Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Brent I read that and while it was nice, to be honest it is meaningless at this point. Jim needs to get this stock back on the pinks and release those audited numbers that will reflect the share structure and earnings. At this point I don't see anything else mattering.
Smartmoney77
Brent I read that and while it was nice, to be honest it is meaningless at this point. Jim needs to get this stock back on the pinks and release those audited numbers that will reflect the share structure and earnings. At this point I don't see anything else mattering.
Smartmoney77
I agree that it is strange but I think she is way off if she thinks that protects her from lying. Too many people have called and had her verify shares in that manner. So I do find it hard to believe that she is lying becasue of that.
If you call the TA and tell her the share count that is on the website 700 million O/S and 200 million float and ask if that is accurate she will say yes and she will say that it is accurate. At least she did when I called and several others. When I call and ask for the share structure on another day she refers me to the company.
I really don't see the difference or why she does it like that but that is what she does. Unless her instructions have changed or if she feels she has less liability like that.
If you call and ask for the share structure she refers you to the company. If you call and give her the share structure that is on the website and ask if the share structure on the website is accurate she says yes.
OK Good Luck.
I agree. We are just using our buying power here to get some things verified.
That would be very nice on every automobile not to mention every computer.
I agree I just want verification at this point.
mordicai, Thanks again for posting those statutes and for all of your valuable insight.
I think if he doesn't produce them in two weeks, maybe four weeks, he may have a problem on his hands.
Right with 5% of the O/S a individual or group can only look at shareholder information. 15% you can see everything. The is no problem with either number. At this point it is just an issue of giving JP a little time to deliver. OK hopefully we go on pinks this week.
No it is 5% of the O/S to see shareholder records. 15% of the O/s to see all records including contracts bank statements etc. If you look at my previous post to Brent I included both statutes at the end. Liquid and I alone have the 5% A small group of larger shareholders have the 15% if Jim doesn't deliver in a timely fashion which I expect that he will. Either number can be a group of investors.
Hold off. You don't have 5%. It is 5% of the O/S to see shareholder records 15% of the O/S to see all documents. That would be 35 million to see shareholder records 105 million to see all documents. You and I alone basically have the 5%. We'll talk about it later in the week and only through PM's..
Yes it does. Nevada law. 5% of the O/S and you can see shareholder records 15% and you can see all records.
Posted by: mordicai
In reply to: None Date:2/7/2007 6:23:51 PM
Post #of 446
Nevada Law. If you can muster 15% from the holdings on this board, you could demand that the purchase order and related documents, and bank deposits , etc. be produced for inspection, instead of taking the chance that this thing drags on and on.
NRS 78.257 Right of stockholders to inspect, copy and audit financial records; exceptions; civil and criminal liability; penalty.
1. Any person who has been a stockholder of record of any corporation and owns not less than 15 percent of all of the issued and outstanding shares of the stock of such corporation or has been authorized in writing by the holders of at least 15 percent of all its issued and outstanding shares, upon at least 5 days’ written demand, is entitled to inspect in person or by agent or attorney, during normal business hours, the books of account and all financial records of the corporation, to make copies of records, and to conduct an audit of such records. Holders of voting trust certificates representing 15 percent of the issued and outstanding shares of the corporation are regarded as stockholders for the purpose of this subsection. The right of stockholders to inspect the corporate records may not be limited in the articles or bylaws of any corporation.
2. All costs for making copies of records or conducting an audit must be borne by the person exercising his rights set forth in subsection 1.
3. The rights authorized by subsection 1 may be denied to any stockholder upon his refusal to furnish the corporation an affidavit that such inspection, copies or audit is not desired for any purpose not related to his interest in the corporation as a stockholder. Any stockholder or other person, exercising rights set forth in subsection 1, who uses or attempts to use information, records or other data obtained from the corporation, for any purpose not related to the stockholder’s interest in the corporation as a stockholder, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.
