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"Power: What Are You Measuring?"
http://www.overclockers.com/tips00679/
However, we do know is that the eventual power consumption of 90nm Hammers will reach the levels of current 130nm chips, which as we now know is in the neighborhood of 104 watts.
Given that the maximum released speed of a 90nm Hammer is likely to be 2.8-3GHz, looks like power consumption will rise rather rapidly per speed bump from this point on, which likely means that 67 watt figure is probably pretty close to the actual figure for the 2.2GHz, with numbers jumping up a lot from this point on.
And that is what overclockers ought to really be concerned about.
The strategy to nickel and dime Itanium to death is the safest course, and it is what appears to be taking place.
Joe
Actually, I was doing a little bit of thinking outside the box, on that very subject, and a little different possability came to me. Check this WAG scenerio out.....
IA-64 Does Not die the death that most, if not all, AMD fans expect it to. Instead, the features and capabilities of both XEON EM64T and Itanium share, and share alike, (IA-64 with EM64T?) until there is 1 "Morph'd" Primarily IA-64 chip, with some sort of EM64T capability, sopping up all that 90nm (65nm?) capacity. Instead of the anticipated (hoped for?) death of Itanium, what actually becomes obsolete is..... XEON EM64T..... along with, of course, it's "compatible competitor chip" from "You Know Who".
Impossible? Sure..... Pure speculation? Of course, but..... as I understand it, according to the intel/AMD technology sharing agreements, AMD does not have the rights to the IA-64 instruction set, or EM64T, it might be something for some investors to consider..... eh?
semi, we´re obviously both now in the "full-time INTEL apologist" camp. To translate from doug-talk to english, that means, "Oops, I missed that, somewhat embarassing for me, nevermind, let´s move on, and try to learn nothing from it".
Trust me..... intel is learning a bunch from having to eat crow almost 24x7 lately, while attempting to turn an aircraft carrier on a dime, at full speed. As painful, and embarrasing as it is, the point in my mind, is that I think it is a correct adjustment to course, and is at least, better late then never.....
Besides, I hear crow tastes sort of like chicken
Intel SLIPS again. No 3.8GHz 2MB L2 until Q2 05.
Oh, the pain!
Yes...... Pain..... It's Terrible.....
SIGH........
I guess Intel will just have to "get by", in the meantime, with the the 3.733 Ghz part with 2MB L2 + 1066 Mhz FSB which is probably an even better performer, and scheduled for Q1. And, as much as I hate to admit it I think Keith says it better then I could. and btw, I have to say...... "david", that for some reason, I just can't shake this "feeling", that Some how..... Some way,..... that this Keith information isn't "news" to you..... is it.
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/readmsg.aspx?msgid=20677464
Greg, any chance we can get the iHub administrators more involved here?
For this type of request, You might want to send a note directly to Matt. here's a link to do so:
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/post_prvt.asp?user=2744
Thanks
Intel Adds Speed to Centrino Notebooks, Proclaims Milestone of Mobile 90nm Chips
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile/display/20041021051424.html
Intel Corporation unveiled a new 2.10GHz mobile chip aimed at mainstream notebooks and said half of its Pentium M chips are now made using the latest 90nm process technology.
Notebook Purchases Not Enough to Buoy Overall PC Expectations
http://www.reed-electronics.com/semiconductor/article/CA473054?spacedesc=news
While U.S. home notebook shipments were strong during Q3, desktop demand was much weaker, which brought down back-to-school shipments overall, according to Stamford, Conn.-based Gartner Inc.
Intel’s Sonoma to launch January, 600-series CPUs to include EM64T
http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20041021A7050.html
Despite reports that it may delay its Sonoma platform launch to the second quarter of next year, Intel has informed its clients in Taiwan that its new mobile platform will be launched globally between January 17-21, 2005, with pre-launch sales beginning in Japan 10 days earlier, according to sources at Taiwan PC makers.
LOL!
