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merlyn.
anything else that falls into copyright managment embedded on optical media
I don't agree with the "anything else". Just the 4 components they list on the PR.
The other thing we need to watch out for is that when it comes to patents, it doesn't matter if the patent holder has the crappiest implementation of the patent and we have a superb implementation of it. If they hold the patent, then they hold the patent.
"Patents on something that doesn't protect or manage"
It looks like they are declaring patents on components that make up a product and not on a product itself. So if a label wants to include any technology covered by those patents in their copy protection solution, then they will need a license from Macro.
They may also be firing a shot across the bow of SunnComm. Did you notice this?
Licensing the VeriTOC worldwide patent family allows content owners, independent software vendors, content-protection providers and optical media manufacturers to (1) offer music CD fingerprinting; original-disc authentication; personal computer "shift key-immune" music content protection; and secure pass-through access to original CD content, and (2) embed these technologies onto the optical media of music CDs.
I don't know if SunnComm needs to be concerned, but I see two potential conflict areas from my understanding of MediaMax, original-disc authentication and personal computer "shift key-immune" music content protection.. Possibly also secure pass-through access, but I'm not sure what that is.
I think it would need someone of Vandewater's calibre who understands both Macrovision's and SunnComm's implementation of these features to clarify if there are potential issues.
It may also be that we have applications covering these areas that preceed Macro's and we may end up taking action against them.
I think the filing date is the "date of notice" on the form 144.
http://www.sec.gov/about/forms/form144.pdf
There shouldn't be any reason why a forward date can't be specified if the seller is certain that they won't sell before that date. That allows them to get the paperwork out of the way now and gives them the maximum timeframe in which to sell (within 3 months of the forward "date of notice").
The time frame for the sale is within 3 months from the filing date. It is hard to say what they are thinking. Perhaps they see a price spike coming and want to sell into it and buy back at a later stage.
If they expect a price explosion further down the track, then it would be difficult to explain why they would file to sell within 3 months.
Of course, if they expect Quiet Tiger to perform relatively better than SunnComm, then they may be selling in order to buy Quiet Tiger, if they have a maximum investment limit for both companies combined. In this case it doesn't matter how they think SunnComm is going to perform, only that they think Quiet Tiger will perform better.
twelve2061
In response to my post you said:
NeilBolton, while your statement may well end up being true...
"I'm now fully convinced that investing in QTIG is the way to go, like I have suggested before."
I'm not yet convinced this will be the case. I can't put my finger on it or put it to words, but there is something more happening here than what meets the eye.
I think I may have company in my view that Quiet Tiger is where the action is going to be.
According to last weeks filing by Quiet Tiger, JTM Investments, with 7.06% of the issued Quiet Tiger shares, is the biggest shareholder after SunnComm and Project 1000.
I don't know who JTM Investments is, but I have also noticed that they are the largest Form 144 (planned) sellers of SunnComm shares, having submitted planned sales of 6.5M SunnComm shares in the last 8 months.
http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/holdings.asp?mode=&kind=&symbol=scmi&symbol=&symbol=&s...
I wonder what they know that we don't, that they are selling SunnComm and buying Quiet Tiger?
threebabiesbusy
"Also, if you do a scmi search on the yahoo message board, their is a poster Mr. Howard Stern/alias that keeps refering to a huge announcement to come soon..if you go to his profile it indicates he's from the "Big Apple"...could he be an employee for Apple maybe?"
Do you have a link. I can't find a message board for SCMI on Yahoo.
Regarding the missing 1.7M shares owned by P1K and registered for distribution to SunnComm shareholders, a filing on 4/16/03 showed P1K's ownership as having dropped to 22,587,710 from 23,837,710. That drop of 1,250,000 shares represents Wade Carrigan's share ownership in that same filing. I don't know if they were given to him. The remaining missing 450K shares obviously went astray since 4/16/03.
That the full 23,837,710 shares were intended for distribution to SunnComm shareholders is my interpretation of this statement.
"Project 1000, Inc. is a wholly owned subsidiary of SunnComm and currently owns 23,837,710 shares of Fan Energy, which presently represents 53% of Fan Energy’s outstanding common stock. SunnComm’s Board of Directors requested that Fan Energy register the Shares following their acquisition of copy protection technology from Project 1000 in May 2002.
