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Hand, if the lender is selling shares, then what would that tell you about that lender, pretty strange behavior right? If they can do smth like that, i wouldnt be shocked at all, in fact I would almost assume that the company will not pay it back, they will say no basically. Then SIAF have two options, go to court (expensive, takes forever, drama, bad for reputation) or they just stop paying back loan and say they will not pay back loan until they get shares.
"Have to", as we say in my profession, there is contact and there is reality. Contract between b2b is more or less "guidelines". Ofc they are legally binded, but how many of all contract that are breached to you read about in the news or go to court? I would say less than 1%, for sure less than 5%.
Contract with ECAB is already breached... They wanted to sue Solomon, They have not even paid interest to ECAB. Thats would be least of Solomons problem.
It would be a wet dream, I think 90% we can erase that from our head. It just is to good to be true. I have said it before, I think if they sell they don't plan to pay back. If so, they plan to breach the contract.
The only logic would be that they are not planning on handing them back becouse they got more from selling them than what the loan is worth. No?
Let's say they are sold. Could someone explain how that would make sense. Isn't that way to risky. Oki fine u get down the price maybe u even short, what will happen when u will try to buy 5 000 000 shares, you are not gonna get them for 1,05 dollar, thats for sure. Speculating that you could sell 5 000 000 shares for more than buying 5 000 000 is like going to casino IMO.
Swede, how are u sure thet the colladaral shares are sold on the market. I agree that the 3,5% looks strange, who would lend money to solomon with such interest. But do you have more "evidance"? Did u get in contact with Solomon?
It was possible for SIAF to go from 100 million dollar valuation to 20 million, but down to 4 million dollar. Then it more or less has to bankrupt. For that valuation any decent wealthy person could just impact the pps huge. I think there is a level where it disconnect from fundamentls, but also one when it even disconnect from what it even can be worth teoretically. You would more or less only need to convince someone to invest 100 000-200 000 dollar.
The Swede, took the time to counted all shareholders shares on OTC and contacted Solomon. That is superb
Peter Grossman said that cash div would not happen without the loan. This was very clear. I dont know why though since they are making money. He though said that the published PR about the divident is "not missleading". The loan is 99% and div 80%
I talked to Peter gross today, I wanted to ask him some question and also to get an interview with Solomon, though he thought I ddnt have enough stcoks but he would ask. Anyhow I keept on by asking some questions to peter.
Some highlights.
1. If the loan is not granted he would suggest management to inform the shareholder.
2. The loan will not be finilized before year end (that we could all guess), he mentioned January as likely
3. Solomon will not be the CEO or managing director for Triway, only board member
4. The PR about the AGM was a misstake and was not meant to be published, though nothing in it was "missleading".
5. Solomon is not planing on retire, he works all the time and is fully dedicated into the work
6. He understood we are dissapointed by whats happening with the pps.
7. He said if there is no loan there will be for sure no cash divident, but it was not garanteed with the loan but it opens up more flexibility how to spend money. Though he said they cannot communicated this to the bank that some of the money will indirect go to cash divident.
Did someone call Solomon a crock during a CC? Haha
Haha I own cryptocurency, I agree it is the least deserved money I ever made. Sino agro, least deserved lossed I ever made :)
I also want to still be a buyer but might not until someone give me the final argument for why this company is no fraud.
Solomon, you can proof it, give us some cash.
They do the right thing when waiting even though its frustrating. They need to answer to our frustration, I hate listen to when Dan goes trough the numbers like a robot, like did he never learn how to have a presentation. What CC is like they even, repeating whatever we see in the Q report like microsoft sam, any human would be explaning whats happening with the different operations, what is the vision, what is the next steps.
The worst thing with owning this stock is that it doesnt feel fair, pps is disconnected. I own H&M and im not at all angry becouse pps drop, becouse at least it is logic. There turnover went down for first time.
With Sino you can loose 40% between quarters withou any new information. It is insane.
I feel like trying to get in contact with Solomon. I might call Erik tomorrow
Do ppl work in China during our Christmas and new year?
Pps down day after day after day... for 2,5 years. This is so disturbing. Other stocks goes up or down based on new information. This stock just goes down 3%,5% or 10% in one day without any reason whatsoever
Yes you are right that the problem is partly solved. I dont know about Solomom, I have met several owners of companies that have managed to go from small to big. What drives these ppl is not money, they are normally just workaholics that lives for what they are doing and don't have the time to spend their money. I know that FD said that S was working contantly so the stereotype fits him well.
