens.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/Boards/profilea.aspx?user=47408
My take on the lawsuit as a long-term shareholder
As a long term cautious investor, I try to consider the maximum downside of any stock.
Prior to the lawsuit, I felt the worst that could happen was that there would be constant delays and I would be diltuted...but...at some point the processors would fire-up and we would be churning out some cash. - rinse and repeat etc
(I apologize for the refresher course, but its important to keep this in mind when making a baalnced and sensible investment decision.)
The clincher for me in knowing P20 is real is that it verified not only by independent chemical experts -
Islechem and Conestoga Rovers,
(http://www.plastic2oil.com/site/evolution) or see Ibox
but also governmental organizations - NYDEC (as well as politicians hungry to see job-creating businesses)
(http://www.plastic2oil.com/site/evolution)
and also commercial entities such as Rock-Tenn, Coco Paving, XTR Energy, and Indigo Partners (see news releases)
It doesn't take a genius to realize when you have free input, minimal labor costs, and a very valuable output that margins will be massive. Whether its 90% or higher of 70%, it doesn't matter.
This process is replicable and highly scalable. This much is obvious to any fair-minded long term shareholders.
This is not to discount the cost of building a processor or R&d start-up cpsts, (and now higher legal expenses). But these are not continuing operational costs.
So, thus far, JBI has relied on PIPE financng as well as John very recently (and graciously) giving back 3,000,000 of his own shares to the treasury.
(http://jbii.ir.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EDGARpro.dll?FetchFilingCONVPDF1?SessionID=TA6sFdUKF7c8pkv&ID=8278904)
The question on my mind is what will be the long-term effect of the lawsuit.
The worst case scenario is that the plaintiff get everything they want. That is John is removed from JBI as CEO and from the board of directors as well as paying a very large fine. I hastily add, I don't think this will happen, because plaintiffs typically overshoot as part of the bargaining strategy.
In regard to the probable size of the fine, this post is helpful because it is by someone who works in this area. (http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=70530598)
The difficulty in the short term is that share price declines (if they occur) may require greater dilituion to finance any PIPES that may be needed. I believe this to be the strategy of the shorts. They am to maximise the fear and confusion by creating "scary unknowns".
So, how to get money in the short term.
1. PIPES
2. John has the option of returning more shares to the treasury at any time to fund further operations.
3. Further, you can rest assured processors 2 and 3 will be online now or very very very soon to fund operations. Then the operation will very easily cash-flow positive, especially considering the improvements that have been made to the processors recently (see recent 10q) and the recent stack test where it was stated the pre-melt greatly improved feed rates (http://www.plastic2oil.com/site/news-releases-master/2011/12/07/jbi-inc-successfully-completes-its-final-p2o-stack-emissions-test)
Option 3 is clearly what JBI is working very hard to achieve.
Longer term there are two issues. These are what the plaintiffs want.
1. John may have to disassociate himself from the company. He built it. He will find someone competentto run it and he will keep his shares. So what?? I dont think, once developed, that running JBI is rocket science. It just took a rocket scientist to build it.
2. JBI will pay a fine and some legal costs upon conclusion of the case. When that will be? Well, the legal system moves very slowly. The longer the case is the less percentage impact it will have on JBI's earnings - lets say they pay a 2 million dollar fine (BTW that is highly unlikely)
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=70530598
It would probably be a minimum of a year and probably much longer. John can stretch the process out to give JBI more time.
So - worst worst case - maybe a year or later from now John leaves and is replaced and there is a big fine which will be able to be paid from earnings from P20
So what?
I agree.
They want John out and monetary damages.
The SEC are not seeking to stop operations.
This is not stated...anywhere.
If John has been dishonest, kudos to those who called it right.
If this is proven, I will be disappointed.
But I invested based on the fact this this technology has been validated my multiple independent entities. I invested on the simple economics of free input and high margins for a scalable process.
I see no evidence by any naysayer that this is not true.
So if John is not a board member, okay.
Then get a replacement. And?
The essential work in getting the company off the ground has been done.
Removing John is a blow. But surely a porpoer replacement could be found.
I am not getting how this impacts the P2O business over the long term.
Thanks for rationalizing the discussion.
These are the relevant issues as I can tell as well.
I think the questions posed by EP are very good:
What are the projected costs of the entire suit to the company?
What is the projected time it will take to conclude?
What will the terms be for additional financing?
What effect will this have on O/S?
What is the contingency plan should John have to step down?
How soon until JBI reaches cash flow positive?
Will this effect uplisting in the future?
Get good answers to these, then the market can assess the situation better.
I understand your point but you are making a very vague point.
What do you mean that it might not be as "revolutionary" as claimed - specifically???
Well P20 has been validated as real as by multiple independent third fuel testers and companies such as Rock-Tenn, XTR Energy, and Indigo Energy Partners.
P2O is the core business.
As long as JBI (and (I don't see why they won't because P2O is real) grows as expected then payments of fines will not be a problem.
I have no problem with John being removed if that happens because the business is set up now.
I hope future companies possibly doing business with JBI can see the forest for the trees.