Fan Energy has notified SunnComm that it will immediately begin preparation of the required registration statement to be filed with the SEC, which, when declared effective, will allow Fan Energy to distribute the shares to SunnComm shareholders."
raoul
"so the 22 million qtig shares held by proj1k ARE separate from the 96mil registered to sunncomm?"
No. They are part of it.
This is a quick calc....
74,152,704 for marketing agreement and debt takeover
23,837,710 for mediacloak (held by P1K)
----------
97,990,414
-1,700,000 See Note below
----------
96,290,414 Registered for distribution
24,072,603 Distributed phase 1
----------
72,217,811 Should be left over
Currently held by today's filing
50,271,635 in SunnComm's name
22,137,710 in Project 1000's name
----------
72,409,345
Note: I can't account for the 1.7M shares missing. But they came out of P1K's holding (23,837,710 then, but 22,137,710 now). I'll check it out when I get time.
I can't also account for the 'extra' 191,534 that seems to be held now compared to what is left for distribution. Its probably some allocation that appeared in some filing or other that didn't warrant a PR.
re Project 1000
I think I can answer that. When I did DD on Quiet Tiger and SunnComm a few weeks ago I came across Project 1000. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of SunnComm and it was P1K that sold the old SunnComm Technology to Quiet Tiger (or was it Fan Energy then) for about 22M shares of Fan/qtig. So they are holding those shares on behalf of SunnComm.
What I find odd though is that sahdg3 and others have been saying that SunnComm owns nearly all of Quiet Tiger. I didn't have time to fully check that, but it is clearly wrong. The sec filing has SunnComm owning 27.53 and P1K owning 12.12%. That puts sunncomms ownership at only 39.65%. Does anyone see that differently?
I'm now fully convinced that investing in QTIG is the way to go, like I have suggested before.
"Dividends or no dividends...as SCMI shareholders, we still own QTIG whether the dividends get paid or not."
That's OK so long as the outstanding stays as it is. But if new shares are issued, your ownership in the QTIG shares is diluted. If they were distributed to you, then there is no dilution. There is also the issue of voting rights.
If the company said it will distribute the shares as a dividend, then it should do so.
sahd3g
"Last trades for SCMI and QTIG are at 7.1 cents....
This is not an accident IMO. QTIG and SCMI are the same company, same value....in time, the merger is very likely at 1 for 1.
"
I can't see what you are getting at here. It doesn't matter that QTIG and SCMI momentarily share the same price as the outstanding is vastly different.
Same value? No. At the same share price SCMI is being valued 3 times that of QTIG as it has 3 times as many shares issued.
IMO what you are seeing is QTIG share price overtaking that of SunnComm and will continue until it is close to 3 times that of SunnComm. Then the companies will be the same value (market cap) which is only right since they share 50% of the same revenue stream.
The fact that SunnComm owns the technology and Quiet Tiger doesn't is probably balanced by the fact Quiet Tiger reports and SunnComm doesn't.
I expect the QTIG SP to eventually equal 3 X SCMI SP, assuming no dramatic change in the OS of either.
Pending patents...
Thanks. Are there more in the works?
So, does SunnComm have patents on their technology? I can't find any listed in the USPTO DB.
What patents?
I asked that on the QTIG board and no one answered. What patents does SCMI have?
"besides, if you own SCMI, you also own QTIG"
Not after the remaining 3 dividend distributions take place. Then SunnComm only owns a miniscule amount of QTIG by my calcs.
"Good luck trading QTIG....very poor liquidity"
Ah, but that is only temporary and related to the dividend. QTIG has relatively poor liquidity because SunnComm holds much of the shares and they cannot be traded because they are to be used in the dividend distribution.
Once the remaining 3 dividends are distributed, almost all QTIG shares will be in individuals hands and can be traded. With their rights to 50% of revenue and exclusive rights to MediaMax, then I cannot see why the 150M or so QTIG shares shouldn't trade for at least 3 times the value of each of the 450M SCMI shares. They will have 3 times the revenue per share and on top of that they will have the lesser costs (so more EPS) as marketing costs should not even come close to development costs (since it looks like almost all the majors are on board - so at least 80% of the market is potentially in the bag already). Also being fully reporting, there is less risk attached to QTIG. All in all, I think QTIG = Mininum 3 X SCMI is not unrealistic.
Quiet Tiger to take over SunnComm?
I don't want to buy into the basher/pumper argument that is going on here, but one thing that STEHSUCKER has said that appears to be correct is that Quiet Tiger may take over SunnComm. I have found this audio presentation that Quiet Tiger gave at Catalyst Financial Resources Special Situations Roadshow.
