But you are forgetting that you will own twice as many shares as you do now. So for a current shareholder, it is only dilutive to the extent that they issue shares to Atlas. So the question is, what does Atlas bring to the table? Money in the bank? Products? Expertise?

That is what mergers are all about. What you bring to the table. How it helps the new company. Surely they have something to contribute.

I just put an order in for 5000 shares to see if will go.

Limit 0.98. 5000 shares.
It executed.

Yea, but I also see where some of the same questions that have been discussed here have been mentioned there. Like how many people are in the sub-group?

If you understand biotech, you understand the problems here. If you don't understand biotech, you should not be investing here. This is not a good place to learn about these types of companies.

So what do you think they are going to do, just not collect on the money that GENTA o

1. Genta borrowed money from them
2. The money borrowed is paid back in shares.
3. There is a set conversion rate the guarantees them a profit.
4. If the stock price goes too low, Genta is REQUIRED to change the conversion rate to ensure they get there guaranteed return.
5. If the price goes too high, Genta can call the notes, and pay them off with interest.

So, if you held the notes, would you want to keep converting them an getting a profit of 500-1000% (or more), or would you just let the price go up and take the 12% interest they have to pay if they call the note? The note holders have all the power. They can keep the price of the stock low by just converting enough to stall any rally. Look what they did a couple weeks ago. The price started to run, went up to over 0.10, and they dumped into it to force it back down.

They will keep doing it until all the shares are converted. That means they have about another 2.5 BILLION to convert.

Positive news? Sure they will let it run and dump a lot of new shares onto the market. Negative? The price will crater, and they will still dump, forcing another reset of the conversion rate, and giving them even more shares.

Strongly disagree. The conversion seem to be accelerating. If you have 18 more days, I think you could be near 300,000,000 by the time the ACSO stuff rolls around. Then they will start the real dump. And that right there will be your trading opportunity. Bought at <0.05?? Then trade some at a nice percentage profit.

Remember, each million dollars in conversions cost us about 70 million shares. So they went from 82 to 127 million, that is about $700K in converted debt.

So we still have well over $25 million to go.

And all those people who keep posting that they "know" what the results are, you better hope not. This is a blinded study. The last press said they have not looked a the data yet. So if they did, two things will happen-

1. The FDA will throw out the results for violating the protocol.
2. The SEC will be looking to put somebody in jail for releasing information that is not available to the public.

Be careful what you say if you don't know for sure.

You do realize that at $1/shares this would have a market cap of $3 Billion. And that would put us with a higher market cap then most biotechs (80%), even some that actually have revenue and are making money?

If they announced that they had 100% OS rate, this would still struggle to get much above 0.25. Why? Because if it goes too high the company will call the debt in and force conversion. The finance people would get screwed. So all they will do is dump into any rally and force the price to stay in a certain range.

Did you not see that happen two weeks ago when it tried to run?

So here is the question for the day...

Who is paying for that new study?

How many new shares are they going to have to issue to pay for that debt?

Remember, each million dollars cost us 70.5 million in new shares.

You guys got me reading tonight.

They took the money. Read note #10 of NOTES TO CONSOLIDATED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, in the last 10K. They took the money and are using it to fund operations. They will run out of money in the third quarter. So they will go back to the well again in the fall.

But here is the really bad news. The conversion price for the conversion was reduced to 0.0142 in March.

People, this is the cycle of this company. They sell stock to keep the doors open. Right now they are going to have to issue about 2.5 billion more shares to cover the last few deals. Then in the fall they will have to do it all again.

My guess is they run it up to 3 billion outstanding, do a 1:100 reverse, getting the outstanding to 3 million, and do a deal to do it all again.

Positive data? Right. It would have to be the cure of all cures. And we know that this is just a data mined sub-set they are looking at.

This could get really ugly even with positive data. If the data is negative, fold up the tents.

And remember- this is a blinded trial. So NOBODY knows the results until the data is analyzed. So don't let anyone tell you they "know" the results are positive. Nobody knows unless they looked at the data. If they looked at the data the trial is tainted. The FDA would laugh at them.

No, they already have the money and are carrying it on the books. See the 10K.

First, the fully diluted is around 2 BILLION, not 100 million.

