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4sm?
Rats..
they normally come out with the 3am wake up call.
must have missed it
Well,...
I'll WARN WALL STREET about leaving these two under gov't control on a temporary basis has been a fraud on american citizens and shareholders alike. They need to fix this now or face dire consequences.
See..
They've been Warned !
Yellen is an idiot.
Enough already with the 'warnings' this is stupid.
Darn it...
Get it done already and stop the excuses.
These people are petulant ninnies - lets get it done already!
Come on man... get it done.
Navy,
These nay sayers are either trying to salt the pond or idiots.
Releasing F and F is easy as 1 2 3. It was easy to put them in (by decree) it would be easy to take them out.
Key thing is the desire to want to do it and the ability to return billions stolen from them.
All is possible...
If, they really want to . its always been this way. Are they all talk and no action?
Doing this is just like...
issuing new stock ... if the warrants were cancelled instead of sold / remarketed it would be far easier to raise capital.
Continue his work?
That suggests he's actually done something... which he's not... so continue what? Ordering Pizza?
You know.. there could be some actions that create a quick decision on that hearing, so not having to wait 6 months; but maybe 2-3 week turn, which would be unheard of; but there is always a chance.
Fingers crossed.
Hoping this thing gets done asap.
sps paid in full / warrants canceled and 100B back to the gse's would do it.
Cheers,
The warrants are a non starter and should be voided. Four years from now when the next admin takes over, this issue will be long and over with and settled.
But, the warrants are fruit of a poison tree. They create way too many problems.
Any settlement has to consider the warrants. Which will be voided. in my opinion.
The disgust i have here is that
had the administration actually wanted the gse's back in private hands, they could have done it 3 years ago.
Heck, i could have done it in a matter of weeks.
For whatever reason, its been a game of waiting for no reason.
Bove is an idiot.
Sorry. Warrants must be cancelled. If they want out... otherwise ... its not going to happen.
lol
She is a nut job
This would be true... if the liquidation preference also went away. As it is now, the 4th amendment adds 100% of the equity to the SPS Liquidation Pref and thus; right now the companies each have 0 equity that goes to the Jr. Prefs or Common.
This is the travesty of the NWS and the mythical liquidation pref they created.
This has to stop!
No..
Thats' a severance package.
YeS...
We could do a crowd funding to pay calbarbra his "salarY" for the next 3 years... just maybe he'll do his job and we can get free of the chains.
True.
Unless and until the shareholders are treated fairly, no new "smart" money will invest unless the terms are ridiculously favorable; which would be horrible for the entities and probably be on terms that only a russian mafia man would propose and a poor sucker would take.
There is too much risk associated with putting fresh money in this dumpster fire they've created.
Anyone who argues differently either has an agenda, likely paid agenda, or simply is as fresh as the driven snow. Book learned but not street smart.
Poor MC... if he don't have a cheeseburger in his hands he's not gonna doe nuthin.
He's only marginally better than twat.
At least you could count of mel to do absolutely nothing except hit on the women.
But, MC... he's still in neutral.
What a total waste of time.
Wipe already... and get off the pot.
amazon trades at 3200 a share.
Do you think anyone that really matters to the majority of the investment banks?
So...
If fannie and freddie were fair valued at 130 a share and sold less shares at a higher price.. do you reall ythink it matters?
So they sell 2Billion shares at $100 a share or 4 billion at $50. raise same amount of money.
i say, take the collar off and let them be; put the news out there, relist them, cancel the sps and the warrants. Give back 50-75 billion. Let the share price reflect true market and then go raise some capital.
but anything done with out canceling the warrants and the sps and returning some money stolen is artificial and faux.
Come on Man,,,, do it right and stop screwing the investors.
Pretty Stupid idea overall.
Cancel the darn things.
If they cancel them - it would favor everyone proportionally to their ownership interest.
I vote the shredder.
Bove tries..
But he;s like calabria... not got it.
