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Please do not interpret my post as a positive confirmation of your thesis. Its not. My point that I have made for a long time is that JBI is a really risky investment. If this is true, we will make a lot of money. If not, then the future is obvious. I have been scammed to, lied to, cheated, abused and bruised in the past. This plainly does not seem a scam to me. I may be very wrong. The risk to me is that the technology does not work and that an unforeseen obstacle is presented before commercial realization. I am sure that if we all had the opportunity to peek into Gates and Allens garage when they were tinkering with their first software would have felt the same way. Or if you looked at what Brylin and Page were doing while they were in college might have asked negative questions and adopted a negative thesis.
I have also made it very clear that the onus of the proof is on JBI. The only proof is sales and revenue. The rest is conjecture and noise You only have conjecture and noise for your thesis as well. You may be proved right. Or you may be proved wrong. Its either all or none or as one put it so eloquently before. you are f***ed or famous. That is the bottom line.
But that is why its an $0.80 stock. If all the cards were on the table, its either a lot more or a lot less.
I am only betting with money that I can afford to lose. If its the latter, I have to work for a bit longer before I can retire.
First sensible thing I have ever heard you say. There is no in-between. Its either worth a lot or close to zero. But what if its true? Seems to me that that is the gamble you take.
How much longer do people think it will take before we hear some meaningful news on JBI? That is, news that will really move the stock?
That is absolutely the way I intend to deal with the company. I agree. My comments were that I have met many that have everything in the stock. I hate to see people get hurt like that. Nothing is a given in the stock markets. I have been in this business for almost 30 years. It makes me very nervous when investors take success for granted.
I agree wholeheartedly with point 2. Point 1 still needs some work. No proof yet that JBI can produce profits from P2O. If there was unequivable proof, JBI stock is much much higher. You can make a reasonable case that it is and the probability is high it is, but there is still no proof. Only revenue and earnings from P2O will provide that. I believe it is coming but it is not here yet.
I am only attempting to make sure that people understand that this is not a slam dunk or game over like some people suggest. I am not in any way trying to disparage what JBI has done or could potentially do. I am firmly in their corner. I would love to see JBI succeed for reasons beyond personal gain. I like John. I believe he is an honest and sincere individual. But that is just my opinion. I admire his ability to be singularly focused and driven to succeed.
But anyone with an oz of logic still has to admit that the path to riches is still strewn with obstacles like all stocks. MSFT still has obstacles that are known and unknown. You just have to be comfortable with the risks. I am but I was just attempting to get others beyond the expectations that JBI would make them rich. With all stocks, you have to ask yourself what can go wrong and can I live with losses that are beyond your control.
The onus of proof is still on JBI, and the only proof will be revenue and earnings from P2O. Beyond that it is all conjecture and speculation. That's why its still a $0.70 stock with the inherent risks associated with a penny stock. The lawnmower test, Islechem, DEC, etc. etc. do not prove anything to date.
The Isleschem report only comments on the chemistry but not the financials. DEC only shows that the process does not pollute but not whether P2O can operate profitably. Nothing to date proves that P2O can operate profitably.
I am not trying to be negative but I still want to point out the risks.
People here had better not forget that when they invest their life savings here. You may be proven right in time and you will be happy you took this gamble.
On the other hand, if it is not you had better be prepared to live with the consequences.
THIS IS STILL A HIGH RISK STOCK.
so how will this benefit anyone including those who spin the story? They had their chance for personal reward last year when the stock was $7. I don't understand why the "story" is ongoing?
Then pray tell what will happen from here
None of it matters. If JBI is able to produce fuel from plastics like claimed, the stock is worth a lot. If not, its worth zero. By mid April, we will know.
so at this point what do you think will actually happen. Has Mr. Bordynuik accomplished his mission to date? Has he enriched himself with his Ponzi scheme or is that to come?
sounds like most companies I know
Thats my point. JBI is acting like a real company now. Long gone are the actions like 14 press releases in one day and posting to sources like FB. They are releasing information like a real company
PP. Your questions may be answered in time. Who knows at this time. I suspect with the AGM in about 3 months, many questions will be answered in this time frame. If not, then your suspicions will be warranted. What I don't get is if it is a scam as you allege, then why is the company going to such great lengths to remedy past errors like the filing last night. They amended a past filing. Scam companies do not pay such attention to details. I suspect JBI is looking for another listing like the TSX-V exchange and want to make sure they are in compliance.
