Bernard - very professional, this is going to be an awesome resource for traders and investors.

Good Investing

horseshoer

Click back on the post he refers to, it will clear up the confusion. Very nice charts Bernard, regards.

imho, Jerome

Well, since I am currently out of time to do this project, looks like Bernard has taken it and ran with it.

He da man.

http://www.otcbbpulse.com/index.html

Wireless Synergies Inc. (OTCBB:WLSY), announced that it has entered into an agreement and plan of merger with 2KSounds Inc., an integrated music company with resources and backing available from Virgin Records and EMD (division of EMI).

Look here for the numbers and 3 month chart!
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=wlsy&sid=0&o_symb=wlsy&f...

2KSounds http://www.2ksounds.com/ locates and promotes new musical talent, and produces and distributes their music through a variety of methods, including joint ventures with major labels, sub-labeling and partnerships on albums by existing artists. Most significant, 2KSounds has entered into a direct distribution agreement with EMD, a division of EMI, one of the five major world-wide music companies, under which EMD will distribute all of 2KSounds music offerings.

Only in business for approximately two years, in its first full fiscal year ended Dec. 31, 2001, 2KSounds earned approximately $1.5 million before taxes on total revenues of approximately $6.0 million.

For the entire PR, read on http://knobias.com/individual/public/news.htm?eid=3.1.70c5d5ab481a0e28102edaff443b7c9c4894b221e7e25b...

20:1 forward split announced in SEC filing (from 8K filed 3/4/02):

"...stockholders will be asked to approve an amendment
to the certificate of incorporation of such corporation which will increase the
number of shares of Common Stock the corporation is authorized to issue, and
effect a 20-for-1 split of its outstanding Common Stock..."

Read the entire amended 8K here http://knobias.10kwizard.com/filing.php?repo=tenk&ipage=1666824&doc=1&total=&back=1&...

For further information, please contact Richard Fixaris at Investor Relations Services Inc. at 386/409-0200 or rfixaris@invrel.net; or John Guidon, chief executive officer, 2KSounds Inc. 818/593-2225; e-mail: //www.invrel@2ksounds.com/'>www.invrel@2ksounds.com.



CONTACT: TEL: 713/785-6809 Wireless Synergies Inc., Houston
Benjamin Hansel

eh, tsquare?? You are directing your post to Jerome... and I don't know what you're talking about... anyway, I'm done with the index, and I believe it's working fine. Just that I don't have the intraday high and low... I don't know if I should get that figure out... but I think I can if I want... anyway

http://www.otcbbpulse.com/newindex.html

signed,
Bernard

1)Last total Daily volume
2)Ten day average volume
3)Last trade

Muell You have acess to the bid/ask end of day data. been looking for it for years it seems. Do a little coding myself and might have a good ideal for the bid/ask information

Great going on the index so far. except can you divide the total averages by 1 millon so it won't look so large. other wise great, can't wait to see the weighted indicator up and running



4)Bid
5)Ask



6)Change
7)% Change
8) S8's & 144's

Bernard looks good so far

would like to comment on dotcoms volume price ideas. Why dont you try to devide the price of the stock into the daily volume. This will give a stock with .25, 25% of it volume for the day. A stock with a price of $2 will have a volume count of double. and of course AMJC with a volume of 100 mill will have 100 thoundands of there volume. Now we have an even playing field.

Now all you have to do is figure out how to use the volumer and price to come up with the weighted formula for your indicator.

My ideal for this would be to average the total for bbs over say 5 days. then divide the total (or percent of total) into the volume of stock and with the number, you multibly the rise or fall diference for each stock.

Try this one

Have fun with this one, Though The second part may be on the right track it won't work as it stands, will have to thing about it and get back to you.

benard one question, why won't a simple add and subtract work as I mentioned in pluse daytrading room?

Help! I need someone to refresh my memory, in 2000, between October and Year End, the OTC market was really really dead, due to tax loss sell off, right?

I need to confirm that with my chart, I think I have the OTC Index ready, that's what the data is telling me... but I can't remember exactly.

TIA everyone!!

signed,
Bernard

I think we have good foundational material, currently.

But for the next while, my plate is full as it can get right now.

Got way too much stuff going on to fire up/finish off this project right now.

But it will remain on my list of stuff to do in my off time. Shouldn't take much more than just going through and making it filter stuff and record data automatically. Candy, baby, candy.

MB

>>> Matt, in the last few posts,...

all the main parameters have been defined and OKayed by no less an expert as Bird of Prey... Now, it's time for you to get cracking and whip up the OTC-BB-100 Index, which should smooth out the Data...

Then we can watch how it behaves against the Russell 2000 and the other Indexes, before moving on to the OTC-BB-400....

