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Tino Speaks !
I agree. We can eliminate the harmful toxic emissions from most vehicles ... It's only a matter of money.
Adding the cost of expensive emissions reduction equipment to an already expensive Hydrogen application is a lot like hydrogen itself.
YES ... it can be done and Yes , it works ; but it is NOT economical in the real world.
Thank you for linking a credible scientific journal, instead of 2 guys in Trucker Hats with a microphone.
WTM - Post all you want, but if you are not critical, know that I will be.
And note that LINDE is trading near their ALL TIME HIGH, and buying PLUG is a rounding error for them. Also NOTE that LINDE kept PLUG in business by supplying PLUG with hydrogen when PLUG was not able to make hydrogen or supply their customers.
Thank you Linde.
So Linde makes money, Linde makes lots of hydrogen profitably, Linde is successful.
PLUG makes a little bit of hydrogen (in comparison), PLUG isn't profitable and PLUG is trading near their ALL TIME LOWS.
Guess which stock I hold as a long and guess which stock I like to short?
WTM - CORRECTION :
I did watch the video. As soon as I saw that it was just a couple of guys with a microphone and a camera, the credibility and value went to Zero.
WTM - This is anecdotal information, and two different guys with a microphone and camera can produce the opposite show.
Instead, I watch experts like Lutz and go to important conferences where I can gather facts from the Experts like Lutz and his Boss, face to face, before I would listen to information on the internet.
WTM - Have you ever heard the phrase , "I saw it on the internet so it must be true..."?
You know that I am very critical of what gets posted, since most is Off Topic and Nonsense. I urge you to be more critical.
WTM - Did you attend the Webinar Last Week on Hydrogen ?
I remember Lutz from LINDE saying that hydrogen for vehicles and hydrogen stations were NON-Starters because of the NEGATIVE ROI.
When the Head of Technology for the Largest Hydrogen Producer in the World says Hydrogen vehicles are a No Go, I tend to believe him before I believe 2 guys with a microphone and a camera.
WTM - Here's a FUN FACT !
When you use Hydrogen in an internal combustion Engine (ICE) , it produces Harmful TOXIC Emissions !
Even GREEN HYDROGEN POLLUTES !
WTM - WOW ! This looks Really Expensive !
At a Major Hydrogen Conference this week we were told that BULK HYDROGEN costs between $15.00 and $23.00 per kg.
That is more than 4 times more than Electricity.
Is PLUG really only getting less than 50 Cents on the Dollar in the lease deal which will net them $150 million if they are lucky ?
All of that money will be gone by October 1. If they don't close on the $1.6 billion by then, we DROP below $1.00.
Mac - ALL of Linde's projects are DELAYED .
Linde's projects are delayed for Strategic reasons.
PLUG's projects are delayed because they are BROKE.
For those of you who missed it (including Plug Power) , Houston hosted the largest global gas technology conference this week.
In one city and in one venue, you could meet with every company and every decisionmaker in the gas universe. So important is this event to the industry, Pres. George W. Bush was the keynote speaker, with other major CEO's as speakers and presenters.
As with events of this kind there were hundreds of Press Releases about deals and mergers and projects, but the Hydrogen Sector was unusually quiet.
Not many big deals were announced and to the contrary, most of the Hydrogen news was about deals and projects being delayed or scuttled. Only one positive press release for the entire industry , but also many negatives.
I bring this up because you are invested in this sector, and if you did not attend this conference you did not feel the malaise and negativity surrounding Hydrogen and Fuel Cells. The real players are saying an additional 2-5 years before hydrogen makes some traction and even that will be later and smaller than last year's estimates.
"Anything with a 2030 date, should be considered 2035, or dead." said one Important Banker.
Next year's event will be September 12 -17 in Milan, Italy, and I will be attending again as always.
Every PLUG Rally Fades within Days ....
From $75 to $1.00's , PLUG is a Penny Stock, and 98.67 % of the shareholders are in the RED.
There are three Very Ugly outcomes for PLUG if there is NO DOE LOAN.
