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I don't see a vote for ltws in the Amended POR7. No one is watching this ship as it crashes into the rocks.
I am not on board with this deal. If anyone wants to file a motion to be excluded I'll back it up.
Judge Block has no use for this Court and we have such a solid case against our original antagonist the FDIC, that there is no reason to fold up shop here.
DID ROSEN NEGOTIATE WITH HIMSELF? Who represented us here?
This s**ks arse!
It looks like a sellout, up to this point. We were going for 2-3 and now .12-.19? I hope I'm wrong. But the Stipulation confirms that this is the end of the road for the ltws. Can't go to Block with nothing in our hands.
Login you may be right. It could be that they are giving "something" to preclude us from claiming the 337+ that's coming. Who is it coming to? is the real question. If we get pennies shoved our way,and by the way its worded, we have no say on whether we agree or not, we will be "out of there" when the payoff comes down the pike and when the big time award is distributed.
"No votes for you!!"
Therefore, there was no "trigger" and there won't be any in this Court.
The "trigger" concept is moot here. If she approves POR7, ltw contract is nullified. We get newco stk.
Have the POS7 points of confusion addressed by Steinberg just before the ruling, been resolved?
He tried to get a clarification on the distribution mechanism for the NEWCO.
I still don't get it.
HJMJW ordered that 337 should be set aside for ltws. In her final opinion she relegates ltws to equity, and POR7 gives ltws 30% of newcorp on pari-passu basis with wamuq, or better stated "BUPKES"
(sheep droppings).
A. What happened to the set aside?
B. Why should the estate set aside 337 when that sum should be forthcoming from FDIC?
B1)And what happens to the tax gross-up and adjustments?
C.Who is responsible to take this case to the end at US Court of Claims? Why was that not spelled out in the POR?
Basically , I'm asking what was the fuss all about when ltws are getting the shaft?
Now were talking business. Right On
The next step should be to deny the court's assertion that it has jurisdiction in the LTW, simply because it is not part of the wamu estate. It was maliciously inserted as an asset of wamu to counter the adverse ruling by Judge Block. We must ask for a CHANGE in VENUE to return the proceedings to the collection of damages from the FDIC.
We simply did not belong in BK court, and I addressed this issue to MW on this very point.
Our claim was spun-off in 2000. Wamu just can't garner our separated lawsuit as their own. If they want to abdicate the 15% mgmt allowance , let them.
I think we were mistaken to argue, point-by-point, the contents of the LTW contract and split hairs in MW court. She need not have been the adjudicator of that issue. The overriding issue was that we were hi-jacked by JPM and their legal team into an asset of the Debtors.
wall street61. You have found the golden nugget with regards to MW rights to dispose of our shares.Thanks.
NOT A LAWYER just my opinions.
The real issue is whether the FDIC had a right to assign the LTWs. It did not own them and neither did WAMU. By turning them over to JPM in a flippant "by the way" manner, and, having so proclaimed in the Global Settlement Agreement (GSA), it became "written in stone". I do not agree.
Linda1, I hope that you were aware that the FDIC NEVER agreed to pay the Anchor award to directly to the stockholders. That is why the contrived LTW monstrosity was created in the first place.
Also, it is well known that JPM had it's eyes on WAMU for over a year before it pounced on it. The FDIC was completely complicit in this hold-up as it never had qualms about stuffing JPM's pockets with cash to the detriment of the LTWs.
The fact that the LTW were a stand a lone claim against the FDIC stuck in it's crow, and, in light of Judge Block's decision, was one of the first order of business to transfer to JPM upon the WAMU takeover.
I contend that that was CONVERSION. There are far more experienced and knowledgeable advocates and Counselors on this Board who can take this to the next level.
PS your input is much appreciated.
I care what your thoughts are.
Linda1 and wizeguy, you make a very good point that we should go to JPM to get our fair share of the 85%. A couple of weeks ago i had the same thought. The reply on this Board was that we cannot turn the clock back to when the GSA approved the sale of Anchor to JPM as part of the FDIC deal.
That may be true, but is it legal?
WE WAS ROBBED!! AND the damn Dame was bought and paid to do so!
That was a sneaky, dirty, vile contortion of the law and there must be remedies available to us.
LTWs were not, ever, part of WMI or WAMU. We should not have been gifted without compensation. If there is a rule if law in this land? Then let's see it!
I am seriously impacted by this decision (I only read rumors). I not only lost money, which was expected when you play with fire; but far,far, more troubling to me was the loss of the judiciary to the powers at JPM, FDIC, etc.These power elites are holding this nation hostage to their greed and there is no way to break this choke-hold.
This nation is lost and there is little hope for repair. If any of you have studied the progression of the Great Depression, you will see a pattern developing which bodes ill for this nation.
Regardless of the appeals process that may or may not occur, this is a sad day for justice and a sadder day for America!! END!!!!
Sorry I missed that. I got the 347 from THJMW ruling before Rosen's correction. I was using the 337 number until then and realized that The Judge used the 347 repeatedly.
Does anyone know what will happen to the $62mil tax gross up that Judge Block is considering? as well as any interest and rate of interest on that money?
Exactly what I proposed last week. I was informed that this is a no-go option. Also, the Judge reserved $347 Million. All of us have been quoting $337Mil.
Risking the threat of putting the cart before the horse. I think that, should we be re-classed 12, we should start planning a grand party for the Board participants. We would invite Mr. Steinberg as our Guest of Honor and meet at convenient location.
If we are grouped as class 21, we should make funeral arrangements for some of us and join the procession.
My apology I was indeed waiting for that very 5 page reply.
The latest objection by Steinberg to the POR#7 is NOT THE ROSETTA STONE that we are waiting for. It is rather, an enumeration of the very, very sloppy job Debtors and Creditors did in submitting that dubious document. Art found so many holes in the Plan that GW & Associates should be ashamed of themselves. A real piece of amateurish garbage.