It was done last May, but in it Bill Whitmore of Quiet Tiger made these statements:
1. The reason behind Quiet Tiger was to "develop a platform for a fully reporting company and then move to the AMEX"
2. By having SunnComm non-reporting means they "do not have to disclose their developpment agenda and who they do business with" (I would dispute that as their are no requirements to disclose such information).
3. Quiet Tiger has an option to purchase any product SunnComm develops.
4. "Quiet Tiger ultimately has an option to buy the whole SunnComm division and move it into Quiet Tiger"
5. Some here have said the Sony's Key2Audio may be MediaMax. But Whitmore described Key2Audio as a competitive product developed in Austria.
Listen to it here:
http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/confLobby.zhtml?ticker=QTIG&item_id=882477
What I don't understand is how Quiet Tiger could accomplish the purchase, as it has so little resources according to its most recent filings. I assume it would have to be some sort of share deal, where Quiet Tiger issues a heap of shares that are given to SunnComm shareholders on an X/1 basis.
I do believe it vindicates what I have been saying, that Quiet Tiger is the better buy due to its much lower outstanding. Advantages to SunnComm of owning the technology wouldn't apply with the takeover as the plan.
Quiet Tiger to take over SunnComm?
I don't want to buy into the basher/pumper argument that is going on here, but one thing that STEHSUCKER has said that appears to be correct is that Quiet Tiger may take over SunnComm. I have found this audio presentation that Quiet Tiger gave at Catalyst Financial Resources Special Situations Roadshow.
It was done last May, but in it Bill Whitmore of Quiet Tiger made these statements:
1. The reason behind Quiet Tiger was to "develop a platform for a fully reporting company and then move to the AMEX"
2. By having SunnComm non-reporting means they "do not have to disclose their developpment agenda and who they do business with" (I would dispute that as their are no requirements to disclose such information).
3. Quiet Tiger has an option to purchase any product SunnComm develops.
4. "Quiet Tiger ultimately has an option to buy the whole SunnComm division and move it into Quiet Tiger"
5. Some here have said the Sony's Key2Audio may be MediaMax. But Whitmore described Key2Audio as a competitive product developed in Austria.
Listen to it here:
http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/confLobby.zhtml?ticker=QTIG&item_id=882477
What I don't understand is how Quiet Tiger could accomplish the purchase, as it has so little resources according to its most recent filings. I assume it would have to be some sort of share deal, where Quiet Tiger issues a heap of shares that are given to SunnComm shareholders on an X/1 basis.
I do believe it vindicates what I have been saying, that Quiet Tiger is the better buy due to its much lower outstanding. Advantages to SunnComm of owning the technology wouldn't apply with the takeover as the plan.
He worked for Macrovision? Is that what you mean?
What did he do?
Who is Edward Felten?
Are these the skeletons you are talking about?
I found them when looking for SEC filings but didn't want to post here as I don't know the background of that web site. Are these just basher allegations or do they have substance?
http://www.our-street.com/SEC-SunnComm4.htm
I'm sorry, but where did you see the company forcast $5.8 million in revenue?
I saw a forecast of 145M CDs at a price of less than 0.05 cents a CD. I have been studying Quiet Tiger in detail because it reports and I see an average price of around 1.5 cents, which is "less than 0.05 cents".
Until the company explicitly forecasts revenue, I think it safe to assume revenue will be $2.175M. The way Quiet Tiger does its accounting, the 1.5 cents looks like the combined revenue per CD, so SunnComm's take is $1.3M.
That is a lot less than Shazamstock's forecast, which initially got me interested in this stock. I still believe it has potential to eventually earn maybe $10M+ p.a. and justify a share price of 30 to 50 cents. That is close to a 10 bagger in my books (at least for Quiet Tiger), so that makes the stock attractive.
However, we should be careful to not assume something that was not forecasted. To reiterate, SunnComm forecasted 145M CDs at a price of less than 0.05 cents a CD, not $5.8M in revenue. $5.8M in revenue was your forecast.
Interesting, but a question:
"Here too SunnComm is subject to special restrictions that derive from the fact that SunnComm’s parent company Quiet Tiger is a reporting, filing company."
How is Quiet Tiger SunnComm's parent company?
Is that being sarcastic? Why the ROTFLMAO?
