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Hey Ernie, thanks for the PM. Good board, I will definitely add this to my list
I appreciate all the feedback. I'm actually still holding. I was going to sell that evening, but missed the chance at the end of the day. Almost wish I did cause it went down yet again today.
I can't describe it, but something is telling me to keep holding for awhile. I know it's a huge risk to do it, but I told myself, I'm already down huge, what's the difference anyways. Yah, i could save myself a few thousand, but I will also kick myself if this thing bounces back to where I bought in at and didn't wait a few extra days, or weeks, or even months.
It's a pipe dream to think it will go above $1, but I'm not looking for that BIG of a bounce. If it gets to the .30s, I will be happy enough to recoup most and can get out then. If I have to wait for another month or so, then so be it.
I've been waiting on the financials to come out, but they haven't. Was thinking yesterday they would be out, but doesn't appear to be so. Not sure if this is result of them being in BK status and they are delaying it, or what. Another thought is they had a good quarter and that "may" hinder their BK status filing. I'm not sure, I may be over thinking it.
My "gut" is mostly correct with a lot of things. So I think I will just go ahead and keep holding for now. I don't think it matters too much where I go to invest anyways, most everything is going down. You think you get in a safe company and then BK happens, or they dont' meet their numbers, etc.
It's tough to say, but I think holding for now is best. Sad part is, yah, it may even go down as far as .05 or even .02. I'm hopeful to keep waiting and it pops up higher. To me getting it back to the .30s is "realistic" as appose to $1 to $2. That's all I'm really hoping for, the .30s. Im not trying to be greedy.
Once again, many thanks for all the great tips and information. It is always appreciated!
-Frank
not sure if anyone saw my earlier post....
Hey LongBall, you still holding?
If so, can you share the wisdom why you are choosing to hold?
I'm just curious if everyone says that with BK its never going to go up and they won't return the money to current shareholders
Here is a side question for you (and for anyone else). Why would PCX go from PCX to PCXCQ and still offer to sell shares, if they don't plan on either providing new shares, or get the stock price to go back up to recover, or offer money back to current share holders/investors.
You would think that since they are in BK, they would close out of everything after a few days. Say "we filed BK, all stock will be removed in 30 days". This way you can get out with what you have.
Why delay this if thats what they are going to do? Better ya, why even give a chance to offer to sell it if that's what they are going to do.
What happens if it looks like they are about to come out of BK and reform everything. And someone, who doesn't know this, buys a lot of shares of the stock, and the next day they say "ok, its all gone, sorry. we are now PXX."
makes no sense to keep offering the stock to buy if that's what is going to happen
I had hopes it would jump the 800% or higher and get back to the $1 to $2 range. I still think it "can" if the tide turns. Like many of you seen before with other BK stocks, you would think this can still happen. Considering the 500 million that they have to support this, its also in a much better position than the other BK stocks mentioned
Hey LongBall, you still holding?
If so, can you share the wisdom why you are choosing to hold?
I'm just curious if everyone says that with BK its never going to go up and they won't return the money to current shareholders
Here is a side question for you (and for anyone else). Why would PCX go from PCX to PCXCQ and still offer to sell shares, if they don't plan on either providing new shares, or get the stock price to go back up to recover, or offer money back to current share holders/investors.
You would think that since they are in BK, they would close out of everything after a few days. Say "we filed BK, all stock will be removed in 30 days". This way you can get out with what you have.
Why delay this if thats what they are going to do? Better ya, why even give a chance to offer to sell it if that's what they are going to do.
