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Ah, yes, my bad. Got a bit confused there. That makes a lot more sense.
I do agree, once we hear any good news on that front, this should definitely move up.
yeah, I definitely agree on that. What happens if they come out with some earnings/filings that are not profits? Will that force it down more?
I don't think they even forcasted profits in the first place.
I guess it all depends on the filings?
no big pumpers here this morning, so hopefully we'll be back on our way up. We had a good morning, but looks like it's leveling off. Its around the typical lunch time, so as long as we can keep positive/green, we have good chance to keep moving on up. Should close in the .18s or hopefully .19 today and get to move on up.
Looks like ending the week in the .30s or $1 range isn't going to happen. Hmm, that's strange, wonder why?
haha, I know the feeling. I bought all at .26, and it has since dropped all the time. So I'll take the blame on this one
I like your plan, though. If I could, I would hold out in case it does drop to .15 or lower and get in on that. I wish I could as it would also avg me down from my current .31
I'm doing my best not to curse this, and looks like you're doing your part
yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I've been keeping quiet as much as possible. I figure this isn't going to pop for awhile, so I'm not going to keep worrying about it.
Would have like to got some around the .10 range, but I don't have any more funds to put towards it. I'm ok with that though, it's money thats not going to hurt me, but it would be nice to have more
Glad to see we are doing better this morning. I'm hoping a lot of them got out yesterday or day before so we can let this keep going up. Anytime it seems we get some good positive movement, they and their band wagon jump over here and help it jump a little more, only to turn around and let it drop hard.
We haven't gotten any news, so that doesn't help. Hopefully something soon. If not, this should still hang around the .20 range.
Hey Ernie! Haven't seen you too much over in PCX area lately
We had a nice rally earlier this week, but it appears we got rug pulled out by the shorters, or people on that "breakout board" and they got their 10 to 20% and then caused it to dump on us
Good news is it looks good so far this morning
any thoughts/opinions on how its currently going?
Luckily I kept listening to you, LostBall, and a few others and decided to keep holding. I may have an avg of .31, but I could have gotten out when it almost reached .26. Something is telling me to keep holding for awhile and not worry too much.
just wanted to see your thoughts and perspective
thanks, as always!
my bad, let me clarify:
#1. We all know they will emerge from BK, AFTER they do the re-organization
#2. My statement, and fung's response, was me saying "what IF" they emerge from BK as of right now, without having to re-emerge and reorganizing. Pretty much, my statement was "what IF they report a profit for their earnings, and the current BK status they are in was cancelled and the court/judge kicks them out of BK". I'm just thinking what would happen if that did, and how would it happen, etc.
So yeah, the other point is, when this is all said and done, with that 500+ million in assets, we may or may not get anything. I'm leaning towards the same figure you are, $1 or even as high as $2. we never know unless a committee is formed to represent the commons. Right now, no committee is formed for the commons and there is hope that one of the bigger financial banks and/or portfolio holders that owns millions in shares of the stock will help form it to get some, or most of the money back.
going to be awhile. But if that happens, good chance this will shoot up to $1 or higher as people will know that someone is now fighting for the commons
He was referring to my post when I asked if this company posts a profit for recent earnings if this will cancel the BK due to this
He is stating that is pretty much sure that this won't get out of BK, which it is already in
Yeah, fully agree. We all knew the purpose of Blue, and I pretty much took everything he said with a grain of salt. I kept jabbing at him a lot about his predictions, which he thanked me personally with a PM with some minor profanity.
I also agree, I doubt this will exit BK, just thinking out loud with some "what if" scenarios. Trying to make heads/tails of the situation and why we haven't heard any earnings or other information. We all feel any positive news will help this go up a little bit higher.
But, as another already replied, they have 45 days to report it, so it can be this week or next week, or even week after perhaps.
Most likely they are in no hurry to post it since this is in BK stage and that is more important right now for them.
Good info, thanks for sharing input.
The actual problem is this made the "breakout board" which typically means that everyone of them went over here, bought in a good low amount, and now they are "dumping". Its the classic pump and dump.
If you notice, we don't see "Blue" on this board anymore. He made his chunk and has moved on. He has gotten a lot of others to do the same.
Now they are dumping everything, and then at the same time, everyone else is trying to force it down so they can get in on the "dip" and have it climb, and take their profits, etc
Only way we can keep moving on up is without them. We were doing that just fine, but they got wind of this and completely crashed it with their "pump and dump"
Unfortunately, it will be another week or so before we get green and go back up. Or, we get some good news and this gaps up like it should have a long time ago.
My other thought is, weren't we supposed to have earnings announced a week ago? Are they delaying it on purpose?
