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Sure. The big news has been the completion of the labels deals. That's over, for now anyway. They're uploading the Warner library, that will take some time, and then a launch. Great. Then it needs to start generating big income, that's the expectation of the labels and the marketplace. That's the primary focus, I agree. Being in "pre-revenue" I know has been the focus before, now it's a different ball game, and now there needs to be a focus on how the pps is going to reflect value, we can only wait to see. If it doesn't, then the Qtrax separation must become the primary focus, and that's what BLLN shareholders (and Qtrax shareholders for that matter)are owed an explanation about. It doesn't take long to do that, if we're talking about getting real. It doesn't take two years or more to get around to doing that.
But, hey, it's looking good so far, and I wouldn't be saying that if Warner's hadn't come into the picture.
There's nothing wrong with my fingers, what makes you think that?
If the stock is not pricing in the value of the subsidiary, yes, that is a problem, but it suggests to me that for a variety of reasons, the market knows that BLLN is not going to be worth much, from what I've heard. I'm not trying to down the stock, I am long, but it is just what I have heard and continue to hear. Most commentary is like that, I hope it changes, and so would you apparently.
If the news has been all good so far re the player, contracts, etc, and still the value isn't being factored in, then what is the reason for the market's concern? Is it the conditions of the Qtrax investment and the dilution affect on BLLN? That's what the market seems to think, and it seems to be what you think too for that matter, so another sample response.
From this point of view alone, BLLN shareholders should be very concerned, yes, and do something about it, like getting an explanation from the CEO of the company in which they own shares, what has happened to the value of their shares, and why does not the pps increase on such good news. That is a reasonable question for shareholders to ask of a CEO, they ask those questions all the time in my understanding. It isn't a matter of being cocky as you say, it is a business question. But I guess if you think it is being cocky you won't have the gumption to ask.
So, are you going to ask? That is all there is left for you to do. You won't get anywhere else here, as you have seen.
Ok (and yes I saw the edit). Listen, the opinion that I have consistently heard (apart from this board of course) is that BLLN shares are never going to be worth much, pretty much because of the reasons you are saying too. So, what you say cross-references other opinion I've heard, so I know you are around the issue - to an extent! I've only heard that Qtrax shares might be worth something. Sure, I'm worried about the value of BLLN shares, but it is not a new worry to me, it has been like this for a very long time, and I guess I've had time to get beyond that, whereas others are still fretting about it. I hope the opinion that I got turns out to be wrong, but so far it is corroborated by others as well, so it still has credibility as far as I'm concerned - and, of course, the BLLN pps isn't going up as we can see.
If Qtrax shares are what are going to be valuable, why aren't you concerned that you don't know when or if you are getting them. If you trust that everything is going to be fine there, then why even worry about the BLLN pps now? Maybe that's how the rest of the people looking at BLLN are thinking, and that's another reason why the pps doesn't go up.
You still need to clarify these things with AK, whether you believe that or not.
You say "there is no way they could sell there issued shares prior to you selling yours..impossible".
Why? What's to stop it?
...so, have the Qtrax direct investors been given some advantage? Why don't you ask that question of AK? If you haven't already. Then you might get some answers.
Go ahead and outline how the Qtrax shares are going to be issued, be my guest, if you know. That is the important issue as you say.
But so what, qcrap. everyone knows this stuff. If all you are going to do about it is post here, that isn't going to achieve anything frankly. You don't sue BLLN, you bollox, (as usual you only know half the story), you get an attorney to tell them that you will get SEC involved to find out about shareholdings in Qtrax, etc, unless they give you the information you require - and you want it from AK (that should be too difficult, after all you say there are only 6 people working there, including a receptionist and the person working on the player, so they probably won't know much.)
And no, you're right, if liddle-ol-you just phones up, they'll tell you to go away. What makes you think they wouldn't. Play ball, don't just talk about it. It would be better to have a group of shareholders, but if that worries you, you will have to do it yourself. I know that is a precarious prospect, but you can only do your best.
