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Fair value of the taking will be measured when the taking occurs. Remember, the matter isnt ripe yet, which the court has already said. You can't take something today but use yesterday's prices.. Using current fair value of entities that earn combined 20Billion a year will be a huge number.
could be a real impediment to raising any capital as the companies only continue to grow in value and the takings (potential) becomes bigger and bigger every
They really should settle.
if they were smart enough they'd realize this. Maybe they don't want to cause its going to look really bad for the government. Unless they spin the narrative like they've been doing for the past 12 years in the other direction when no one is looking.
Better do it quick.
The absurd comment by TH
He’s seen all the comments on the rule, and he’s not a dim person.
Because if this were true he'd find the "flush" button, wipe and pull up his drawers and get going.
Problem is he enjoys doing absolutely nothing.
its time to get off the pot.
Oh wait...
This is a joke...
Historic finding.. really..
what now ? they get it?
really.
I'd agree, no sophisticated investor, will put new money in to this dumpster fire that is fhfa / treasury as is. Sure, folks like us buying at a deep discount will, because we see the value, but living in chains like this is no answer, and the sh t show that is calabria and munichin has gone on long enough after the disaster that was twatt and desmarco and the rest of the henchmen.
Sorry, but the grim reality is; they need to get on with it already and yes somee of these players (that are playing) got to go. Calabra is a joke. What a complete waste, tired of the dance..shuck and jive, BS that he's been in the time we've been saddled with his sorry self.
But, yes, no capital raise while mired in the swamp that is fhfa / treasury debacle... and none while the warrants are out and not while there is this overhang of BS that is this dumpster fire.
I so sorely wish we had a real leader in there doing this.
The problem here is the obvious...
the risk panel agrees the gse's are light on capital.
that capital standards have to be set
that capital is good.
but no where does it ask...
why do you have no captital. what happened to it? How can companies that have reported 350 billion in profits the last 8 years have no capital?
who allowed what to be taken and why?
Now... lets fix that problem.
like everyone standing around and watching rome burn and saying someone sure needs to do something....
private companies taking on capital from another private enterprise on terms negotiated and fair to each other's benefit should not really be comparable to the shot gun wedding inflicted upon fannie and freddie by the government and their henchmen
This guy is a public moron so he really don't care about the stupidity and silly he writes. And most respected people pretty dismiss him as the nut job he extols.
That conspiracy theory is pretty much on target. So, its not really a theory.. its true.
PO
Do you really think the gov't is ready and prepared to cough up 200Billion? which is about the net its profited from the taking plus maybe some interest at what 10% per annum considerig the risk the gov't posed to fannie and freddie.
over 10-12 years... could amount to what.. maybe another 150-200 billion. So... all in they'll owe around 350Billion or so.
I am good with that.
oh...
and the warrants are doa.
This is so funny
The headline reads...
Ending Fannie/Freddie Conservatorship Still a Top Priority for FHFA
Hmm... anyone want to guess why the fhfa was created?
Yep to manage the conservatorship of fannie and freddie..
So, like... hummm
Its their job!
nice headline...
like saying the race car drivers job is still to drive the car.
lol!
I like this one.
This one.. asks to court to make an example of the congressional actions, federal actions (fhfa / treasury) for stealing what is not theirs and asks for measures that sets aside the entirety of the actions all the way back to the roots or geneses of the fraud.
Sure this would be hard to figure hard to repay and make amends to every shareholder (and their estates) harmed. But its the right thing to do.
This would be the nuclear bomb of ... how dare you steal and do this to these people.
This would be awesome and huge.
lol...
the government paid.... nothing for the warrants the took.
nothing...
zero..
nada
blank.
goose eggs...
the 1/10000000th of a penny is the exercise price to be paid for a single share of 150 dollar stock.
its why its clearly a 5th amendment taking. The exercise price is not at fair value.
Fair value when the takings occur which is when they are exercised, which lambreth has already said, not a taking until taken. Thus that claim is not ripe.
So, what is the fair value of the companies that collectively earn near 20Billion per year on 2billion outstanding shares? Around 150 a share. Pay that... and its fair value. 5th amendment says, pay fair value or its a taking...
Remember the money raised goes into the company so, the raise for warrants at fair value are by definition not diluitive.
