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Share price doesn't want to fall any further.
We are approaching the point of no return.
I anticipate a PR sometime this month detailing either a declaration of total bankruptcy or continued operations.
It's almost 2 months since the bad news... plenty of time for whoever is left to figure out something new to tell us.
Stochastics are beginning to look interesting again...
Is there any documentation of a sale actually happening though?
Re: I just find it odd that no one brought it up here as a means to escape debt
Posted by: Rawnoc Date: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:10:48 AM
In reply to: ambulance_blues who wrote msg# 2949 Post # of 7933
I'd say yes, take Rawnoc's word over boilerplate language taken out of a filing. Not to mention the boilerplate language you copied and pasted that was there before the 65% growth in sales that wasn't supposed to happen, lol, it doesn't say that they need a LOC. There's the real estate for sale that she seemed to strongly indicate in the presentation with red chip will probably be sold during this quarter.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=32773497
You might try to find it via FRMO
Lester J. Tanner SEC/DIR
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=793687&capId=395495&previousCapId=395495&previousTitle=FRMO%20CORP
LESTER J TANNER, (Zip code: 10016)
http://www.city-data.com/elec2/94/elec-NEW-YORK-NY-94-part10.html
Does anyone have an email contact for Lester J Tanner?
Thanks,
I had not thought about it, since the property was actually bringing in revenue back then
Yes I read it today when I found that piece of information.
I just find it odd that no one brought it up here as a means to escape debt
Never heard of this property? Have you read the 10-Q that was filed before they went to the pinks?
http://secfilings.nasdaq.com/filingFrameset.asp?FileName=0001354488%2D08%2D001906%2Etxt&FilePath=%5C2008%5C11%5C14%5C&CoName=VERTICAL+BRANDING%2C+INC%2E&FormType=10%2DQ&RcvdDate=11%2F14%2F2008&pdf=
2. Office Building
The Company owns a forty-nine (49%) percent interest in Gateway Granby, LLC. (“Gateway”), a Connecticut limited liability company, which owns and operates a two-story office building, located at 2 Gateway Boulevard in East Granby, Connecticut (the “East Granby Property”). The office building contains approximately 52,000 square feet of rentable space and is located on 7.7 developable acres. The East Granby Property is owned subject to a non-recourse first mortgage held by TD Banknorth, N.A. and a second mortgage held by California Mortgage & Realty, Inc. Under the first and second mortgages, the outstanding principal balance at September 30, 2008 was approximately $1,901,000 and $1,100,000, respectively. The Company has guaranteed repayment of the second mortgage.
In November 2005, the Company entered into an irrevocable proxy and agreement with certain members of the limited liability company who are stockholders of VBI, which agreement gives the Company voting and operational control of the limited liability company so long as the Company maintains its ownership interest in the limited liability company. Due to such voting control, Granby is consolidated with VBI, and the minority voting interests are recorded separately.
Office Building assets consist of the following (in thousands):
September 30,
December 31,
2008
2007
(Unaudited)
Building
$
3,647
$
3,647
Building improvements
273
273
Land
334
334
Land improvements
63
63
Equipment
74
59
4,391
4,376
Accumulated depreciation
(538
)
(389
)
Office building, net
$
3,853
$
3,987
Depreciation expense of the East Granby property for the nine months ended September 30, 2008 and 2007 was approximately $149,000 and $142,000, respectively. Depreciation expense of the East Granby property for the three months ended September 30, 2008 and 2007 was approximately $47,000 for both periods.
Any and all property should be on the table as far as a way to cover the debt to Gottbetter
I had never heard of this major property that VBI apparently owns 49% of and am curious what other major property there is that I had never heard of.
They've had that property for a long time. Why?
Anyone know anything about this?
"VBI owns a 49% interest in Gateway Granby, LLC that owns and operates an office building in East Granby, Connecticut. The office building contains approximately 52,000 square feet of rentable space and is located on 7.7 developable acres. The Company has entered into an agreement whereby it has voting and operational control of Gateway Granby, LLC. VBI rents approximately 62% of the available office space to principal tenants under multi-year leases. The remaining 38% of the East Granby Property’s rentable space was vacant as of April 9, 2007. This rentable space has been subdivided into four smaller areas, which as of April 9, 2007, was available for leasing."
You got it.
Paid my credit card bill twice this month. Went to a credit balance.
Have you lost it?
You posted this two days ago lol
Local BB&B had large displays of ALL products.
I asked if they had Tool Bandit-It. They said no. I told them it was from the same company with StaemBuddy, EZFOLD, Cozy, etc, etc.