JMHO, F. Goelo + + +

Updated for Tuesday....

http://matt.investorshub.com/otcindex.html

What a whacky index. It truly does show the movement of some OTC stocks and why you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket with the little boogers. Definitely gotten broaden the range of stocks.

Been lazy, but I'll get crackin' on it again. Found a few bugs in the current code. Gotta hammer those out, then I'm gonna do a OTC Sort and find some ones that meet criteria.

mb

Good point, BB instead of OTC, if it's OTC-BB it clears up the confusion.

imho, Jerome

I have to agree with FG and DD on the P/V equation. 50,000 shares of volume looks good until you realize it only represents $1000 bucks! FG's figures are a good starting point, things can always be adjusted.

Also, may I suggest calling them the BB-100 and BB-400, there has been discussion before about the NAZ being an OTC style exchange and some people could get confused.

The Bird of Prey

>>> Matt, concerning Volume...

it would be better to use an equation price x volume over a period of one month, since the components of the Index should be reviewed monthly...

I suggest trying $5,000/day for the OTC-400 and double that for the OTC-100, as starting points before tweaking and fine tuning...

FG

>>> Jerome, very good point...

Rather than focussing only on volume, it's the value of the shares transacted that is Significant: similarly, the number of shares in a company is meaningless, what counts is the Market Cap...

FG

>>> Claire, very good Idea for the OTC-100...

which is supposed to be the pick of the crop... I think the ratio between Debt and Equity in the last Quarter should be less than 1, meaning that the company has no more Debt than Equity...

FG

I can't argue with that.

Fred

The bias should obviously be toward the good companies, what good is an index full of .02 stocks that do $2500 worth of trades daily? A longer m/a of price times volume is better, otherwise its just a momo index, but that's what most bb's are good for anyway. But I think if you are wanting to create a good longterm index, you choose the best companies, which rise and fall with the mkt condidtions, not the momo players swarming.

imho, Jerome

DD, I think you have suggested the best, the simplest and the cleanest method separating the wheat from the chaff. An extended (100-day, perhaps) moving average of (price times volume) might work.

Nahhh, maybe it depends on what you are trying to do. I have a bias toward more substantial companies, but that may not be the desire of folks who like the REALLY cheap ones.

Fred

Good Morning DD,
I'll stay the course with the ten day average for an index of OTCBB stocks. Other indexes use a much longer time period for volume stats, with the OTCBB volatility I'd think the shorter time period would give a more accurate accounting.

muell <g>

For a screener for OTC stocks try the one at DimGroup.cohttp://www.dimgroup.com/cgi-bin/screener.pl
however it is only good for price. A couple of years back I use to use Equity Analytics screener, have not checked lately if it still available.

Good Investing

horseshoer

Volume, I would tend to be on the lower count, because otherwise, you are going to wind up with an index full of .01-.10 stocks that are so-so, and exclude some of the best OTC's with good managment that resists dilution.

If you look at a stock like BMKS, with 144,000 daily average, that's fine, it should be on the index. Now, XNET, has a daily volume of 36,000, so a higher volume average would exclude XNET.

However, BMKS trades at .015/.02 and XNET at .27/.32, which means that BMKS trades on daily average $2,520 worth of stock, while XNET trades on daily average $10,620 worth of stock.

So, probably a combination of a lower average daily volume, combined with a minimum net dollar amount traded daily is your best bet.


imho, Jerome

Matt,
Why not add for the selection of the stocks, some limit on the solvency ratios( cash or quick ratios and debt ratio also), as liquidity or debt is often a concern for the business of these otcbb stocks?

>>> Matt, here is the LIST of ALL OTC-BB's...

http://www.otcbb.com/static/symbol.stm

http://www.otcbb.com/dynamic/tradingdata/download/allotcbb.txt

I don't know exactly what they mean by "other-OTC"....

FG

Here is the link to the S&P criteria:

http://www.spglobal.com/GeneralCriteria.pdf

MB

>>> Matt, Absolutely NO PINKS on the OTC Index...

All must be fully reporting companies and will be dropped the moment they cease to be...

You have to be very flexible with the volume criteria, as usually the better OTC-BB's have fewer shares outstanding and therefore less volume... I'd say 15/20,000 shares/day is about top to start screening...

I'd rather tigthen the other criteria but not eliminate little known OTC's with few shares out, as they're often the best value and the most genuine company... Here is an extreme Example, even though it's a NASDAQ stock...

