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plain and simple they are theives.
so easy to steal when its no personal consequence... why...
Why they perpetuate the steal...
The are leaving the scene and still continue the theft...
W T F ?
For?
What's in it for them to contineu this theft?
What's in it for these perps?
Wrong.
Fnma is currently 1.1B and Fmc around 876M...
The number used is 5x these numbers because yachoo sees these as if issued and therefore in the total.
Nothing gets raised from outside capital without the warrants being canceled.
She is a blow hard....
Lotta hot air.
Plus this letter agreement really accomplishes nothing.
Except allowing them to garner more equity but simultaneiously increse the liquidation preference. Which is akin to more sweep.
These people are criminals in suits...
manuch and calbra did nothing to solve this easily solvable problem
Why not.
Are they that incompetent?
So, basically munuchin and calabria pooped in the bed.
This is horrible..
Why can't these two thieves figure it out. for heavens sake, come on man, stop the steal!
Because of their public figure status, etc. while we are all precluded from wishing ill will, we certainly can hope they enjoy 12 years (or at least 4) of purgatory similarly to that Fannie and Freddie shareholders have, with endless..... nothingness...
its very perplexing that these allegedly smart people couldn't get out of a wet paper bag.
Amazing...
If after near 4 years the best thing they got is some agreement to allow more stealing and masqureading as some savant then Munichin, calbria and the rest can all be officially denoted as worthless shets...
Its disgusting that the government morons can't do what's right.
So they allow tesla shareholders to get "windfalls" but not fannie? Why? What about Moderna and Pfizer and zoom, profiteering off of covid 19. How embarrassing.
These morons should be shunned.
Come on man... do the right thing...
If Treasury and Fhfa (fannie) / and (Freddie) enter an amendment / agreement whereby they by contract are set on a course to freedom, that path could only be undone if contractually it were allowed or amendment.
That contract would have to unwind a bunch of corruption, but it could happen.
With that not even a new fhfa director or treasury sect could unilaterally void it.
Would have to put some power back into the hands of the company's that by contract.
Do that and free at last.
If the court rules that a "conservator" can take all of the net worth of a conservatee then I want to be in that business.
It will completely change the definition and duties across the country.
Might as well change the definition of fiduciary to include the concept that allows the fiduciary to screw the client.
Puts the CFPB on its rear end.
No
I can't fathom that.
Conservators, can't take with disregard from those being "protected" its fundamentally wrong. But a great business to be in; if allowed.
Cop... why did you steal from that bank.
Robber ... oh no, i didn't steal... i was appointed conservator.
cop... what? you took all the money...
Robber ... yes, as conservator, i can do that ... the US supreme court in "collins" allows me to...
Cop... oh kay... on your way..
Wanted to point out the error in your writing.
The situation is the the government did not pay anything for the "warrants" to acquire 80% of these entities. Since they've not acquired the interests, the courts have stated the claim, the taking claim is not ripe,regardless of the case and the fact that having these "warrants" is a total wet blanket on the price of the shares and completely destroys the entities ability to raise capital or do anything.
The fact is, the 80% interest and control excercised by fhfa also a part of govnerment from an accounting perspective they should be on the balance sheet of the federal government.
So, the 1/1000th of a penny price is the "excercise" price. Which will be the price to be paid. Fair value, as determined not by share price but value... (think 20Billion of Earnings / 1.1B shares x pe of 10 or so = $$$!!!) So, when the govnerment does this, they are going to owe the shareowners quite a lot.
Maxine ... signed the letter.. but is she intelligent enough to have written it.
Also, it is merely a suggestion.
Manuch could be out if the admin changes as many believe, so he could easily thumb his nose at her / them.
Peace
5 $25 pref = 1 common.
The taking here involves the taking of the ownership interest known as dilution for less than fair value.
Meaning that 80% of the company's value will potentially be vaporized for near nothing.