They stated they were, "sure we will be getting it because we are selling a "ton" of those products".
Also, in the CVS flyer in the Sunday paper, SteamBuddy was featured.
The BB&B one had both SteamBuddy and My Place.
Somebody's gotta do it... and we all know VBI isn't incapable of keeping shareholders informed in a timely manner.
Guys, thanks for the updates...I'm one of those stuck now here at the bottom of this well.....unbelievable turn of events for something that looked nearly bullet proof.
zagdad
Additionally... forgot to mention that Nancy said she is
"leaving Mr. Lipp alone to try and work out a plan for VBI"
So it would seem that in some way, despite him insisting that he is not the new CEO (back in oct he said this), that he is in charge.
Sent it to you...
Also... I think there is something odd about what is going on with this company.
At one point in time we knew the following about who owned what share wise:
Nancy: 4,643,543
Jeffrey: 3,005,294
Assuming Mr. Edell continued to sell until he was completely out of this stock, he should have zero shares by now. Leaving Nancy with, what would seem like the most shares.
Since she recently mentioned she is the second largest shareholder, I wonder how this could have happened. One of two ways?
1. She sold the majority of her position
2. Someone else bought +4.6 million shares while this thing was tanking at huge volume
3. Combination of 1 and 2 ideas
Since Nancy is still the second largest shareholder, I'd be more inclined to believe #2 and #2 alone. A lot of us left have a "nothing else to lose" philosophy at this low of a price, Nancy might have felt the same as it started to plummet. Someone for some reason has assumed the role of largest shareholder. Although the dollar amount is low to acquire that many shares, around 30k to 35k, it is still a serious investment for such a very high risk company.
Someone knows something, I just wish I knew who that someone was.
Is there any possible way to get a current up to date list of shareholders for this stock that anyone can think of? Who holds that sort of information? The SEC definitely isn't up to date...
I don't have PM either.
Here is email:
henrie0710@hotmail.com
No, I cannot. As I've mentioned several times on this site, I do not have PM capability because I am not registered in any way.
You may PM me your email address and I can send it to you via that.
via email, not her VBI email though, her personal email
I won't post it on a forum since I've upset people in the past by doing that, sorry.
I got it via this forum though so if you dig you can probably find it.
We don't know what % of sales VBI gets and we also don't even know if VBI even gets royalties anymore after what we learned about P2F buying out all license agreements
How did you contact her?
Please let me know.
Well, I checked the BB&B yesterday. Large disply of all VBDG products. My Place, Stream Buddy, Cozy, etc., etc.,
I asked manager if they had Tool Band-It and he said, no.
I told him it was the same company as My Place, EZfold, etc. He replied, "I am sure we will be getting it because we a are selling a ton of those product".
So where is the problem? Products are selling. I will check other stores soon.
VBDG just been cut out somehow?
Um... whatever you say.... lol
Plus, she can't be trusted!
Nancy has informed me that she is currently the second largest shareholder of the company.
Hard to distinguish what exactly that means, as there is no reliable source for who owns how many shares.
Of course I would buy more,
it's ridiculously cheap... meaning for just a few hundred bucks I can double my position and halve my break even point... putting me in a position to get out in case a random bounce occurs in the sub penny range.
You would buy more??????????
Thanks for the address.
Someone was kind enough to PM me the new location of VBI. They wish to remain anonymous.
The iBox has been updated with their new address at:
12100 Wilshire Blvd.
8th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90025
Apparently no additional information is needed mailing-wise other than 8th floor (i.e. no suite number)
Here is some additional information on that space:
http://www.abetteroffice.com/office-rental-los-angeles-ca-wilshire-blvd/
I know I have. I would buy more too but my money is tied up elsewhere.
P.S. I wish I knew your full opinion on this thing. You seem more confident than anyone else here.
You better average down while it's cheap.
In response/comment on what was stated, of course only IMO.
"in case VBI had financial troubles". IMO - MANAGEMENT HAD MAJOR ISSUES FOR A LONG TIME. DECISION-MAKERS WHO ONLY THINK HOW THEY CAN MAKE MONEY FOR THEMSELVES MAKE POOR DECISIONS FOR A COMPANY.I read that to mean P2F went around VBI and has it now. No payments now or ever to VBDG. Went directly to the source. This was my problem from the beginning. P2F going directly to all the suppliers. They had no need for VBDG. IMO, that's exacly what's happening.
They did advertise, Billy Mays, was playing all over before the deal with the Tool Band-It infomericial.
P2F had Tool Band-It in it's warehouse in August.
