Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Ok, so if they can't accept source seperated reyclables or Municipal solid waste as defined in 6 NYCRR Part 360-1.2(b)(106)
then why the need for their own MRF, storage?
(106) Municipal solid waste means combined household, commercial and institutional waste materials generated in a given area.
Would section 106 not speak to plastic?
http://www.dec.ny.gov/regs/4415.html
Why would they want source separated recyclables? Those can be sold. JBII processes waste plastic that can't be economically recycled.
I explained it wrong, I understand about it blowing around..lol
Maybe it was covered box trucks that I read which seemed overkill at the time.
I originally pictured this stuff being shipped in covered 30 yard outdoor containers. The type that you drop off at construction sites. Which I thought would be fine to store the waste onsite outdoors waiting to be processed.
After reading that it all needed to be stored indoors the indoor space needed increased substantially.
Thanks Justice, that was the report I thought it may have been in, I'm glad I ddin't search through 35,000 posts to find it...lol
Currently, on Jbi's webites it says the processor footprint is 1,000. the footprint only speaks of the actual machine size. The number I had seen spoke of the total size of space needed that included the footprint and surrounding space totaling 4,000 or so.
I was actually surprised when I read it, when I started added up the space for 3 or more. It's quite possible now that it takes less. Only going by what I read, wish I could find it. Thanks again - Art
I never asked this question before reagrding why they need permission to accept source seperated recylables.
Thanks, any idea why the Niagara DEC has required that all the plastic to be processed be shipped in a covered truck and stored indoors, seems like a large waste of indoor space?
Could this be the norm for other locations?
It seems odd that it has to remain covered, while I don't know I would think the Smurfit Stones and other large companies throw the waste outdoors as quick as possible to be shipped to landfills and that they don't store any waste inside.
What I still don't understand is why the DEC prohibited JBI from using any Source seperated recyclables from households (unless specifically approved in writing by the RMME)? Page 3 of the Solid waste permit.
Dumb question right?
Why after getting both a air and waste permit do they still need to get permision in writing to use source seperated recyclables?
Now see this is the type of question when asked everyone assumes your bashing the company.
There's plenty of competitors in this space, I'm not saying anyone one of them are any good or better. It appears to me JBi has them all beat on cost per processor, processor footprint, time to market, and quality of product. I honestly believe JBI has the lead in this field from everything I have read.
I'm honestly just trying to put all the pieces together. They're still a young company, I don't think there is anything out there much more ground floor than this.
I truly wish you and all other longs here the best wishes in your investment.
Interesting....can you provide a link to even ONE company other than JBII that takes plastic and turns it into diesel fuel at less than 10 dollars a barrel?....gimme just ONE....then we can talk about JBII having ANY competition.....
Sorry Justice, with all the heat I'm taking I wish i could find it trust me.
One of two places - older Jbi website I visited, or at one time you may remember that someone posted a link to a review of several different company's competing in this space.
It's possible it was in that report. The report spoke of the pro's and con's of each system/company and possibly the amount of space needed per processor for each company. It was actually a good report and casted JBI in a favorable light, even though it may not have been 100% accurate.
No, I can't say I have ever been to a MRF.
I understand JB bought one, what I don't understand is why the DEC prohibited JBI from using any Source seperated recyclables from households (unless specifically approved in writing by the RMME)? Page 3 of the Solid waste permit.
Great news that Smurfit owns some MRFs, it would be excellent news for the company and shareholders if they did a JV with JBI and their MRFs were large enough to contain several or more processors - have you been to any of Smurfit MRFs?
Here is a really simple question Art. It is a Yes or a No. Have you ever been to a MRF? (material recycling facility)
I believe the bottom line is most if not all JV's will need to do a build out to accomodate 3 or more processors on a particular site. I never said billion dollar companies such as Smurfit couldn't handle a buildout only that it would be dependent on available space on site and would take time.
I honestly believe that the time to do a buildout of 8,000 to 12,000sq', with all engineering,drafting,building permits,possible DEM approvals,sitework,foundations,steel structure, plumbing, electrical etc. loaded with 3 shiny new processors up and running would take at least 12 months or longer before a drop of any fuel was made - and only if they are allowed to use existing air permits .
However, for the time being I remain unconvinced that they will be able to use existing on site air permits for a processor new to any area, they may be required to have the processor running and tested by the local DEC. I know everyone here is going to say of course they can use the existing permits in place, but does anyone have any evidence for such a statement?
Never mentioned landfills, was discussing JV"s with Industrial partners on their sites.
This is where JB's focus is right now.
Space plays into the speed of a possible roll out.
Getting space is easier than getting plastic. With JBI's profit margin and demand for low sulfur fuel I think the SPACE debate is irrelevant to JBI's success.
All I'm saying is, I believe the hard part is finding the JV with the empty floor space thats ready to rock. I don't think many company's have 8,000 - 12,000 sq' feet of indoor space collecting cobwebs out there.