Having listed the omissions as well as contradictory and ambiguous elements of the POR, he reserve the right to make additional filing with the Court once these ambiguities have been addressed.
So, we are still waiting for the 5 page response that THMJW requested.
O.k. guys. I love the discussion here. I know we have opinions. That's what this Board is all about. If anyone thought that our pearls of wisdom have an influence on the final decision by the court he/she is gravely mistaken.
There has to be a forum for all of us to vent our admiration, frustration, revulsion and even erudition.
I cannot thank you enough for all the amazingly open and informative discussions that I read on this Board.
Other than the gratuitous personal insults that are aired here from time to time, I look forward to every opinion and I appreciate the insight that each and every one lends to the picture.
I hope that this matter will come to a speedy and gratifying conclusion and wish everyone on this Board a Healthy and Prosperous NEW YEAR.
AMEN!!!!!
Re NOL your post 5106. You got something here. The WAMUQ must love this.
Still speculating on mediation. I think the best solution is to give ltw the Anchor litigation. Create a note or instrument (not a warrant) that conveys 85% of Anchor to ltw holders. In this way WMI and Co could part ways and do whatever with the eviscerated estate that JPM stole from WAMU.
Wallstreet61 good analysis of the POR position. This is definitely NOT a 510(b) classification and we are NOT getting the right allocation of stock even if we are classified as equity (which Steinberg disagrees).
So, going into Mediation, Rosen hasn't got a leg to stand on. Remember that Art wanted a cash payout rather than watered down stock (being shoved our way).
IMHO I agree with fourcentsona$1 that we would have to be reclassified as class 12 and get a cash settlement. But here again, Art claims that our true worth is $600m (~$5.00 per ltw), the leverage is that HMRW is clearly on Art's side (are there any doubters still?). I'd say that walking away with $337 net is not out of the question and very plausible.
And the screw takes yet another turn. On Monday, it looked bleak at $.31 recovery, I hope that by today we are at least back to the $.75 anticipatory level. It could very well break a dollar by early next week.
thanks gophilipgo post # 5130 for laying out the rules of NOLs
these NOL are very valuable. The cash value to an acquired profitable co is approx 1/3 of the face value. so $17-19 B are worth ~$6B in cash. I am not sure how much was going to be transferred to the Newcorp.I believe someone posted the real numbers earlier today(my apologies for not attributing). This will give the newcorp sex appeal to grow by buying banks, insurance cos, or mtge brokers.
these NOL are very valuable. The cash value to an acquired profitable co is approx 1/3 of the face value. so $17-19 B are worth ~$6B in cash. I am not sure how much was going to be transferred to the Newcorp.I believe someone posted the real numbers earlier today(my apologies for not attributing). This will give the newcorp sex appeal to grow by buying banks, insurance cos, or mtge brokers.
I'm not sure but I think the #7 has that jackpot split between
JPMC and WMC not WMI. I may be wrong. I well remember this NOL $# as being the primary asset that the three entities were fighting about and that JPM coveted as much as it did the ltws.
Jared,
The POR#7 doesn't get it. We are supposed to have been assigned "value" (at min. $337m) that was transferred from the litigation. So, give us something equaling that VALUE and let's go from there. One idea is to issue us senior marketable NOTES granting us the value due at conclusion of the case. These notes will trade speculation based on Claim Court news.
This could easily be achieved without jeopardizing any of the $7b in payout or even the WAMUQs.
This case is so rife with self-dealing, self-aggrandizing, scorched earth plundering, I wonder where is the Justice Department in all of this chicanery? It must be investigated on criminal basis.
Where would ltw be if WAMUQ gets the whole 30%? First the WAMUQ get the 30% then ,if ltws get classed as equity the WAMUQs will split 50/50 with ltws? I don't get it.
This whole thing is ludicrous. We just had two trials where debtors were trounced by ltws, and now we get the bum's rush out of the deal? Is this a sinister plot or just plain gaul?
Your reckoning is correct. The $Billion comes from imputing the current value of WAMUQ value(.09)with 1.7 Billion shares (=153M) and than quantifying the Ltws as equal owners of the 30% allocated for this class ($153m/113m.). Together they would be worth ~$300M and therefor the whole company would have t/b valued @$1B.
In any case the book value as you calculate is not the same as the market valuation is today. All of my valuations are speculator induced. And, at any rate, this saga is not over yet.
Thanks Linda1. The alarm is lessened with these revelations.
I think that WAMU $153=15% of entity therefore implied entity value s/b $1 Billion. With this number ltws are worth only $1.35 at todays' conversion price?
In order for ltws to get 2.40 WAMU stock has to rise to ~$.18.
Check my math please.
logerusername, I'm digesting post #5057 where you quote p.153.
Amended #7 defines 0ur recovery as the lesser of
1) amount set aside by the court.... $337M
2) Amount to be awarded by US Claims Court...much higher
3) Amount our team negotiates with Debtors to discharge all claims.
multiplied by the shares of Newco to equal this $ amount.
Pretty much determines out max. at $337mil., if i read correctly. Because why would we settle for less? And if offered more, by stipulation, we still fall back to $337M.
Looks like they are trying to fence us into a corner here.
Nevertheless, 337 is better than 15 % of 70Mil. This leaves us with the original estimate of $2.20-$2.50 per LTW, Right?
I think the next few days we'll see tremendous volatility here as it appears that there is great pressure to seal this before the end of the year. I venture to guess that Steinberg (LTW) and Sussman (WAMU) will want to put their 2 cents in pretty quickly.
Bottom line, if you hung around this long than you're in for the fireworks. This is no time for sissies.