So, in that an instant we own 100% of an entity worth 150Billion and the next moment we own the same shares that now are only worth 20% of a 150 Billion entity. So that would be a taking of 120Billion.
In that the proceeds of near nothing go to the company is not an excuse.
Now, if the government puts in 550 Billion of investment in actual equity and the company is now worth 700 Billion of equity for which our 20% is worth about the same. Then about okay...
Otherwise ... its a taking.
it just seems to me that the wsj article published this morning is just to convenient timing wise and goes against all the recent trend of moving towards a release of some such before 1/20 or so.
Just seems to surreal.
I'd think... it migh not be true
You know... any thought to this actually being a hit piece to counter the news last night about telling workers to be around?
You know maybe, it was as written... Munchi "may" not support change.. but that's like.. there is a chance.
My thought here is that the hit piece was used to check the enthusiasm so that we'd not jack up the price so they can do something else?
So, if that's the case then the game is still on..
Can Scotus rule only on what what brought and argued to them... or can they expose the whole thing and fix everything. Or.. you know the cops are there for a drug charge... but find stolen goods... do they ignore the stolen goods? Are they limited to what was put in front of them or can they, fix it.
I mean...
Can they really fix it or is this piecemeal... like..
The problem is the agency is unconstitutionally structured. It actually goes all the way to inception.
So, how do they fix that?
1. ignore it
2. make something up
3. do something like say... oh well too big to fix and hurts our employer too much. The damage is already done... to bad so sad.
4. say, yep shouldn't have done it. But its too late should have complained about it in 2007 and well nothing to see move on.
5. Unwind everything. Take back all that has been done; right down to the bone. Leave no stone unturned.
6. Pick on the big things that hurt shareholders... unwind that stuff and put the money back... give interest to the entities..
7. Do a few things but mostly nothing.
So, how do you go back to the roots and unwind it?
Problem...
No opinions will be rendered before February.... So, that could be a thing.
Still hoping that we get fair value.
The good thing...
Also is...
That when the takings claim is filed.
Two justices have already spoken that "why didn't you file a takings claim".
So, only need 3 others and the 2 that said takings were lib judges... so that seems very favorable to that...
Cha Ching!
if the fact the for cause removal problem makes the whole of fhfa invalid then...
its invalid from the start.
meaning...
everything is bad.
not just what is picked and chosen.
isn't it an all or nothing?
Shouldn't be able to say... ice cream is good ... cupcakes are not..
its either all or none.
its constitutional and part of the admin proced act. .. right?
problem...
They never discussed nor is it apparently relevant for some reason the premise around whcinh fandf were seized.
i wish thompson would have discussed that and the 11,000 documents.
the drop the pin comment..
would have been a good thing ...
But
fingersx'd
955... totally concur...
but the judge said...
it still has value.. so we didn't take it all.
...
Nutty argument that ... we left you with something... be happy...
...
but, i agree... taking 80% of my asset is still a taking and whether its actual or constructive...
Constructive would be you own a piece of property and the government prevents you from using it by condeming the street in front. and it prevents you from getting to it... thus its a constructive taking.
these.. 80% warrants and all my net worth take my $$$ for which they've paid me 0
They need to cut me a check for what they've taken from me!
And do it now!
I would completely agree....
However...
Apparently the arguement by the gov and courts is
A taking isn't a taking unless all of it is taken.
For example.. it you owned 100 acres and the goernment only takes 80 acres... well that;s okay.
So, taking 80% of fandf is okay cause you are still left with 100% of your 20%.
See ... it wouldn't have taken that.
Sorry.
Its pretty silly..
Yes, taking 80% of my company and "value" of my shares that are worth over $130 a share... is a taking.
peace.
As with all the other hearings and such my expectation for tomorrow on tomorrow is muted.
I expect nothing to come of it.. tomorrow.
Actually could see the stock sell off ... 25-35c as people "sell the news"... Some people don't understand how this process works.
But the seed is sowed...