It's crunch time and we are racing to the AGM. A $0.70 stock will not sit well with attendees at the AGM and they know it.
You complain that JBI is not being truthful at all times. I think they have been more truthful than a lot of companies have been. Senior execs at many US financials have made JB appear a choir boy in comparison. In any event, there is a time and a place for details to be revealed. We will have our answer by Mid April. You have not posted any motive for your alleged accusations. If its a scam, its a poorly run one. He has had plenty of time to have scammed and run with a lot more in hand than the current opportunity. Why is he still here? Ego? I doubt it.
3 1/2 months to the next AGM. something better happen quick or its going to look like that scene where the peasants storm Frankenstein's castle.
We will know more of the truth by the AGM. Actually I suspect, we will know by the end of February. If not, the AGM might not be as cordial as last years AGM
PP. what is your opinion of where the stock might be if all the claims put forth on this board are proven right? Lets say the process works, he is able to sell his "fuel" commercially and the costs are under, say $25 a bbl and he can sell it for over $100 and he has maybe 50 processors lined up?
What if it is all true?
That will be revealed I suspect at the conference call. For now, I am content with my speculation with regards to JBI but I also understand that it could be worth zero in the future. Now if its ok with you, I will hold my lottery ticket for the future.
You can provide the motive for fraud but usually the price to be paid is jail or jumping from a helicopter like the geologist from Bre-X. Justice is swift and Mr. B would never get away with it. If he kept it relatively small and swindled investors with a few million here and there, maybe. But that opportunity was passed a few months ago. Perhaps he believes his own story? Doubt it. But we will know all within 2011. Stay tuned. I have stated all along that there is still tremendous risk here. I am not so naive to believe everything. I have worked in this industry for almost 30 years. I trust nobody.
They cannot proclaim all that you want them to state publicly until such time as they have and can produce indisputable proof. That will only come with run tickets, revenue and earnings.
They are but only because I have not chosen to go through the process of unrestricting my shares. My one year anniversary is Feb 2011. At that point, I can go through the process of receiving permanent free trading shares. Subsequent to the 6 month anniversary, I would have received free trading shares with restrictions. After 1 year, all restrictions are lifted. To understand the process, contact Pacific Stock Transfer. They will send you instructions.
I also own shares that were bought on the market. They don't have any restrictions. Those will be traders. I will sell them when I cover all my costs in JBI. I want to be in a position where I have "free" shares if possible.
So every company that provides any hint of forward guidance that proves not to be 100% accurate is a scam? Arrest John Chambers!
PP. It's called speculation at this point. If all the claims made by JBI were irrefutably true and verified publicly, what price would JBI be trading at? It would be trading much higher. At this point, JBI is a bet that the claims are true. It's no different than any stock. Its a conjecture that P2O is a viable technology. I assume you have been around long enough that investors make forecasts or assumptions about the future of any company before investing. Its no different than the whisper numbers of future earnings of a company. BY the time, everyone realizes that XYZ company had better earnings or future prospects than currently known, the stock is trading higher.
Its out and out speculation and thats all it is. Is there a possiblity JBI's claims are untrue. Of course there is. As one wag once said, "Forecasts are difficult. Especially about the future."
If this was a scam PP, then it would have been all over last year. There was enough money to be made to satisfy any scammer. Typically, scams of this nature don't last long. Also, why would they have gone to the trouble to have gotten to this point? Why hire the new auditors, why hire CRA, present to DEC, order new processers, etc?
Is it just to satisfy JB's ego? Yes they made lots of mistakes along the way and they still have lots to prove. The game is not over yet. I still want to see some revenue and earnings, etc. There are still huge hurdles to overcome and risks galore.
But a scam? No.
I'm starting to believe that this "lottery ticket" of JBI shares may actually grow up and be a real company! Could we have a mini repeat of last December? I'm starting to get excited.