I hope to goodness there is some recovery in VBDG. I am just leary. IMO - RECOVERY? ARE YOU SERIOUS? CEO SUCCESSFULLY TOOK A COMPANY WITH POTENTIAL AND POINTED IT TO THE GRAVE. AND I SAY CEO BECAUSE THE JOB OF A CEO IS TO GUIDE A COMPANY. AND WE ALL KNOW SHE JUMPED SHIP BEFORE IT SUNK.
Did you know that Mark Miller's, Executive VP at P2F, prior job was Operations Consultant at VBDG? IMO - OF COURSE. HE CAME ON BOARD WHEN YET ANOTHER VP OF OPS WAS FIRED. SEEMS TO ME THERE WAS A LOT OF FIRING GOING ON.
Prior to that he had a long-term relationship with Nancy. Partner at one time in other ventures. They go way back. IMO - TRUE. OF COURSE. PROBABLY HARD TO FIND NEW COMPETENT TALENT WHO WOULD WORK UNDER HER CONDITIONS.
Looks to me like he became unemployed at some point. Nancy took care of him as a consultant. Perhaps he is now returning the favor to her. Anyway, as bad as I hope it is untrue, I smell a rat. IMO - IT SMELLED LIKE A RAT FOR A LONG LONG TIME. ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS AND YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE ANSWERS.
Mark took VBDG to P2F, IMO, and got employment for himself. IMO - YUP. WAS THIS DEAL THE BEST FOR THE CEO'S POCKETS OR FOR THE COMPANY? Now P2F has VBDG. Nancy is being taken care of. IMO - I BELIEVE IN KARMA. AND THE LAW. Back salary converted to debt, as an example.
Who are the three employees left there? You know? IMO - ORRIN AND CHRIS AND CEO IS STILL ON THE BOARD. CAN WE SAY - ARE YOU KIDDING?
There was a consultant there in August, as well as a lawyer consultant, working on all of this. The Consultant, Paul J. Le Blanc. specialty is "Transition and Exit Planning." IMO - CONNECTION WITH CEO's HUSBAND. WHO WAS LOOKING OUT FOR THE COMPANY? Looks like he earned his keep. The extra lawyer was helping him. IMO - LOTS OF LAWYERS FOR SUCH A SMALL COMPANY.
This is what I think: P2F will wind up with VBDG in total. Nancy will wind up with all moneys available. We have had it. I'm out $60,000+.
Let me be wrong---please!!! IMO - SORRY, CAN'T SAY THAT.
AND FYI. I AM AN INVESTOR WHO FEELS TOTALLY RIPPED OFF BY THE BOARD NOT TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS. THEY SHUT THEIR EYES AND LET THE CEO RUN RAMPANT FOR A LONG TIME. WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT? I THOUGHT A BOARD WAS SUPPOSED TO LOOK OUT FOR INVESTORS. LAW SUIT ANYONE?
IMO IMO IMO IMO
someone threw $500 at it today. Maybe they hope some of it sticks?
VERTICAL BRANDING INC
Price: 0.0039 +0.0014 +56.00%
Bid: 0.003 [+]
Ask: 0.004
Open: 0.0025
Volume: 125,000
I believe everything minus the inside job business. I think P2F saw an opportunity and went for it. I think VBI saw a very different opportunity (escape from debt) and went for it. Things fell apart, Nancy is now a director with Chris in charge for the time being. No communication with shareholders, times are dire indeed.
I would definitely be looking at the down side of things more if I was as largely invested in this as you, that's a whopper of a position. In fact if I had that large of a position I'd be calling the office regularly asking for updates instead of shooting out emails and hoping for a response.
They're renting my shed now....
You are correct. Tool Band-It was not sold in the original contract.
"in case VBI had financial troubles". I read that to mean P2F went around VBI and has it now. No payments now or ever to VBDG. Went directly to the source. This was my problem from the beginning. P2F going directly to all the suppliers. They had no need for VBDG. IMO, that's exacly what's happening.
They did advertise, Billy Mays, was playing all over before the deal with the Tool Band-It infomericial.
P2F had Tool Band-It in it's warehouse in August.
I hope to goodness there is some recovery in VBDG. I am just leary.
Did you know that Mark Miller's, Executive VP at P2F, prior job was Operations Consultant at VBDG?
Prior to that he had a long-term relationship with Nancy. Partner at one time in other ventures. They go way back.
Looks to me like he became unemployed at some point. Nancy took care of him as a consultant. Perhaps he is now returning the favor to her.
Anyway, as bad as I hope it is untrue, I smell a rat.
Mark took VBDG to P2F, IMO, and got employment for himself. Now P2F has VBDG. Nancy is being taken care of. Back salary converted to debt, as an example.