This just can't stand.
They'll have to figure out a solution that doesn't "disrupt the housing market...lol!" and is easy on the government (remember that's who pays them).
Eventually, we win, here... i just don't expect the $500Billion owed. Some how... they'll mute it... always do.
Look for the opinion to be released in 4-6 months.
Everybody of any intelligence has already figured that the warrants are toast.
Simply can't sell private property thru government means at less than "fair value". Such that as we see fair value here as they are today, remember the claims for taking aren't ripe until taken" w/ fair value well over $100 per share..
Well, selling them at fractional penny would be a slam dunk taking thus, poof..
They are gone.
Yes, that ship sunk a long time ago.
Yes.
Greenberg won.
This is different because none of the others were self dealing..
Any lawyer not taking the warrants case should be keelhauled.
Come on man use your platform for good.
If gov't does...
Lawsuits galore.
It'd be a taking.
Claim would be ripe.
government thru water over everything .. and the courts supported them.
Everyone knows and knew that 10% interest was way more than other tarp loans and more than fed funds rate.
Warrants were absolutely a collateral like incentive. A sweetner that absolutely shackles the these two entities.
Its like running a race with leg weights on..
Heres the thing... no way they can raise any money at fair value with 80% of the entity up for grabs. These things are diabolical in that they give them 80% of the company. 80 whenever used. So, lets say they raise 100 Trillion dollars... and sell 5 trillion shares... guess what.. the guberment then steps in and gets 20 Trillion shares... at no cost. So, complete disaster for those putting money in.
So what do they do. Well... they don't.
So, collateral they must be and they must... go away.
Why give in an inch on the warrants... infact... why not give an extra 10Billion free to the company instead. Lets start negotiating the takings from that perspective and stop caving into people that want without working for it.
Why give even a 10c?
Its typical
its a non starter.
Warrants are insulting.
don't believe everything the governmetn says or akerman or the like.
They speak with forked tonguy publicly and do privately different.
No way imaginable that the warrants do any help or good to the shares of these two. That is nonesense.
Sure.. warrants to buy 80% of apple for 10K is somehow good for the shareholders???
See i wrote that... now it has to be true too... no... its laughable.
Easily agree.
The warrants are an anchor against which it limits the company's ability to maneuver and that is not good for a public company.
They have to go.
Mnooch may not be the best.. nor is calbara he's incompetent...
But yellen... omg... stop already she's dyed in the wool plan stupid.
Her policies in the fed lead to near 0 economic growth. She's a warm spot... at best.
Yellen is a pandering idiot.
She's got 0 brains and is not worth a hoot.
Completely unqualified for the position.
A total fail.
She's been pro-moted far beyond her abilities.
Sorry.
She's an empty ....
1 common 5 25 face...
Still gives them a 20% vig
Once this actually happens...
Then i'd concur.
As it is right now..
The whole lot of them are hot air... lets just hope they deliver.
Fingers still crossed.
Well..
At this point... you got three dollars down... so lets hope that we don't go down a buck a day, but what was meant....
was up a buck...
Actually, going to take a little while till we get to move $1 a day... I'd like to see $1 ups / downs that represent just 5% moves or less.
Cheerio
lol...
Im a commoner...
and my dream ain't $5.50...
Its $65
While fair value is in the $125 range...
Not to be greedy like the guberment.
I don't want it all and i am willing to share.
$65 would do just fine.
If used the warrants become immediate lawsuits. It'll be like putting tooth paste back in the tube.
The damages to the shareholders would be very very large; do you think they really want to try it...
Go ahead... make my day...
Do they feel lucky?
They are poison and can't be used or sold. The only buyer could only be the GSE's themselves, and that is equally dangerous as the $$ paid the us t would still constitute a taking.
If he really wants to turn heads, he'd release or declassify 11,000 documents, release fandf and return 100 Billion plus void those nasty vile warrants.
Now that would be super cool.