4. If any officer or agent of any corporation keeping records in this State willfully neglects or refuses to permit an inspection of the books of account and financial records upon demand by a person entitled to inspect them, or refuses to permit an audit to be conducted, as provided in subsection 1, the corporation shall forfeit to the State the sum of $100 for every day of such neglect or refusal, and the corporation, officer or agent thereof is jointly and severally liable to the person injured for all damages resulting to him.
5. A stockholder who brings an action or proceeding to enforce any right set forth in this section or to recover damages resulting from its denial:
(a) Is entitled to costs and reasonable attorney’s fees, if he prevails; or
(b) Is liable for such costs and fees, if he does not prevail,
Ê in the action or proceeding.
6. Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, the provisions of this section do not apply to any corporation that furnishes to its stockholders a detailed, annual financial statement or any corporation that has filed during the preceding 12 months all reports required to be filed pursuant to section 13 or section 15(d) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. A person who owns, or is authorized in writing by the owners of, at least 15 percent of the issued and outstanding shares of the stock of a corporation that has elected to be governed by subchapter S of the Internal Revenue Code and whose shares are not listed or traded on any recognized stock exchange is entitled to inspect the books of the corporation pursuant to subsection 1 and has the rights, duties and liabilities provided in subsections 2 to 5, inclusive.
(Added to NRS by 1971, 863; A 1977, 659; 1997, 3092; 2001, 1368, 3199; 2003, 3092)
Public Reply | Private Reply | UnKeep | Last Read
Hi Brent,
First, let me say I have done extensive DD here. Let me also say that I sincerly hope that Jim Plant and Cyberkey are on the up and up. Even doing DD so much of it does depend on this not being an instance of fraud.
In Jim's proccess of screening people he has made the big mistake of avoiding speaking to his larger shareholders while granting access to his smaller ones. Big mistake IMO since those are the people with the resources to see this to fruition.
He has a limited ammount of time to provide worthwhile audited financials that reflect an accurate share structure that is published on the website at the current moment.
I really don't want to have to make a trip to Utah but if I do I will not be alone and I will be going through all of thier documents including bank statements, purchase orders, contracts, shareholder information etc. and the law is on my side.
Again, I have not learned anything new that could cause me to believe that this is a case of fraud but Jim's seeming lack of concern in addressing his larger shareholders concerns is disconcerting and if he doesn't produce audited numbers quickly the issue may be forced. Fraud simply is not an option here.
I probably will not be making public posts while we are on the greys since there is no point. I look forward to seeing CKYS back on the pinks and the audited financials to be released shortly and for the price per share to soar as it is likely that this is simply a case of poor communication on Mr. Plants part.
Best Regards,
Smartmoney77
NRS 78.257 Right of stockholders to inspect, copy and audit financial records; exceptions; civil and criminal liability; penalty.
1. Any person who has been a stockholder of record of any corporation and owns not less than 15 percent of all of the issued and outstanding shares of the stock of such corporation or has been authorized in writing by the holders of at least 15 percent of all its issued and outstanding shares, upon at least 5 days’ written demand, is entitled to inspect in person or by agent or attorney, during normal business hours, the books of account and all financial records of the corporation, to make copies of records, and to conduct an audit of such records. Holders of voting trust certificates representing 15 percent of the issued and outstanding shares of the corporation are regarded as stockholders for the purpose of this subsection. The right of stockholders to inspect the corporate records may not be limited in the articles or bylaws of any corporation.
2. All costs for making copies of records or conducting an audit must be borne by the person exercising his rights set forth in subsection 1.
3. The rights authorized by subsection 1 may be denied to any stockholder upon his refusal to furnish the corporation an affidavit that such inspection, copies or audit is not desired for any purpose not related to his interest in the corporation as a stockholder. Any stockholder or other person, exercising rights set forth in subsection 1, who uses or attempts to use information, records or other data obtained from the corporation, for any purpose not related to the stockholder’s interest in the corporation as a stockholder, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.
