Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Yes, because of pollution and the EPA along with fracking making Nat. gas a competitive and cleaner alternative. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ldEZtPpz7ZU Again, words matter.
Come on man. Biden has said numerous times he would put coal companies out of business. No reason to have oil produced overseas if we can do it here and cleaner and create American jobs or do you prefer it done overseas to a government that is Communist? I thought we were the leader in Green H2? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-10-green-hydrogen-companies-131200638.html Heck we are not in the top 5!
Yes, they are, and one thing noted was lengthy time to get things done. Also, demand is down and projected to go lower with Covid. Then you have electric cars. And yet Biden just approved Venezuela to drill with Chevron. Why give business to an enemy?
Excuse me, I think you may be wrong there. Try getting any permit to build a new refinery in the US. I don't think it would be allowed and the regulation to slow walk it like with nuclear makes the investment near impossible to complete.
Yes, and Biden just approved drilling in Venezuela by Chevron. You cannot make this stuff up. Amazingly stupid and Anti-American!
last post for me. Since when did Hyvia start producing cars at Latham? I must have missed that or are you talking about fuel cell units that will be shipped to France and put in the cars. Are we even sure all the fuel cells going into the cars are from Plug and not contracted out with another Fc maker in Europe?
I doubt it probably just a slip up with some sleep deprivation unlike the President. I just feel Andy see himself as a dreamer and savior of the world type. While we all need dreamers at some point a realist needs to be in place to make sure the company is focused on making profits and not chase every shiny object. They also need to be good stewards of the money they spend and that includes compensation.
Funny he said 1000 by 2030. I knew he meant 100,000, but only 800 from a recent 1000 in 2023. I wonder how many we have to produce too actually be profitable. Think we need more a of a pragmatist than a dreamer at this point. He laid a track and now we need a hands-on leader that puts profits and shareholders first in my opinion.
Strange we are doing business with Nel when we got their original engineers a few years back when they got out of the FC business. Wonder why we did not get this or take this business?
Thanks for the updates!
I know some of you follow hiring. With all the layoffs and freezes going on with tech companies have you seen any reduction in the hiring frenzy at Plug or is it still as robust as ever?
Without a doubt profit should come first, but Andy is so loyal to Amazon and Msft. you know they will come first. Now it would be nice to get some agreements in hand with some major truck stops or manufactures in place to coincide with the rollout of trucks in the next few years so that the chicken and egg are hatched at the same time.
So, if Plug produced more than enough green H2 now they would not sell it to NASA if they could make a profit? Chrisp, I think you have a point, but we do not have the supply at this point and if we did and could make more money supplying NASA we would. I think first dibs is our own supply to bring down the cost of having to buy it now. After that it will go to customers and the highest bidder with the longest-term contract to lock in profits. I just hope we price it properly to make a profit and can adjust for future increases and not give it away as we have in the past.
Most likely because the supply of Green H2 is not ready yet I suspect and like Plug you have to go to where the supply is now until green is ready.
On another note, I had an article about Toyota's Class 8 truck's, at the LA port, that has been undergoing trials since 2019. They have been very successful and will be going into production.
Yes, that Amazon deal. Not sure how profitable that will be and if we again, gave away the store, at shareholders expense with the warrants. I guess if the big boys are waiting and allowing us to be the guinea pig that buys us some time and who knows with the tax credit, we are at least reducing our cost and hopefully edging closer to becoming profitable. We still will have a leg up on these guys with timing and for customers that need other products like forklifts and in the future other products we can increase our sales.
I'm guessing it will come down to what competition is doing Jack and who gives the most to get the deal. Like I said it opens things up and the one that has a value-added proposition would have an advantage in my opinion. On a pure Green H2 deal only it would come down to price and service and who can be first to market. We may have an advantage at this point assuming get our plants up and running before the competition, but the big boys like Air products will be tough competition for sure.
So, right off the bat Andy says they will have to share the tax credit to get business so we cannot rely on the credit to put as much money back into our pocket as some surmised. I see this as an area that we might have the upper hand in some situations where we get into horse trading since we have the whole value chain. I can see deals like we will grant X amount of the credit if you use our tanks, transportation, service, and other products potentially.
Plants of 500 tons a day. That is huge, but melds to what I've read recently saying that small suppliers may go bankrupt as bigger plants take over the business.
Wow, Roberto actually got back to me. First time since the lawsuits over accounting. Hi Steve – and do feel free to reach out to me directly.
Couple of items this to note in response to two articles – attached are some pictures from COP27 so check the background
FFI Fortescue: Our movement in the partnership is ongoing, and we are working with them on the Gibson project as planned, and working through details and specifics on the JV.
Fertiglobe: We have shipped 10MW already, with plans to ship another 5-10MW by year end. Not only is the 100MW project still in process as was previously announced months ago, we have ongoing conversations for additional electolyzer opportunities with Fertiglobe.