Second, if you are correct, and Genasense is worth $500 million and Tesetaxwl is $500 million, that is GROSS. So what is the gross margin? Most biotechs are in the 25-40 percent range, so that BILLION in value drops to about $400 million, at the high end.

See my previous post, where I actually used $400 million as a starting point for today's value.

About $25-30 million left to convert. Current conversion rate is at 0.016. So that means the outstanding will increase between 1.5 and 1.8 BILLION more shares.

So with what is now outstanding, figure about 2 billion will be outstanding when all are converted.

If there are 2 billion shares outstanding, and the price is $5/shares, then the value of this company would be $10 Billion.

For comparison, DNDN is worth about $5.7 billion, and has about 1500 employees.

This is worth about 0.20/cents, with approval ($400 Million). Approval is most likely 3 years out, so discount the value by 20% per year (which is VERY generous) and subtract the debt, and you get a value today of about 0.0874. That is about the middle of the range it has been trading in.

Well, Ray and his wife for one...

DNDN had about 100 million shares out when it started to run. This, fully diluted is about 3 BILLION.

There is no comparison. Hype all you want, but until the conversion is out of the way, this will struggle. The finance people control it. If it gets too high, they risk forced conversion and lose money. So anytime they want, all they have to do is convert a lot of shares and drop the price.

Once they are gone, maybe this will run. But my guess is there will be another surprise down the road. In the end the insiders will own 90% of the company.

Well, in the past 25 years I've made a few hundred thousand dollars trading pennies. I make money on good stocks, bad stocks, and everything in between. If you buy 10-15 companies like this, 70% of them will go belly up. But they all have their runs, and that is where you make your money.

I've followed this longer than most I invest in. All the shares I hold right now are free shares. Why? Because I buy low and sell half after they double. If it goes to nothing, I lose nothing. If it goes up, I'll sell and move on.

I love biotech. I have seen too many of these companies, who were going to cure all sort of things, fail. The failure rate is very high for biotech. It is the nature of the business. But you can still make money. If you do your research, buy things you know are going to run, and get out before they run out of money or sell their souls for the next finance deal. For every DNDN I can give you 10 that failed. I made money on DNDN. Bought it low, traded it, and sold it during the ballistic run. Could I have held it to the top? Sure, but what is the top? I'd rather have my 400% gain, sell and move on, then hold and hope for a 2000% gain. Why? Because most don't make it.

Remember-
Bears make money; Bulls make money; Pigs get slaughtered.

You pick.

If they would read the terms of the finance deal, they might have a clue why this is a great trade, and a very poor long.

Someday, maybe.

But for now, as long as they have a BILLION AND A HALF of dilution hanging over their heads, the best play is trading the swings.

And I can't believe someone actually used the term "Technical Analysis" on penny stock. Too funny...

You are exactly backwards. If you buy now you should SELL half when it doubles, then the shares you holding after the sale are risk free. That is how you play these speculative biotech stocks. That is how you trade them.

Based upon what?

But the FDA is not going to approve anything based upon a sub-set of a sub-set of a failed trial. The BEST you can hope for is that the FDA tells them to run another trial on a group the is similar to the sub-set to confirm the results. That would take three to five more years.

Quiz for the day- Can anyone tell us how many patients are actually in the currently target sub-set. And part two- Has the FDA EVER approved a drug based on a group that small??

But some here are right about one thing. Most people don't have a clue how this stuff works. There will be a run up on the false idea that they are close to approval. Trade accordingly. I will.

OK, so they have 6 months to DUMP all their shares.

But where is the rest? They had $31 million at the last reporting. You are accounting for about half that.

The company does not make that decision, the finance people do. Of course, some of the company officers are also investors.

Here is how it works. The company borrowed money from the investors. They don't pay the money back, they allow them to convert the amount owed into shares. That is the conversion. The conversion rate is set by the terms of the deal. The investors have a guaranteed rate of return. The price of the conversion is set to make sure they hit that rate of return. Right now it is about 0.016/share. That means they can convert their debt in to shares at a rate of 0.016/share. So 1 million dollars in debt gives you about 65.5 million shares. If the price goes too low, the company MUST lower the conversion price, which they have done several times already. There is currently somewhere between $25-31 million left to convert. That means about 1.5-2 Billion more shares.

