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Anything new with this one? Looks like its pretty much dead to me.
I'm going to keep a close eye on this one. I putting in a order to see if I can get lucky and pick up some shares at .02 I doubt it will happen but its worth a try. Looks like there is some potential with this one.
Up 100% this week. Reason for the strong rise?
1. The unsecured creditors are going gung ho in their lawsuit. They have almost 80 documents on file where they are suing the first lien group for over half a billion bucks, which with interest and damages could change the nature of this bk. If they win, then there could be huge value for the common.
2. Over 200 new homes were sold in the month of October, about half of them in Texas where there has been less effect of the market meltdown. Should be about 80 million bucks worth again this month.
3. The plan of reorganization has almost no chance of being accepted and we are probably a year away from even getting to see a viable plan that takes into the active and progressive lawsuit mentioned in item 1. Truthfully the plan should be abandoned or modified to correct the objections to it and account for the possibility of the first liens being held illegal and invalid.
4. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes has a precedent that if one class benefits from a suit as in item 1, then all classes get to share in the benefit. That's us.
UP 36% today. Up over 100% last week
What the heck is going on?
Is there an actual possibility that eventually, value exists for the common?
close .06
I'm not enthusiastic about this stock but the lawsuit against the 1st lien holders must be looking good to someone so they are bidding up the price. I also suspect this will still be in bankruptcy next year at this time and many things could happen between now and when the fat lady sings.
I also don't think the initial Plan will be approved.
Do you think there is still any hope left in this stock? I have been thinking of trying to pick some up at .03 range but I haven't decided yet.
Why the upward movement? up 50 % yesterday.
looks like totally worth less. this economy stinks and the stock is .02! sorry to see it this way. how can they ever pay their debts?
Proposed Plan
is at
http://www.kccllc.net/tousa
That's all the court documents.
If the financial sector bail-out works then the plan rips off the common. I think if credit loosens, then the votes won't be there to approve the plan.
I look for several more plans to be submitted before we get approval.
what do the plan said, is there a link to it?
TIA.
Plan filed today that gives shareholders nothing.
If it is accepted then no value.
However, only time will tell if it will be accepted.
The list of properties sold last month has been posted. Seems to be business as usual. Meanwhile the lawsuit against first tier lien holders is progressing as usual. As is the shareholder lawsuit.
Tousa, Inc. and greeks eliminated from Class action lawsuit.
Durgin v. Mon, Keller, kotler, McAden. Consolidated Amended CLass Action complaint for violations of Federal securities laws.
CV06-61844 Marra
TOUSA is not named as a defendant in this action because it and certain of its subsidiaries and affiliated entities filed for relief under Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code in Fort Lauderdale on January 29, 2008.
Filed 9/19/2008
lol thats sad about the pecan tree, i like pecan pies. On that note weirdly enough i was expecting things to movie earlier, because an la times article mentioned that the amount of inventory available has decreased from 10 to 6 months. Add to that the fact that builders, construction what have you is virtually nill. Perhaps im missing a factor but shouldnt things be accelerating because supply should be decreasing fast.
Ike broke my crystal ball(and my pecan tree), but I'm looking at the spring of 2009 for some great news on the economy and on home builders, which will push up the profits and pps of Tousa.
any ideas when that may be things have been getting better in patches
Last month, Tousa paid 80 million to the secured creditors.
Sales were about 80 million.
They have over 1 billion left in inventory.
Not the best of conditions, but they are still building and selling properties and appear capable of doing so for awhile, possibly until the market conditions improve.
Old but interesting article.
Friday, March 14, 2008
TOUSA's Chapter 11 to focus on intercompany claimsSouth Florida Business Journal - by Paul Brinkmann
Home builder TOUSA's Chapter 11 reorganization is nearing its meeting of creditors, set for 1 p.m., March 19, at the federal courthouse in downtown Fort Lauderdale.
Meanwhile, attorneys representing the debtor are discussing a mid-May date for filing of claims, aside from intercompany claims.
"We'll be hiring an expert to investigate intercompany claims, given the fact that there will be a spotlight on that issue," said Daniel Golden, counsel to the official committee of unsecured creditors.
"I would suspect intercompany claims will be one of the main events," Judge John K. Olson responded.
Golden is from the New York office of Akin Gump Strauss Hauer and Feld. Dozens of attorneys from firms in New York, Connecticut, California and Florida have appeared in the case.
The bankruptcy case promises to be one of the most complex ever seen in South Florida, involving $2.3 billion of assets and almost as much in liabilities.
