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Sorry, but I don't really get that.
How can people trade with 'real shares'. There are no shares because nobody knows how to convert them to PDRs?
that's my thinking too. So everyone will have to agrees that there are no shares to be traded yet, I guess. So if they make it seem as if shares are being traded next week, that would be not a very good sign, right?
Question: if I get it correctly no one knows what you exactly need to do to convert your shares in PDFs. (yet...). So nobody has PDFs already. I guess they will make it clear to us next week. But if trading starts next week, which shares are going to be traded if no one converted yet?
ok, so you buy at 0.01. I'll buy here at 0.0015, exchange for PFDs and still get the 0.04.
Prices here and over there will converge...either we go up or they go down.
Question is: do you believe that? or does anybody?
Who is already bidding on a market that does not exist yet?
Who in their right mind would pay 0.01 for something you can get at 0.0015 somewhere else?
The usual pump language...
filing on pinksheets.com would be a bit of a start...
They make it pretty hard to believe them.
As far as I know: there are no financials. There aren't if you don't read IHUB. They are not on pinksheets.com and they are not PRd. Should we move because the CEO posts something on his blog???
they can not choose to file whenever they wanted...well they can of course, but the rules are that the financials should be available at last on the 15th. If they don't commit them, they will get some kind of 'not up to date info' status on the pink sheets. Putting the financials out in a timely fashion is only a matter of respect towards the shareholders.
There was a report on Joost today on the belgian national TV. The fragment showed some TFN on Joost.
If you speak dutch: (or if you couldn't care less about what they say, but just want to see TFN on Joost)
http://www2.vrtnieuws.net/cm/vrtnieuws.net/cultuurmedia/media/070511Joost#
I was here some time ago. Got in at 0.0028, saw it go to 0.0002 and then there was the run...up to 0.0018. And then came the day they increased the A/S to 11B. But that was not for dilution...oh no...not at all, it was for aquisitions and maybe they would even consider a foward split (someone from ir actually said that!).
I got out the day of the increase and it seems I was right.
This is just another pinkie: lying to the shareholders and diluting...
Sandy dumping on us again...sad sad sad. I hoped he was done...
The fact that Sandy updated pinksheets.com with a 15B O/S was just because he knew that we would see it anyway in the financials. Now we're prepared. However, whatever happened after 31/03 we will only know by 15/08.
Probably we are closer to 20B today. Lets hope this stops soon.
Great post... Sandy has been scamming us.
The only hope left is that the buyout PR was not just to pump, but they are actually talking to people.
The point is that there was no PR for the 5 billion that have been added recently I guess...
So the buy-back PR is just a pump PR to dump at a reasonable price.
WOW: 500K revenue in 2006.
Combined with: " The growth rate of new subscribers month over month is an astounding 5%, which in the digital television landscape is exceptional. " (from letter)
+ Sandy saying we are profitable now... (which means revenue should be up to a couple of million)
would be a good start...
Lets get the following PRs out:
- exact number of converted shares
- exact current O/S
- 0.005 cash divident for the sale of TFN
Lets go BKMP!!
I think we all would like to know what exactly was happening last week.
On the 3.5 billion day, we saw mercyless dumping. Big packets, all day long. Surely there were some panik sells in there (from real investors), but for the majority of the shares, it did not make sense for the average investor to dump in the fashion as we witnessed.
Also the day before, there was huge buying pressure on the news, but something was holding us back.
It should be clear that "shorts covering" and "buyback" are no options here. Somehow these things always pop up when a stock goes down, but both things actually means: 'buying shares' and they would make the price go up instead of down.
So what was happening? It could be the CD that was dumped on us as suggested here, but I don't think there is a reason why this would be the case. CD should have been put on hold until 2009.
I think Sandy was dumping on us. Sandy needed money. He declared the conversion possibility and he didn't do that just for fun. He wanted people to convert. He did everything he could to make the price go up (all those PR's), but he probably underestimated the power of his own PFDs. So this week, the convertion period is almost over, Sandy checks his balance and sees that he didn't get wat he wanted; so he dumps a shitload of shares on the market.
Why sandy needs the money is an open question. Certainly with the news of this week it doesn't seem to make sense (or was the news just a pump PR so that he could find buyers for the billions?, it is not very concrete in any way, so maybe...).
But he did need money. Also the 504 proves that. The 15 billion current O/S proves that. (makes sense: heavy selling already started a week ago).
And don't believe Sandy if he says that
- he doesn't know how much was converted until now
- he says 15 billion was just an estimate.
Anyway, if we get a PR next week saying BKMP received 100 million in cash for the sale of TFN, it all doesn't matter anymore...
fine for me, that would be 0.005!!
So you estimate BKMP to be worth around 6 million?
So TFN would be around 30?
Isn't that cheap? were are the "high eight numbers"?
Should be pretty clear: Sandy wanted a certain amount of money. He did everything he could pumping it so you would convert. He wanted to give away shares as much as you wanted at 0.00015. But nobody wanted them, so he turned to plan B: dumping on the market.
The good news is that it takes less shares at 0.0002/0.0003 than it does at 0.00015.
Let's hope that he's done. Or maybe he should give me some of those 0.0001's first and then we can run.
Nope, no preference for the company. The company is just another bidder, waiting to get filed...
But at least we agree that Sandy has to wait for sellers. Other people really think that Sandy can just say: Now!, And they will take away somebody's shares...