4. If any officer or agent of any corporation keeping records in this State willfully neglects or refuses to permit an inspection of the books of account and financial records upon demand by a person entitled to inspect them, or refuses to permit an audit to be conducted, as provided in subsection 1, the corporation shall forfeit to the State the sum of $100 for every day of such neglect or refusal, and the corporation, officer or agent thereof is jointly and severally liable to the person injured for all damages resulting to him.
5. A stockholder who brings an action or proceeding to enforce any right set forth in this section or to recover damages resulting from its denial:
(a) Is entitled to costs and reasonable attorney’s fees, if he prevails; or
(b) Is liable for such costs and fees, if he does not prevail,
Ê in the action or proceeding.
6. Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, the provisions of this section do not apply to any corporation that furnishes to its stockholders a detailed, annual financial statement or any corporation that has filed during the preceding 12 months all reports required to be filed pursuant to section 13 or section 15(d) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. A person who owns, or is authorized in writing by the owners of, at least 15 percent of the issued and outstanding shares of the stock of a corporation that has elected to be governed by subchapter S of the Internal Revenue Code and whose shares are not listed or traded on any recognized stock exchange is entitled to inspect the books of the corporation pursuant to subsection 1 and has the rights, duties and liabilities provided in subsections 2 to 5, inclusive.
(Added to NRS by 1971, 863; A 1977, 659; 1997, 3092; 2001, 1368, 3199; 2003, 3092)
--------------------------------------------------------------
NRS 78.105 Maintenance of records at registered office; inspection and copying of records; civil liability; penalties.
1. A corporation shall keep a copy of the following records at its registered office:
(a) A copy certified by the Secretary of State of its articles of incorporation, and all amendments thereto;
(b) A copy certified by an officer of the corporation of its bylaws and all amendments thereto; and
(c) A stock ledger or a duplicate stock ledger, revised annually, containing the names, alphabetically arranged, of all persons who are stockholders of the corporation, showing their places of residence, if known, and the number of shares held by them respectively. In lieu of the stock ledger or duplicate stock ledger, the corporation may keep a statement setting out the name of the custodian of the stock ledger or duplicate stock ledger, and the present and complete mailing or street address where the stock ledger or duplicate stock ledger specified in this section is kept.
2. Any person who has been a stockholder of record of a corporation for at least 6 months immediately preceding his demand, or any person holding, or thereunto authorized in writing by the holders of, at least 5 percent of all of its outstanding shares, upon at least 5 days’ written demand is entitled to inspect in person or by agent or attorney, during usual business hours, the records required by subsection 1 and make copies therefrom. Holders of voting trust certificates representing shares of the corporation must be regarded as stockholders for the purpose of this subsection. Every corporation that neglects or refuses to keep the records required by subsection 1 open for inspection, as required in this subsection, shall forfeit to the State the sum of $25 for every day of such neglect or refusal.
3. If any corporation willfully neglects or refuses to make any proper entry in the stock ledger or duplicate copy thereof, or neglects or refuses to permit an inspection of the records required by subsection 1 upon demand by a person entitled to inspect them, or refuses to permit copies to be made therefrom, as provided in subsection 2, the corporation is liable to the person injured for all damages resulting to him therefrom.
4. When the corporation keeps a statement in the manner provided for in paragraph (c) of subsection 1, the information contained thereon must be given to any stockholder of the corporation demanding the information, when the demand is made during business hours. Every corporation that neglects or refuses to keep a statement available, as in this subsection required, shall forfeit to the State the sum of $25 for every day of such neglect or refusal.
5. In every instance where an attorney or other agent of the stockholder seeks the right of inspection, the demand must be accompanied by a power of attorney signed by the stockholder authorizing the attorney or other agent to inspect on behalf of the stockholder.
6. The right to copy records under subsection 2 includes, if reasonable, the right to make copies by photographic, xerographic or other means.