The case will restructure more than $2 billion in debt obligations, including those related to bank debt, senior and subordinated public bond debt, and complex land bank option and development contracts, according to New York law firm Kirkland & Ellis, which represents the debtor.
Bankruptcy includes 38 debtors
The complexity of the case includes TOUSA's structure, which in the Chapter 11 includes 38 debtors representing brands Engle Homes, Newmark Homes, Harris Estate Homes and Trophy Homes.
TOUSA entered bankruptcy with a plan to obtain debtor-in-possession (DIP) financing from Citigroup Global Markets for up to $150 million.
But some noteholders objected, saying noteholders can prove TOUSA has substantial cash reserves. Some of those objections are still pending.
The objections, filed by Miami-based Genovese, Joblove & Battista, also said the company committed constructive fraudulent conveyance in July, when it "forced" its subsidiaries to grant its first and second lien term loan lenders secured guaranties of $500 million, and to guaranty its $700 million in revolving credit to pay debts related to the Transeastern joint venture.
TOUSA's plan proposes that senior noteholders will receive common stock in a reorganized company, that unsecured claims would receive a pro-rata share of the common stock, and holders of the company's subordinated notes may receive stock warrants and a proportionate share of proceeds generated by a litigation trust, which other holders would also share.
Hollywood-based TOUSA's presence in South Florida includes Engle Homes projects in Cooper City, Doral and Delray Beach.
Attorney Natasha Labovitz, a partner in the restructuring group of Kirkland & Ellis, has been a lead counsel for the debtor.
She recently told Judge Olson that TOUSA has a comprehensive program to communicate with creditors, claimants and buyers involved in the bankruptcy reorganization, including a hotline and updated information on a Web site.
The current online claims register shows the largest single claim - $2.4 million - under Cora Wiltshire, represented by attorney Gregory Grossman of Astigarraga Davis in Miami.
pbrinkmann@bizjournals.com | (954) 949-7562
List of Homes Sold in August 2008 are now posted on court site. The list is encouraging to me as it shows they are still in business building and selling properties all over the country. If they can hang on for a few more months, things will look much better, IMO.
its a battle of attrition who can out last who the sellers holding on too their prices or buyers raising more money, as for the old SH lawsuit im having a tough time seeing how they will prevail unless they can show management some how breached their duties.
This week, monthly report shows:
July Sales 90 Million
gross profit 7.5 million
net -25 million
Inventory remaining 1.1 billion
If the real estate market starts turning up, then it should be easy to turn the business around and start generating net profits again.
This is about where the plan suggested we would be at this time.
The lawsuit against the first lien holders is proceeding. Should go to trial in Jan or Feb.
The old shareholder lawsuit is proceeding but I don't think it will prevail as market conditions was reason for most of problems, don't you think?
any news whats going on
Volume today?
Did we have zero volume today?
ditto, the whole market is choppy i just cant imagine who is selling at this level.
I still see eventual equity, even with the terrible housing market.
The company remains intact with over 90 million sales per month in a horrible environment. I don't see any sign of weakness in the multi-year continuing operation plans as they have a boatload of cash.
Not sure why pps should be droping now, but maybe just seeing all these costs of administration and claims is discouraging to some small investors. The number of shares sold is still pretty small so not everyone is panicking.
The case is proceeding against the first lien holders and the result could be good for the shareholders.
If they win, one might ask if it affects shareholders. I say it will because of a unique supreme court case from long ago.
The case is an "all or nothing" type case that often says that all classes benefit if one class benefits. The Oliver Wendell Holmes decision is at Moore v. Bay, 284 U.S. 4 (1931).
I read it to say that, if the suit is successful, this takes the balance sheet (equity) from negative to positive in a substantial way, immediately.
My argument for owning this stock has been that eventually, the companies continued operations will take it there even in a modest recovery, or a buyer will come along eventually and take it there, but those take longer.
Therefore the pps should be going up with the news, not down....
Go figure.
yeah! we broke out of trading range! but in the downside range.
I guess it was nothing to shout about otherwise you would be, GL, on another note recent reports say this is just the beginning of the demise of the housing industry.
It's out. June sales were okay. The plan seems to be falling in line.
I believe today...Bloomberg.
When is June Sales going to be released?
We need some good news to offset the dreaded paying of administration expenses.
Profit on Home Building and other things are going smoothly.