BTW
To the board, if you were unable to fully decode my previous post, then you obviously did not receive the "SemiconEng - Secret Decoder Ring PM". Ya must not be on the dis list, sorry
I think you'll still get the gist of the message, eh?
I should read me email :)
I agree, I always read my email first, especially the PM's. Sometimes, they even sort of change my perspective a little, ya know? And based on the current status of electron flow material, Well, I don't want to brag or anything..... ok, yes I do.....
Was I right about the rope, or what?
Nope, it's been Ediot consistently for some time now not unless you find any evidence otherwise.
Sure..... Until he says the next good thing about AMD that is. I don't think Ed's an idiot at all, just that he doesn't like AMD so much, so I'm not surprised at the stated viewpoint of "for some time now". I guess so called "Evidence" is in the eye of the beholder.
No 4GHz Prescott
We explain why this isn't going to change the computing world from blue to green
http://www.overclockers.com/articles1123/
Is this a bad thing for Intel?
I'll tell you what would make this a bad thing for Intel. It would be a pretty bad thing for Intel if they hit a wall its competitors managed to swerve around.
If AMD were able to crank out 90nm Hammers that could do PR equivalents of 5000+ MHz, that would be pretty bad news for Intel.
Fortunately for Intel, they can't, despite the most fervent wishes of a few commentators out there.
When you're in a horse race, falling in a ditch and being unable to get out is usually pretty bad, except when everyone else falls into the ditch with you.
That's essentially the situation right now. It's pretty silly crowing about Intel not being able to make a 4GHz processor at 90nm when your champion isn't currently able to make and sell a 3800+ processor.
"No Problem?"
http://www.overclockers.com/tips00676/
In the aftermath of Intel's decision to not put out a 4.0GHz, I've repeatedly seen the comment "Unlike Intel, AMD seems to be doing fine with 90nm transition."
Excuse me? Do we share the same reality?
I'm guessing that the AMD Mod Thread's opinion of Ed, has reverted back to "Ediot" status.
Intel taps 90-nm process for integrated network processor
http://www.eet.com/semi/news/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=V44RPREW2EW2WQSNDBCSKHSCJUMEKJVN?articleId....
SAN JOSE, Calif. — Intel Corp. is leveraging its 90-nm process technology to roll out what one analyst said is the first integrated control and data plane processor. The IXP 23XX, aimed at a broad middle tier of communications access systems, will set another milestone by being the first network processor to hit prices below $100, fueling this still small but growing market sector
Some of those companies were purchased for the same amount of money it would have cost to hire a head hunter to buy the staff.
But if Craig, and the Board (read Andy) hadn't expanded, we would be fighting with emachines today to see how much money we could lose in the desktop market.
Anyway, what do you think?
I was agreeing with you up until this point. As far as the Dot Coms go, I think more like Andy Grove does. I read somewhere, that when asked for his opinion on this particular situation, he said something like..... Maybe he would have bought into those companies anyway, but if he did, he would have moved slower. If Craig had done that, instead of charging ahead full speed, he may have limited the financial damage that buying spree caused, and is still causing as far as I can tell. Also, remember, a "Headhunter" doesn't continue to drain resoutces after he's paid, and as far as the second point, it's also possible to develop avenues of expansion, in house, like intel's "TV on a chip" project, instead of trying to buy dominance by scooping up companies, that have for the most part, IMO, been draining intel's resources ever since.
Of course, on the other hand, hindsight is always 20/20
My gut feeling is that it will take 3Mb of L2 cache to turn Prescott into a desirable enough product that even private enthusiasts would want to buy.
Yeah, and that's allot of die space, when you take into account what I've read about intel's redundant cache techniques. Being able to switch bad cache to redundant cache, when the logic is otherwise functional, boosts yields significantly, but uses up more die space. Where, oh where will intel get the Fab capacity from? Oh yeah.....
I agree, in fact with their under utilised capacity and excess inventory it maybe the best way as well as dual-cores to use that capacity to spur demand to maintain their profits at the level they have become accustomed to.