You are right. It seems that a lot of people here don't know how a buyback works and they think that Sandy can just 'buy' whenever he wants at 0.0002. Give me 50 million at 0.0002 NOW! .... but it doesn't work like that as you stated.
between 150-225 million were sold today at 0.0002, that is correct...but there is a very low change that Sandy was at the bid for all those sales. Hopefully he got some.
how about this one:
There seems to exist a law in panama that makes it illegal for american companies to publish audited financials, but it is legal to publish them unaudited...
hmmm... mystery...
nope: all trades at 0.0003 are people selling at 3. If sandy happens to be on the bid and if his order happens to get filed: it's buyback....but there is really no way to tell.
I think that you see things a bit negative. I don't believe the PPS is manipulated, it just went down for obvious reasons (divi conversion + SEC form). Sandy on the other hand is doing everything he can (and hrhr) to get the PPS as high as possible. (all the PR's, hrhr pumping). I really think they underestimated the effect of the divi/form. They thought joost and the buyback would get this to 0.001 and make people forget about the divi conversion.
I think that Sandy is not trying to make new friends, but he's trying to get some money in. (btw: on the CD he only gets 0.0001 per share, now he gets 0.00015). Sandy needs money and he offers a deal to shareholders....that's all.
btw: if people who know don't want us to convert, but will convert themselves, they will cause the same bad effect. Certainly if you are talking about people with billions of shares, it doesn't really matter that much whether the rest converts or not...they will cause the major harm. Which they won't do because it is bad for themselves...
or maybe I'm just very naive...
don't agree: if everyone converts, a 130 billion shares will be added. The only thing guaranteed is a reverse split in that case.
Actually I don't care. I think hrhr is just like any other investor and will not put all of his money on restricted shares. He thinks like the rest if us. For example: I own 10 million shares. I only consider converting when the PPS is at least 0.001 on good news (long term good news). When I do convert it will be for about 1 (maybe 2) million. I think that is what most other people will do: convert some shares, because it is a good deal, but it is a risk because of the restriction. In hrhr's case, "some shares" means maybe 100 million or so, but I can not believe he will go for billions. (why would he? he can buy non-restricted now for 0.0003, which is more expensive, but there is a bonus because less shares will be converted and there is no restriction)
I thinks you are overestimating hrhr a bit. I never believe he has 10B shares, bvut lets say he does, that would allow him to buy a 100B common by conversion. That would be 15 million dollars buy money...
The man has cash, but not that many...
I think that's a little bit too much conspiracy-theory...
First, I don't think HRHR own 8-10 billion shares. I would be surprised if he owns 1 billion, I would be very surprised if he owns 2. If you look at what we really saw him buying, it should be around 1 billion if he hasn't sold a share. The rest is based on him saying he already owned 7 billion, but there is no proof of that and given that he likes to exaggerate a bit...
Secondly, HRHR is pumping this. He wanted the PPS to be 0.001 at least by now. He even honestly expected this I think. I think he underestimated the power of the preferreds and probably didn't know about the sec filing.
He is trying to convince people to buy this to make the PPS go up. I have not seen him wanting to keep it down.
He just wants to make some money like the rest of us...
Thanks...I kind of thought something like that. Then I was wondering what an "accredited investors". I found a definition here:
http://www.sec.gov/answers/accred.htm
The form does not seem to mention the amount of shares or the price per share.
But it does mention that the shares are "not intended to sell to non-accredited". So they cannot be dumped on the market.
But it is still diluting us of course...but except from "already sold 100.000" (to 1 investor), we don't know how popular these things will be of course.
Why can't these investors buy their shares on the market? Is this going to fund the buy-back in the initial phase? ...
has the board already figured out the exact meaning of the filing? Can anyone summerize it for me or point me to a meaningfull post. Thanks
Yes, it is exactly the same thing... a crazy night, posts on some blog, excuses...
So if you guys like to see where you're going: have a good look at the SLJB chart around november 15...
nope...just people selling...
thanks.... seems obvious to me.
People seem to have this wrong a lot.
Whenever the price goes down they wonder: "what is this?". Is is the buyback?, is it shorts covering?...
No: it is just people selling.
Yes, but the O/S is distibuted among the shareholders. It is as simple as that. Shareholders need to sell shares back to Sandy.
So where do those shares come from if nobody is selling them? They have to come from somewhere. They will not be taken away from someone without permission. They will not be 'created'.
After a buyback there are less shares in the market, so it means the shares come from people selling them.
I don't want to argue that he has to buy at the bid...so he should buy at the bid.
But: he can only put an order at the bid, it takes a seller to fill the order.
So: sandy can only buy at the bid if someone sells the shares to him: MARKET RULES.
That's all I'm saying.
And this: Sandy's order does not get any preference over the other orders. Again: MARKET RULES.
So a buyback is waiting until you get filed at the bid. (if the bid-rule is true)
So you say Sandy can buy at the bid whenever he wants, even if nobody sells?
I don't understand that indeed!
Sandy can not buy at the bid. He can put an order in at the bid. And it still requires someone to sell at the bid. They're not going to take away someones shares because sandy wants them.
So of course he can buy at the bid, just as you or I can, but he has to be patient, just like you or I.
So what is your statement? If Sandy says: I want 50 million now at the bid, he gets filed immediately? That's just not possible...where would those shares come from?