Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
This would be great. One other thing to improve the balance sheet will hopefully be a nice little kick in the Nads to treasury, by the courts. Since treasury has been collecting all the unethical looted gains.
A judicial opinion is a form of legal opinion written by a judge or a judicial panel in the course of resolving a legal dispute, providing the decision reached to resolve the dispute, and usually indicating the facts which led to the dispute and an analysis of the law used to arrive at the decision.
A court order is an official proclamation by a judge that defines the legal relationships between the parties to a hearing, a trial, an appeal or other court proceedings. Such ruling requires or authorizes the carrying out of certain steps by one or more parties to a case.
Sorry if I misled you on my reply to trunmonk, chessmaster. I was being very sarcastic when I was saying pref's are win, win, win no matter the outcome because, yes there are those on here who keep spinning things based on pure fantasy and whatever else they deem from their hedge fund leaders.
I agree 100% with your post! It is how I see things also.
Yeah, if receivership they win it all, if recap/release they win it all. Commons and court, government have no leverage over pref's I guess...lol
This would be best case for all holders! Expose the embezzling of the GSE's and the phony conservatorship from the beginning.
Obama endorsed Bidden...watch and see if Trump does let those docs see the light of day! One thing I know is Trump does not like Obama, period.
Fact eh? So I guess the courts could never in a million years call the whole thing bogus and unconstitutional? You state the "fact" below....care to provide FACTS that show this is a given/happening? From what the rest of us know, courts are still in session.
The fact that doesn't seem to be sinking in around here is that Treasury is never going to both send FnF $125B and cancel the seniors. It will only be one or the other.
Agree. Hank was, or should have been a mafia boss.
Exactly. The seniors are being accounted for as debt on the books, but when they disapear....waalaa.
The difference is what happens if the payment of a dividend is missed. If it is a non-cumulative preference share, the dividend is lost forever and never paid. If it is a cumulative preference share, the dividend may be paid later, if and when the funds to do so are available
Anyone believing that the fake numbers for the GSE's and the governments theft of shares, money, etc having no affect or bearing on future capitalization, has their respective head buried deep in the sand.
All you need to look at is the current airlines bailout terms to understand just how wrong the GSE's TAKE OVER was.
Pref's are all noncummulative - meaning interest payments by the GSE's can be turned on and off as needed to support business objectives. Do not think be surprised if pref's are not offered anything other than holding their positions.
If that were expecting to be announced, many would sell, the price would drop, and the companies can buy back cheaply, then issue lower interest pref's to raise capital.
Definition for ya's
Non-cumulative preference shares are those shares that provide the shareholder fixed dividend amount each year from the company's net profit but in case the company fails to pay the dividend on such preference share to the shareholder in any year then such dividend cannot be claimed by the shareholder in future.
It's about time GSE's are no longer a "patsy" for the underhanded business practice repercussions of banks and private mortgage places. They all need to be held personally responsible for their "anything for a profit" actions. They thought helping the government keep the GSE's in conservatorship forever would give them a life line to dump all their bad mortgages and refi's.
Now...finally someone in government is defending us. The past administration was more than happy to keep us in never ending servitude to their lobbiests, and to use as a slush fund.
This is the real tragedy of the GSE's and the biggest black stain on an American administration in the history of our Capitalist economy.
Smokes! Thanks for all that cheddar ano. Gonna take a while to absorb it lol....maybe not quite all. lol
Special delivery! Skepric7 and trunkmonk. Please verify for me trunkmonk
Your original post:
AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, RECEIVERSHIP IS FAR MORE LIKELY THAN RELEASE. AND THIS REMAINS TRUE WITH OR WITHOUT COVID-19
Don't remember it right?
I posted Trump's order on GSE RELEASE, which said nothing about receivership to prove a point/fact.
You next posted some blah, blah, blah quote from the document and this:
So this whole thing is based on things we all know to be lies. But hey, if you're OK with that, good for you. Trump bought the bullshit, hook-line-and sinker.
(Changed the subject into a rant about Trump)
Is this clear enough for you? Your typed posts do not lie, yet you do to CYA. So go somewhere else and cry.
Yeeeesssssss sireeeeeee. Nice and to the point.
But but but but bu But wait! Can't we give pref's 30 commons per pref before all that happens? Lol
See septic7 even Randy says you said receivership! Why are you hiding from your original comment I shot you down about, with that article? Blabbing with no basis will get you challenged. Thanks Randy!
You originally said receivership coming. Then I posted Trump's doc, then you off on a tangent about Trump. Do you have ADD?
Holy cow! Last 11 years we could barely get any good press once every few quarters. Now, GSE's in the news daily, saving the day. Someone turned off that news black out on the twins pretty dam quick, Eh? Hmmmm....
From Bloomberg interview of MC...
Calabria insists that he’s tuning this out. “The law says I have to get Fannie and Freddie out of conservatorship; it does not say ‘unless some hedge funds benefit,’ ” he says. “There’s nothing that says, ‘You shall exit unless Wall Street doesn’t want you to.’ That is not a relevant consideration.”
From Bloomberg interview of MC...
Calabria insists that he’s tuning this out. “The law says I have to get Fannie and Freddie out of conservatorship; it does not say ‘unless some hedge funds benefit,’ ” he says. “There’s nothing that says, ‘You shall exit unless Wall Street doesn’t want you to.’ That is not a relevant consideration.”
Facts! Hard for some to see the simple truths.
