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I was responding to someone who keeps using the term "revoked".
I see SPNG with many options that would prevent that from ever happening. This is an example of only one.
JMO,
SpongeBath
Why can't they merge with Vanity?
OK, I get your meaning. Just though your post made things sound too simple. There is always a reason when the EX Date isn't set.
Wonder who the third party is?
SpongeBath
Are you guys reading the same PR I am?
"Due to a delay caused by communication problems between FINRA and a third party in satisfying all regulatory requirements with respect to our proposed five for one forward split which was scheduled to occur on November 2, San West has decided to postpone the effective date of the proposed split until all regulatory requirements have been met. San West notified FINRA of its intent with respect to the proposed forward split on October 9, but was not notified by FINRA of a problem until the afternoon of October 27. As soon as San West became aware of the problem, it took immediate steps to provide all needed information. San West will notify its shareholders of the 'ex-date' of the forward split as soon as possible.
This was not due to PR. Read today's PR. They were notified by FINRA that there were some requirements not met. FINRA notified them the afternoon of 10/27/09 that it had not been approved, and would not be until requirements were met. Company says they started working on it right away, but could take a few days IMO.
They did however, clear up the whole buy before Ex Date thing, and they will be announcing the new Ex Date soon.
SpongeBath
Knew this was coming.
Latest News Headlines for San West Inc
San West, Inc. Postpones Upcoming Forward Stock Split
6 minutes ago - Market Wire
San West, Inc. (OTCBB: SNWT), a Company that designs, manufacturers, sells and repairs off-road vehicles, apparel and accessories, issues update regarding upcoming 5 for 1 forward stock split.
"Due to a delay caused by communication problems between FINRA and a third party in satisfying all regulatory requirements with respect to our proposed five for one forward split which was scheduled to occur on November 2, San West has decided to postpone the effective date of the proposed split until all regulatory requirements have been met. San West notified FINRA of its intent with respect to the proposed forward split on October 9, but was not notified by FINRA of a problem until the afternoon of October 27. As soon as San West became aware of the problem, it took immediate steps to provide all needed information. San West will notify its shareholders of the 'ex-date' of the forward split as soon as possible. The 'ex-date' is defined as the day before which an investor must have purchased the company's stock in order to receive the additional shares. If you purchase a stock on the 'ex-date' for a split or distribution you are not entitled to the split stock or that distribution. However, the opening price for the stock will have been reduced by an appropriate amount, as on the ex-dividend date. Weekly financial publications, such as Barron's, often include a stock's upcoming 'ex-date' as part of their stock tables. San West will notify its shareholders of the effective date of the forward split as soon as possible."
I'll give him a try. I have already talked to him a couple of times though, and he is more of the business man, not so involved in the stock side of things. Easy guy to talk to though, so I'll call him.
By the way I'm in California too.
SpongeBath
What number did you call? I would like to call them myself. It seems they are not getting the message. Also, they have not shown up on the daily list, or the calendar for 11/2/09, or 11/3/09. They should be there if this thing gonna happen. I would like to get some answers, and let them know about the problems we see. This is obviously something new for these guys.
I know it's gonna happen eventually, but market hates uncertainty. Just being on the NASDAQ web site is not good enough. They need FINRA approval, and no way to tell if they got it or not, until they show up on the daily list.
Would love to be wrong about this. Anyone have any input?
SpongeBath
First of all, you have to hold through Monday 11/2/09 (the Ex Date) to get the split, and you have until the end of the day Friday 10/30/09 to buy those shares.
Second: You are asking a fox (valuemanager, a self admitted short seller of this stock) why he would eat chickens.
Third: Did you notice all the pumping by posters on Monday 10/26/09 telling you falsely, that 10/26/09 was the last day you could buy, and get your split shares? Those were likely the same people who were shorting the heck out of this stock yesterday, knowing they had added to the confusion among inexperienced investors, that would cause a slowdown in buying, and many would sell.
I firmly believe you will see the same kind of buying action, and message board activity on Friday (the true last day to get the split) as you saw on Monday. it may even be more intense, since the experienced investors will be buying up this stock at these lower prices.
I also believe there was allot of short covering today (buy volume was 128,000 shares. sell volume was only 94,300), and there most likely will be more tomorrow.
JMHO.
Good luck,
SpongeBath
I believe this stock will experience a slow but steady PPS increase. They are in a solid recession resistant sector. They just needed a big, in demand brand name to generate great revenue. They've got that now with Paula Deen.
Wouldn't be surprised to see some other Food Network licenses to follow. Retailers will jump all over this brand name. Up until now Paula has only had her name and picture on items sold on foodnetwork.com.
In a year, or so, when this is up to $15 a share, everyone will be wishing they bought this at .70.