The new DIP financing of 135 million to 650 million has not been tapped yet but is needed as a cushion, so it will likely be extended too, I think. That's in spite of the company selling new homes at a value of 100 million a month, generating cash so that they are flush right now and proposing to pay down first lien in amount of 175 milion.
What concerns me is whether First Lien will have to pay the committee of unsecured creditors to sue them. It would really suck to know you have to pay the cost of someone to sue you, but that is what is probably going to happen. The amount is 800 million or so and the debt could go poof if the committee is successful.
Another concern is the fact that TOUSA has a business plan that they are keeping under seal. The pps of tousq.pk could be affected if the plan is published and that concerns me. But if the competitors could use the info to hinder the future profits of TOUSA, then I suppose I can live with the plan being kept secret. One thing I do know is that the secret plan has this company turning a profit and paying off all the debt. I just don't know how long that is going to take. Currently the company is ahead of the plan.
New May Financial Info Released:
May Sales: Land and Homes: 101,761,597
Cost of Sales: 96,880,748
Total sales year to date: 494,929,123
Duff
Gridlock.
There are some small orders to sell at .17 that don't get filled.
There are some huge orders to buy at .16 that don't get filled.
Right now, we are in stalemate, probably waiting for the Ernst Financials to come out to see what an independent auditor thinks about the current value of Tousa,Inc. When it comes out, I honestly don't know whether it will affect pps. Probably not much, but there are still some shorts that need to cover and some funds that need to dump.
Meanwhile, the company continues to build out new properties. May figures will probably be out next week. Anyone willing to add up the number of homes sold for May? It is document 1124 and I'd like to know whether it compares favorably to April, but too lazy to count them.
This is an easy ten bagger at 17 cents. You just have to buy and hold until something happens and that could be soon or it could be this time next year.
Daffy Duff.
ps: PINK SHEET HELL- Warning! If you decide to buy at .17 or the current ask, you will be sorely disappointed at how many shares trade. Only a handfull are available at .17 so if you want in you will have to up your bid to .18 and again, only a handfull are available. Sorry, but that is pink sheet hell and thats just the way it is.
So, financials will eventually be released by Ernst, maybe today? You say they are being paid big money for financials.
What will the release do for pps?
How much lower can the pps go if bad?
How high if good?
oooo they just want someone to talk to on the bus or to call for help when their getting shanked on it.
Why because you have a bunch of panzy azz liberal ecology freaks that would rather see everyone paying 16 bucks a gallon rather than disturb the environment, thats why!
One More Chance. Financials MAY come out next Thursday.
----
TOUSA Inc (TOUSQ.PK) Corporate Event Announcement Notice
Jun 04, 2008 (Wall Street Horizon via COMTEX News Network) --
TOUSA Inc (TOUSQ.PK)
Expected next earnings release:
Announcement date: 6/12/2008 - After Market
Earnings Quarter: Q4
Announcement Status: Unconfirmed
-------
oil is hurting econmoies of the world. why wouldnt the government allow drilling for oil in US or other places? TOUSQ will be a hold as posted on board on IH wrote.
Those were definitely all 'buys' rather than sells, but didn't do anything for getting the price to move up.
There were probably several hundred thousand shares for sell at the ask (.19) so the 200 share buys did nothing. Still, we now have more owners than we did and maybe they will not want to sell at these prices so it ended up okay in my mind.
Just someone supporting the ask trying to get it to move, imo.
I hear you. I'm a little antsy right now with all thats happening with the lawsuit against the main creditor. I don't need to watch a market maker play tricks all day.
This is an easy ten bagger for all the equity holders, if they just hold for a few weeks.
Hey Duff, What is joelxyz58's beef with you? He is very annoying and aggressive towards you. Been reading your posts for a few months TOUSA and appreciate the input. I think this could be huge if things go right. IMO. Anyway's Thanks!!!
MM's probably trying to get attention and get it to move up. IMO.
What the heck is going on?
Has anyone noticed the strange pattern of trades of 200 shares at .19?
I count 33 identical such trades in the last two hours spaced evenly.
bid/ask 0.16 X 0.19
volume extremely low with just 1.6 hours til closing: 25k.
What is going on? Is the market maker playing games?
Daffy Duff
Stupid heading.
"JUDGE SAYS TOUSA CREDITORS CAN SUE"
Of course creditors can sue, but what this really says is that Citibank, First lien group, is providing substantial operating cash to this company and that the court is essentially giving the "committee of unsecureds" the right to put them out of business by allowing a suit against them (Citibank). It was not contemplated by them or management that this would happen. They are getting interest payments now on the cash they are providing to Tousa, but after the ruling yesterday, are now in a world of hurt.