N.B. The article regarding Orascom refers to a spokesman at Scatec. Plug’s contractual agreement for electorlyzer is between Plug and Fertiglobe, not Scatec who is a shareholder of the consortium.
This was recent I thought. If false, he should be sued or at least made to retract the article and banned from ever writing in regard to Plug.
Seen two recent articles calling into questions if deals in Egypt and with Fortescue were still on. Not sure if this was short misinformation or maybe true and we are not being transparent like with delays and other issues. Sorry, I do not have the links, but they were in my feed last week.
While I'm used to being disappointed with performance and continued losses, I think this last quarter got their attention. They talked about being conservative, so I will give them the benefit of the doubt in that regard. They made mistakes on how long things take to get done and supply chains issues have been a challenge for most companies. Now they know this and next time should have a better idea what is involved to get a project done. I think they may go after the lower hanging fruit using Olin and cutting cost until the market builds up. You don't want to be ahead of the market and left with products in inventory or H2 you cannot sell yet if the economy tanks. Saw an article the other day that said many small electrolyser companies selling 1gw units versus the bigger units that companies are going to may end up bankrupt as the market could be oversupplied in a few years. Have a good weekend.
Jack, we know that PLUG will continue to lose money on H2 until such a point they can produce enough of their own to cover the cost of what we subsidize our customers. At least with Nat. gas back down that might help a smidge. At this price I think shorting is a real gamble and the odds do not favor it unless you assume things are just going to get a whole lot worse and granted, they very well could, but we are priced pretty low. Also, if things get real bad Powell will back off or slow down the rate increase for a breather at least and that would rally markets. Don't get greedy here as we know things can flip for odd reasons either way.
We basically are getting back what we had in the morning and lost later in the day at this point. This could be a one-day event, another bear market rally, or an early Christmas rally. We will see. Thing is long term none of these matters unless you are trading. We will move with the markets until we have profits. Retail has very little power sadly and Algos and Bots do in this day and age. Always a better way to game the system I guess to favor the house. Funny if we did what they do we would end up in jail for market manipulation.
I hope you are right, and it was not a Freudian slip he just forgot. I'm slightly older and no way I could keep up with what he has to on a daily basis. Thanks.
So, it seems 2023 is in the works as far as plants and now we just have to see if they can stay on schedule. I hope they overestimate the time so that we are not negatively surprised because if production is late the mix cost will be up and we miss again at the end of 2023 as far as being BE. Whatever that means. I want to see us in the black quarter after quarter. Wondering when that date will be? Thinking 4Q 2024 or 2025?
Listening to the call and Andy did say there would be some upfront cost(charges) when talking about industrial products and then when asked by Joe on a follow up question, Andy goes blank and has no memory of saying it. The rest of the call was pretty consistent. I found it interesting that they are trading off some of the credits to get business. Seems like Andy likes sharing and giving away the store. I wonder how necessary it is if you truly are the leader why? No one asked them about adding a fuel surcharge to help cover our increased cost. No one asked about their compensation being obscene as compared to peers and no one asked about them or the company buying shares.
I did gather that working with Olin maybe a quicker way to market and lower cost than setting up our own plants and expect them to use that method more in the future.
Last post. You mean like Congress where everyone gets rich trading on inside information. I think you are naive to believe that people will not work in their own self-interest first. Look at Plug as a prime example. The top management and Andy are paid way more than most companies their size and even the fortune 500 companies. They have put their self-interest above that of shareholders, in my opinion. I lean conservative, and don't back unions, but think our pay is way out of line. We have had many missteps in this journey, but no one but shareholders have paid the price. No one in management has lost their job due to accounting issues, delayed project or cut projects. No one got pay cuts either. So, where's the accountability? Granted this is a new industry and mistakes will be made. I hope we learned something, but wonder.
I doubt that once the Reps. take control of the house much of anything that was passed changes except maybe the 80k IRS agents. There will be gridlock on anything new and maybe they can pressure Biden to loosen up on energy, which would be a good thing and help get us out of this mess sooner. Gridlock is usually good for the market. Plug is already down what 66% for the year so hoping it does not get worse! About time for some support of the stock from our leader. Amazing he's so gun ho about the future, but his actions don't show it.
Well, that makes no sense in this case. Andy to get $50 million if the stock hits $100 a share in 2024 as part of his package. To me it makes sense that you want the public to know you support the stock by buying in the open market. Why hide it unless you don't want anybody to know you might be selling it based on inside information and fear being sued.
I do not agree with this guy at all, but here's his report.