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/d/dtagy.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=t&s=DTAGY

I believe that there are now just under 3,800 (3,797, to be exact) OTC-BB stocks and that the broad Index should be limited to 400 stocks and called OTC-400...

http://www.otcbb.com/dynamic/tradingdata/monthly/generalstatistics.htm

http://www.otcbb.com/TradingData/HistAnnualStats.stm

Most of the heavily traded stocks don't even reach 1 cent, which is why they have such high volume and are really distorting the general Volume Stats for the OTC-BB, as a whole...

http://www.otcbb.com/dynamic/tradingdata/daily/activebyshare.htm

http://www.otcbb.com/dynamic/tradingdata/top100list/top100.htm

Have Fun!....

FG

If you don't mind my conjecture, when you're considering the volume of an OTCBB stock, please consider the ten day average volume and not daily. As for what I think is a good figure, I'd put it a little higher than either of you have, but then thats my preferrance and not yours.

muell <g>

Thanks Bird.

Good to see my volume numbers that I grab match up with their data, which is the official data, apparently.

http://www.otcbb.com/dynamic/tradingdata/monthly/AverageDailyPriceandVolume.htm

MB

Matt,


like the story so far...

try here for some stats

http://www.otcbb.com/dynamic/marketstats.htm

The Bird of Prey

I believe we have to set out some minimum Criteria for a stock to make the grade, for example:

+ Shells should be excluded, as they respond differently than other OTC-BB's and there already is an excellent site tracking them: http://www.shellstockreview.com

+ Minimum average Volume, for the sake of liquidity, should be at least 10 to 20,000 shares per day...

I think we can do better than that. At least 50-100k in volume. Keep in mind there are a LOT of dormant OTCBB/Pinks out there. We don't want those.


+ Minimum Market Cap should probably be over $1 million, which should elimunate most of the Shells, anyway...

+ Minimum Sales of perhaps $500,000/year would eliminate companies that don't really have a business going...

+ Minimum share price of 1 cents should also be considered...

Agreed.


Matt, once we agree on all the main Criteria, all you have to do is feed them into a stock Screener to see what comes out of it... We can institute tougher Criterias to produce an OTC-BB Index with 100 stocks components (OTC-100), besides a broader one encompassing approximately 10% of all OTC-BB stocks (OTC-400 to 600), assuming we can get a figure on how many there really are...

Yahoo prints and index of 1900. These are apparently listed, reporting ones that they track. No pinks need to go on this thing.

In addition, the Indexes could be dynamic as to their components and reviewed monthly, since certain companies may stop filing and become Pink, while other suddenly make the Criteria grade...

Yes, this is what will keep the index valuable. Constant review of the included companies.


First thing is to get a complete list of OTC-BB companies from otcbb.com, apply the parameters discussed above and see how many are left standing... If there are too many, then let's evenly tighten the parameters to get the broad Index of 10% of all OTC-BB stocks and tighten even more to get the pick of the crop, the OTC-100, bearing in mind that all stock Indexes are Elitists...FG

Sounds like a good place to start. Yahoo does screening, but I don't think it does it for OTC. Will check. Got any other ones?

Also, we need a solid figure on the OTCBB Market (listed, reporting companies -- NO pinks)

MB

>>> Matt, Proposed Stock Selection for Index...

http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=250145

In addition, a little twist could be added: perhaps a large percentage of the Index, say 80 to 90% could be determined by the cold application of pre-determined parameters, while a small portion 10 to 20% would be stocks proposed by posters, that would be outside the parameters, but which have some redeeming features...

The drawbacks are the introduction of arbitrary decisions - other than the initial determination of the parameters - and a lot more work for iHUB staff... The benefit is that it would keep posts churning and quite a few posters interested...

FG

xx or Josh will be away for a couple of days.

muell <g>

No. I'm the anti-Scam. <g>

OTC-BB's used to be my main thing and I dabbled in one or two in the past couple of years, but they're not my thing these days. I'm more conservative.

I don't have anything against OTCBB as a whole and think an astute, experienced investor with an aggressively speculative mindset can do quite while in them if he doesn't mind doing real research and can handle getting burned from time to time when even real research doesn't show him a problem. And while a lot of people would likely disagree with me, I've rarely been LTB&H on BB's. To me, they're trading stocks. Heck, most are, to me.

It's kinda like options. Upside can be multiples of your money, downside can be every penny of it. And though a good 40% of the options I ever bought expired worthless, the profits made from the other 60% (often an opposite position) more than offset the losses.

The only "problem" I've ever had with OTCBB is the companies in which shareholders want only to cheer on the randomly-named horse they've bet on and ignore anything that doesn't support their optimism. ("That horse has a broken leg, you fool!" -- "Shut up, basher!" <g>)

In many cases, the companies themselves (directly or indirectly via promoters) are responsible for getting that mindset established, and usually for the purpose of picking pockets.