Beware the ides of March, Zardiw
I think JBI has to finance at some point. Would you prefer to finance at these levels or at a higher level?
For those that have emailed me privately asking for an opinion as to whether JBI will be successful, my answer is that I don't know yet. I have made it very clear that you can only say yes when they are actually in production and you see some quarterly numbers to determine success.
As shareholders we should take it upon ourselves to find out the real truth. Why not take the Niagara magazine article on JBI and email it to various business publications or media like CNN, CNBC, Wall St. Journal, etc. Also send it to your congressman or member of parliament. Engage our own media blitz. Draw some attention to the company. Have them investigate the feasibility or truth behind the company.
If the technology works as advertised, this will be a major news item. News media and politicians would be very interested in a new disruptive technology like this. If JBI can really solve the worlds plastic pollution problem, it is a fantastic story. That and producing fuel to help with high fuel costs and shortages, putting people to work, etc would be front page news.
What are we afraid of? A little publicity?
If this works, it would fast track the business plan.
What a great stock JBI is! Only $0.64 downside and unlimited upside! I'm just being smart but you need to be concerned about it. This is one of the most bizarre companies I have ever been involved with. One day it might make a great story. Its either world changing company that survived many twists and turns or it flames out and we have all gone our seperate ways. Can't wait for the next chapter. But something keeps me here. I don't believe it is a scam and I believe in John. He is erratic and I understand difficult to work with. He is incredibly focused and hard working. He has made mistakes but worked hard to resolve them. I have seen lots of scams in the past and this is not one of them. We are on the verge of D Day at this point. John has brought the company to this point through sheer force and will. We can conjecture all we want about its future and whether P2O will work or not. You can do all the DD you can. JBI's future will be determined by whether P2O is profitable or not and whether they can get it there.
I am not disaproving or approving. I am merely saying that there are still substantial risks at this point. I have 27 years of experience in the capital markets. I have seen it all. From Bre-X to Enron. $0.60 stocks are inherently risky.
I am invested. I will only feel really comfortable when its sold and the money is in the bank. Hopefully that is some fantastic sum and I can retire and do what I like doing best. But I will not put all my money in this. I have started over to often on the next "next thing" and at this point, I don't want to do it again. I may regret it.
You know as well as I do, that it will only be "game over" when they are actually producing growing P2O revenue and profits. I am just trying to get people to look objectively at the risks and not regard this blindly as a risk free investment.
I was encouraged by the timely release of the 10Q. However this is far from "Game Over" as some have stated. I still have serious reservations about the validity of the process. I am not an engineer or a chemist so I cannot comment on the technical aspects. But I can say that the process of a successful P2O process is so enormous and newsworthy, that I cannot understand how JBI has not had so much more attention given it. I know that you will say that it is not universally a well known story. But if we know about it, you can bet your boots others know as well. The market's opinion is one of disbelief at this time. You cannot get so drunk on optimism that you consider this as a done deal. Thats just dangerous. I have seen this sort of optimism so often from shareholders about companies that they have invested in. That's because they have visions of sugar plums and fairies and making a big score.
Consider JBI for what it is. A very speculative stock where you can still lose all your money invested. I would hate to see people lose their life savings.
That is just my opinion and I am not passing a judgement about the stock. Of course if it was universally regarded as successful and profitable, we would be paying a lot more than $0.60 a share.
JBI IS STILL A LOTTERY TICKET. REGARD IT AS SUCH.
Again a few orders at the end of the day for a couple of hundred shares to make it look respectable.
This is the craziest stock I have ever been involved with. You need to be aware that there is great risk here. Don't just believe blindly. The market is telling you something and Mr. Market is often right.
The only thing that will matter is whether they can produce revenue, earnings, FCF, growth rates, etc from P20 and their other operations consistently. Then you can apply some metrics to the company's stock. For that you will have to wait at least another year.
Until they do, its all conjecture on both sides.
That's not to say that this cannot be a tradeable stock. But considering the odd saga of what has occured to date, the only reliable way to determine the viability of JBI will be the above.
I met a guy that works at Heddle Marine. I asked him about JBI. He said that the whole thing is supposed to be very secret at Heddle and that he did not know much about the project.