Fair enough, but you can follow the logic of the argument. Words have little meaning if not followed by action and results. While I will agree we have come a long way since I started buying PLUG in the $2-$4 range before stupidly buying a boat load in the $40's there have been promises of being profitable, accounting issues, dilution, delay after delay that just continues to push back being a profitable company. Still, no one buys the stock in the open market from management even after the huge price drop. Why? If you truly feel we hit $100 in 2024! There is nothing they could buy or do other than buying their own stock to get them a 5X+ return in that short amount of time. They want us to believe it, but apparently, by their lack of action say otherwise. After the boasting by Andy at the Symposium one would think that the $100 price is in the bag and yet where's the action that matches the words? Is it all show and salesmanship or does he believe what he says? I'd like to hear what others think on this matter is all.
Most likely Plug will finish up on things they said would be done in 2022. No doubt things have slowed down. I was surprised that FFI was not even mentioned at the Symposium nor Forest an invited guest. Maybe his and Andy's ego could not fit in the same room. I'm a long-term investor here and like many have suffered the dilution of the stock each year as millions of shares are granted to insiders. All of Andy's talk of the greatest and boasting seems hollow when he and none in positions of power buy shares in the open market. Logically, if Andy is going to get his 50 million payday to get the stock to $100 in 2024 wouldn't it make sense to buy shares to get a 5X return within 2 years with their or company money? Where else can they get that type of return? This tells me Andy is talking a big game, but in reality, he does not believe and neither does management. This is the same thing all of us have seen over and over in the past what 10 years now. So, tell me, build my confidence, why should any of us trust Andy at this point?
Thanks! Funny, I said the market would be up before the election. Amazing how things happen.
Well, will be traveling to Inverness, Scotland for 9 days so not sure what the wifi will be like. Hoping things are looking better when I get back.
Yes, I heard it, but then stuff happens and heard it all before. I will believe it when it actually happens.
It was a service that did a review, Wall Street something and private. I don't make stuff up and have been here for years. It was their opinion based on their research. At this point and after years of chasing being profitable, I would not be surprised if 3 years is about right. They are talking 2024 themselves so 2025 would not be unreasonable since it seems we are about 12 months behind in building our plants. Being a more recent investor here you might not have heard all the projection never met and them saying a few times not needing money and then within 24 hours doing a huge stock sale. Andy has been terrible with teases, projections and over promising and under delivering over the years. Until recently he was getting better and then the stock sale timing with the huge secondary and accounting issues really hurt his credibility. Don't get me wrong I have tried to like Andy as he seems a genuine nice guy, but his leadership has been lacking, in my opinion. Sure, he has vision and enthusiasm, but his lack of empathy for shareholders and seeing what his main priority should me is a major flaw. Again, my opinion.
We would be much closer to profitable if our salaries were in line with our peers. With Andy getting $52 million versus $8.6 million and the top executives $25 million it takes away from the bottom line. Add to that all the warrants to Walmart and Amazon and we pay them to do business. I had hoped that would have stopped since we are no longer desperate for business, or at least I thought. Between that and the dilution from the offering and all the stock granted the only ones taking a beating are shareholders. Granted the few that bought cheap and held are still up the I would venture to say the vast majority that bought in the last 2 years or so are way down. From a report I read this weekend they felt in 3 years we would still not be profitable. I hope they are wrong, but I thought we would have long been profitable and believed Andy. I cannot take a loss because mine is in an IRA, so I hold and hope, which is not a good way to invest. I just feel management has put themselves as #1 and shareholders and profitability at the bottom of the priority list. So, prove me wrong. Who else pays near what we pay and makes no profit? If they really cared, they would reset their priorities and buy shares in the open market and make cut in pay until at least they made a sustained profit. Maybe, I'm old school, but I expect results before rewards.
I guess time will tell on this one with sales numbers in the future, assuming they tell us. I would had hoped by now that they learned from previous miscalculations and the market and pricing were now in line to roll this out. Noticed nat. gas is in the low $5 range so that should help some after being in the $8-$9 range.
So, you don't think they have thought this out or did not have the demand prior to attempting to pierce this market? I'm thinking they listened to customers. Many might feel any extra cost maybe worthwhile to have a cleaner work environment and more efficient. Some may feel it is better for the planet. For all we know the cost savings maybe there or on par with batteries. Maybe you should talk top Jose since you have visited Plug, he may be open to talking to you.
Not true anymore with the new product. Seems smaller users with 25 lifts would be a fit and why that product was developed. Anyway, it seems the big money, up to $2 Trillion is backup and microgrid for data centers and large plants. Seems MSFT is not quite ready to commit yet, but that and supply green H2 should be a major push. Now if we wish to make supply deals of H2 for trucks that would be fine but buying a truck firm where we have no expertise would spread us too thin, which we already are in my opinion. Funny there was no talk about airplanes, drones, airports and tuggers etc. I asked a ton of questions, and nothing picked, but I did not expect them to. The only time IR listens is when they are afraid of being sued, sadly.