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Answer: For me, the length of time it takes to do something about it. I have started that process now.
Thanks. Since FFGO is now static as a revoked entity there is no reason not to distribute NMGL A&B's that WD holds. There is no "whole pie" or "changing pie" argument now. It is a static entity now. A distribution could expose the naked short position that could have some legal pop behind it to cover the naked shorts. How about a 20,000 or 30,000% or 100,000% return while we wait for the dividend?
AlanC, thank you. I have emailed the letter to Braun Law Group and hope to hear an email reply soon. If not, I will try calling later today if they don't call me first.
If we pursue this path, I am sure that it will be a long process, but, there will be transparency and a determinate time frame with some ultimate conclusion.
NMGL will still have all kinds of time to start filing quarterly reports, file for ownership of the other half of the mines and actually start communicating to shareholders. Other companies actually have income, assets, sales, large workforces and payroll, buildings and property to maintain. They still find time to communicate. NMGL has no active mining operatons, no income that I am aware of. NMGL should have all kinds of time to communicate to shareholders. They really should be reassuring shareholders their plan to have income, assets, sales.......
I hope that FFGO is in the public eye and that it will make our job easier. Maybe, NMGL will be motivated to finally communicate with shareholders. Otherwise, Rocket, we will need your help to gather the FINRA and REG SHO data that you are the best at obtaining, should it come to that.
Thanks, I would like to send it out tonight to the party that you suggested. I will wait to see if others have input. If so I can make a revision. Otherwise, I will send it off tonight and will post any results tomorrow (if law firm response is received).
You may hope. I think a 3.87 trillion lawsuit has awaken lawyers to the size of naked shorting.
LAWSUIT DRAFT
Law Firm
Me
RE: FFGO Dividend and Fail to Delivers. Possible Class Action Lawsuit.
Shareholders of FFGO were provided through dozens of press releases from around 11/2009 - 9/2010 that they would receive an extraordinary dividend immediately following the sale of Bouse and S. Copperstone gold mines.
FFGO said they owned a portion of the gold mines, but, had the "irrevocable consent" of all third party minority shareholders of the mine. FFGO claimed that they had complete backing of all owners and parties to the proposed sale of the gold mines.
FFGO did sell the gold mines to NMGL. FFGO shareholders never heard any public statements or filings or records from any other "minority shareholders" who collectively totalled more than 50% of the gold mines.
FFGO boldly state that the gold mines were sold. The reality was that FFGO only sold its portion of the gold mines. FFGO apparently lied about having irrevocable consent of all mine shareholders. As of 12/2011 or 15 months after the sale of the gold mines, no sale of the remainder of the gold mine has occurred.
FFGO knowingly lied about the proposed extraordinary dividend. FFGO did not distribute an extraordinary dividend immediately following the sale (or atleast their portion) of the gold mines. The whole time that press releases detailing a dividend were being released, FFGO was working out a deal with NMGL that was completely different than the press releases. The immediate dividend was replaced by an indeterminate dividend that involved many moving parts. These secret dealings coincided with the public press releases. FAQ's (Frequently Asked Questions) were later released on FFGO's website that detailed the "new" way the dividend was now going to be handled.
FFGO received compensation for the gold mines in the form of NMGL A&B's shares to the amount of $258 million dollars per an official filing. To date, these shares have no cash to back them up. The cash is supposed to come in the form of a future mine sale from a cash buyer.
In addition to the dividend, there may be over 5 trillion Fail to Deliver or naked short shares in FFGO. We believe the naked shorting goes back to 2005 or earlier. FINRA's own data support this claim. FINRA neither confirms nor denies this data when confronted with phone calls and emails from FFGO shareholders. We have a myriad of data that we can provide to support our position. Release of FINRA data, we believe, would overwhelmingly help support this position with legal help.
Considering CMKX's $3.87 trillion dollar naked short lawsuit, it is surely reasonable that 5 billion dollars in naked shorts exist in FFGO considering the FINRA and REG SHO data going back for year after year.
We hope that you will advise us if we have a legal case. We would hope that a distribution of the NMGL preferred A&B shares held by Western Diversied, a wholly owned subsidiary of FFGO, would quickly evaporate the limited shares of NMGL A&B shares that FFGO received in compensation for the sale of the gold mines. This evaporation of shares could expose the enormous naked short position that exists. We would take advice as to other strategies as well.
Please let us know what we need to provide for a possible class action lawsuit. How many shareholders constitute a class action lawsuit?