Can you get an attorney to phone them? (after telling the attorney your concerns. BTW, the concerns must be something the attorney can actually DO something about, not that the pps is 2 cents!!! (Just in case you didn't know, which is likely.)
Get to work.
That's fine, but it isn't going to achieve anything by qcrap saying the same thing over and over. Is it?
I agree with him, people need to demand some answers from AK as shareholders, not demand answers here, no one knows them.
It would be better for a group of shareholders to get together, get an attorney who phones up the company. I believe it is as simple as that, provided you have an attorney who knows the right questions to ask.
Qcrap, why can't you organise that?
DO something about it then, instead of wasting typing space here. Get an attorney, phone up the company and demand to speak to AK to get some answers. Why can't you do that?
luckyb,I am impressed by the achievement with the labels, it is certainly a very good outcome and a credit to AK and the team. Let's hope the pps sees a rise on developments from here. I get the feeling the company will move quickly now, because they have more control over direction now. We will see.
I don't think there would be many posters here who don't think I have been more than sceptical about this. I have been very realistic, I think my posts clearly show that. Who wouldn't be given the decline in the pps over the years. I am only too well aware of that, as are thousands of others no doubt. Most of those aren't here though are they. I am, that must tell you that I scrutinize this very closely, and I have no intention of just walking away. I believe this company nearly folded in the pre-AVDI/Qtrax days, but only because of the joint decision of those there at the time, including AK, did it continue. They sought out a merger option which was an unbelievably tortuous exercise, came up with a qtrax prototype and went to work. It has been an unbelieveably hard road, most people have no idea how hard, and always on the edge.
After all that, up to this very point, AK has achieved what he said he was going to achieve, that is a good point. No one can deny that, it is a major achievement. The job is not finished though, everyone knows that. That's why the pps isn't going up, plus, of course, dilution and capital raisings. If you have a shareholding interest in this, which you say you do, then you should be making all possible enquiries to find out what is going to happen with BLLN shares, not be wasting your time here.
Are you not confident enough of taking that the next step, so you just vent here? I think so.
If they have persisted for eight years and now reached this point, what is their motivation in your view? To have it fail now? Look at the demographic, this could well be AK's last shot at big success, if this falls over, where is his credibility? He knows that, he's a smart guy.
Do you now or have ever worked for BLLN or AK?
No, the credibility issue is simply because people have heard it all before. The pps used to go up on announcements but not significantly since midem, except to benefit flippers.
I don't think having financial reports is going to do much for the pps, are they? Why do you grab at straws just to make a post, no offence, but that is naive in the extreme given what you've already said about the company. Don't post for the sake of putting a view down, honestly, it is embarrassing for you, even if you don't know it. Do you have someone to talk to about what you want to post before you post it. It sure doesn't sound like it. Really, qcrap, you don't think things through before you hit that post button. It is saying volumes about you.
They need to start making money through ads, just like google did at the same point in their development, imo it's as simple as that. The doors are open now for them, which must have come as a surprise to you, the financial problems have not gone away, do they ever for new companies? Yes, I guess when they start making money. AK knows that. If anything, the pressure is really on now, there are no more obstacles with labels - until license renewal comes up anyway. They will need to move their a$$ now, they know that.
Do you now or have ever worked for BLLN?
You're right, I can afford to spend as much time as I like here. I post when I think there is something to find out...with yourself that looks increasingly unlikely. You seem to post, then not read the responses very closely, focus on emotional aspects, then not know what to do about your shareholding - except complain. You're clearly not an attorney, and not a business mind either, more like a receptionist or some occupation like that - although if you were that, you wouldn't have the time to be posting here when you do as often as you do. Have you got anything new or revealing or in-depth to add to the common knowledge about the company, or if not, why do you post here?
If I was in charge of your finances, you would probably be doing a lot better than you apparently are, especially if you spend so much time here!