GUYS - The shorts are NOT causing PLUG's crash. .... Management is !
Have you run the numbers on the Lease deal ? PLUG isn't selling body parts ... PLUG just sold YOUR SOUL !
Shorts are NOT DUMB . They have done more analysis than you. We know PLUG is running out of money faster than they say, and do you know what that means ?
BANKRUPTCY.
Predatory Bankers will sell PLUG all kinds of deals to keep the body alive, but shareholders are the ones who will be hurt.
This new lease deal is a signal / nail in the coffin .
STEVE - I am really glad that you asked you asked : How is leasing selling body parts?
Have you seen the terms ? Have you calculated these terms and the impact they will have on PLUG's Margins, Earnings and Bottom Line ?
Steve this lease back is a terrible deal (have you noticed the share price today) and will be one of the reasons that PLUG could go BELOW $1.00 !
PLUG's margins are already (expletive) and the cost / haircut on this deal will only exacerbate the losses. Our incompetent Finance team knows PLUG is going broke and they need CASH FAST ! Forget the costs, we need the $150 million ASAP.
And we may have even created a new derivative , and we all know how good PLUG Finance is at valuing derivatives (Walmart , Amazon).
PLUG has resorted to selling organs and body parts in order to pay bills and stay alive, ... I doubt we will see the $1.6 Billion.
BAD NEWS !
Collectively, The Hydrogen Fuel Cell Sector is at NEW ALL TIME LOWS !
Hurry ! Today may be the last day that you can buy PLUG ABOVE $2.00.
CORRECTION :
Plug will NOT be supplying green hydrogen to Nikola at Tom's Station !
WTM - Wow ! Nothing to do with PLUG.
Thanks .
Steve - PLUG is having to sell body parts and organs in order to pay the bills.
Pretty Sad.
Banger - THIS IS NEGATIVE NEWS !
From another Board :
"They (PLUG) are simply selling their very own equipment to a leasing company in order to raise much-needed funds but even utilizing the full $150 million would only help them surviving another couple of weeks."
WTM - You may have to wait.
The knowledge and information I gain has less value in bulk, and is better applied in context.
You and everyone else will get all of it as I apply it in my responses on this and other boards.
As an aside, I was looking for some familiar PLUG faces, but saw none, even though PLUG has offices in Houston.
This is a 3 Day event, so I certainly didn't see everyone. Hopefully I can today.
Yesterday I posted :
FED Cut .25% = $2.20
FED Cut .50% = $2.25
It looks like the reaction to the FED hits PLUG today.
WTM - Really Old News Rehashed.
PLUG has already delivered the equipment and booked the revenue for this project. We told this months ago.
And the study is just that. An engineering study, no PLUG equipment involved. Why does a study worth less than $100K earn a Press Release unless the company is really desperate to keep the share price above $2.00/share. A condition for getting a Loan ?
Lots more Nothing Burger PR's for some reason.
WTM - Please let me add :
- Liquide Hydrogen plants are more complex and more expensive . Cryogenics take more time and money as we found out in Georgia.
- High Pressure Hydrogen Storage is more dangerous 700-900+ BAR (10,000+ PSI)
- Linde Invented the Liquefication Process for Hydrogen
- In 2023 most new Hydrogen production projects were put on hold except in Asia
- Hydrogen for passenger vehicles and retail Hydrogen stations don't make sense. Negative ROI
WOW . Interest Rate Cuts on the high end of the range, and Another Mega - Super - Duper Symposium ...
And Plug is up 1 Cent.
WTM - EVERYONE was flogging Green Hydrogen.
That's why you / PLUG needs to go to these events occasionally, because the promotional materials are never perfect.
Everyone you needed to see could meet you face to face. I saw every hydrogen producer and major consumer on the planet (even NASA, we were in Houston after all).
You sat in on a Webcast today with Lutz Decker ... I had a One-on-One with Lutz's BOSS ! Whereas Lutz danced around many questions especially costs and prices, his boss told me in great detail what grey vs green plants cost (CAPEX), OPEX, Bulk and retail. Linde, Air Products, Air Liquide and even NEL, Kogas and Sinopec and Sabic were open about pricing and strategies. All of my questions were addressed.