Nice deal if you are an investor. You buy at 0.016 and sell at the market price.

If the price goes too high, the company can force a conversion or buy the debt back. So the investors just make sure it does not run up too much. On good news they just start selling shares until it stops the increase in price. Notice what happened last week. It got too high, the investor just converted shares and dropped them onto the market. Down went the price.

And last week they did it with just 20 million shares. Consider what they would do if they dumped 100 million, or a billion all at once. The point is, they control the price. Until they are done, this will not go anywhere.

This is a simple explanation of how this works. It is really much more complicated than this. But you can get a picture.

Sure, because they have about enough money to last a year. So at that time they will have to go out and look for more. If the current finance deal does not change, they have to issue about 1.5-2.0 BILLION more shares just to cover that. So any new deal...

Read the 10K. They have approval for another reverse split. They will convert all they can, let the outstanding get as high a possible, then reverse it and start again.

The hope for the real longs here has always been that they will get enough positive results that the next time they need money, they can get better terms. Those of us who follow what is going on, and have been for a couple years, don't own the stock. Maybe we buy some for trade, but own nothing long. We are watching as they go through the pump and dump cycles. We know they are doing what they must to get to the finish line. But I'll go long when all the finance shares have been converted, and there are no more reverse splits hanging over our heads. That will be the time.

People can mock me if they want. But go back read my posts from the summer of 2009 forward and see who has had this right. I've been investing in companies like this for 25 years. I know what to look for. I currently follow about 15 companies that are in the same boat as this one. I make some money on them trading, but mostly I just wait for the right entry point, then jump in.

You can read posts here and see that some of these people either have no clue in how to follow a company like this, or they are hyping for some other reason. Watch how on the weekends and holidays they disappear. Sort of like they are only here when the market is open. Like maybe it is a job. Think about it. The finance people have a lot of money on the line.

Ok, here is your morning lesson on Biotech.

ALL results are presented at some conference or another. Scientist present their finding. Positive or negative. This is not an investors conference, it is a scientific conference. The entire idea of a conference is share your results with the world so that others can see what you have done and learn from it. If you did something good, others will want to know. If you did something that did not work, others will want to learn from your mistakes.

Someone mentioned additional financing. They can't do another round until they finish the last round. In the last 10K they said they had $31 million still to convert. With the dilution so far they are down from that number, most likely in the mid to high 20's. For each million they convert they issue about 62.5 million more shares. So they have somewhere around 1.5 BILLION more shares to issue, as long as the price holds up. They way they will do it is keep the bull flowing so that people will buy the shares that are converted. So whey you see the outstanding shares get to start to get close to 2 billion, you will know they are close to finished with this round and can start to do another.

If they do another round BEFORE they finish this one, the stock is dead. Nobody in their right mind is going to give money that puts them in a subordinate position to the current finance deal. New people will want better terms, and the terms of the old deal say that if the company gives someone new a better deal, the old people get the same, better, terms.

There is a reason why they raised the authorized like they did. They know they are going to have to dilute the crap out of this in the next couple years. This is going to get real ugly.

Now it is still a good trade. They will hype it, allow some conversion, then it will drop back. Good cycle it you like trading.

But long? Really? in two years a share buy today will be worth about as much as a share today that was bought 2 years ago. Nothing.

So, they won't release the news until May. Hmmmmmm....

Here is my take. They will release it mid-May just before ASCO. That will put the release right around the time the first ASCO abstracts are released. There will be several THOUSAND released. Perfect time to hide bad results. While everyone is looking for ASCO homeruns, they can float their sub-set of a sub-set of a failed trial. Nobody will even notice the results.

By July they will exceeded the first billion shares. Shares bought today for 0.06 will be worth 0.001 at the most.

I told you last week this was going down. It did.

I'm telling you now, run for the hills.

You got that right.

When I first started buying these small companies, I loved the internet. There were lots of good conversations. Not now, too many kooks who don't have a clue.

I think you nailed it. Why release until all the merger stuff is done. They they can rock. If people were smart, they would be buying on the dips. They won't get that chance once any news starts to flow.

Dude, he does not have to buy shares, he just converts debt. He is one of the fiance people. He holds the debt that is converted into shares. Sure, it looks like he is buying, but it is just converting.

Which is a problem you are always going to have with these small companies.