Even if its a bad review that doesn't mean anything. It depends on where the reviewer is coming from. Is he pro-hacking or against. Do you think a member of EFF would ever give a good review of a copy protection product?
Why is that a reply to my post?
Looking at Macrovision's agreement, it is with Universal Studios Home Entertainment, so I can't see why that would have anything to do with music. Universal Music Group is the music division of Universal.
I can't see how MediaMax has P2P covered.
I've read the specifications and it is just CD/DVD copy protection. In the past CD copy protection was touted as also prevented P2P as there was no alternative. But trying to prevent P2P by inhibiting ripping on the CD was always ineffective. It only takes one to succeed in breaking the protection and then the tracks are all over the place. You need a product that attacks P2P on the servers that support it and products like Loudeye appear to be somewhat successful.
Touting MediaMax as a P2P prevention tech brings to mind the saying if you only have a hammer, then everything looks like a nail. Its simply the wrong tool for the job.
On a related question (I probably should ask this on the QTIG board, but its dead there), I understand that QTIG has an exclusive marketing agreement for MediaMax, but is it also allowed market other products? If it finds a P2P product from another source that could complement MediaMax, can it market it. Is SunnComm's control of Quiet Tiger so tight that it can prevent it offering non SunnComm products?
I don't want to offend anyone here, but my calculations on the returns from their exclusive deal with MediaMax makes Quiet Tiger underpriced in comparison to SunnComm based on shares outstanding and cross ownership. Added to that, there is the added comfort that Quiet Tiger is reporting. I see Quiet Tiger being a very attractive proposition if it can source the best technology from whatever company it chooses. MediaMax as a P2P tech does not cut ice IMO, even if it may be the best at preventing CD copying.
I've asked this on the QTIG board, but nobody answered. Does Quiet Tiger have a P2P product to market, either from SunnComm or from another tech supplier. By P2P I mean a product like Loudeye (it seems the Hawkeye you mentioned may be similar tech).
P2P is really what worries the labels today and I can't see how Quiet Tiger (or SunnComm for that matter) could dominate the music anti-piracy space without such a product. It looks like SunnComm have the best CD (DVD too maybe?) copy protection solution, but that is only 20% of the equation. It can't stop P2P piracy unless it can guarantee almost 100% proof against ripping, but from what I read even SunnComm claims it is just a speed bump.
Two more questions.
After some further research, I'm still unable to find information on the following.
What is Quiet Tiger's P2P protection product. The website and that of SunnComm lists only MediaMax and that only provides protection against ripping and copying CDs. But I can't find a product that attacks P2P networks. I am thinking in terms of an equivalent to Loudeye. P2P is really what worries the labels and CD copy protection has proved useless in that area as only one CD needs to be successfully ripped to feed the multitude of P2P networks.
What patents back up MediaMax and any associated products Quiet Tiger has rights to?
"The combined revenue". I was hoping that wouldn't be the case. So SunnComm's revenue (and also Quiet Tiger's) is projected to be only 50% of that shown (not bad in its own right, but means the SP should only be half what I reckon it will go to). Shazamstocks should have picked up on that.
"However when you own SCMI you get a QTIG dividend"
I see that now that I have read some more PRs. But it seems to me that when the 3 remaining dividends are distributed, SunnComm will only own about 10M QTIG shares (I may be out on that).
That would still make QTIG a much better buy than SCMI as it gets half the revenue and going by your post, it has only 1/3 the shares outstanding.
Long term (assuming it remains the exclusive marketer on the same terms) it should be worth 3 X SCMI.
BTW, why are Pinksheets and NASDAQ both showing 200M shares for SCMI. Management should update them asap to insure the market is properly informed.
I read the profile on SunnComm (SCMI) on shazamstocks and following further research discovered that SunnComm split revenues 50/50 with Quiet Tiger or will after the threshhold.
Have anyone here read the shazamstocks profile?
http://www.shazamstocks.com/profiles/scmi/markets.htm
If so I have a few questions.
The market profile shows revenue projections for SCMI of $52M by 2008. Are these the combined revenues of SCMI and QTIG or should be expect QTIG to also earn similar revenue of $52M (2008) as there doesn't seem to be a time limit to the agreement.
Which is the best buy. I know SCMI owns some of QTIG (not sure how much yet), but according to Pinksheets SCMI have 200M shares issued and QTIG just 150M. On that basis, QTIG seems to me the better buy.