I agree, I edited my previous post simultaneous to your post, in which I basically said the same thing.... Gee, so nice to have a polite conversation, don't you think?
Mark this date, IMO, Semi and mas agreed on something, disagreed on something, and both stated their opinions, while still managing to resist throwing insult bombs, or reaching out for each other's throats. I don't know if this is a once in a lifetime board event or something, but I know what kind of board I prefer reading, and this sure sounds like "Board Baseline Data" to me.
[off my soapbox, sorry]
Intel is a formidable money-making machine. If they have to end up putting 4Mb of cache on a Prescott to make it sell at a profit they will.
Maybe so, but what's more important IMO is..... IF.... IF.... they have to do that, then with their 90nm capacity...... They can. What with intel recently reporting igher then expected 90nm Prescott yields, those High Cache Pilot lots may already be running for all we know.
the overall effect on them may not be that bad.
Wow..... was that almost a compliment?
maybe because you know I tell it like, I think, it is without bias or prejudice ? . Btw here's a discussion on that Ed piece which demonstrates what I said earlier.
http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=115106466
Sure, you're right, sometimes...... Intuitive logic always triumps....... yes, even if I don't happen to like it. So, I agree with what you said previously in a posting to me, let's "all" keep the FUD to a minimum.
In any case, like most people, myself included, Ed has a bias. I don't think it so much an AMD bias, as a "Cheap/Overclockable" bias. I do agree though that AMD catches the brunt of that. So, as long as I recognize the bias, I can take the things he says with that grain of salt, just like I do when dealing with the bias's that we all run into every day. So, all I can say to the AMD complainers is, Tuff Noogies. Sometimes the limelight doesn't shine so favorably, welcome to the Big Boy Arena.
As far as the subject matter addressed, while I also agree partly with the poster's point of view, I also don't agree with the "Doom and Gloom" scenerio's being painted by some about the 4GHz cancellation, either. Like most things in life, I think it's somewhere in the middle. When I step back from the emotional part of it, I do think intel will come out stronger in the long run, going in this direction, then if they had persued the speed path. As a long term investor, that concerns me more, then any temporary embarassment "Craig" has to suffer through, for pursuing the speed path to begin with, instead of listening to Otellini (and the customers) way back when.
IMO, Craig deserves it.
I agree, you strike the right balance between tolerance and moderation
Could it be that maybe I just recognize the difference between real nastiness, and when someone is just trying to bait the moderator? Anyway, thanks, "for some reason", the compliment seems to mean more coming from you.
Barrett could piss in his pants and some people on this thread will say it is a smart decision.
Joe
Joe,
I don't think a smart INTC investor would care a crap about anything Craig says anymore. He's history, along with his "Let's Buy The Dot Com Industry" and "Speed Is King" Philosopy's. More likely the direction is now coming from Otellini...... And the direction intel has turned to recently seems to me to be more of his philosophy then Craig's. Better for INTC investors to pay more attention to what Otellini is saying from now on IMO.
Not as hard to turn an Aircraft Carrier as some thought, eh?
Not To Brag, Or Anything.......
FYI, I've been keeping "Matt" updated on my board "management" since I took over the moderation. You know, giving him the heads up on "THINGS" that have been going on with the board. Sort of a feedback review request I asked him for, on all of my removals, and for my own Moderator improvement. I also copied him on any "General PM's" I send out to a PM/cc: list I have created for INTC "Regulars".
So anyway........ if I was to brag..... which I'm not, because I wouldn't want to point out my own greatness, wonderfulness, and just all around peachy keen-ness...... Nope.... No bragging going on here..... BUT IF I WERE to brag...... I might publicly copy a PM I just received.....
Sent By: IH Admin [Matt] Date: 10/16/2004 7:42:24 PM
you're doing a great job, sir.
Shoot, did my house passageways get smaller? There doesn't seem to be as much space available now for my HEAD!
for all of Ed's faithful followers on this thread who like to hear his latest thoughts
Thanks for the link. Now, before I go over to the AMD Thread to check, let me guess.....