If they release too much info, they are accused of hyping. Too little and they are hiding something. We are seeing info released. If they get to the point of reporting required amounts of information at required times, I'm happy. I think they will in time.

It is the nature of small companies. If people can't deal with it, they should consider their investment tolerance. I've been investing in small companies for many years. It can be gut wrenching at times. But I do it because I make lots of money on the ones that make it. I think this one will. So I just invest and sit back. It does no good at all if we sit here and cry about every little move they make. We don't matter, we are just small investors trying to make money. I'm comfortable with my DD so far, and I'll just see what happens. Nothing I say can change anything, but negative stuff sure can turn off potential buyers.

I trade this, and have for the past two years. You do understand what a trader is, right? I don't go long. The longest I've ever held this is maybe a week or two.

What I don't like is people who come here and post outright lies, telling people that approval is just around the corner, or the next big announcement is going to send this to the moon. This is a long way from approval. Even the FALSE hype is wrong. The FDA has NEVER approved a drug based on a trial of 9 people. Not going to happen. And they sure won't approve a drug based on a sub-set of a sub-set of a failed trail. They want you to define your end-points before the trial is STARTS, not after you see the data and mold your findings to fit your results. You do understand that a trial requires a hypothesis, which you are trying to prove through the trial. What they are doing here is looking for a hypothesis in the data, after it is over. Did you read the article I posted?

Go back and read my old post here, or ask some that have been here a while (a couple years). I've called this at just about EVERY move. Why do I come here? Because when I see the hype I know it is time for another trip. When the hype dies, the price drops back. See much hype since 2 PM Friday? Nope, the hypers are gone and the price is dropping. But wait awhile, it will happen again. It always does...

Read the 10k. It is all in there for anyone who want to understand how this works.

You don't buy developmental companies (and that is what this is) based on revenue stream. You buy them because of potential. If you bought developmental companies because of revenue streams, the Tech Boom of the 90's would never have happened, because nobody had revenue in the early Tech days. They had potential.

I read so many people here posting like this is an established company. It is not. If it were, the price would be vastly higher. What you are buying here is the idea that they can execute a plan. If they do it right, you make money. If not, you lose. If you trade it properly you are able to hedge your bet some as you go along. Right now I'm setting on a few 100K shares that are bought and paid for by the profits I've made selling on the rallies. It helps that I bought most of my current shares at less than 0.04.

I owned XLPI, or whatever the symbol was in 2002, at something like 0.003. Sold most of it above 0.11. This can be a cash cow, just don't fall in love with it. It is a stock. Buy it and sell it when you have made money. Don't fall in love.

What a fool.

The last 10K showed that there was about $31 Million left to be converted to shares. Based upon the price and conversation rate, there should be about $28-29 million still to go. So how can the dilution be over?

It will be over when that number is ZERO. Until then this is just a trade, nothing more.

The shorting you are seeing are the finance people selling in front of converting. That way, they only convert what they need to. Sell short, convert, cover short. If they did it the opposite way (convert, sell) they might get stuck with shares. They know what these shares are worth, and the last thing they want is be stuck holding any at all.

Well, as long as they owe $30 million to the finance people, and the pay back is shares at one cent, then this is not going anywhere.

Think about the deal these guys have right now. Every share they can convert and then sell to suckers...I mean long investors...they make 10 times their money. With no risk, as long as they can keep the price in this range. Sure, if it goes higher, they make more. But then the conversion changes as well, and the converted shares cost more.

This is in the sweet spot for them. They will do what they can to keep it here. Notice how quickly they let it drop last week. Got too close for them. These are professionals, they know what they are doing.

The sweet spot for us is to get in as close to the end of the finance deal as possible. That will be later this year, or early next, IF THEY DON'T DO ANOTHER DEAL.

Been buying biotech for years. Developmental companies who do this type of toxic finance deals all act the same. Those who know how to play it reap the benefits. The rest who think they do get slaughtered.

Why is everyone so worried about the shorts? So what? Unless you know why someone shorted the stock, this is all just idle speculation.

There are some valid reasons to short a stock. It might just be someone hedging a position. This is the most common reason to short anyway.