7. The corporation may impose a reasonable charge to recover the costs of labor and materials and the cost of copies of any records provided to the stockholder.
[80:177:1925; A 1951, 332]—(NRS A 1959, 29; 1963, 217; 1965, 978; 1991, 1214; 1997, 697; 2003, 3082)
I agree with that. A PE of 10 would put it at .05 PPS and lets face it expectations are much lower now so earnings of .005 would be real nice.
No its not. I wouldn't pay the same price for a product on ebay than I would if it were coming directly from the company.
The reasons you site here are why I think it is more likely an employee.
Possible but more likely an employee IMO.
Online retail? I suppose that is possible but it is more likely an employee or former employee selling product. I know that they are just getting into retail but if they want to get into online retail google adwords is a must. I also think amazon.com is a better venue than ebay. Ebay is still more of an aftermarket IMO. I use amazon.com for a lot of my online shopping. If I find a product elsewhere I will see if they sell it on amazon and buy it from there this way my information is protected. If you go on amazon and look up flash drives you'll see Sandisk and other competitors there. Amazon actually has a newer program where they ship for you. I think they are as good as any retailer. Of course this is just my opinion.
I don't doubt it I'm just saying they are ripping you off on the buy side and the sell side IMO.
New but not from the company? If I just bought a product and never used it and decided to sell it I would not be able to get as much as if it was new coming from the manufacturer or distributor IMO.
I think he is saying you won't get filled because the brokers are filling themselves on the bid and selling the ask. If you are buying you will pay more and if you are selling you will get less. The first day on the greys I added a small buy of 100k at .011. I took half the day to fill but there were a bunch of trades below that.
I am assuming they are used since they are not from the company. I don't think it is strange at all people buy and sell things for a multitude of reasons.
Once again thank you for your insight here.
I typed wrong. I meant to say if we had earnings of .005 we would still be OK. A PE of only 5 gets us to .025 PPS. If all turns out to be legitimate then .01-.018 is possible but at this point a half cent would salvage us IMO.
Yes that does. Bottom line is we need Jim Plant to release audited numbers ASAP. I'd say not much more than two weeks if not sooner. Even earnings of .05 per share salvages the investment here.
Yes but I think they were posted by individuals but I didn't see the listings.
Look I'm not going to debate it with you but I have spoken to attorneys on that the est has to be close it can't be off by that much. I don't know if it is accurate but I do believe it is fraud if the O/S is 1.2 billion when it is supposed to be 700 million. This board is not for the purposes of debate so lets just leave it at us having different opinions on the issue.
Aren't they used? Shouldn't they go for less or am I missing something?
I think if you email them they will answer that question.
Other people also gave the TA the numbers on the website and they were also told that they were accurate too. If the TA was lying then they would also be party to FRAUD IMO. Time will tell.
Wow! I too am eating crow on that one! Way to go Liquid!
Smartmoney77
I just read the one on the 5%. Will they have documentation to prove the O/S and float available if we force them to share thier records? Or can that only be obtained from the TA?
OK thanks I only saw the one. My self and two other people can do the 5%. I have a small group of larger investors that has about 75 million working on the 105 number. Trying to do it with a small group if possible. First I want to get the shares together and thentake the next step. Hopefully we will see the A/F's int eh next two weeks but just in case I figgure we should be ready.
Thank you very much. Is that the same law or another one. If you happen to have the law handy please hit me back with it. I know my self and two other people own 18% of the supposed float.
What do you think about INXR?
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=INXR&p=D&b=5&g=0&id=p86089322628&a=99107789&...
I'll check it out. Thanks.
How many shares?
I think you are right that they play the spread and actually make the MM look good if that is possible. I think the one thing that A/F's will do is provide a little peace of mind that your investment is somewhat safe. I think we'd run with them on the pinks big time, the greys I don't know but at least I would know my investment would fine if A/F's come out.