The "Fans" over there, are now of the opinion, that Ed is no longer a so called "Ediot", but has now magically morphed into a Brilliant Genius Of Intuitive Logic........
Right?
The Big 1-0
Oh.... I'm so happy, I'm so happy.... I'm so happy....
10 people have marked me.... or at least they have...at the moment....
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/profile.asp?User=14985
Happy Dance, Happy Dance.....
Tap Tap Tappity Tap Tap....
Boogie Boogie Boogie.... Woogie.......
Double Digits Baby..... Ohhhhhhhhhhh YeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaH
At this point, it makes a heck of a lot more sense to plan for the future.....
I think if we want to see the most likely direction for intel, we should listen to what Otellini says.....
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20040907corp.htm
The adoption of digital technology across industries means sheer processing speed must be augmented with the ability to meet a more diverse set of user needs and requirements. While continuing to drive processor performance, Intel has been expanding its focus to improve processor efficiency and also allow computer users to take better advantage of multi-tasking, security, reliability, manageability and wireless computing capabilities.
Besides, I think intel can make better use of all those engineers that have been developing for speed.... right?
Good Morning
Just thought I'd try and inject a little happiness into the board.
Ya Know?
False Statement
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=4292576
Chipguy: Care to point out where I predicted Prescott scaling?
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=4292628
Conductor
Semicon made the claim. You just jumped in with a personal attack in support.
Yuri/conductor
*************************************************************
*** Once again, I must make a correction to a False Statement. Repeating myself for the "Second Time", as I have already previously posted this to you, I made no claim whatsoever about Prescott's scaling, but specifically on the Maturity of the 90nm Process, responding to your "claim" that the 90 Process was mature. So your statement that I claimed anything about Prescott scaling is false. Please try and get your facts straight next time. Thank You.
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=4275594
Conductor: I do not. The process is mature......
Semi: I do not believe that is an accurate statement. A process is generally considered by the Manufacturing PE's, to be "mature", when the majority of the projects on their plate shift to "Cost Reduction" type projects. I would guess that intel's, and most other manufacturers 90nm processes, including IBM/AMD's, is Far from that.
IMO
Conductor Reply
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=4277573
Intel has been attempting to produce "production" Prescotts (say that five times fast) for at least a year now on 90nm. Based on the delay of 4GHz to 2005, and the "risk start" they are doing on 2MB Prescott parts, I'd say that Intel has concluded Prescott is basically done scaling up in frequency.
Yuri/conductor
Semi Reply
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=4277948
Maybe so,Maybe not, but I wasn't responding to Prescott's scaling potential, rather to the relative Maturity of the 90nm Process, which the opinion you appeared put forth, was that it is mature. IMO, it is not, so my point stands.
Intel Reveals First Entertainment PCs
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041014/145237_1.html
NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Oct. 14, 2004--In a keynote speech here today, Intel Corporation executive Robert Crooke outlined products and technology trends that will revolutionize the way people experience entertainment in their homes. The company also unveiled several of the first available Entertainment PCs.
Dilbert Desk Calender, Thursday October 14, 2004
Panel 1: Dogbert and Dilbert talking at the computer desk
Dogbert: I'd be a good Stock Market Expert
Panel 2
Dogbert: I'd buy stocks and then go on TV and recomend them so they go up
Panel 3
Dilbert: What about the fundamentals?
Dogbert: It doesn't get more fundemental then that!
He has probably eaten a bag of chips on ocassion, does
that count for anything?
Only if it means that he's full of chip
Indeed it does.
I didn't say I was always right, I leave that to other people, but I base my opinions on 12+ years of Process Improvement on semiconductor manufacturing, which includs 5 process technologies, in which I had personal hands on experience, as well as personally being responsible for transfer deliverables on the last 2 processes, from Development to High Volume Manufacturing, as well as responsability to bring all 5 Processes to "Maturity".
Remind me, what qualifications are you basing your opinions on? Just tell us, match them against mine, and I'll be OK with letting the readers of the board decide for themselves, which of us probably knows more about what they're talking about when it comes to Process Maturity.