What happens if it looks like they are about to come out of BK and reform everything. And someone, who doesn't know this, buys a lot of shares of the stock, and the next day they say "ok, its all gone, sorry. we are now PXX."
makes no sense to keep offering the stock to buy if that's what is going to happen
I had hopes it would jump the 800% or higher and get back to the $1 to $2 range. I still think it "can" if the tide turns. Like many of you seen before with other BK stocks, you would think this can still happen. Considering the 500 million that they have to support this, its also in a much better position than the other BK stocks mentioned
Yeah, that makes the most sense and how they can get it approved
I saw they were suing the places that didn't buy the coal like they were supposed to. Wonder if those places are filing BK protection so they can get out of those deals with Patriot
What happens if they win the law suit and get that money (that's a big IF). Will that really help Patriot, or just stop the temp bleeding
Its funny you mention that. I was going to ask if the courts could deny them the BK filing because they are doing just fine and not having that bad of a problem. yes, they aren't as profitable as they want to be, but filing for BK to:
#1. buy more time
#2. be able to reorganize cheaper
#3. get rid of the unions and not have to try and pay for all of the retirees
So that being said, what would happen IF the judge comes back at some point and says the filing for BK is invalid and it gets denied. They are back OUT of BK filing status.
Does that make the stock do anything other than what it is?
Do they get back on NYSE?
Lots of questions. I agree, they just need more time and it will be heading in the right direction. Especially if we get rid of Obama, and we all know Republican in the office will do the right thing as this country was built with coal, and it's our nations back bone.
Your stats further point this out and confirm it. Yes we will need clean energy and we will, but we are still going to need coal for another 10+ years before everything else is perfected, efficient, and not as expensive.
yeah, we've been watching all the charts and other stuff. We all feel the same way, but have yet to see it do anything
the consensus is that this isn't going to be going anywhere except down.
Interested in your opinion as to when you think this will pop. Majority is that this will never happen.
would be nice for it to be $5.5, but that's a pipe dream
getting it to 1.25 is also another dream, but one I thought should have happened or close to happening
Are you looking for it to get to that level, or only doing the typical 10% or higher.
I hope it pops for everyone. Most on here are great and kind people that deserve it. I'm going to be a "cheerleader" for it, that's for sure.
feel free to hit me up PM if you don't want to post anything that you don't want others to see. Sorry I have a free account so I won't be able to fully respond
thanks
so why is it .13 a share and hasn't been bumped above $1?
and when do you foresee it being bumped past the $1 or get close to it?
lots of people saying it, but not much going on, nor any sign its going to go that route.
many others are saying all that money is going to end up to debtors, creditors, and lawyers.
curious to hear your thoughts
yes, agreed, all good points.
I think the good news is I'm out, so the price should definitely go up
That happened to me a few weeks ago. I got in at 1.22, got out at 1.02 because I thought it was due to the BK again and was going to fall flat. Next thing I know a week later, it was at 2.50. So I definitely missed out on that
So now I'm out, it should do go up. haha. how funny how that works
oh well. I hope this goes up and people get the chance to be in a better situation than we are in now.
I'm going to still watch this board so i can keep learning more about BK stocks. I need to really educate myself more on this, as well as many other stocks. So this way I don't make the same mistake in the future
thanks again
thanks lostBall. You really help keep me in this and help me keep sane and keep waiting to be patient. you're a very good person and greatful for all your input
Thanks Stanner. I figured it will be getting worse and worse
What do you mean by in 6 weeks. Is that when the crap really hits the fan?
thanks for all the feedback. This is why I'm out. I'm not looking for a fairy tale ending, or someone to lie to me. I appreciate the honesty and all that jazz.
Because of it, then there is no point in keep holding if its all going to be taken away and I then have 0 in a few months
looks like unions aren't the only ones who are going to get screwed
good posts arigold0702, much appreciated
please keep us posted if you see any of these documents. I know some of us were figuring this will be back in the $1 to $1.50 range within the month, but so far, it doesn't look like it. I would like to see a big gap up for a lot of this.
If you see any other reports from the other places, please share those as well. Would be very nice to have it at the $2.50 to $5 range. This way good faithful investors like sam and others can get their money back
thanks!
Well, someone needs to tell everyone else and the PPS because it's falling again. Already down almost 10% this morning.
Question is, when is it going to gap up and get to the .50s or higher to reflect the 500 million
let me know when it's above $1
Yes, I have a feeling this is what PCX is trying to do, in order for them to be profitable, they need to get rid of the unions and all the people bleeding them dry.