For instance, I now know how the non-US companies are already taking advantage of the 45v rules in the US.
Banger - Today's event was an excellent way to meet everyone in the Hydrogen space at one time and in one place ... Except One. Plug.
Who chose to hide out in their one-horse, backwater.
I wonder how many Asians were in Houston who are skipping the trip to Latham?
BTW - Yes, I will be attending this year's symposium if only to see the new facility.
WTM - There is an entire section on Hydrogen, with plenty of exhibitors and presenters.
PLUG has made a BIG Splash in the past, but they are invisible this year.
Banger - Everyone is mentioning PLUG's scarce resources ($$$$) , with rampant speculation on if PLUG will even exist next year.
I am at Gastech in Houston this week. The largest industrial gas conference on the Planet.
Everyone is here except for PLUG Power.
No PLUG.
No Joule
No Frame.
Not a good signal to the Global Market.
The rumor mill is active and very negative about PLUG.
From another PLUG board :
Will Plug survive to benefit from the transition from fossil fuels to hydrogen? Marsh has steered the company to a financial precipice that demands he continue to raise cash by selling ever larger quantities of stock in order to fund operations, as profitability remains far out of reach.
WTM - Why is this worth posting again ? Has anything changed ?
Any new insights ?
mik - Short interest has certainly been rising and that could be the reason for the rate increase for borrowing shares.
It could also be because the value of the shares has increased which is another key factor in pricing options.
Is anyone else here in Houston this week for Gastech , the world conference on Industrial gasses ?
Pretty busy.
Banger - Nothing to do with PLUG.
WTM - There is also some serious downside risk !
If the DOE Loan doesn't happen, PLUG will FALL BELOW $1.00.
If 45v doesn't change materially, this could buffer or even negate any bump.
But you will get a rate cut at some point,
Good luck
WTM - Rate cuts, Loan , 45v, will all give PLUG a positive bump, but not enough to reverse the trend.
So if you want some quick $$$, that's a play, but NOT a long-term investment.
Until PLUG FIRES Management or can demonstrate that they know how to make money, I don't see any signal that says, "BUY" as an investment.
I don't see short-lived bumps as Buys.
WTM - Of course.
I don't like PLUG as a company or as an investment (long) , but if I see a clear "BUY" opportunity, you know that I will post it here.
I don't think another Symposium will be a buy signal, that card has already been played. Nor will an interest rate cut.
Andy Marsh leaving would be a clear BUY signal.....
mik - Yes ! I do ! I remember cheering on PLUG as soon as they announced the Super-Mega- Symposium.
I went long and held on until Andy Marsh DUMPED his shares, but I was always looking for the exit/sell signal.
mik - Do you remember me saying, "If the CEO is DUMPING, So should you . ? " Andy Dumping was my SELL Signal.
That was the second time PLUG saw $65. Once on the way up, and once on the way down.
After selling all of my PLUG shares in the $50's, I didn't short PLUG again until the Accounting Debacle.
mik- I agree ! Now we just need to wait as WTM suggests.
WTM - NIKOLA is waiting on a DOE Loan , Too?
What is it with all of these struggling Fuel Cell companies trading at multi-year LOWS and looking for Government handouts ?
Will PLUG even survive if they don't get the DOE Money ?
Studer - Don't be putting words into Mr. Decker's mouth.
Linde is PLUG's primary supplier of grey hydrogen, but PLUG's contribution to LINDE's bottom line is a rounding error.
Linde doesn't need a DOE Loan to expand their hydrogen business or to keep their lights on. Linde has been profitable for more than a Century.
In fact, if there was no hydrogen business, Linde would still be profitable !
Perhaps this explains why PLUG is near Multi-Year LOWS and LINDE is near ALL TIME HIGHS !
What is the difference between Solyndra and PLUG ?
Solyndra actually got the money.