A $25 par preferred should equate to 1/5th of a common.
So it'll take 5 preferred for 1 common at fair value.
PO
The case in front of scotus is broad enough that roberts, who has a history of making things up, could, could see the travesty having occurred and might just come up with a solution that wasn't asked for but is needed.
Now, imagine what that could look like...
Yes, it could happen, with roberts and such ... we could find an interesting solution.
Peace... Out
The payments on the loans even at 10% were fully repaid. Leaving the seniors completely redeemed.... right now at 10% the treasury owes fannie and freddie probably 50 Billion or so and the seniors are zilcho.
Meaning... there is nothing to convert but air, if the court takes this seriously which is about a 25% chance.
Also, the warrants, would be dead. heck they are dead anyway as fruit from a poison tree.
Never see the light of day, as they are clearly a taking if exercised.
hear it December ... issue an opinion in July... just that last time.
Why?
It would be good for mc to come out and say...
I am conservator. conservator conserves the assets of the entities under their care. Doing so, i have a duty to preserve and conserve. That duty is owed to the company and its ownership.
Therefore, I will not endorse a rewrite of the conventional definition of conservator; in that i do have a duty.
Typically
Conservators have many responsibilities, and in addition to carrying out any specific Court orders, are responsible for managing, preserving, and administering assets owned by and for the benefit of a Protected Person.
What power does a conservator have?
The conservator has the power to collect all the conservatee's assets, pay bills, make investments, etc. The conservator must seek court supervision for major transactions, such as purchase or sale of property, borrowing money, or gifting of assets.
Is a conservator financially responsible?
No. The conservator is not liable for the acts or debts of the incapacitated solely by becoming a conservator. However, the conservator can become responsible and liable if he or she grossly mismanages or steals the incapacitated's assets.
You, know... i'd love to be a conservator under the new definition that allow rape and pillage... without oversight...
i wonder where else in society this is occurring.
Cause historically, that wasn't permitted.. I guess its a new normal.
I'm in.
Can i be appointed Buffets Conservator? He's old, probably not of sound mind... i can help.
Concur
Further, MC is such a weak putz ..
He can't really figure out what is what.
Had he just done his job a year ago we'd not be in this mess today.
This stalling is unprecedented..
Get on with it
With these morons running ths show anything bad is possible.
But, yes, its should be really that easy.
A strong company with great business model and I could easily put this back in play. Trouble is there is something unseen holding them back.
Wonder why the can't see their own shadows... these peeps... are either on the take or incompetent.
The warrant BS has to be resolved before anything occurs. No way anyone puts any fresh money in with those outstanding. Frankily they are fruit of a posion tree and should be shredded...
because if ever monetized lawsuits will come. they most definitely will come.
My sense here is that the government is manipulating the market to depress the stock. Its being done thru others at their direction. I suggest that because there is simploy too much good opportunity here that without the suppression this bounty should be much much higher.
I'd sure like to see an investigation. Look at so many companies taht have gone from $3 bucks to $30 in 6 months or less...
Why aren't people that benefit from that kind of "windfall" demonized? yet, these koko puffs think we aren't justified from or to receiving just rewards for our risks?
simply idiot thinking.
Sure looks like calabra has drunk the kool aide. What a nut job. Really he / they take what two - three weeks to write that nonsense and go absolutely no where... in stead of actually getting something accomplished.
fact is he's been in a position to fix this mess for quite some time yet, couldn't find his way out of a paper bag, unless there was lunch involved.
good grief... lets get on with it already
Call it 45 and i am sold.
Maxine is a waste. Diversity, my hinney, she is all about redistribution for want of doing so. she is all about a manufactured fix for a problem that doesn't exist. Fact is fannie and freddie buy loans that perform. if a loan performs then fine if not then is a problem
MC should be dismissed / put out to pasture... he's in way over his head.
The GSE conservatorship is sort of like a house fire. Lots of smart people standing around watching it burn for 12 years all debating on which fire hose to use or not use ... what to spray on it or not or what to do with it once its done burning. Meanwhile some have put fuel on the fire trying to burn it down... all along there are thousands of shareholders in that fire getting torched..
yet all these really lol smart people lol... stand around and do absolutely nothing, yet they all gawk and say... somethings got to be done... yet ..
still it burns...