My question is, what IF those earning showed good profits and they are delaying it on purpose because they think it will cancel the BK process, and this is something they don't want to happen. But they got full approval for DIP Financing, so I would have thought that they would then announce the earnings
However, what would happen IF they did get it approved for financing and they got good profits from last quarter? Would this cancel out and cause an issue with the Judge approving the loan?
Of course, earning could have been delayed because they aren't done yet, or they aren't supposed to come out until this week or next. I was just under impression it was going to be out last week.
Thoughts?
Yup, exactly. Saw them do that a little bit yesterday before it ran up huge. Just have to keep hanging on and weather the storm until they are done.
Volume is almost double than the normal (that its been for the past week or so). Huge selling already after it climbed nicely this morning. Lots doing their typical 10% and sell.
i guess you scared everyone off with your awesome prediction of .14
such power you have
hopefully this trend of it going up will continue. As others said, we figured it would have a sell of this morning and once they are done selling their quick money, it would go right back up. Still plenty of time today for it to reach the .30s
Then probably the gap up to the .50s
Not sure it will hit $1 by Friday, but good chance it will be close. Perhaps .70s or .80s
without a message?
I'm not talking about personally, I'm talking about when you have a financial institution. You saw the list where huge places hold millions in stock in the company
If other financial places see that they treated the share holders like this, why would places like that want to invest in it. Some are part of portfolios, etc.
If all of those places lose 40 million, its stupid to buy into it again when they just lost 40 million
when they go BK again, you lost it all AGAIN.
if you have a pattern to it, then you are taking a risk no matter what with the same company that keeps doing it. They have no "loyalty" to their share holders, then why invest or put money in a company that doesn't care or keeps lying
why would any new share holders be as loyal to the company, after they find out how the previous share holders were treated. If the current holders get nothing, then the new share holders could no longer believe in the company. What is to stop the same fate for them if they are to file BK again in a few years.
yes, coal is going to be in huge demand, but if Obama is in for another 4 years, it will continue to cripple coal industry for those 4 years. The company may have to do it again, or go under entirely. The best situation is to be bought by India/China.
So that being said, how and why would anyone want to buy into a new PCX knowing that the company has already lied when they said this comment. Keep in mind, this was said for current share holders, not new ones. Comment I believe was made pre-BK.
Some people may forget it happen, yes. Others may not care because they want to make some quick bucks, or flip real quick, or make their 10% or whatever and get out. But, in the grand scheme of things, with larger financial banks, etc, it would be a huge red flag knowing a company that wants to protect its employees and share holders, to only turn their backs on them. Essentially, being stabbed in the back. Same fate can happen with new holders, and that should prevent many from wanting to buy into it and I would think it would help push it further down. They would no longer have a leg to stand on.
I would think they do a buy out of current share holders (probably won't be much, but it will be something) and then start over. OR, they may try to issue new shares for the current share holders with new shares in the restructured company. That's the best case scenario. All up to the judge, obviously. But if CEO and all the upper management doesn't do ANY fighting to make sure something good happens to pre/post BK holders, then this company won't get far later on.
I guess that was pre-BK right? Would be nice if they come out and say this post-BK. would be very helpful and reassuring to those that are holding a lot of shares, and for those that are holding at a really high price.
Yup, exactly what I see and feel.
The question is, WILL this happen?
Time will tell. I would think with the record breaking temps we've had, and the supply/demand for China/India would definitely make a huge factor. With the upcoming months, and winter time coming, that should also help shoot up the demand
oh yes, we definitely do. We ALL do. Everyone on here that has tons of shares would be relieved to know we have someone fighting for their shares. Especially for those who have bought in above $3 or even $5 a share and still holding.
They are faithful investors that, in my opinion, deserved to get their money back.
We are not sure if anyone is trying to do this, or huge financial institutions that have millions of dollars invested may get their lawyers involved and get a committee going.
We've seen that list, and none on there are for common share holders. Just debtors, unions, etc.
believe its at 2pm today. Not sure when they will announce the outcome
http://www.patriotcaseinfo.com/hearings.php
It may not be $1 or $2, and we know that won't happen for a long time, but at least it's positive and moving in the right direction.
Beggars can't be choosers
I'll take any positive movement. We know that this is going to get a lot of resistance.
I thought the numbers were coming out last week or this week. I guess they don't have a timeline on it. If they are big with profits, I guess then the next decision does this mean they will just cancel the BK proceedings, or will this help fuel a possible buy out from China/India or some other coal company? Knowing that, yes they did file for BK, but they are still profiting and the outlook appears to be moving back up. Would make sense to have someone buy them out from another country that needs this more than anyone else.