Who are the three employees left there? You know?
There was a consultant there in August, as well as a lawyer consultant, working on all of this. The Consultant, Paul J. Le Blanc. specialty is "Transition and Exit Planning." Looks like he earned his keep. The extra lawyer was helping him.
This is what I think: P2F will wind up with VBDG in total. Nancy will wind up with all moneys available. We have had it. I'm out $60,000+.
Let me be wrong---please!!!
I own 300,000 shares and I'm down a $1,000
Very mysterious haha.
Care to share anything about yourself? Do you own this stock? Know any important information you'd like to share?
The original contract has no language to support the idea that they sold the Tool Band-it, in it's entirety to P2F right off the bat. If it does, please point out it's specific location.
Also, Mr. Freede only recently informed me that they made arrangements to secure the Tool Band-it license in case VBI had financial troubles.
Since this information is second hand and not in the form of a press release who knows what kind of information is missing. Perhaps Mr. Freede meant that they bought the rights to sell directly to consumers, in addition to the original deal to sell to retailers only, and continue to pay royalties to VBI. Mr. Freede has attorneys that make sure to word things precisely, and he himself cannot speak of the specific details even if he knows them.
And yes, VBI had the Tool Band-it before the deal, but they had no way to manufacture it in mass, or advertise it. All advertising for it is recent and so is the 700,000 units in inventory courtesy of P2F. It's a whole different ball game right now than it was just a few months ago.
I think we just differ on the overall view of this company. I am saying there really isn't enough information quite yet to justify major panicking, but admitting the future does look bleak. I really don't need the extra few hundred bucks by selling right now and see a much greater potential upside to this stock.
If I can conjure some bright side to this situation I will attempt to do so. As always any negative views are welcome but I just wanted to be clear on my stance.
P.S. This board is boring with all the regulars missing, thanks for the convo.
They, VBDG, did have Tool Band-It before the deal.
I read the deal different. P2F bought Toll Band-It lock stock and barrel. No further funds to VBDG.
I have a lot more shares than you and at $.28.
IMO a bad economy paired with bad timing caused the "failure to pay off debt"
Back when they made the deal with P2F, they didn't have the Tool Band-it, and retail sales were terrible according to economic data. P2F probably profited very little back then as well. I would have hoped that VBI sold the rights to Tool Band-it recently to include continued royalties, since Mr. Freede told me they have 700,000 units ready to launch for this season.
If that is the case, or they sold it for some very high price, then you can be sure that this christmas season will be profitable for VBI or P2F or both. And depending on the deal, it may be VBI's last profitable quarter for a very long time if ever, and may just be enough to pay off any debt and then to close up shop.
But like I said in the iBox its all speculation.
I'm still in this btw, 100,000 shares at $0.0444
On Nov 11/02/09, Mike Shurm informed me that the reason he had been having recent difficulties contacting VBI is because "They moved offices. Everything is back up and running."
So I would have to assume yes, they moved to a different office. I would hope that they did since they downsized to 3 people. A smaller office would reflect their smaller workforce.
Then they moved twice.
On 8/24/09, they were moving in 15250 Ventura Blvd.,Sherman Oaks, Ca. from 16000 Ventura Blvd., Encino, Ca.
The Sherman Oaks location is much smaller than the Encino location.
You are saying they then moved to an even smaller one?
My last email from Orrin was on 9/8/09. Will try again.
It appears all the "deals" are for P2F.
That is their old address. They have recently moved into a new office and I haven't been able to find out where that is.
Have you had recent contact with Mr. Halper? I have emailed everyone listed on their website with no responses.
Yes it appears to be dismal but who knows what sort of details are surrounding the new deals going on between VBI and P2F...
Yeah. The infomercial.
Sorry to say but I am still in.
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Overview
Vertical Branding sells As Seen On TV products directly to consumers via television advertising, and to distributors via their current partner P2F Holdings.
Products
Extreme Beam Flashlight, Hercules Hook, MyPlace Cozy, Steam Buddy, Tool Band-it, Zorbeez Streak-Freez
Relationship with P2F Holdings
Per contractual agreement [sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1125532/000135448809000619/vertical8k.htm], Vertical Branding allows P2F Holdings to distribute their As Seen On TV products to big box retailers in exchange for royalties. These retailers include Bed Bath & Beyond, Macy's, Staples, CVS, Shopko, Bestbuy, Walmart, TrueValue, Bealls, and Anna's Linens. P2F Holdings has assigned Milen, a new division, to manage operations as a result of this agreement.