Well, a year after reaching production status, and with Intel reaching crossover on 90nm/130nm with Prescott, I don't think there's much more "maturing" left.
Yuri/conductor
A Year in production, means not "much more maturing left"? Well, I understand now. I guess that just goes to show what some people know about Semiconductor Process Improvement, and what some people don't. Relatively speaking, IMO, a year makes it a toddler
I'd say that Intel has concluded Prescott is basically done scaling up in frequency.
Yuri/conductor
Maybe so,Maybe not, but I wasn't responding to Prescott's scaling potential, rather to the relative Maturity of the 90nm Process, which the opinion you appeared put forth, was that it is mature. IMO, it is not, so my point stands.
IBM's Kelly moved aside in chip reorganization
http://www.eet.com/semi/news/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=KV34UV4USENGWQSNDBGCKHSCJUMEKJVN?articleId....
The move follows a series of problems within IBM's chip unit. The unit continues to wrestle with its yields, but the company claims it is close to resolving those nagging issues. IBM recently disclosed a $150-million loss within its struggling semiconductor unit alone due to ongoing chip yield issues and a drop in intellectual property revenues (see May 12 story).
Ah yes, I can see how well things are going, process wise, in IBM's chip division. Good thing AMD hooked up with them, eh? I mean good for intel, that is. But hey, no worries for AMD. I have it on very "good authority" that the 65nm "will probably work right out of the shoot"
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=4271772
Anybody wanna buy a bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn?
Abit reveals Fatal1ty AA8, boards expected in stores by month-end
http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2004/10/13&pages=PR&seq=201
In an exclusive interview regarding Abit’s new gaming server, Scott Thirlwell, Abit director of marketing, released more details about the Fatal1ty AA8. He explained that the board, which has been the subject of much speculation on the Internet’s message boards, will go into mass production on Friday (October 15) and he expects the first boards to reach store shelves by the end of this month.
For the development of the Fatal1ty AA8, the real driving force behind the board was Johnathan ‘Fatal1ty’ Wendel, according to Thirlwell. Fatal1ty is touted as the world’s top professional gamer, with his latest victory at the first DOOM3 Championship held during ID Software’s Quakecon in August. Fatal1ty and his team have worked with Abit’s engineers in Taiwan and at the company’s factory in China.
The specifications for the Fatal1ty AA8 include Intel’s newest 925 series chipset, a front side bus speed of 1066Mhz, up to 4GB of dual channel DDR2-533 RAM, one PCI Express x16 graphics slot and two PCI Express x1 slots, a Gigabit port, a 10/100 Ethernet port, Intel’s Matrix storage technology on four Serial ATA (SATA) ports, support for three IEEE 1394 ports at 100/200/400 Mbps transfer rate. Specifically for case modding enthusiasts, the Fatal1ty AA8 has a total of fifteen red LEDs onboard with eight on the front and seven on the back, according to Thirlwell.
I do not. The process is mature......
I do not believe that is an accurate statement. A process is generally considered by the Manufacturing PE's, to be "mature", when the majority of the projects on their plate shift to "Cost Reduction" type projects. I would guess that intel's, and most other manufacturers 90nm processes, including IBM/AMD's, is Far from that.
IMO
Intel opens Indian software college
http://www.eet.com/semi/news/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=ZDQUYFQZB0PV2QSNDBGCKHSCJUMEKJVN?articleId...
BANGALORE, India — Intel Corp. is opening a "software college" to support India's software development community.
The facility will focus on mobility software and high- performance computing, and will be aimed at developers involved in software planning, optimization, benchmarking and overall performance. Courses also will cover processors, software technologies and operating environments.
Intel to launch E-0 stepping Nocona on October 29
http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20041012A7052.html
Intel has informed clients in Taiwan that a “Nocona” processor part fabricated using the E-0 stepping will be available on October 29. Intel customers had originally been expecting availability of the part at the end of the third quarter, according to sources at Taiwan server makers.