JMHO,
SpongeBath
Your welcome builder. I tried to tell people this on Friday 10/23/09.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=42850375
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=42852026
But got very few to listen. I didn't have a link like this one to prove what I was saying. Thanks so much for coming up with all those links.
I still feel we were drowned out by the pumping yesterday, which seemed to be just part of the plan to short this stock today.
IMO Friday will run harder than yesterday. Guess we'll see.
SpongeBath
Great firkin job builder. Looks like Ex Date is confirmed as 11/2/09, and that info seems to come from Edgar, since it says powered by EDGAR on line at the bottom of the page.
Great find,
SpongeBath
I been telling people since last week that the true last day to buy is 10/30/09, and saying they need to call their brokers to verify. Been allot of false, or confusing info passed around in the last week, or so. All the pumping yesterday, claiming it was the last day to buy didn't help things much. IMO Friday will run like Monday did, but maybe even higher.
SpongeBath
It's a combination of not buying, and selling. People not buying because they think yesterday was the last day to take advantage of the split, and selling because they think they will still get their split shares even if they sell, since the record date was yesterday. Besides that shorty seems to be taking advantage of those people's lack of knowledge. Investors in the know will be taking advantage of the lower price, since sellers won't get split shares, and buyers will, until Friday 10/30/09. I suspect that some of the same posters telling us that yesterday was the last day to buy, are shorting it today. JMHO,
SpongeBath
No Problem Tuna, but I am not an expert. I'm just an investor like you. Your broker should be able to confirm this. Mine is E-Trade, and I have been very impressed with them so far. I used to have Scottrade, and they impressed me as not so helpful. I usually had to call the toll free number, and move up the chain of command to get good answers.
SpongeBath
You are correct, but it should show up closer to the Ex Split Date / Distribution Date (11/2/09).
SpongeBath
That's right. The Record date is just the date the company records where all the certificated shares are, that includes the ones previously delivered to your broker. If someone sells tomorrow through 10/30/09 they forfeit the split shares, it is the brokers responsibility to track who bought them, and make sure the split shares go to the new owner.
With a true dividend the Ex Date is 3 days before the Record Date. To get a dividend you must own the day before the Ex Date in order to be a "Shareholder of Record".
With a split (Make no mistake this is a split, not a dividend, no matter what the company calls it.) The Ex Split Date is the first day the stock trades at the new price, and the split shares are delivered (11/2/09). If you buy before the Ex Split Date, you are buying shares that were already recorded today as eligible for the split, so the seller loses the split shares, and the new owner gets them.
Ask your broker,
SpongeBath
Read my post again. If you pay full pre split price, you will get the split shares. The rules aren't always fair, but in this case they are.
Not all brokers are up on this, so keep asking for someone else until you get someone who is sure of their answer.
I have been through forward splits before, so I'm sure of what I'm telling you, but you should never just take the word of someone on the message boards. Check for yourself.
SpongeBath
Price will not drop to 1/5TH until the Ex Split Date. That should be 11/2/09. You get the shares, and the price drop on the same day. In forward splits in which I have participated in the past, shares don't just show up in everyone's accounts all at once either. Depending on your broker, you may have shares anywhere from first thing Monday morning, through sometime over the next couple of days.
We will probably see allot of posts saying "I got my shares today", or "I haven't got mine yet". There will be some who think they can sell tomorrow, and still get their shares, because of the Record Date confusion associated with getting dividends.
Forward splits are not like dividends. They follow a different set of rules.
Ask your broker, but from my experience, you can still buy all the way through 10/30/09, and still get the split shares. The rules were designed to prevent investors from getting screwed, or being able to take advantage. As long as you pay full pre split price, you will get your split shares. If the price drops to 1/5TH, you missed the split.
Simple actually,
GLTA,
SpongeBath
Does anyone really think that if they buy tomorrow, at full pre split price, that their shares will just drop to 1/5TH of their value on 11/2/09, and they will get nothing to show for it? If that was really the case, you could expect a huge PPS drop tomorrow through Friday. That is not how it works with a forward split. Even though the company is calling this a dividend, there is actually no difference between a forward split, and this kind of stock dividend. A true stock dividend is when a company spins off a subsidiary, and creates a second public company. In that case you must own the stock 3 days before the record date, or before the Ex Dividend date, in order to get the shares of the new company.
With a forward split, the Ex Split date is the day the new shares are distributed, and the stock trades at the lower price. That date is 11/2/09, not today. Today is only the last day to get certificated shares, not broker owned shares. If you sell tomorrow, you will not participate in the 5 for 1 split. The person who buys those shares will get your 4 additional shares, not you.
You can buy all the way up until 10/30/09, and still take advantage of the split, unless you are buying certificated shares from the T/A.