Sure they can build it, however what does that cost per sq' for a 10,000' Industrial building, loading docks etc? Time to build out and what about having enough land to build out on, a 10,000 sq' building with loading docks, parking etc. This is no small hill to climb. Jb has his work cut out for him in finding perfect JV's.
Let's see.....3 20 ton processors making 109 bbls a day = 327 bbls of fuel a day.
327 bbls times $99.80 (That's selling price minus the $10 bbl cost of production)= $32,634 per day time 331 days = $10,802,052 per year gross revenues.
That's roughly $8,000,000 for JBI and $2,000,000 for the company providing the 8,000 to 12,000 sq ft of space.
Splitting the difference and saying it required 10,000 sq ft of space, that means the effective return on that space is $200 per Sq ft, not counting the avoided tipping fees the company enjoys.
Somehow getting space doesn't seem like it will be a problem now does it?
The JBI plant is located at 20 Iroquois Street, Niagara Falls, N.Y. The main building is an existing 12,000 square foot single story steel industrial building.
Hmmm....why only three processors there, Jb would want to cram as many in as possible right?
Your dead wrong about only needing 2,000 square feet of space to run/maintain/feed etc.. a 1000sq' processor...period
But you already know that.
Not sure...I hear Honeywell can supply all parts now in 8-10days...lol
No hogwash, I did read it. They're not heavily promoting that part though.
The only point I'm not 100% on, is the 4,000sq' number... it could have been 3,000 0r 5,000. What part don't you believe, you think they can squeeze a 1,000sq' machine and operate,maintain and keep it supplied in a 2,000sq' room?....ok
The point is, even if they want to - it takes time. This is not going to happen over night.
Right, why didn't I think of that? Then they would just have to get all new permits since they couldn't use others...hmm good idea.
A real nail biter for sure. In the worst case scenario, where are they are going to find empty warehouses for lease in this rip-roaring economy just busting out with jobs growth and manufacturing activity?
May have to compete with broke college students bidding to turn them into cheap frat houses. Nothing to sneeze at.
Just a wee bit different here, JB is dependent upon others floor space and ingredients for success.
From what I understand, the 20T processor takes up to 1,000sq' of floor space. I think I read somewhere else it takes up to 4,000sq' of space to maintain the processor, feed it etc. If true, they need to find a company with 8,000-12,000sq' of empty warehouse space so they can install 2-3 processors. Otherwise, they need to build out such needed space.
That's like saying Viagara was overvalued upon FDA approval just because they didn't have the manufacturing floor space spread out yet.
It's the technology that's worth billions -- whether it's Vigara or P2O -- the roll out is just a question of timing when you have disruptive awesome technology that makes your......eyebrows stand erect.
No Idea...you?
When do you think TSX listing for JBII will be announced?.......et z
Wow...that's really going to eat into cash flow. "Wow.....you think? I guess if they had a staff of 1,000 and a team of 100 engineers to help......otherwise I don't see how that could have happened..........z"
You don't see how they're going to assemble 2 processors without a staff a 1000 and 100 engineers?
You might want to hurry up and recant that statement...lol
Zardiw writes >>Wow.....you think? I guess if they had a staff of 1,000 and a team of 100 engineers to help......otherwise I don't see how that could have happened..........z
BigGreen101 writes>>You said that many times before over the last two years Z. Light speed is very slow it seems. JBII should have been ready the day they go approval from NYS DEC to turn on the two additional machines. JMO
No trading is what I do day in and day out. I'm talking about investing, you know long term hold.
Taking a long term hold right here without JV's lined up is more akin to gambling.
Amateurish approach to trading don't you think?
Currently no, with the right JV's yes.
Jb only has 1/2 of what he needs, he has the processor - he currently needs JV's for plastic supply and floor space.
the tech is worth 10 times this price in a heartbeat
I'm not looking for any price range in particular, I'm looking for fuel sales and the JV announcements that cement this company's future!
Without JV's this company is overpriced..imo
I'd much rather have fuel sales...lol
I'd much rather low levels of stock sales to fund the company than the hit that comes from venture capitalists or banks.
JBII has almost no debt. If JBII were to do another PIPE at $4 or higher, I'd be happy with that. I'd also try to get in on it.
Let's hope that's the last PIPE/Dilution.
I hope your right!
I'm sitting here watching/listening daily with a front row seat - ready to throw some serious coin in when and if the company ever turns that corner.
When is he going to pound that table with some really BIG REAL DEALS?
Let's forget about cash burn and talk about CASH EARNED.
A net loss is a net loss, and I think you know that.
Annual net loss 14.3 million - last quarterly net loss of 2.8 Million..is that more accurate?
I knew it was spelled wrong just to lazy to look it up...lol
I wouldn't say it's over, I would/could agree that it could possibly trend lower from here. However, it only made up a small percentage of the loss - total R&D was only 288K for all of 2010.
That includes all divisions, not just p2o. i think it was annouced that they were developing a non slip product for marble floors etc.
Currently unrealized so called fact.
Yes, I certainly do know - so why not just focus on the current facts?
Are you sure about that, 3 processors running with the current allowed limits grosses them like 12 million, didn't they just burn through something like 17 million with the two money losing divisions that he briallantly purchased?