It's been one of the hottest summers, and who knows if this winter will be a very cold one, or another mild.
next month or so will be interesting to keep watching
nothing but luck you all. I know flippers will be making their money, but for those that are holding and had this very high, I hope you are able to recoup most of your money, if not all, of it back.
You would think this would be a key component for them to double the exports to India and make a huge profit. I'm sure the main problem is, even at a discount, India may not be able to afford it anyways
Not sure if solution is for them to just buy out a company like PCX. In long run, it may be cheaper.
Its a good thought, been watching that and China as well. China is definitely a place that can easily buy any of the coal companies
HILARIOUS
Hey Blue, not being negative or pushy towards you. You've been a good positive light on the board.
My questions/thoughts towards you is trying to see your perspective and thought process. You know, where you think this is headed, besides the information you provided in regards to the 500m in equity that the company has.
You mentioned the MMs and L2 numbers that you've seen.
So don't take my comments as being a smart butt and being a hick dead. I figure you see something that we are not, and therefore I'm trying to gain that same perspective. Unfortunately, I don't have the L2 access so I can't see it for myself.
I think you, and a few others see this going back up. You believe this baby is going to pop and go really well. Majority feel it can do that, but not for awhile
Just trying to gain perspective, that's all
thanks blue
haha I totally missed the sarcastic piece. I usually pick up on it very well. I had a feeling that's where you were going with it since the number was so high. Hence, why I had to ask
thanks for humoring me
Hmm, interesting. Seems MMs keep loading and loading and this keeps dropping and dropping
Let me know when this is going to rocket up
love the positiveness
So, you're thinking this is going to pop to 2.50 and then eventually $20?
What about the fact that this is in BK. I'm assuming if this keeps running up and everyone gets luck to even get to $2.50, you would think they would emerge out of BK, start all over again. How would this keep going to $20 while still in BK?
I'm curious as to where you come up with these figures.
I'm not being negative, I'm just saying that with a BK stock, for it to get to 2.50 is a miracle. Saying $20 is just going overboard.
you been saying this for over a week now, Blue
all it's done is drop 5% to 10% or 20% every day
When is this going to pop then?
I'm sure we all want to believe, but it appears this is going to keep going lower and lower
where's the love?
Yeah, that was my initial lesson learned. Don't go "all in". Buy at the dips and if it keeps going lower, keep buying at those lows to avg down.
I've already learned a lot in a short period of time, so this is good stuff.
I may just sell all at the .62 and double my money and "not chance it". Or like you said, I may just sell half at that price and get my money back. Whatever else I have is pretty much "profit". Ride that up as far as I think it will go and then cash that out. If it dumps before I had the chance, well, at least I got my money back. The good news is I will definitely be riding the rest of it "stress free"
Now to keep waiting for that opportunity to get out
Yeah, that's what I thought. I know its early, but like a big learning process, this is very helpful to be able to "think out loud" and have someone who definitely knows way more than me be able to answer those questions and thoughts.
It will help in the future, that's for sure. Looks like I'm going to be in this for a very long time, so I've already gotten my seat. I just have to sit still and watch it here and there.
The next choice is, IF this gets back up (my avg is .31) do I get out at that and break even, or do I take a bigger chance and ride it higher. I'm trying not to be greedy about it, and just be thankful I broke even. But, at the same time, IF I'm going to be in this for awhile, I might as well keep riding it up for $1 or higher (if possible). I would be rewarded per se for waiting.
The big key of course is to make sure I get out before they close it out and it becomes zilch. I would think you, and many others on the board can see it coming and know when to get out before its too late
Good stuff, Ernie. Been spending some time going over it.
I'd like to think that what I'm in right now will have a good outcome.
someone posted something that I had been thinking about for awhile. It had to do with the upper management (e.g. CEO, etc) that has a ton of common shares. You would think that those people would be doing anything and everything in their power to get things back up so they can recover most of that money. I'm assuming for some of them that's hundreds of thousands, if not almost millions of $ for them. They would lose all of that when they get out of BK.
Here is something of interesting to ask though. Are they able to sell at any time with post BK? meaning, IF this pops above $1 or $2, they an sell all they have to recoup as much as they can, especially considering that they know when they emerge from BK they won't have those shares anymore. Granted, they "may" get others shares in the new stock, but may not be as much as they had before.