We ask that you take this case, pro bono, understanding that there is a huge naked short position that could compensate your efforts.
Sincerely,
ME
I don't have PM, but, if you like to PM your email, I will give you some extra details. I will be posting a public LAWSUIT DRAFT shortly.
I will submit a draft for approval.
Assuming (a) that the Western Transaction is consummated, (b) that the consideration received by Western is distributed to its corporate parent and (c) that the corporate parent further distributes the consideration to its common stockholders, Sloane would receive no less than 2,853,080 shares of the Company's Series A Preferred Stock and no less than 6,918,987 shares of the Company's Series B Preferred Stock.
distributes the consideration to its common stockholders
Has that happened? Do you have NMGL A&B's?
The 8-K filing should CONSUMATE with the NMGL A&B's. Over 1 year later and we have no "consideration to its common stockholders"
That is not SUPPORT.
Material change. That is a material obligation. A material obligation to file quarterly reports BY LAW. A failure to uphold a material obligation is a material change to me.
"I am not concerned" What concerns you. If it were over, do you think that NMGL would tap you on the shoulder and say, "hey, seven, its over. sorry dude."
Do they?? Did you read the part I italicized? and the questions I posed??
I agree, its not over when "they" say its over. "They" may never say its over. It's over when their actions violate their commitments.
Assuming (a) that the Western Transaction is consummated, (b) that the consideration received by Western is distributed to its corporate parent and (c) that the corporate parent further distributes the consideration to its common stockholders, Sloane would receive no less than 2,853,080 shares of the Company's Series A Preferred Stock and no less than 6,918,987 shares of the Company's Series B Preferred Stock.
Is this transaction consumated? Did the common stockholders receive A&B's? Sloane?
Enough is enough. I am preparing an email to explore our legal options. If NMGL is legitimate, they will not cancel a dividend based on FFGO shareholders flushing out FFGO naked shorts or getting more information about the status of the dividend. I know that they like to ignore investors, but, every company is supposed to give updates quarterly. Asking for such basic information is not "reputational risk." If they want to cancel the dividend over such basic information, they, in my belief, have no intention of delivering the dividend.
I don't know if I want to bite the hand that is supposed to feed me (especially with that "reputational risk" clause). I don't see the harm in exploring our legal options and gathering the knowledge we may need if we BOTH don't get a NMGL dividend and don't get a "dividend forced short coverage" as SevenTenEleven descibes.
Maybe, we could get a naked short case without a NMGL subpoena. Maybe, we could FINRA or FFGO to cough up what we need??
True... Do we wait for NMGL to deliver a dividend? What if NMGL gets revoked. I wonder if NMGL's home state has the same laws on "dividends" as wyoming?? Is there an advantage to "attacking" before NMGL may be revoked??
That is a good point, the "reputational risk" clause and all. Do we want to wait around for NMGL to deliver a dividend?? Do we want to force the issue and risk that they may cancel the dividend they may or may not have an intention of delivering?? Good questions.
Either way we are at the mercy of NMGL if we wait for a dividend or if risk the "reputational risk" clause and anger them to cancel the dividend.
Speaking of revocation. NMGL is on their way to revocation. How does this play for us??
SevenTenEleven, FFGO and NMGL let us swing in the wind with their silence during a suspension and revocation. Well over 1 year later, we still don't have a filing for the "other half" of the gold mines that were supposed to have "irrevocable consent" of the "other minority shareholders." I want to believe that FFGO and NMGL are on the up and up. But, you have to have some doubt (or atleast I do).
If there is no dividend, which there may not be. We have to go after the naked shorts. I am much more sure of the naked short position than if FFGO and NMGL are legitimate and are going to deliver a dividend.
where is that $258M sitting today?
Great point!
Per the filing, in "cashless" NMGL A&B's. It might be a worthy endeavor to go get the NMGL A&B's. If WD were forced to deliver the NMGL A&B's, the naked short would be exposed. There is a specific number of shares referenced in the filing. Those shares of NMGL A&B would run out. The resulting shortage would open the door to a naked short lawsuit for damages.
We might be able to subpoena NMGL to release the details of their agreement with FFGO and other documents in addition to the subpoena of FFGO. Depending on the subpoenad documents, we may or may not have grounds against NMGL. I don't know if they have any cash anyways.
FFGO and NMGL would be forced to communicate and release information to us or we would simply receive a default judgement in our favor.