Why in the world would any new investor trust the governemnt after being screwed the way they've done to the exisitng shareholders.
Best way to entice new investor money is to treat the existing shareholders fairly, have integrity and do thigns right.
taking 80% of the value here for free is not fair.
Totaly agree chess/
No settlement without 'warrants' being torn up and shredded...
The junk bond thing should be front and center...100% agree.
Federal regulators have directed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to start purchasing $40 billion a month of underperforming mortgage bonds as the Bush administration expands its options to buy troubled financial assets and resuscitate the U.S. economy, according to three people briefed about the plan.
Wonder how much that cost Fannie and Freddie... to pay for buying bad loans and then foreclosing or reselling the bad loans into the market place.
Sure put all the risk on Fannie and freddie... that was
a big reason they took these two.. so they could prop up the banks.
by bailing them out.
This was never a bail out of fannie and freddie.. put purely a path or a way to bail out others.
I wish those documents "sealed" would be released in my life time.
Lambrath don't care.. he's bought and paid for by the government.
Imagine being a judge and not caring at all.
Calabra is a clown and makes a mockery of the office he hold on tight to.
Factually, if he'd have actually wanted to get something done, considering he's immune from congresss.... and the preseident... get it done.
Imagine all that power .. and his main concern is what's for lunch.
everyone should send the poor slob a salami on rye...
He's worse than Mel Twatt... in that twatt was completely incompetent, but seemingly this mo ron actually could have done something other than play at it...
in my book, punt him to the side and lets get a guy like ross perot or lee iaccoa who could get things done.
Not totally sure but the author really doesn't seem to know what they are writting about.
fact is fannie and freddie have been solvent throughout the 2000's; from an operating position cash flow positive and adequate ability to finance and pay its debts.
The only bad thing has been government intervention.
Undue the government silly games and these entitis have plenty of capital; plenty of cash and would be pillars / rocks of the financial community.
5% for banks was more than fair with more risk than fannie and freddie... so why would 10% and whatever not be nuts?
Banks there are a lot of them came out at 5% and it was fair considering the fact banks which invest in commerical loans are inherently more risky.
So why would 10% be fair, when they are only two of them and they are based upon home loans which are much safer.
So, why ?
Why would it be at a higher rate? WEll they should not have been they got it backward...
WOW...
Way to go to completely settle this discussion for ever.
Warrants were collateral.
Money has been completely repaid (at a ridiculous interest rate)
So, warrants are poof... gone.
Let this never be a discussion again.
They are toast.
You write..
Once the commons are diluted, it cannot be undone.
Not true.
It would be very expensive, but if the government wants to go that direction, they can print enough money to buy back the shares and cancel them.
But, yes, very expensive if they make a bad decision.
Chess. Sorry but you didnt understand the framework or position from which i wrote this premium to redeem high coupon dividend junior preferred.
The situation would be when things are normalized and commons are selling for $120 or so a share. So in order to redeem these shares they can buy them on the open market but, they'd be selling above 25 or so for a 25 par valued preferred. Thats the way bonds trade or investments that are interest rate sensitive considering the low interest rate environment.
So, in order to induce the preferred to sell; you'd have to pay a premium or convert them with a premium. What that means is a conversion of 4 or so preferreds for 1 common share.
Now, considering this. I think its not unreasonable.
However, in the current situation. I'd agree. But my scenario contemplates more normal capital structure and dealings.
Yes,
Eventtually the few billion of jps have to be dealt with. Probably they will be redeemed at 105% of par or something like that or be given an opportunity to convert at around 1 - 4 ratio (1 common for 4 $25 par preferred) which will be a 20% premium over fair value. Sot the prefs' will jump at it.
But, really the jps are truly just a nuisance to the capital structure overall.
What 17Billion face or abouts on $300 Billion FV
About less then 5%...
They need to settle. They should have settled. Problem here is, they've waited too long.
Once this thing is with Scotus, they are going to hear the case and render a decision. That decision is going to have ramifications.