Thats' whats happened... a big old fire torching the things and people just standing around with their fingers up their respective... noses... picking and picking away... doing absolutely nothing... yet admonishing those for suggesting something... something at all and having nothing credible to add.
welcome to government (fire fighters) and the morass being dealt.
Come on... get off your blooming arses and get this done.
I don't want a windfall... that's what the goberment got... i want what is rightfully mine.
I listened to bethany and she gets about 1/2 of it.
wonder what these folks think they heard... but the gal; is not spot on... at least she is discussing it which is good. Meaning maybe the blind squirrel could maybe poke around long enough and find a nut... but its not there yet.
Unfortunatley, she doesn't get it.
She states that money taken by treasury in the nws belongs to the government and becomes government money.
Sort of like if i go to a bank and steal all the money from the safe. That money now is mine and if i have to cover a bad debt of the bank's its not their money covering the bad loan, but now my money.
She is so wrong and don't get it.
Money taken is and should belong to gse's not government. So any government bailout.. .of infusion of money until they've given back 150 Billion or so... its all gse' money being returned to gse!
She don't get it.
One thing is for certain... prior to any capital raise; the gov't is going to have come to grips with the theft of warrants and be done with diluitive prospects.
Not one dollar would be raised... with pending dilution. Never going to happen.
So, they must resolve the warrants. If they excercise them...then lawsuits for takings will ensue. Likely a motion would be filed to freeze that offering pending judicial resolution. which could take 10 more years. So, the very best thing to do is to cancel them and get on the business of raising capital.
Funny thing is ... calabria is a tool. He's completely lost in his leadership of fhfa. I'd be surprised if he could change a flat tire or even plan on having the right tools to change said tire.
Have no faith in his abilities or capabilities to lead or be in charge to actually get something accomplished. There are a ton of people out there that are education smart but can't plan can't manage and can't lead. Calabria fits that bill; he may be "well educated"... but have no ability to make anything happen positive.
A waste.
This is short sighted...
oh well yielding to customer outcry instead of doing what they need to
OMG.... would that be a great start!
And you know what... it'd still be undervalued ...
a lot.
One day, if i live long enough this thing will have $5 daily trading range...
Maybe not til next year...
But still
This is also a means to increase competition and level the playing field by making them an expensive proposition and allow other lenders into the market that don't charge these fees based upon its affordable capital structure / cost of of capital.
Not all roses... as yes it will raise income but some may look other places for their loans thereby decreasing volume. Don't know how much .. but some...
Key thing here is the number of "common" shares outstanding.
You have to figure that all this recovered capital earns income as well. So that 210Billion will earn another 10 Billion a year. So now that raise of $60B is now just $50B.
So, what's the share count before any new money is raised?
If its 1.8B outstanding on 220B capital that's around $110 per share net of the preferred. So you raise capital at $100 a share to raise $50B more? So that's an offering of around 500M shares.
So now you have 270B capital with 2.3B shares outstanding.
Do that and everyone is happy.
Gov't wins from taxes, shareholders win from equity value, housing wins, everyone wins. Except the lawyers... to bad for them.
oops..you got it backwards.
its 5 preferred for 1 common at fair value.
The GSE's have been cash flow positive from operations for nearly 20 i believe or longer... but throughout the "default swap crisis" beginning in 08... or 12 years... yep.
It was the cookie jar accounting fraud that resulted in reported losses on an "accrual" basis. On a cash basis... they've been just fine.
No they didn't.
I don't recall seeing the proxy to vote for or against them... and no i've not been compensated to have my right to vote taken from me. This too... is a taking.
its a right...
And i've not been compensated.
has anyone?
Trump needs to FIRE Calbria immediately and appoint a temporary successor that will make this happen.
Stop wasting time.
If this isnt done asap this and put to rest .
Its really never been very difficult just make it happen.
Wonder what all the stalling is about...
Also, stop playing games.
Lets get this done !
Problem is... unless the government finally decides to get off the duff; they'll delay and file motions well to November 2024..
Unless...
Okay...
Lets get it done.
This isn't news
Every1 with a brain knows this so lets get a move on.
Pronto!