When my father did that when he worked for the phone company for almost 30 years, they did a buyout package for his retirement, so this way they didn't have to worry about him for the rest of his life. My father was in the union at the time.
This could be what they are going to try and do. Get rid of the unions, perhaps do a buyout or something where they put funds in an account for current retirees and that's it. They won't have to be associated with them anymore and can move on. Maybe in a perfect world they would do that, so who knows
Excellent point on this one, fung. I had an adoptive grand parents (my mom's adoptive parents) that worked at a Woolworth's for almost 30 years. When they went under, they pretty much lost their jobs and all those years towards retirement was pretty much destroyed.
They live in a trailer park in Reno NV area. Very sad.
Hope this isn't the case. I know I will lose my money, but its not fair for those who work hard. Unions or not, its not fair for them that have worked so many years and have health issues due to working in the coal mines.
Agreed. They deserve what they worked for and put in all the hard work. I would hate to see them lose it all, no health, retirement, etc.
And of course, they are going to get free health care...but they still end up having to pay for it when most of their retirement will be used to pay for it
and what does that mean?
Who said I didn't accept the answer. Its an answer put out for ALL BK companies. It's a generic answer to cover the company in case that all of it turns to crap. Before they emerge, we know that will happen. All of that goes away and they start all over with new ones
I know they can't come right out directly and say "yes, you should sell" or "no, don't sell, we are going to be working with upper management, board of directors, and other places to find some way to compensate current common stock holders"
Duhhh, we know they won't say anything of that sort. It was a long shot to just send an email to just see what they would say, that's pretty much it.
Yeah, I think that since they do have their skin in the game, they definitely not going to go down without compensation of their own.
We will never know. I'm assuming all the stuff they put in the FAQ is just to cover all legality of the situation. In the event that it happens, they are covered
yeah, that was the response I was expecting. I figured they were going to come back with just "you need to read the FAQ" and that was it. I didn't expect something more to it than that. I did reply and thanked them for taking time to get back to me. I also asked if they had anything else to share that was "legal", to please do so. It may be another week before I hear back, but I thought it was good to have some sort of response
Yes, excellent point. This has been a major reason why I haven't said "screw this" and sell out. I figured we were going to take some hits, but not this bad.
Like you mentioned, 500 million is the key. I don't think lawyers are going to eat all of that up. It would take a year of 24x7 lawyers and judges wouldn't like that anyways
I'll keep holding on, just looking for feedback. Much appreciated!
LostBall, Stanner, Blue, opinions on this comment?
i'm not bailing yet, but the trend does seem to be going down and down. I do admit that I agree that I've seen a larger assets vs liabilities, but this is definitely interesting to say the least.
I know some are still holding. The bonds are still doing very well, but price is not following. Although, its tough for the price to follow the bond theory when you have a huge sell off vs buying. Perhaps when all the selling is done, there will be room for the buying to increase PPS.
looking for thoughts, opinions, etc.
thanks for sharing
guess we will find out if you're right this week or next. just see how good you are
Interesting. I think you have a very good point. I have a feeling it wasn't really that the banks didn't want to refinance, I think they were probably going to screw over PCX with an insane interest rate. PCX said hell no, then things went all to hell and then PCX said "screw this, Stock has already dumped since the rumor began anyways, lets play the BK card".
So you are definitely on to something there.
I'm still hopeful that the major places that financed are going to put pressure to get something in return, or file law suits and they have lawyers, and we don't.
Guess we will see. I never saw any update from today's meeting yet. The Aug 2nd will be the final one I believe
I figure I'm going to keep holding until then, maybe longer. I've already lost a ton, won't matter much anyways.
yeah, I'm losing my @$$ on this already, but holding on thinking it will go up a bit higher. I'm prob not in as high as you or many others, but still down anyways
Actually, are you still in? If so, you waiting for it to climb back up?
I know once they get out of BK it starts all over, but that's not for another 9 months to a year from now. Even if its as quick as 6 months (we know it won't), I don't plan on holding this that long. I'll be out way before then.
who else is still holding?
If you don't want to say, its cool. I figure if others are holding, there is a logical reason, other than "I'm hoping it goes way up".