They (citibank) got the shaft for overreaching. But being sued by unsecured creditors is NOT in debate any longer as the court has issued the order permitting the lawsuit to proceed. I strongly expect it to be settled before January if Citibank has a brain cell left. It is not good for them and could cost them at least 800 million as the Judge said.
This is a good time to hold your tousq.pk shares. Don't plan on selling and being able to buy back in when the settlement is announced. One minute they are worth 16 cents and the next they may be worth 10 bucks or 13 or 20. Could happen today or could happen in the week before the January 2009 trial which is when most settlements occur. Whatever the settlement is, that's what the shares(equity) will be worth. After that, the 2 billion dollars of encumbered assets this company currently has will see the debt dissapear by at least 40 percent. By January, the debt should be paid down a little anyway under the current plan of 90 million revenue per month. Then the 800 million windfall for fraudulent conveyance will reduce it further. Maybe 50%.
JUDGE SAYS TOUSA CREDITORS CAN SUE
The Judge set a Jan. 20 trial date.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/05232008/business/judge_says_tousa_creditors_can_sue_112159.htm
"Deferral to some later time is not in the best interest of this estate," Olson said. Reorganization isn't possible with an "$800 million question mark hanging over this estate," he said.
So what would an additional 800 million net worth do for tousq.pk stock if the suit is successful? (The book value per share of that increase in net worth is about 13.33) So add 13.33 to the 0.165 that it is trading at today for a rough estimate... <g>
So how likely is it that the First Lien Group (Citibank) loses this suit? I'm thinking that Judge Olson would NOT have approved this unless it had merit so I think it is more likely than not that the suit will be successful in finding fraud in the transactions and thus the complete amount will be unenforcible against any party to the bankruptcy, including the debtors.
So how likely is it that the First Lien Group (Citibank) will come up with some new financing to buy this out of bankruptcy BEFORE the lawsuit progresses much further? IMO, the liklihood is very very high. They do NOT want to explain to their shareholders that they lost 800 million on a fraudulent conveyance transaction which could have been prevented by refinancing at no cost to them. In fact the refinancing could be done so it makes a profit, albeit a small one.
And finally, how much do the Greeks that own 67% of this company want for their company or a part of their company? The company will most certaintly make over half a billion dollars a year after this mess is over. IMO, they should hold on to all their equity and not dilute at all. They are now clearly in the drivers seat with this break.
Daffy Duff
Maybe the 6-5 date projection will hold up and they will release something this Thursday. I'll believe it when I see it.
I've been watching the strange td chart info for tous.pk the last few days and according to my weak theory, there are an unusually number of large orders being placed that don't get filled.
On Thursday, there were 10 orders for over a million shares each. There were no takers at the price they were wanting and I don't know who these investors were. Were they the remaining shorts wanting to cover? New investors? Or people getting tired of waiting and wanting out? New short sellers?
My point is that with such huge orders for this stock, things could really pop quickly. Notice I'm not saying whether the move will be up or down. I honestly don't know. I wish it to be up but I'm braced for a short temporary move down.
thanks for the update i guess maybe they're accounting or working on something behind the scenes balancing out additional assets and liabilities who knows.
More confusion:
News Story
TOUSA Inc (TOUS.PK) Corporate Event Announcement Notice
Tuesday May 20, 2008 21:10:21 EDT
May 20, 2008 (Wall Street Horizon via COMTEX News Network) --
TOUSA Inc (TOUS.PK)
Expected next earnings release:
Announcement date: 5/29/2008 - After Market
Earnings Quarter: Q4
Announcement Status: Unconfirmed
==================================
But this replaced it today:
TOUSA Inc (TOUSQ.PK) Corporate Event Announcement Notice
Tuesday May 27, 2008 20:55:40 EDT
May 27, 2008 (Wall Street Horizon via COMTEX News Network) --
TOUSA Inc (TOUSQ.PK)
Expected next earnings release:
Announcement date: 6/5/2008 - After Market
Earnings Quarter: Q4
Announcement Status: Unconfirmed
(C) 2008 Wall Street Horizon, Inc. The Earnings Calendar Company(sm) All rights reserved www.WallStreetHorizon.com
Related QuotesDesc Last Change (%)
TOUSQ 0.185 0.015 (8.82%)
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10:22:00 EDT
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