Also consider how old he is I dont think money is that important for him.
But ofc, IDK maybe it is :)
Thats good, the larger the company gets the less of a "one man show" it should be, like a good plan. Deligation becomes more important and to attract right compatance to the company.
I hope this turns out well, i'm more invested than I should. But the risk/reward looks very good (hopefully not too good to be true).
Btw, is there anyone on this board or anyone that knows someone that has been to SIAF?
That sounds very good, he then is trying to decrease his workload. at investorshub it sounds like he is a control freak that will rule this company From his death bed.
I hope he gets the loan and then forms the management team and gives away his A shares and function as an adviser and shareholder. That would be good I think.
S is getting old. What would happen if he becomes sick an cannot continue as CEO ? Does he have children, i'm afraid of his A shares.
No other CEO with no track record?
I can give you some examples, Steve jobs, Bill gates. I work with many in my daily work. One that builded a 300mdollar company, no track record.
They have recieved stocks and not sold any, yet having less shares than 2010. Help me with the math here.
U mean because they have printed stocks like crazy ? Naturally they will own less share of the company...
Hand and Swede, do you feel that is responsible that we neither have 20 000 Mt production, no financing, no x date, no announed divident plan, no SJAP carvout and no CA deal even though all of these has been communicated in one or another way.
What we have instead is huge operational problems that we ddnt get any information about until we saw -50% when reports starting to drop in.
How should one to the dd? Becouse listen to what the company say seem to make no sense. So what should we do?
You all talk about DD, what do you think is expected from an investor, it's really hard to know if Sino is scam or not. I read the Q reports and just hope that I can trust what the company gives. The only reason I trust them is becouse FD and Alessandro is still invested. I never went to china to se it myself to look at the operation. And to be honest, even after FD 100s of hours of DD and privat guides and interviews that few investor would ever get he still said there is a small chance it is scammed.
Then we have ppl in here talking as if they are 100%, what did you do to be 100% and what is you DD all about?
To talk about buyback vs divident is such a luxary problem. How do ppl, especially RD, have the energy to discuss it. Any of them would be amazing. Both are SIAF spending money on a 100% shareholder friendly action.
I never understood this volume, always 100 000 when they start. Who is it !
It sounds like we are at a stage of formalities, in the end of such big deal there will be a process that still need to be respected and some signatures are needed on papers. I think its possible this could take less than 30 days.
You mention that agriculture stocks are depressed in china space. Has this to do with open export market as for SJAP or no, why are they so depressed? Do they have a histroy that is not good.
I might be to traditional im my valuations, but for me this company with current earnings should normally be traded at 70% of PB.
Then give it 20% off for beeing China, additional 30% for bad mgmt decisions and 10% for the "fraud" risk.
I still end up with 35% PB, not 15% or 5%.
With more healty levels of earnings and remove above discounts this company should be at least traded along with their assets.
No?
I saw some other companies that you are were active in that was traded with PB 2%. I guess though 5% is even insane for Chinese comapany. But there seem to be other that is also traded lite that, though IDK are they even "worse" than SIAF normally with similare valuation? I think Siaf is def doing some bad things but I don't really feel its worth such low valuation.
The longers in here, do you belive that the pps is more, equal or less undervalued than before the ECAB deal? If we consider the situation, the trust in management, potantial upswings etc.
For me the price looks like all time undervalued, but I might be wrong. When SIAF was printing stock liek crazy I feel like PE1 makes more sense, we now also have a loan comming up that I guess only excisted in dreams by then, no?
Just added 2500 to my portfolio. I hope I will not regret. Planing on adding additional in few weeks.
Realdutch,
Anthony is normally very willing to answer questions if you send email to him. I always get answer same day or at least within a few.
He should for sure clarify which one is the one they wanna sell etc.
This should imply that indipendent management team can only happen after they have reapid the loans. In other words, after the loan.
Aqua, if I recall correct you are owner of a 1st tier supplier for the aquaculture industry in Norway. Should I make the assumption that if you are wanna load I better get buy whatever I wanna have before :D If u you what i mean
Could someone explain what this is about? Can they now grow any fish there or what happend?