Websites
Vertical Branding: www.verticalbranding.com
P2F Holdings: www.p2fholdings.com
Milen: www.milenasseenontv.com
Contact Information
Vertical Branding, Inc.
12100 Wilshire Blvd
8th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90025
Phone: 310.806.9297 [Chris Lipp]
Fax: 818.926.4885
Email: info@verticalbranding.com
Pressing Issues
On October 14th Vertical Branding filed a Form 8-K [sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1125532/000111650209001567/vert_8k.htm], stating that despite the contract with P2F Holdings, attempts to restructure their debt have failed. As a result, the company's Board is presently reviewing the company's options for reorganization, recapitalization or other methods of deriving value from the company's assets to satisfy the company's liabilities. Because of its working capital shortage, the company has substantially reduced operating expenses by laying off all but three employees and by suspending various operations. In addition to this news, Nancy Duitch resigned as CEO and Alan Edrick has resigned as Board Director. No replacement CEO has been named at this point.
There are currently 4 foreseen paths for the company
1. As a result of weak sales, poor management, and current debt liabilities, Vertical Branding will be brought to bankruptcy court by Gottbetter Capital Master Ltd., subsequently resulting in a filing of Chapter 11 and a total loss for all shareholders.
2. As a result of weak sales, poor management, and current debt liabilities, Gottbetter Capital Master Ltd. will hold the option to purchase 3.615M shares of common stock at the exercise price of $0.025 in order to settle the debted amount of $2.26M.
The previous 2 scenarios are considered the most likely of the 4. Unless something changes [see path 3 & 4] it can be assumed that Gottbetter Capital Master Ltd. will review these two options at or around December 15th, 2009, and decide which
is in their best interest for recovering the debted amount of $2.26M.
3. As a result of increased sales, reorganized management, and restructured debt payments, Vertical Branding will provide a corporate update stating their increased growth, financial security, and etc., subsequently resulting in a surge in the price of
common stock due to restored investor confidence and buying.
4. As a result of weak sales, poor management, and current debt liabilities, Vertical Branding will be purchased outright by an outside entity at a discounted price per share.
The previous 2 scenarios are considered the least likely of the 4 and are completely unsubstantiated by hard facts.
Argument supporting survival scenario [highly speculative]
Vertical Branding is a very small corporation, especially in light of the announcement that only three employees continue to work from this point forward. Small corporations are able to continue operations even in the most dire of times. This hibernative
state is generally referred to as survival mode. The company should be able to make debt payments fairly easily just by running this skeleton crew. While this does not translate to growth, and could even translate into staleness, it does drastically
reduce the chances of bankruptcy. Since Vertical Branding is now, primarily, a research / design / promotion company, the need for a large office space has dwindled. They may even take up the same roof as Milen, of P2F Holdings, in order to
consolidate efforts and costs. Additionally, P2F's vested interest in Vertical Branding is immense. They are, after all, the reason that P2F is able to stock the shelves of hundreds of big box realtors and keep a majority of the profits. This parasitic
relationship may prove fruitful for Vertical Branding in ways yet to be realized.
Moreover, via direct email correspondence with Milen, it has been learned that Vertical Branding's newest product, [as well as Billy Mays' last pitch for Vertical Branding], the Tool Band-it, will soon be advertised on television in a substantial manner in
anticipation of the holiday season. The Tool Band-it was featured on the Discovery Channel who in turn forecast up to $700,000 in sales per week. A link to this video can be found as follows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGIGX-68Rwg [Tool Band-it specific information begins at 2:25]
Update
The following information has been dug up via some investigating
1. "P2F is negotiating a price to buy out all of their license agreements from VBI." [source is Mike Shurm, creator of the Tool Band-it, via contact with VBI]
2. P2F currently has 400,000 Tool Band-it units in their warehouse, as well as several hundred thousand "on water and order", current price for distributors/retailers is $12.50 [source is Michael Freede, President of P2F]
3. P2F has bought out the license agreement already for the Tool Band-it, "so we could control it if we were to spend the money and make the commitment while they were in financial trouble" [source is Michael Freede, President of P2F]
4. P2F has started a 60 day national television commercial campaign, priced at $500,000, for the Tool Band-it [source is Michael Freede, President of P2F]
The following questions remain
1. When is VBI planning on informing shareholders of this vital information?
2. What are the details of the sale of the license agreements? [flat fee, continued royalties for both direct sales and retail/distributor sales, etc.]
Please Note: some portions of the information found in this iBox are speculative in nature. Please follow your own due diligence and make decisions based only on your own deductions. Board moderator and assistants are in no way responsible for losses due to trading based on the aforementioned information.
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