You seem to know people in the company from what you've said, why don't you phone up and ask to speak with AK instead of just wasting time complaining here. How is "more communication" going to give you a fighting chance to make money on your investment? That's the sort of naive statement which should make you worry about your own finances, not mine.
How many female employees are there at the company?
I've been reviewing this investment for a long time and could have sold out a long time ago, but the reason I invested in this outfit in the first place (long before Qtrax was even heard of by the way) was because of the faith I had in the ability of AK and those who were with him. Qtrax as a model has been around for a long time now, but it is only now that all the pieces have fallen into place - except revenue (yet).
Of course Qtrax won't be the only free offering available, but whoever comes into the game has to go through the same hoops, whether they have the money or not. It is not a quick fix for anyone. Just have a look at Spotify:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/feb/11/digitalmusic-downloads
They had the money, or enough anyway, but now they will have to deal with the labels, and they had better be very good negotiators and have very deep pockets for a very long time. They've jumped the gun as well, and now have to dig themselves out of a hole. That could take years. Google wasn't the only free offering as an internet search engine was it - there was looksmart, and a whole lot of others. Why do you suppose Qtrax will need to be the only free offering in order to succeed. In my experience, that NEVER happens in business, there's always competition. You're displaying quite a lot of naivety if you think that should be or is the case. No way.
You say "we" only have 6 employees. Like, who? You and five others? If Chris Roe is working on the player, you sound like you're answering the phones! LOL. No offence, but that's how you come across. You have an "organisational" level perspective on things, very black and white. So from that, I know you are not very sophisticated about these things. However, you may know something that you don't appreciate the significance of, so it's your dime, keep talking. Business people know very well how to conduct buyouts around financial difficulties, I wouldn't worry about that. The only worry is for BLLN shareholders to get a Qtrax shareholding, and for the company to start making money. If you think AK should be saying something about this or other things, I think I agree with you. What are you going to do about it, if you feel so strongly about it.
Fantastic! "Watch this Space"?!
Don't worry, I'm watching. I've been watching for eight years, as it happens.
I've posted your link to a global traditional music fan site, that has about 50K users, and that's not including non-registered readers. That will generate possibly thousands of new Qtrax members - IF, IF, IF the site works for godsakes.
Nothing you're saying is new, that's the problem. Everyone already knows the problems. If anyone was thinking they were going to get rich quick from BLLN any time over the last, what is it now, eight years or so, they'd have realised a long time ago that it ain't quick, and that it has all depended on whether finance has been available to keep going. So far, it has, and now there is a good product in place supported by major contracts.
"Versions of free" as you say take money to have in place. Other players are going to have to go through the same process as BLLN - finance, contracts, licensing, blah blah. Of course the labels have nothing to lose if this fails - if they did, they probably wouldn't support it. So what? As it happens, they probably have a stake in it, so there is every reason to think that it won't fail.
None of what you say is news or a problem. The problem is the value to shareholders. Most people would have invested in this as a business/investment decision - not because the Qtrax splash page was going to look good, or even to download music. Two totally separate issues. I don't invest in WMG just because I like their taste in music. I would invest because they are profitable and that will result in a good pps. Same with BLLN. The problem is now, simply and all, that they have to start making money, AND, they have to tell shareholders what the situation is going forward with the Qtrax/BLLN share allocation.
So, qcrap, if you have any information about that, or can find out, you're welcome to post it, imo. Otherwise, what you are writing is non-event no news.
From shareholders?
What about capital raisings? Is there any possibility of that?
Something is not right here you say? There's nothing not right except they need to start making money or get bought out, or both. That will make the pps go up imo. Without the Warner announcement that would have been problemmatic, but the announcement by itself wasn't going to push up the pps much apart from the flippers buying on rumour and selling on news. The way I see it, Qtrax is now on the starting blocks, not at the finish line. The company imo will now start to focus very much on revenue to add value, they have limited time now to prove up. I wonder where the revenue will go, to Qtrax, or to BLLN.
Did you buy any more shares?
What do you know that others apparently don't?