I would rather believe that the dividend will happen and the dividend will provide a cash dividend and expose the naked shorts as SevenTenEleven suggests. But, without filings showing ownership of the mines (other "half") in over 1 year with the "irrevocable consent" they supposedly had with all the "minority shareholders" and the silence through suspension and revocation they are starting to leave us with no choice in my opinion.
TomSawyer, maybe, a formal Class Action is the way the way to go. Looks like Braun specializes in this area and has a proven track record. I like anyone that has a degree from the London School of Economics with international business law. That was my dream educational path (that almost came true) when I was getting my stateside degree. It wouldn't hurt to talk to them. You might be the best candidate to pursue a phone call or email. Otherwise, I could step in as proxy. If I were to do it, I would send an email and post the results here.
The mechanics of the dividend, I believe, are important. Let's say NMGL has cash proceeds from a mine sale. They are ready to distribute a dividend. They have notified FINRA. What exactly happens next?
In a normal case of a stock split, all shares bearing a specific ticker or number would receive more or less shares which directly relates to a higher or lower price. In this case, cash is merely divided in a different way. The total amount is the same.
Is the value or price a person has in their accounts just like a number or a ticker?? Before FFGO getting revoked, everyone had a positive number based on .0001 X number of shares. That number was universal whether your shares were markers or real shares. Where the actual cash resides is unknown to me???
If NMGL distributes a dividend will it simply be like a ticker or number that have "NMGL A&B's" on them and a positive number attached whether or not they were based on real FFGO shares or naked short electronic marker FFGO shares??
Will the problem be "delayed" until you want to withdraw the actual cash from the brokerage accounts??
Why are these questions and answers so important?? I don't imagine FFGO or NMGL will pop into the scene with an inclusive "FAQ's" or "press releases." If we get a dividend it will merely be an impersonal, unannounced event like the suspension and revocation were. Yes, we might get a record date and all, but, don't expect too much there. We got no communication with the suspension or revocation. I am not holding my breath for any communication on any possible dividend.
So, if there is no communication, we will be left to figure out what happened. Who received what?? A full dividend, a partial dividend? The cash won't exist on withdrawal and Etrade, Scottrade, etc. will have a bucket of excuses why there is no cash to withdraw from NMGL A&B's???
The quicker we uncover WHO has the cash and WHERE it is and WHY it is unavailable, the quicker we can act to get the cash. We need to know WHO to contact for help. We need to have all the data, damages and answers so we can receive the proper help.
I don't want to give them time to circle their wagons so that the aggressor parties can hide our money and flee. Let's "sticky" a template that will allow this board to be ready for action if we get a dividend. We have to start getting the knowledge we need to do battle. Let's go, let's do this!!! GO FFGO BOARD!!!
Yes, MF Global, Lehman, Bear Stearns, CMKX, etc. were all tiny little pinkie companies. NOT.
kazorchian, I was just trying to make the point as to the scale and scope of NSS. When there are lawsuits to the tune of 3.87 trillion and the president speaks to them. Perhaps, it should be very easy to believe that there is NSS here at FFGO despite people's good or bad thoughts about the company.
If that lawsuit were to be successful, it would help the environment (courts, lawyers, etc.) that we need to win the NSS situation here. With a revoked (publicly trading) stock and the dividend from NMGL not a lock. We could use some options.
I am thinking outside the box a little. Atleast, a lawsuit is SOMETHING WE COULD CONTROL. With little to do on the sidelines watching NMGL do nothing?? and shorty laughing?? I feel the need to start thinking of what we can do.
Every time an advocate only blames "management," the real crooks (shorty) laugh and order another round of hurricanes with your money.
I hear John Corzine, CMKX, Goldman Sachs, NITE, JP Morgan, FFGO to name a few laughing now.....
The math makes perfect sense relative to the price paid for the mines versus authorized shares. It is the unauthorized shares that make the dividend, in my opinion, look small. But, of course our advocates ignore 700 trillion in derivatives or a 3.87 trillion dollar naked short lawsuit (CMKX), FINRA and REG SHO numbers.....
If we had something virtually irrefutable like actual damages. Say for example, there was a dividend and only some people got part of a cash dividend then we could show damages. There would be damages as shareholders would not receive a full dividend because their would be more "air" shares than "real" shares. The "shares" in our accounts might not correlate to A&B's because there is nothing to back them up (naked short).