He was supposed to go to Marakesh and sail the boat back for refitting. Other than that, he did not know any more.
What are the chances that JBI will go to zero? I think high. They are burning through what cash they have with very low prospects of doing another financing. They had better start generating some profits and quick.
What are the chances of JBI reaching its previous high? I think low.
It all depends on what happens in the next two months. By Christmas, we should all know the final details.
Call me a fool. But I still think there is a chance which is why I am hanging on to the bitter end
JB says we should be on QX this week. Pinks are supposed to be temporary
This is very frustrating. President Truman used to have a sign on his desk that said, "The Buck Stops Here". JB needs one. First he spoke too much, now he does not say anything. I appreciate that his lawyers have advised him to stay quiet during this period but no one seems to know anything at this time. Call the investor relations and they do not know anything. They can only forward the question to senior management and you may or may not get an answer. JB has a so called conference call but you are not allowed to ask questions online. Only a few questions that have been emailed in are answered. For a company that was supposed to pride itself on transparancy, it has become very mysterious. A big black hole with very little clarity. I am alarmed that the E has not disappeared. It was supposed to with the filings. They have had some kind of hearing 2 weeks ago with no resolution.
WHAT EXACTLY IS GOING ON?!!!
I would gather from the share price that some investors are losing faith in JBI and in JB as CEO of the company. Some have said that scams are led by people that the investors have had blind faith in and have been led by this to disadvantage.
I can see why. It is true that we thought the process would move along a little quicker than it has. However, it is not unusual for a company of this size and comparitive youth to run into delays and setbacks. It is now apparant that the move to $7 was not sustainable.
This lack of faith in everything is becoming an epidemic. People have lost faith in their countries, their governments, their institutions, the stock market, other and in themselves. Perhaps its a product of the time.
But I would rather have misplaced faith than not to have faith at all. Our fathers and grandfathers had faith. Thats why they fought in the great wars. They believed and had faith.
The story on JBI will play out over the next year and it may or may not work as many believe. Only time will tell. Its still very speculative and other setbacks can and will occur. If JBI works, P2O has the capability to add something positive to our lives. I will lay my chips down on that faith.
Trust me PP, I am always skeptical. I have done this for a long time and I have been lied to too many times not to be. There is still a long way to go. Which is why I say that it is premature to suggest that it is game over or a done deal.
But most scams I have seen, other than Madoff's, are usually short. Get in quick. Say a lot of BS and run with the money.
That could have happened earlier. But the company went to the trouble to save the company when it could have folded the tent and duped some people who probably would not have complained much. But this is largely a regional event and JB lives here and his family lives here. It would be very uncomfortable for him and his family if that was the case.
However, I will continue to be a skeptic until I seen revenue and EPS from P2O.
I will say it again. This is still an incredibly risky proposition. It is not BCE or risk free Treasury Bonds (although one day we may laugh at that phrase). This is a start up company that may or may not succeed. Investors should not fool themselves otherwise. But the main risks are on the operations and execution side.
I would agree that JB will read these comments from time to time. If you were CEO of this company, wouldn't you? It's really not important. Now that we have the most pressing issues out of the way, we can go forward. I have met JB on several occasions and he is primarily why I invested in JBI. I believe he is a driven purposeful individual and a rare commodity to have as an asset to the company and to shareholders. Yes, I had my doubts when they were late to file.
But my doubts were mostly on the execution side and that is still to be an ongoing issue going forward. All companies have this risk. It is a company specific issue. BP is a really current example. The Gulf oil spill is an example of poor execution and poor decision making. Decisions are only proven poor in hindsight not when made.
When you are attempting something that has never been done before, you will make mistakes. Give JB some credit here. Win or lose, he is attempting to hit it out of the park on his first time at bat. That takes a lot of courage. Those sniping and commenting on errors on his part and the company would not even have the courage to attempt to fail in front of so many.
Don't get me wrong. There are still tremendous risks and further potential for error with JBI. It is still far from a done deal. But he has earned my continued respect and faith as a person. He has faults (unlike me and other posters) but he learns from them and I think you will see a better CEO in the future.
The only thing that matters is if P2O works and can generate revenue and profits. That is the next thing to prove