I agree that this is a potential growth company. I already gave JB props for what he's done and accomplished thus far ( acheiving maximum allowed capacity of Niagara Falls of 3/4 of a ton per hour with three processors running, with the allowed plastic types 2,4 and 5)
However,I'm not going to get all warm and fuzzy if the next big news release/8k is that processor number two is complete. I think this should have been completed already, and is a non news event.
Just like if the next Big news announcement is that they submitted for patents (big deal - doesn't mean they will be granted) I don't want fluff I want real announcements not Oh we're talking with this one and that one - talk is cheap.
Jb needs sales,sales and more sales to max out the first processor.
Unfortunately, the LOI is currently a huge disappointment that it was announced but never realized after hearing time and time again that there would be NO announcements until contracts are signed.
Couple that with - the LOI was released in conjunction with the news release that they dropped yet another accountant makes it smell just a little of desperation - of having to release something positive at the same time to take the focus off the another accountant change.
This is a growth company. It started with an idea, that became reality in the form of a processor that will eventually change the way the world deals with plastic. Did you think it was going to do it overnight? All is falling into place very nicely. First get the permit and build the machine. DONE Make it work well and get the permit to go into production. DONE Then find a market for the fuel DONE. Then simply repeat. Like the commercial for the hair shampoo REPEAT. That is what we are doing Repeating the success that we have had up to this point. Great things are coming just not all on the same day.
Exactly, from what's been announced they haven't even made a dent in selling the capacity of the first processor, coupled with the price of fuel falling rapidly right now the last agreement signed may very well become worthless. The last agreement with Coco gave Coco the option of purchasing the fuel for 109.80 per barrel this doesn't bode well when the price of oil is currently collapsing from the earlier highs when the option to purchase was signed.
Petroleum Distillate /Diesel Purchases:
JBI INC will start providing a Petroleum Distillate product to Coca Asphalt Engineering- A division of Coco Paving, to be used in it's manufacturing division ( emulsion ) starting June 10th. 2011, at a discount price of $0.69/litre for a one (1) year period with first option of renewal and purchased solely on Coco's approved weekly/biweekly/monthly demand basis.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1381105/000121390011003196/f8k061011ex10i_jbi.htm
On June 10, 2011, JBI, Inc. (“JBI” or the “Company”) and Coco Asphalt Engineering, a division of Coco Paving, Inc. (“Coco Asphalt”) entered into a Supply and Service Agreement (the ‘Agreement”). Pursuant to the Agreement, the Company has agreed to supply Coco Asphalt on a weekly, per demand basis with petroleum distillate at a cost of $109.80 per barrel.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1381105/000121390011003196/f8k061011_jbi.htm
need to give this a rest...its becoming boring. It will happen when JB is ready, not before. First, the company needs to secure more fuel contracts so we have some place to actually put all that fuel from the JV's. The company that we JV with does not have to purchase the fuel (although I hope the first JV's will) they may want to acquire 20% from SALES. Kind of got to have those contracts first.
Anybody close seen if those 30 tonners are up a running? I figure they may be up, but not being ran(other than test batches). Why would they be, we haven't even stressed the 20-ton run capacity with the contracts in hand. The 30-tons will definitely be needed for the Naptha contract if it ever happens. IMO
Getting permitted to do so anywhere and doing it legally - is a completely different story.
The Fact remains, the JBI processor is capable of processing all plastic #1 - 7 period.
No beef Soss - just keeping it real.
No your wrong again. Agilyx is not allowed to process PVC.
1. Agilyx says (see below) it can process all types of plastic (#s 1-7), explicitly mentions PVC (#3) and PET (#1), and is fully permitted in Oregon. The implication is that it is fully permitted in Oregon to process all types of plastic, including PVC. The REALITY is that DEQ prohibits Plas2Fuel (now Agilyx) from processing polyvinyl chloride plastic (PVC, #3) beyond incidental contamination amounts in the pyrolysis unit.
The REALITY is quite different. More specifically, as a result of testimony presented and submitted on the air quality permit to Plas2Fuel Corporation (now Agilyx) in Tigard in February, 2010, DEQ modified the proposed permit to prohibit the processing of polyvinyl chloride (PVC, #3) plastic beyond incidental contamination amounts in the pyrolysis unit.
PVC is of particular concern because of the pollution and health problems it creates through its life cycle. Both the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy and the Center for Health, Environment and Justice refer to PVC as "The Poison Plastic."
>> As a result of that hearing and the comments submitted, and as indicated in the March 9, 2010 "Hearing Officer's Report and Response to Comments," DEQ added two modifications to the permit to Plas2Fuel, one of which prohibited the processing of polyvinyl chloride (PVC, #3) in the pyrolysis unit. The exact modifications to the permit were as follows:
-- "Inclusion of permit condition prohibiting the processing of Type 3/PVC plastic except as received as an incidental contaminant (incidental to be defined as equal to or less than 10% by weight)
Wrong again. AGILYX processes PVC despite being a joke of a company.
You can't bank it till - the check clears.