At that point we would have a specific monetary damage. We could then show FINRA and REG SHO data and start to show that the number of shares far exceed the authorized "float." We could then try to get a specific monetary damage for the naked short shares.
Once there are some successful naked short cases with $$ awarded in damages then lawyers will line up even via pro bono to take our FFGO case.
The politicians can only ignore the truth for so long. They will eventually be replaced by voters who vote in politicians that will heed the truth and score political points for cleaning up corruption in our markets.
Rocket, I will hold my FFGO shares even if NMGL went south. I will fight shorty's illegal action. Enjoy your money now, shorty, I will be coming for it later.
AlanC, thanks for your posts on CMKX. I have spent a lot of time today reading about the 3.87 trillion lawsuit. Fascinating read. Looks like this CMKX sting turned out about as well as the Fast & the Furious sting. I think parts of this could be used as a template to springboard the Naked Short situation in FFGO.
irrevocable consent of other shareholders shows someone wants our shares, some day--Rocket
I believe that is referring to FFGO's alluding to have 100% agreement to selling the gold mine. Officially, only FFGO has sold the gold mines. If there is irrevocable consent, it has only been realized by FFGO not the owners of the rest of the gold mines. "Wanting our (FFGO) shares" is not what the passage is about, I believe. Selling gold mines through shares of a gold mine is what, I believe, the passage is about. Calling it irrevocable may be overstepping without any filings or other proof other than the word "irrevocable."
Nothing has changed.
The dividend is still in play from NMGL.
The dividend is still an option from WD (or at least we could get some "cashless" NMGL A&B's).
We might opt for certificate form and expose a share shortage.
The SEC, FINRA could step in to examine FINRA, REG SHO short numbers and force a naked short coverage.
Revocation hearings???? expose shortages????
Possible legal action??? Liability exists.
Still alive and kicking.
Rockets and runaway trains aside, EK will go below .94 unless it gets over 1.13 As I had said, $1 is not a technical point. Unless 1.13 is breached or we get a patent sale or something, look out below.
I am aware of the A-H list. WD "Can't distribute" because of lack of cash not the reasons given by the company, in my opinion. Cash is listed like some 20 times in the FAQ's, but, we still get this notion of "free trading" somehow despite clearly defined face values. True, nothing has been filed over the last 14 months. Some believe we will get a record date without filing for full ownership of the mines, or other filings. Some believe that NMGL is busy behind the scenes and have secretly bought the remainder of the gold mines and will announce the record date at any time. I don't give NMGL the benefit of the doubt in this manner. Others do.
Future A&B's via NMGL or Future A&B's via WD, perhaps.
If No shorts exist and
the Value of the preferreds won't increase
Then $0.003449/share dividend will be in cash and
the company will dissolve --SevenTenEleven
We both know that shorts exist. The short position doesn't increase or decrease the value of the preffereds. They are based on cash face value irregardless of the short position or the price of gold, etc. etc.
The shorts will increase the value of FFGO shares if the SEC, FINRA, etc. force and/or assist the coverage of the NSS position in FFGO.
The value of FFGO can be further increased if the dividend is distributed. Though, without solving the NSS problem first, distribution will expose the shortage of FFGO shares as some might get a dividend and others may not. If FFGO is still trading it may be a little easier to resolve. Otherwise, it may prove more difficult in the case of revocation. I would hope FFGO or NMGL would take the lead and it would not be left to individual shareholders to try to take a class action lawsuit (like MF global employees have recently done).
At that point, the damages would be more "clear" and more easy to litigate. The day may come when we will have to stand as one and file a class action lawsuit like MF global employees to get our "full" dividend and get coverage on ALL short shares of FFGO. I hope that it will not come to that. But, we might start looking at some pro-bono attourneys that might want to take our case when the time comes.
$1 is a psychological "chart point" not a technical one. I hope your $30,000 is well spent. This week will be huge to see if EK can stay above $1. I don't have your kind of money, but, I will attempt to add if we break below $1. Otherwise, trading above $1 is fine also.
Thanks AlanC, atleast I know that NSS exists at FFGO.
I know there is an "asset" in the form of covering NSS shares if the SEC, FINRA, etc. ever choose to do the right thing. So, these shares can always have some value in this sense to me. It is a value that is already built into the value of the share and will remain until it is legally covered or criminally removed.
We could have an additional future value in FFGO shares. If NMGL ever chooses to sell the other half of the gold mine and file accordingly and sell the gold mine and distribute the dividend.