These rules were made to protect investors. Can you imagine what would happen if what you all are saying was true. Anyone who buys from 10/27/09 to 10/30/09 would pay pre split price, and then have their SNWT portfolio reduced by 4/5THs on 11/2/09, with no shares added to your account. It does not work that way.
Call your brokers, and do some research.
SpongeBath
Check out this video chart of SNWT.
Anyone notice the 3 to 1 buys over sells, yet the MMs holding the price down. They took it down on buying.
Either someone special wants in, or holding it down for shorts to get out. This can only last for so long.
JMHO,
SpongeBath
VM, I really don't understand why you insist on trying to discourage me from my investment choice. As with many penny stocks, SNWT has no P/E because there are no earnings to report as yet. This stock is priced the way it is because of a small share structure, it's a business people can relate to, and the speculation that comes with any new public company. Many other stocks have a share price that bares no relation to earnings because they have none. At least this one has revenue, and whether or not you think so, it is growing.
It is not fair to lump the ATV, UTV, and dune buggy business in with RV sales. Sales of motor homes, campers, etc. have suffered during this economy, but these are big ticket items.
I really don't think you understand the southwestern desert mentality. Nearly everyone goes to the desert to camp, and enjoy time with their families. This includes dirt bikes, ATVs, UTVs, dune buggies, and 4x4s. This company has strategically placed themselves in the heart of these activities with products priced considerably below their competition. They have chosen to expand through partnerships, and acquisitions, at a time when the economy is beginning to recover in their area. I grew up in So Cal, and I am familiar with how this area can snap back with a vengeance on any economic turnaround.
Try calling Brian at Buggy world 696-258-8770, and ask him how good business has been the last 9 weeks. This business doesn't just make their money by selling vehicles. The majority of their profit comes from accessories, and repairs. Their best time of year is starting right now. People who already own these vehicles, are improving, and repairing them for the season.
I don't think you really have any idea what their earning will be. I don't either, but it is my choice to speculate, and this is an industry I understand well. In fact, I am planning to buy one of these vehicles for myself.
What I don't get is, if you have already covered your short position at a loss, why are you trying to discourage me, and others from buying, or holding this stock.
I'm trying to be amiable, but your negativity is beginning to border on bashing.
SpongeBath
VM, Microsoft currently has negative revenue, and earnings growth. Show us an example of a stock with 945% revenue growth, and the potential earnings growth that represents, and let us know what the P/E of that stock is. A P/E number is based on what a company is expected to do in the future.
Let's not compare apples to oranges.
SpongeBath
Thanks Steve, I read this, and the source you provided. The last part about what happens if I sell between the Record Date and the Payable Date, leads one to believe they will still get their split shares. This is just not true. In a split the Ex Split Date is the first day the stock trades at the lower price and without benefit of of the split. That date is the same as the Payable Date, or the Distribution Date mentioned in the PR.
With a dividend the Ex Date is 3 days before the Record Date. This is not true for a split.
No one will be allowed to sell after the Record Date at full pre split price, and still receive 4 more shares on the Distribution Date. That would have the same affect financially as a 9 for one split.
If you sell before the Distribution/Payable/Ex Date, you will not receive your split shares. If you buy before and hold on that date you will participate in the split.
Ask your brokers.
SpongeBath
Thanks 777, but this isn't about being right. Investors money is too important for them to be confused. Just hope everyone finds out the facts, and don't make any mistakes.
Ask your brokers.
GLTY,
SpongeBath
No problem Triple Seven. I just want to help if I can. The record date means something totally different for a split vs a dividend. It was explained to me, that on the record date there is an accounting of the location of all the shares. At that time the brokers simply take note of what is in each account. If anything is sold before 11/02/09, and bought by someone else, they track it. The person who sold will not get the split shares, they will follow the buyer of those shares. In this way, who ever buys before 11/2/09 gets the split shares, and who ever sells won't.
As I have said, ask your broker, and if they can't give an answer, move up the chain of command, until you find someone who knows for sure.
JMHO,
SpongeBath
P.S. In the PR they mention a Distribution Date of 11/2/09. They do not mention the Ex Date. The distribution date should be the first date the stock trades an it new 1/5Th price.
It is possible according to the broker that the Ex Date will be the 3rd, so I could be off 1 day. The PR does not include an Ex Date. My bet is on the 2ND. So am making sure I have all my shares by the EOD 10/30/09.
Stocks will not show up in every one's accounts all at once.
Vehicle price comparison. Polaris Ranger vs what San West can offer.
Polaris Ranger $10,799: http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Ranger/2009/800/RZR/Pages/features.aspx
Trooper T2, under !0,000 (Call Buggy world): http://www.buggyworld.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=34&Itemid=10
Or these two from County Imports: http://www.countyimports.com/inc/sdetail/18568
http://www.countyimports.com/inc/sdetail/17247
Who wouldn't want to be in this business, being able to beat your competition this bad?