Heck, I was just gonna cite FTEL as a BB I traded very profitably for a long time, and that later ended up on the Amex (I quit once it got there. No trading opps because it just sat), but I see now that it (FCM) has been halted for 2 months. Lordy!

So, no, I don't hate OTCBB. I hate scams, hype, deaf cheerleaders, and people who call the decisions of others mistakes without saying why. And people on both sides of such discussions who lack the intelligence to attack the viewpoint rather than the person.

And it tends to gravitate toward stocks that are cheap, regardless of the exchange or market they're on, because too many people who don't have the experience or resources necessary for that kind of speculation put all their eggs in the one basket and say a prayer.

Bob? formerly SI Bob? Same dood?

Supporting something regarding the OTCBB?

I thought you were known as the OTCBB Anti-Christ?!

Cool! Holler if you need any help. I think this is a feature I'd call "way cool" and would give it a comparatively high priority level on my list.

Interesting link. Even more interesting that they display their formula, which looks kind of goofy.

One major problemo there with the site:

For only $44.95 per month, the information that moves the OTC:BB market is yours.

You can't even see the Index values for free!

They are basically selling you the OTCBB equivalent of Yahoo Naz/NYSE info. Which is understandable, considering that OTC information is hard as heck to get.

The datatracking is simple enough to just make it a daily routine of iHub and throw it in for free as another attraction. I don't want to get into all that other garbage they are doing.

Very interesting site, though.

My forumla is very simple, and what I think all others are based on:

Index Value = (current stock price x no of shares) + (same thing for other 10/100)

MB

Check out this website. Might get some pointers on what you are attempting to do.

http://www.otccharts.com

Disclaimer
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=135097

Muel:

I want to be clear on exactly what we are building here.

I want this thing to work like the S&P 500 or the QQQ Trust.

Selective picking of stocks to TRACK the OTC in general. To find trends in the OTC market place.

I'm not creating the index to allow people to 'quick pick a stock' to get in there. Nor should the Index stocks be used as a tip sheet.

All I want from it, is a way to track the general sentiment of the OTC BB Market place. Money flowing in or out. We can build on it from there, but the idea is to see if it's possible to chart out this market place, like the Dow/SP is done.

Not totally sure where I am going with it yet, but I am going there.

The question remains: How do we add/subtract companies from the Index. We need a standard critera. Actually, I'll cruise on over to the S&P site and see what their selection basis is on.

Where is xx? I'd like his thoughts.

MB

P.S. If this thing actually does get rolling on a larger scale once it's all done, I won't be trading in any OTCBB stocks. Not that I actually do right now, anyways.

I've added volume to track as well.

Some interesting stuff happened intraday so far to the Index.

http://matt.investorshub.com/otcindex.html

Huge move in one stock popped the thing over over 10%! LOL

Umm..I think I better start figuring out how to add more stocks.

If anything, this will go to show just how volatile this market really is.

One thought (out of the many you will get) would be to use stocks (trading at less than n.nn) that have individual boards on iHub. The reasons I suggest this are:

1) If members are talking about a stock, it is more significant to them.
2) If no-one will sponsor a stock by managing a board for it, it probably is not worth including.
3) Penny stocks have a tendency to be here today, gone tomorrow. If there is a board, it is more likely that the "gone tomorrow" ones will be identified and removed more quickly.

CopOut: These ideas are intrusive and stupid since I don't trade penny stocks and have only the most casual interest in them.

Fred

One of the most important issues for playing the OTCBB stocks for me is SEC forms S-8 and 144's, I think these two tell a big part of the story of a stock and where it's headed! If I were going to set up a table to track OTCBB stocks, the parameters I'd want covered are

1)Last total Daily volume
2)Ten day average volume
3)Last trade
4)Bid
5)Ask
6)Change
7)% Change
8) S8's & 144's


muell <g>

Muel:

In building the core index components are you planning to include a limited number from each sector, or just the hottest stocks in the OTCBB?


Excellent question. That is what I am asking this board to propose. WHAT/HOW is the best way to track the OTC. It's a totally different market than the other ones. Dyanmics are like no other. So I believe there is a different way we need to track this puppy.

Question is, what is it.

Code monkey:

I'm already done with it. I just need it to track for a few more days to make sure it works the way it is suppost to. Matter of fact, I'm gonna run it now to see how it compares to the current Naz/Dow.

MB

This is an excellent idea! Once you guys hash out a weighting algorithm and a list of stocks, I'd be more than happy to put together a database and code to track it. Unless Matt's already pretty far along on it.

Excellent, Frank.

We can put the ideas together here.

For those who don't know what I am trying to build, based on Frank's idea, read the last few dozen posts on this board:

http://www.investorshub.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=825

Here is the link where I am building the app/database to do the work, as time permits, and logging changes.

http://matt.investorshub.com

MB