Apparently. Very understanding. I thought you might see the potential for any insensitivity.
I've got plenty of those blue chips, but thanks.
I will be holding my BLLN stock, it has lost so much value now over the last eight years, it isn't really worth selling anyway. At this stage, there is a potential of a lot of upside, and very little left to lose in downside - as long as I don't buy any more, it's a possibility but doubtful until I hear what is going on with the allocation (or not) of Qtrax shares. I went through this realisation years ago, but I can see a number of people here who've been holding this stock for only a few years are going through now or have yet to go through the same realisation. They are dealing with it by averaging their price down. That may work, it may not, as usual.
If they, and all of us, are fortunate there may be a good result at some point hopefully sooner rather than later. I have done more hard yards with this stock than anyone else here, so if it succeeds I will be rewarded for holding out, if it fails, I don't have much more to lose. Not a big adjustment. Swings and roundabouts isn't it. What I am concerned about mainly is fair treatment as as BLLN shareholder. So far, I don't think that has happened. If I sell my BLLN shareholding, do I have the ability still to formally question this company. Maybe not. I won't be going away, at least until the final curtain.
I guess it depends which corporate entity receives the income doesn't it and how much? And I would have thought that if you don't know how much dilution has happened to BLLN - and Qtrax for that matter, you actually don't know whether 1.5 is a bargain or way overpriced. Do you?
If I had a financial adviser telling me to buy these while we don't know these things, I would be concerned. I'd feel a lot better if I knew right now what interest I would be getting in Qtrax through my BLLN holding - but we're not being told that are we?
Why?
The BLLN pps could actually drop when/if Qtrax launches separately couldn't it? Who is going to buy it for why?
There are more unknowns here than a minefield.
A tsunami is a particularly unfortunate metaphor, hundreds of thousands of people are tragically killed and the lives of millions of others affected by natural catastrophes like that. The world's sympathies went out to all those who were killed. Hopefully the financial assistance that was/is given was enough to make a difference to the tragic effects.
I find this mad rush to buy BLLN stocks intriguing. There has been a lot of commentary on this board that Qtrax is going to be spun-off, or launched, or floated as a separate entity, it actually seems as though it is a separate corporate entity already, although no one seems to know for sure. If it is the case and there has been a lot of dilution of perhaps both stocks, why do people who are rushing to buy BLLN now think that the BLLN share price is going to boom on the next announcement? Or don't you? If the big money out there knows that Qtrax is going to launch separately at some point, why will they be buying BLLN shares now, or later? Are you actually buying them or just talking about it? Are you selling them as well?
My understanding is that BLLN shareholders are to be given a shareholding in Qtrax on a ratio (still to be determined/advised), e.g. 1 for 10, 1 for 6. That is what I mean by "compensation" in a general use of that word.
How would a decision be made on how to compensate BLLN shareholders? Would it be something to do with market capitalisation, or something else. I mean, is it an arbitrary decision as to what you would get as a BLLN shareholder, or is there a formula used in these matters, do you know?
(PS - I thought Brilliant was a subsidiary of LTDnetwork. LTD still exists, as far as I know, it is registered in Delaware and Australia. What is its function now, presumably it has one because its registration was renewed in November last year for the standard period of five years I think.)
I ask this because I understand that there were legal challenges by some ex LTD shareholders to the share allocation made in AVDI after the reverse merger three(?) years ago, maybe four now. I think the matter was settled out of court (which is encouraging in itself), but seems to point to some perceived problem in the calculation of ratio shareholdings by the company. So, here we are facing a similar situation with Qtrax now, and correct me if I'm wrong, but no one at all of the BLLN shareholders seems to have been advised of anything at all about the exact ratio or when and how it is to be effected. Same old problem though, I realise that.
Well it looks like it took a year to translate anyway!!
Post some news about a launch announcement, GoQ, that will be on topic. What do you think will happen to Brilliant as a company once Qtrax is launched as a separate entity, if that is the case? Brilliant will need to continue and be funded would it not? (or be funded to continue, if that is a more appropriate description.) How likely is it that Brilliant will attract funds if Qtrax is operating as a separate entity?