Just some stuff I've been pondering. I figure IF they do have a huge steak in the game with us commons, they would be doing everything they can to get as much as possible out of it before it goes bye bye
BTW, my bad for saying "longball" when its supposed to be "lostball". stupid typo, my apologies
as always, thanks for taking time to reply and share your info, knowledge, and feedback
good info, that is something I had been mulling over
if that is the case, then you would think since they have so much at stake with the company, and so many years, they definitely don't want to be screwed out of potential millions of dollars
guess we will see, definitely still early
I was thinking the same thing. The big wigs there must have a ton of shares in the company.
However, if they are going to re-issue shares after it emerges from BK, wouldn't those big wigs get compensated by getting new shares?
This way they didn't lost all of them in the BK where they are worth nothing. They would just get them again when they come back out of BK.
If they don't or can't, then I would say that is good to hear as they don't want to lose millions
thanks LostBall, much appreciated for sharing this info.
you need to tell APS and/or TBX to promote PCXCQ so you can actually get this to $1 or $2
That's much better attention. Last time this was on the breakout board, it went down.
Does anything ever pop and keep going up that makes it on the break out board?
I think this just needs good news, that is better in the long run than a quick pump IMO
Many thanks for the great tips, Dion.
That's pretty much what I've been trying to, the avg down. I know this is definitely NOT a long term investment.
I will keep reading this board, and a few others, to continue educating myself on all the workings, when to look at avg down, or how to better position myself (not just in this stock, but in all others I may want to trade with)
thanks again!
Great story, Ernie.
If this is the case, then I'll keep on holding then and hope this can happen. I would "like" think this company is in much better position than many others that gone to BK.
I'm also "hopeful" that a judge wouldn't shaft all the investors with nothing. yes, it could happen, but I would think a judge would try and do what is best for everyone.
for that, and your story, I have decided to hang tight and wait it out. It may take a month, or several months, or even longer. I've lost so much, I might as well just wait it out and IF it goes above $1 and higher, I would have made a good chunk of change. It would be way more than I have. Especially if my avg is .31 and it breaks $1. I would have been good money.
I like your outlook much better than all the others on the pcx board. I know they are just trying to be nice and make sure no one gets left with the bag per se. But at the same time, I just hate huge amounts of negativity.
It looks like I'm the noob in the case and will try and keep my head above water like you did
Good info Morning. Appreciate the detailed information
It is obvious that I don't know BK stocks at all. I had been following PCX for a few months. I felt it was a solid company and thought it would be going back up after I thought it hit bottom. I thought bottom was the .18 it did a couple of weeks ago. Apparently I was way off.
That being said, my main purpose is to keep doing DD and learn from this. I'm trying to avoid making the same mistakes in the future. I'm learning all I can by doing the DD and other research, but I also like to see others opinions on this board. I have great respect for many of you, and hearing your thoughts and opinions is a huge factor.
After all is said and done, it may come to the point where I will say "no way in hell I will touch another BK stock again". Or I could figure this out and be able to make a good profit from it. Either way, I need to learn this much better and not jump in feet first without looking
once again, thanks to you, and everyone else who is kind enough to share insightful information. I have learned a great deal.
Ernie,
your wisdom is a sigh of relief.
I originally got in at 1.22 almost a month ago. From there, after a week, it just kept tanking and tanking (like its doing now). I finally read a few things to where it was going to keep going, so I said "just cut your losses and move on". So I got out at 1.02.
Another week went by and it shot past 2.50. I can't tell you how much I was kicking myself.
After another week or so went by, it finally did the official BK and tanked. I saw it go as low as the .18s and then a day or so later, it jumped 60%. I said "ok, its bottom, now you can get back in and make your money back you lost, and maybe get lucky and make a little bit more". Once again,not setting my sights on being greedy, but just trying to get back what I lost with a little bit extra.
I got in at .26. It took awhile to get in, but I got in and thought that was the bottom. From there, well, now you see where it is.
I know what my mistake was. It was I went all in with everything I had at .26. I should have taken part of my money and got in at .26. If it goes down, go in a little bit again. And keep doing that (reload after every .05 or so). I see you also mentioned doing that. I should have done that, but I lost sight that this was going to keep going down. I really thought this baby was finally going to bounce up and thought .26 was a good entry point
So that being said, my "avg" price is .31 (if you take the shares I bought at 1.22 and got out at 1.02 and what I bought at .26).
Another reason why I'm thinking twice about getting out is because I really haven't given it much time. I've only been in this for almost 2 weeks.
Like you, I will definitely follow your great advice. Get out at certain points when it goes up and if it keeps going up, then get out here and there and not get caught up in too much greed. If I get lucky and double my money, then I will count that as a win and may not want to push my luck for it to reach $1. It would be awesome if it did.
So I'm going to keep on doing that, and try not to sweat it.
thanks so much for you kindness and help.