Trunkmonk gets the Mark Twain goat award for that bean stew small closet joke. Still laughing my azz off
Changing your statement? You originally were saying receivership for sure. Why talk shit and then more shit after I gave you that document link? That document is from Trump and does not say bankrupt or put in receivership. Yet here you are crying wolf. If you have some political ax to grind, please go on yahoo message boards, because most here are capitalists and beleive in capitalism, so yep, probably majority here is republican or independent, so you won't find any shoulders to cry on.
Skeptic7 did you find that biggly word receivership in this link?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-federal-housing-finance-reform/
Something pref's should keep in mind...
If the big hedge fund pref holders are going to change up their holdings, you can bet your life they are not going to telegraph that move to smaller pref holders or even common holders. They do all things blind to most until it's too late. So good luck as you try to follow them.
Warren Buffett is a master at advertising what he is going to buy AFTER he buys it, and then sells off gradually so as not to attract attention. Unless he intends to buy the place, then his lips are tighter than preshrunk spandex.
Lol....hahaha thanks mongo
Nice!
Navy, I think SM and MC are making a point with the bail out they are doing versus what previous administration did on purpose. Something definitely brewing with courts, me thinks
Here ya go. If your remedial reading skills are too challenged by this, ask most anyone on the board, they'll be glad to help with the 3 letter and larger words.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-federal-housing-finance-reform/
Only if you dream it!
Government would need to be complete idiots to do bankruptcy. Whole housing market, stock market and economy would tank in 3 days.
You guys are reading challenged....its been said numerous times, no receivership, no bankruptcy. And if you are thinking yeah there will be, then you need to tell Trump who ordered GSE's released, recapped,mandatory let the courts know so they'll stop working 36 cases!
You should be ashamed making that statement. Lol
Yeah, saw that before. It's the slow moving and changing of positions....court cases are causing rethink and reevaluation.
Absolutely. Agree.
This could be why some of the better known pref advocates are changing their tunes and possibly buying commons now.
I think government will push for as mediocre and as little as possible to both pref's and commons. The equalizer will be the courts. Trump admin can say in the press and to congress, we fought the good fight but when it came down to it, the previous administration screwed the pooch.
This will provide the biggest benefit to the GSE'S and not directly to a share class, so if companies are made more whole due to court cases, then I do see more upside personally in commons. This is my personal view taking into consideration why people buy the different class shares and the typical rules and corporate bylaws that apply to them.
I don't think government wants to change or handicap any share class unless absolutely necessary or if that share class poses a a problem for the recap plan.
So folks who are saying par and par plus or multi common share conversion on pref shares are not seeing the big picture, in my opinion. The potential for upside in the commons can not be determined, but I believe it will be nice after release and holding a few years. I can not say the same on pref's and I beleive this is why they keep saying conversion. Which I think a new BOD would be responsible for, especially if the current SCOTUS case about the constitutionality of HERA is found in our favor. Too many variables open right now for any type of predictions, honestly.
As cases are adjudged we will know better the outcome I think.
Agree. This is one thing I've been trying to point out.
It would seem those posting favoring their pref's position think they will be first in line for a windfall, no matter which way the wind blows. If receivership, they're golden, if recap and release, they're golden.
Their belief that commons will be screwed at every turn is their only argument accompanied by blind assumptions and and pie in the sky dreams due to the hedge funds positioning.
I am more than open to reasonable level headed debate on what is good FOR BOTH, since yeah, we're in the same boat! But when you push your one sided agenda, I lose any and all interest.
I've read much of Bradfords stuff in the past on seeking alpha...he used to always come off as fair and balanced to me, even though most said he was a solid pref's advocate. But no one here or anywhere else has any idea how this will all be settled. Too many variables especially with the courts and now this international economic emergency. So good discussion is a must right now, not your own one sided biased opinion.
FYI: I am for an equitable/fair settlement for all. Put us back to where we were before the government conducted it's coup of the GSE's and let the cards fall where they may. If courts decide we were wronged, then by all means, gov pay damages to who or what was wronged. Make it right - Damit!
Topic for discussion....maybe.
Pref's are a share class like commons are a share class, and the specific verbiage that has been used in the past by MC and/or SM is "shareholders will not get a windfall". I do not beleive they ever specified common or pref. So interpretation of that statement has always been looked at as a common shareholder negative, but very well could be ALL shareholders.
Whoa! Careful there...unless you're right 100% of the time there "GOD"
Ha ha ha ha...lmao please give me some of what you are smoking!
Governments going to put GSE's into conservatorship with private lenders failing and banks tightening up on an already low mortgage business. You guys talking receivership Crack me up.
I guess it's a last hope to finally get par? Am I right?
Took the words out of my head! Just what I was thinking.
4 pref's to 1 common.
They would be giving up 5-6% interset but would make way more on appreciation and possibly dividends later. They would also get a vote/say so going forward.
Why do pref holders beleive they have the government, courts and a BOD they have not dealt with yet, over a barrel? Curious...would really like to know.
At this point government can tell pref's to pound sand until recap is done and new BOD installed,,let the new BOD handle the further capital restructuring after minimum capital requirement is met and release via consent decree. New BOD can tell pref's no interest payments due to weak or more needed capitalization funds. Pref's could very well end up never seeing a common position and a long wait on interest payments. Judges have not said anything in regards to direct claims - pref's or common and are leaning at not entertaining them at this point.
I assume also if any direct claim gets filed for suit that it will be many years of more hell.
So if the derivative claims which are affecting viability of the corporations only are judged in the GSE's favor, then common is a wee bit more bright side, don't ya think?
+1 bravo
The fruit salad bullshit continues. Lol
Always pref's holders comparing a peanut to a pinecone and seeing them as the same beyond a doubt.