I also agree. If they give the common share holders the big "shaft" and get screwed big time, then IF they do get out of BK and try all over again with new stock, I know I will do everything I can to tell everyone that may look to buy the new stock to NOT do it and inform them of all the bad tactics they did. Pretty much do anything to tarnish the company and make sure no one buys into it, bash it bad
thanks
Finally received an email reply from Patriot Coal. Looks like what I figured, nothing really much to go on.
Frank,
I understand you had a question about the value of Patriot Coal stock.
Please see the excerpt below from our Frequently Asked Questions available at our website, www.patriotcoal.com.
Regarding stockholder representation, I don’t believe that bankruptcy court proceedings provide for a shareholder committee. An unsecured creditors committee was formed last week that will oversee our reorganization plan and make recommendations to the bankruptcy court.
Janine Orf
Vice President – Investor Relations
Patriot Coal Corporation
What will happen to the Patriot common stock that I own? Will I receive any compensation if the stock is cancelled?
At this time, we do not know what will happen to Patriot’s common stock as a result of the Chapter 11 reorganization. Typically, the common stock of a company in Chapter 11 is cancelled upon its emergence from the reorganization process and stockholders usually receive no value for any common stock they still hold at that time.
Should I sell my Patriot common stock now?
We are not in a position to offer investment advice. At this time, we do not know what will happen to Patriot’s common stock as a result of the Chapter 11 reorganization. Typically, the common stock of a company in Chapter 11 is cancelled upon its emergence from the reorganization process and stockholders usually receive no value for any common stock they still hold at that time.
Thanks Blue. We've actually posted this on here a few times already. If you have the updated results of the meeting that is happening today, that would help out greatly
that would be nice, but tough seeing how it keeps tanking every day 10 to 20%. Hope you know something we don't
Nice. Looking for the typical 10%, or you think this is going to blow up?
opinions?
Understood, that definitely makes a lot more sense. I can understand how they want to be taken care of first. Hopefully it will fall to the other company and we don't get fully screwed out of it
Understood, that would make sense then.
My apologies. I didn't mean that you mentioned it. I saw that Stanner put that in the post. I've seen Stanner mention that a few times. I figure maybe you knew why it was being mentioned if it moved there.
I "thought" if it moved to WV, it would be good for the Unions AND good for the share holder.
I was just replying to your post about the earlier mentioned by Stanner. My bad
Hopefully this will go well and help the stock rebound. I'm completely shocked that its down over 20% today. Was thinking this was going to be in the .30s or higher by now. Makes no sense how this keeps dropping
so why is it "game over" if it's moved to WV? Game over for who?
Yeah, it's tough to say. As someone pointed out, it was a huge amount of selling compared to buying.
Buyers 7/22/12 bought 12,129,778
Sellers 7/22/12 sold 72,014,431
So that being said, that's just on 7/22/12. Who knows who is selling and buying, and who is "holding" that was already existing.
if the major banks and financial places are still in it, then that's still a good sign. We know they won't go down without a fight
as always, thanks for sharing the info. I hope it does follow soon. Sad to see it not following.
I think many others have a good point, some are just now seeing it's in BK status, or major financial places are dumping shares, and other factors that keep pushing it down with the selling
hopefully when they are all done selling, it will have a chance to climb back up. Not going to be able to climb if the selling is out numbering the buying 6 to 1 or higher
hopefully after those huge big block sell offs, we may have a chance to creep back up
yeah, I would appreciate that if you can provide more info that I can better understand. I'm only seeing 1 sentence long replies, and not much to go on.
trying to better understand this, but I'm apparently not following very well
so you're saying that the SP (share price?) is fluctuating because we don't want the union to have it in WV? Or am I not understanding this correctly?
From what I'm guessing from what you say is if the Union wins and it gets moved from NY to WV, then the price will go way down? But if it stays in NY, it will go back up?
If that is the case, I guess I'm not understanding why that is. I would think we would want the union to have the advantage.
I REALLY need to study this up more
thanks in advance for any and all info