I have been an occasional poster here, trying to bring some stability to the level of hype that is posted here. I have traded this stock, and will continue to do so, making money as it goes up and down. I've tried to make an insane situation better by injecting some reality into the hype.

People, this may move up and down, and the company really loves the volume, because it allows the private placement investors to convert and sell, BUT THIS IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE ANY TIME SOON.

Why, you ask?

Have you read the last 10K?

Do you know that there are about 4X as many shares yet to be converted? That would bring the outstanding to 311 million, and that number is subject to go up if they adjust the conversion rate, which they have to do if the price does not go up?

Have you read the results of the AGENDA trial? Do you know that it FAILED THAT TRIAL?

Do you know that the company then data-mined a few statical values from the failed trial results and is attempting to use that as reason to go forward?

Have you ever read what the FDA'a opinion is of data-mined values from subset of failed trials?

Here, read this article:

http://www.biotechspeculators.com/2009/04/take-that-subset-analysis-and-shove-it/

I'll say this, this company might be make it some day. And investors who are still here will be rewarded. But until all the overhead (convertible shares) is gone, this is just a good trade. In a year or so, if they have converted all of the shares, executed that last reverse split, and have not sold their souls again, then that is the time to go long. Until then, stop the hype. There is a reason why they raised the Authorized shares to over a BILLION. Because they EXPECT to need it before they do the next reverse split. So buy a share to day for 0.10, hold it long, and it will be worth 0.001 or less after all the resets and conversions.

Long? Tell that to the people I posted this same information to 2 years ago, and are now holding shares of this company that are functionally worthless.

Suckers bought and winners sold.

People, this will not move up substantially until all the underlying shares are in the market, the last R/S is done, and there is no more overhang.

Otherwise, this is just a good penny trade.

if you are holding long, you are going to lose big.

Buy the rumor, sell the news. Too simple.

OK, Scottrade just canceled it twice. First "Invalid Symbol" second "no longer trading".

E-trade is still open and pending. (Not that it will actually execute)

Just did another one on Scottrade, 500 @ 0.10. They accepted the trade. It has not executed either.

Well, Just put one in on e-trade and they placed it. I did it for 2000 at 0.10.

I'll let you know if they cancel it.

I'm showing the same on Scottrade.

Thought about putting an order in at 0.12 and see what happens.

To me, this is all good. I'm in on the cheap and have already sold enough to cover my investment. When I found the old company at sub one cent I made a killing. I think this has an interesting chance.

I always think it is interesting how people debate these small companies to death. I could care less about what they make or how they make it. As long in the end, the price moves up. I don't care how they do it, Hook or Crook. I will be long gone before it matters. If they want to pump and dump, fine with me. If they take a penny stock and turn it into the next Microsoft, that is fine as well.

It is a game of percentages. If I buy at 0.03 and it goes to 0.60 that is 2000%. If it is at 0.60 and goes up 2000%, that is $12. Now which is is most likely to do- go from 0.03 to 0.60 or go to 0.60 to $12?

My point is just this- Sit back and watch. Make your money and wait for the next one.

I think part one is correct. Part two, the sales force is debatable. Did I read somewhere that they have two employees? The CEO and CFO (or something like that?)?

If you have ever invested in shell companies (I have), this is exactly what you look for. I once thought about buying $1000 worth of 10 shells just to test the theory. Hell, that is why I held on here for so long, just in case someone bought this out for some other reason. I bought XCEL (?) at sub-zero and sold in the teens. Only takes one like that to make all the rest profitable.

They are up to something here. Not sure what, but there seems to be a plan that should move this up. My only questions is should I buy some Atlas? Anyone thought of that??

Looks to me like they are getting their ducks in a row before they start to release any contract information. That is smart. They don't want to start releasing information, then have a bunch of new investors get pissed because they can't find anything out about the company.

First they clear up the old SEC stuff. Check.
Next they changed the name. Check.
Next they release financial. Check.
Next start releasing PR about your operations and contracts.

And paying anyone $200K does not bother me. I make nearly that and I'm just a lowly worker in a busy business. That is chump change. Their ownership in the company aligns their interest with us, the shareholders. We make money, they make money. That is good.

This is how it is done. I think we are on the right path.

For the record, I've been an owner for years, back to the Slick 50 days. I've made tons of money trading this, and own a lot of shares that are "free" to me at this point.