When will the issue go to court?
This is important for a lot of reasons.
When will the issue go to court?
This is important for a lot of reasons.
Can someone link the actual sec allegations please?
Who cares.
Whether Agilyx sells a few machines or not, it is going to have NO effect on JBI's short or long-term earnings.
No effect.
None.
Why? - because there is more than plastic to go round. (though JBI has locked up RKT's supply for the next 10 years)
May I suggest we all focus on something more directly relevant to JBI. - which is, after all - what this board is about.
I think Agilyx was initially promoted on this board to make it appear as if they are competition which might reduce JBI's success over the long haul.
Even the most die-hard Agilyx fan cannot demonstrate how that might be so.
The argument has since morphed into whether Agilyx is even viable.
It doesn't really matter if it sells a few machines or not - it won't affect JBI in the slightest.
Not one bit.
You asked why the need to purchase 3rd party fuel.
The reason is because there are not enough processors to meet capacity at the moment.
"The XTR Energy agreement will require the Company to purchase third party fuels to blend with its P2O fuel output until it can build out the capacity to meet the full quantities required by the customer."
I thought the PR was very clear on that.
Just clarifying.
TIC-TOC KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!
No idea - my wild guess - a lot
"The XTR Energy agreement will require the Company to purchase third party fuels to blend with its P2O fuel output until it can build out the capacity to meet the full quantities required by the customer."
It is a temporary situation until enough machines are built.
It shows the amount of fuel required is significant.
http://www.plastic2oil.com/site/faqs
"Management anticipates that access to project financing for multiple additional processors will be forthcoming, given our access to free feedstock along with the closing of large fuel supply agreements."
Guess what, large fuel supply agreements have just been closed.
Are you scared?
Tic-Toc. - KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!
This is a big piece of news you uncovered here.
Revenues from XTR in the 2nd quarter. I was hoping the 1st.
I still can't get the rationale for naked shorters to continue to short JBI at this point.
They won't be able to "break" JBI with such tactics and they know it. The reasons being longs aren't selling and JBI is slowly but surely making progress in the roll-out of their business plan.
The rational thing to do is cover now. Not dig a deeper hole for themselves when uplisting arrives.
This is why I have difficulty believing this theory.
Do you have any opinion on the revenue ClipStream may bring in?
Here is a link to an updated report on In-Touch.
http://www.researchfrc.com/research/pdf/inx/INX%20Update%20-%20Dec%202011.pdf
Wow considering that "pump" went to over $4 on almost no news other than the airing of John's plans from the AGM, think how high this "pump" can go with 3 huge pieces of real news verifying JBI is the real deal. This is bad time to be short JBI, a very bad time.
Here are the details.
1. 10 year exclusive contract with Rock-Tenn.
http://www.otcmarkets.com/edgar/GetFilingHtml?FilingID=8077958
2. Long-Term Fuel Supply Agreement with Indigo Energy Partners.
http://www.otcmarkets.com/edgar/GetFilingHtml?FilingID=8301959
3. JBI, Inc. Signs Multi-Year ‘Transport Fuel’ Take-Off Agreement with XTR Energy
http://www.otcmarkets.com/edgar/GetFilingHtml?FilingID=8305761
So, based on your analysis, I would suggest going long on this.
You might even make a 300% gain. - LOL
"And who knows if the blending site has got fuel ready to blend and they were just waiting for XTR Energy in come on board.
(me thinks so)If I am right 4th Quarter will be a big surprise."
I was thinking the same thing. There could be a whole heap of fuel already sitting at the blending site which could be instantly sent out and booked as revenue - thus showing up in the very next 10q.
The frying of those with short positions hasn't really begun. So far, the pan is just being warmed up.
Merry Xmas from Taiwan to everyone on the swing-trade board.
"The Company has been given an opportunity to respond to the Wells Notice, and will decide on how to proceed based on consultation with its litigation counsel. The Company does not anticipate that the notice will negatively impact its business operations"
This is near the bottom of page 18 of the latest 10q.
http://www.otcmarkets.com/edgar/GetFilingHtml?FilingID=8256938
Why would you write something which directly contradicts what is stated in the 10q????
JBI is NOT involved with this company
There are two companies with the same name, but this Indigo Energy uses a hypen in its name.
1. This company:
Indigo-Energy, Inc., an independent energy company, engages in the exploration, development, and production of natural oil and gas in the Appalachian Basin in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Kentucky, the United States. It also conducts drilling operations in the Dubois Field in Jasper, Indiana. The company is based in Henderson, Nevada.
The CEO is Mr Stephen p Durdin
The CFO is Stanley Teeple
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=IDGG:US
2. The company JBI has just contracted with is a fuel distributor, not a fuel exploration company or producer.
Read about them here
http://indigoenergy.com/about_us/about_us.html
Its CEO is John Mansfield.
No problem, I've sent them an email. If I hear back, I'll let the REPR board know.
Raw,
On that link there is a live chat feature. My time zone and hours of work make it difficult, so I was wondering if you could ask the supplier if the high-flo needles are selling well or not.
I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be.
Frank