JMO,
SpongeBath
Does anyone here really think they can hold through the 10/26/09, sell at full price between 10/27/09 and 10/30/09, and still get 4 shares for each one they sold before 11/2/09? What do you think there is some way to make this into a 9 for 1 split? Come on people lets get realistic here. Don't trust something this important to posters on this board. Please don't even believe what I'm saying. Call your brokers, and do some research.
GLTA,
SpongeBath
P.S. My apologies to anyone on this board who is trying to help. This stuff is very confusing, especially if you are used to cash dividends, and stock dividends from other companies. A true stock dividend is one where you get stock in a company other than the one you are invested in. This is not a stock dividend it is a forward split. Big difference.
IF YOU SELL BEFORE 11/2/09, YOU WON'T GET YOUR SPLIT SHARES. They will go to who ever buys your shares before that date. Call your broker, and ask.
SpongeBath
10/30/09 IS THE LAST DATE YOU CAN BUY AND RECEIVE 5 for 1.
I was a bit confused myself after reading all these posts, so I called E-Trade. Stock splits work totally different than cash dividends. With cash dividends, the EX DATE is 3 days before the RECORD DATE. If you don't buy before the EX DATE you will not get the dividend. With stock splits the EX DATE is the first day the stock trades at the new (lower) price, and the extra shares are added to your account. The PR announcing the 5 for 1 split says that date is Monday 11/2/09, so the last day to buy is 10/30/09. In a stock split the RECORD DATE does not have the same significance as with a cash divide payment. In both cases the EX DATE is the important date. The PR should have mentioned the EX DATE, but many companies leave it up to the investor to know.
Please contact your brokers to find out if what I am saying is true, but I know I have read this before (can't remember where), and E-Trade assured me that this is how it works.
To me it is the only way that makes sense.
GLTA,
SpongeBath
SD,
Thanks for clearing all that up. One question. Does the 10Q show only numbers for San West, including while they were not a public company, or are these numbers mixed with Human BioSystems. Was hoping you would respond, as I was not sure what I was reading. This was also reason I was not going to refer to the actual numbers. Decided to get info from Brian Britton on where they are headed, and not where they have been.
TIA,
SpongeBath
Neither are desperate bashers, and short sellers, anxious to spin anything into bad news. Let's wait and see the rest of the filings, and see how they get spun.
SpongeBath
Thanks, for the reply lad. I like to go gold prospecting, and taking my dogs out to the woods. This is the one I want.
http://www.countyimports.com/inc/sdetail/18568
It's available through County Imports. Look at the price, and try to compare to the name brand UTVs. I found out about how the partnership with San West works. County Imports sells them either with free delivery, or to be picked up at Buggy World. Buggy World gets to sell, and install accessories, and does all servicing, and repair. That's the part that makes all the $$$. Real win/win situation for these guys.
SpongeBath
I have to make a correction. I called Brian again, and he said business has been off the hook the last 9 WEEKS (not months), and he expects a huge Q4 2009.
SpongeBath
Q3 won't reflect their high season. Per Brian they have been experiencing great sales for the last 9 months, but Halloween is the start of their seasonal high. Q3 may be good as well, but expect Q1 2010 to be their best ever. Sorry best ever not really saying much since they have only been public since 5 June 2009. They are however IMO trying to corner the dune buggy, and ATV market in So Cal, and doing quite well at it as far as I can see.
Did you read this post, and check the first link?
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=42770929
They are at the top of the search. Also searched dune buggy sales Escondido, CA.
This is near their other location, and again at the top of the search. What great locations.
SpongeBath
VM, I'm an investor, and a trader. If SNWT turns out to be a trade, so be it, but from what I can see, SNWT would be a fine investment as well.
They have positioned themselves to be the go to retail, and repair shop for all things dune buggy, and ATV, strategically placed in the heart of dune buggy, and ATV paradise. This is a huge business in So Cal. Can't wait for the 2009 10K, and especially the 10Q for Q1 2010. These will come out during the peak of the So Cal off road season, and should show excellent revenue growth.
God luck on your position, but IMO this stock is going much higher, especially post split.
SpongeBath
County Imports has free delivery, on many of their ATVs. I forgot to ask about that when I called Buggy world, but they sure have some awesome products a great prices.
SpongeBath
Funny, the reverse merger was only finalized on 5 June, 2009.
SpongeBath
Search dune buggy sales Dan Diego, CA. Buggy World comes up first. Second is a San Diego area search, and again Buggy World comes up first.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS307US307&q=Dune+buggy+sales+San+Diego%2c+CA
San Diego is the closest city to dune buggy heaven, Glamis, CA