Had they come clean prior to this it would have been on their terms.
Other problem is Scotus is going to take until next june to render an opinion. Just the way it likes to wait things out.
So if gov't is in a catch 22... what should it do.
They are probably hoping for no backwards relief, but that would be treasonous... like someone stealing my car and getting to keep it. Restitution involves returning stolen goods. Not just saying, sorry, never mind.
You can't just plunder and loot private companies. If so, then why not Microsoft or apple don't they constitute threats to national security?
What about those 11,000 documents of excec priv... when will those be released?
Personally, this is seemingly or could be really bad for the gov't sure scotus could give the current admin cover, but the best cover of all would have been releasing all the documents and settling right before the election, because of the prior administrations screw up and theft and put 100% of the blame on them? Could this be the October surprise? Would most voters really understand what occurred?
For me, i want fair value and i want it now. I am so ready. Heck, i'd cash in at 80% of fair value and it would still be over $100 per common.
What?
(10 to 1 RS) would range between $15 and $50
Heck... based on this premise you are predicting a range of $1.50 to $5.0 which is ...
First off you can nix the warrants. Too many problems associated with them. The gov't is going to have to concede them in some fashion. like, allow the companies to purchase them for near nothing. They can't exist and raise capital and the entities have to be out of conservatorship *no one will trust the gov't" and at that if the gov't don't come clean there will be limitations to their ability to raise money anyway... who wants to deal with a shark? Not my money. They are going to have own up to the treachery which is why they aren't fighting SCotus.
Next, completely ingnore the fact that treasury has recoverd maybe 100 Billion more then it should have ( this includes interest on the overpayments at their 10% interest rate)
So, if they need 150 Billion more in capital. They earn $10 a share (currently) at a PE of 12 would have $120 share price so they'd need to sell what 1.2Billion shares? So. now you have $250-$300Billion equity and a market cap of $360 Billion ...
So how do you possibly get a max of $5 when its easily $100+?
Problem here is all the govrnment risk associated with the stock is keep the price down, today. Remove the government and this thing is easily marketable. Government has royally screwed up. They know it but can't or won't admit it.
Interesting...
Only part i don't like is
As Plaintiffs’ brief notes (at 28-29), Treasury could have exercised the common-stock warrants it had pur-chased in 2008 in the initial transaction, obtaining 80% of the common equity of the Companies for a nom-inal price.
Actually Gov't can't own the shares.
And had they done this it would immediately tripped the takings clause as they'd not paid fair value to the shareholder they took 80% value from.
So...
oops...
never mind ...
Bad idea...
The problem with this.. is that the government did a quick wink wink and slipped in the old "liquidation" preference enhancement, so that all that "equity" now belongs back to the govenrment in liquidation prefference so in reality... they've gone no where.
The slipped everyone a mickey..
Its BS and wrong.
It too needs to get Quashed!
PO
The problem is the consumer finance perotection people don't have the ramifications as the fhfa and the taking of billions from shareholders.
at the center here is the damages done from the outset to people that had their hard earn money stolen / value diminished because of the unlawful actions of the government.
Fair value of the taking will be measured when the taking occurs. Remember, the matter isnt ripe yet, which the court has already said. You can't take something today but use yesterday's prices.. Using current fair value of entities that earn combined 20Billion a year will be a huge number.
could be a real impediment to raising any capital as the companies only continue to grow in value and the takings (potential) becomes bigger and bigger every
They really should settle.
if they were smart enough they'd realize this. Maybe they don't want to cause its going to look really bad for the government. Unless they spin the narrative like they've been doing for the past 12 years in the other direction when no one is looking.
Better do it quick.
The absurd comment by TH
He’s seen all the comments on the rule, and he’s not a dim person.
Because if this were true he'd find the "flush" button, wipe and pull up his drawers and get going.
Problem is he enjoys doing absolutely nothing.
its time to get off the pot.
Oh wait...
This is a joke...
Historic finding.. really..
what now ? they get it?
really.