We will see what the law requires a long time before any "launch"; and while we're on the topic, on the trackrecord here, I wouldn't believe everything you were told, if I were you.
Wrong...it isn't good enough to know only after it happens. What do you mean by "of course"? BS. We need to know *way before* it happens and be given the wherewithal to sell our shares in Qtrax on the first day it trades (if it trades), not the next day, not "soon after", not two years after - we need equal treatment with the people who are investing in Qtrax directly. Before it happens, and I'm pretty sure that is what the law requires.
You won't get an answer here buddy...they don't like the question, maybe because they don't know the answer, and they don't know how to find it. I've raised the same thing here a number of times, and they think it is a negative question. Go figure. You need to take your own action imo, but keep asking anyway and see what happens. Good question.
Well, I hope you get a win every now and again. If you operate on the basis that you can afford to keep losing because it's only a game, I don't know what you call that - gambling? Sure doesn't sound like investing to me.
On a positive note: good to see all the posters-who-like-qtrax-but-aren't-here-anymore-but-check-in-anyway, monitoring the ihub board so closely. LOL. Do have a pleasant evening and stayed tuned well into the early hours.
Goodness me, thirsty, surely you know about a certificate, or a statement, call it whatever you like that a company has to *give*, to state, to issue, to an original investor confirming they have a shareholding. This is then given to a broker - the first time. After that, when shares are trading, of course they don't issue a stock certificate every time (as you say that used to be done), but not since sharetrading went electronic. Brilliant Shareholders got one (eventually, I hope)after the reverse merger took place between LTDnetwork and Advanced Technologies Ltd, which later became known as Brilliant Technologies, I understand, to throw off the huge shortselling that was being done at the time - what now, about four years ago?
You did, and got a negative response. What are you going to do now, post it here? So what. You don't think there is a problem? I do.
So why did Brilliant Technologies issue stock certificates after the reverse merger, original to the shareholder, and notification to brokers? Are you saying they are invalid?
So where is the notification to current BLLN shareholders of what is to happen to their shareholdings re the direct investments in Qtrax - considering the launch apparently was supposed to be "yesterday", or "last year", or "soon".
Some people don't give up as easy as that. If there's something to answer for, they should answer for it.
So you ring the company and ask about your holding in Qtrax, you get an answer that you can't be told, and you're fine with that. Aw, that's great. What happens now, have another coffee?
If you don't think there is a problem with a company raising direct investment capital in its chief product and apparently issuing shareholdings, and not telling existing shareholders how they will be compensated or get a holding in this "separate investment entity", I just don't know what else to tell you. Most people I know would be pretty horrified to see this happening and not be told anything at all - zippo. I have told you before what happened to my stock certificates, why do I have to keep saying it. Yes, there was a problem, a big one, I was not the only one.
Didn't you read the post recently about LTDnetwork shareholders taking a legal action against this company because they claimed they did not get a sufficient shareholding in the merged companies? What do you make of that? Just a bunch of ingrates?...or the company isn't big on communication and paperwork and tying up those pesky loose ends - like shareholder rights. Sound familiar? It's still happening dude. This time it's your shares. You want "every man for himself"? You got it.
Good question. How about you ring the company and ask them. The more people who do that the more likely you'll get an answer from them in my opinion. Don't ask them if shareholders are going to get screwed though, they aren't likely to say yes to that any time soon are they. Ask them how your BLLN shareholding translates to a Qtrax holding and when you will get a stock certificate or other compensation. If you don't get an answer come back here and tell us. You might have to go after your own certificate with this one.
Do you think Regulation D allows the issue of stock certificates in Qtrax without existing or potential BLLN shareholders being informed of what is happening and how they will be likewise compensated? Otherwise, how can BLLN shareholders do due diligence?
Are cash dividends being paid to management and/or staff?