We could also have an additional future value in FFGO shares if WD were to distribute its NMGL A&B and not have to wait for NMGL to sell the gold mines.
Either way, I believe, we will run into NSS issues. Any attempt to distribute a dividend will expose the shortage in shares. Some would receive NMGL A&B's and others would not. Unless the NSS issue is addressed, a fair distribution of the dividend cannot be attained.
I am hopeful that something, someday will force or encourage the government to act upon the NSS in FFGO.
I am much less hopeful that NMGL will ever buy the other half of the gold mines and sell the gold mines and distribute the dividend. It has been a ways over 1 year and NMGL does not have 100% legal ownership of the mines. Ownership is the first step. We have not even cleared that hurdle yet.
So, whatever value may or may not be added in the future. I know the NSS gives FFGO value from the past. I believe that one day this past value will catch up to the present.
Ironic, you have said repeatedly that there are no shorts. But, now if a someone associated with the company is involved, there could be a short? LOL LOL
Company and gold news.
Gold has moved as predicted, though, not as strongly as I had anticipated. As referenced in the post I am replying to, oil has stayed below $100, gold has fell below $1700, the S&P has fallen well below 1200.
The S&P could likely fall to 1100 or worse. Silver could lose $30 support and fall to $26, pushing gold to $1650-1600.
If NMGL has a gold price-based strategy, selling the mines now would be better. Though, NMGL owns less than half the mines according the lone filing. Oh well.
I doubt a dividend will come before a revocation. I doubt NMGL will file ownership for the other half of the mines before revocation. If revocation is around 100 days away, there isn't much time left.
Otherwise, this will be a cert pull or a revocation hearing at best and a revocation and silence at worst.
Whomever (FFGO, NMGL, FINRA, SEC, etc.) avoids payment in the form of a dividend, revocation hearing, short settlement of FINRA & REG SHO numbers is either not enforcing the law or breaking the law in my opinion.
NMGL has over time has shown they are not doing the right thing by not filing, not communicating in quarterly reports and not getting ownership of the other half of the mines. That, to me, is an indication to hold or reduce an FFGO position. It is hard to believe we have a few that claim to want to increase their FFGO positions.
While, the SEC has finally taken some almost "token" efforts at policing the crimes of naked shorting (USB). They have ignored cert pulls (CMKX, energy source) for the most part. USB has been given one year to get their "locates(Fail to Delivers)" in order. The law is 3 days to deliver. Giving USB 365 days for what should be 3 days is really not enforcing the law. There was no mention of delivery in the USB SEC filing.
SevenTenEleven had to go "deep" just to keep some hope alive. His "Wyoming and FINRA" findings keep a chance of a dividend alive. If the possible revocation provides no hearing or no fails to deliver settlement then the hope will dwindle more as we will have no hope of the government helping us with shorty anytime soon or ever?
WE HAVE THE ADVANTAGE!!!
Think about all the laws that would have to be broken to not get a dividend or settlement.
FINRA numbers would have to be ignored.
REG SHO numbers would have to be ignored.
Fail to Delivers would have to be ignored.
NMGL A&B's held by WD on behalf of FFGO would have to be ignored which means an official filing involving 2 companies would have to be ignored.
Pages and pages of FAQ's or FFGO intent would have to be ignored.
Press releases would have to be ignored.
I know there are more...
If market makers are performing illegal activities in FFGO, I want to see justice.
If FFGO or NMGL are pulling a scam as some claim, I want to see justice.
If the government is looking the other way and is complicit, I want to see justice.
Whomever is wrong, justice needs to be served. I will be vigilant to see that end.
There is too much complicity and illegality and commitment to just ignore and just "go away." The wrongdoers in FFGO would really have to go really really far out on a illegal limb for us not to receive a payment or settlement for the dividend and the settlement of shorts. This may drag on for years. But, justice should prevail.
Thanks, the dialogue between you, TomSawyer, and the email from the broker pretty clears up the whole matter to me. It was about what I expected.
removed by the brokers
What does that mean exactly? When FFGO was suspended the symbol that normally says "FFGO" was replaced by a 5 or 6 digit number (can't remember the number). There should be something that remains in your account even in a revocation. I understand that you cannot sell it anymore, but, something should remain.
At the minimum, most companies provide guidance and progress on their current and future purchases or sales each quarter as they report quarterly earnings and/or filings. General communication on what is going on in their company should be provided. This is basic. When was the last time FFGO/NMGL communicated even in a general or quarterly fashion.