[Sendme]

Hi acrazjo, noticed that you haven't posted anywhere in a while. Hope you are doing well. Take care. Hope to see you back on the boards some day.

[MCA]

What did this finally settle out for? tx

[joezapp]

I know of no other reason other than the 2 I already gave. The fact that it was closing would have had no affect to the indicative value.

[Toofuzzy]

Hi Joe

I didn't own it and don't own it now so it really doesn't matter, at least to me but before the crash XIV and SVXY tracked pretty closely but XIV was slightly higher. Now it is about half the price but yesterday at least they moved the same percentage.

So just curious if there is any reason OTHER than that it is going to stop trading.

Toofuzzy

[joezapp]

Closing indicative value $5.99; we'll get it next week.

[joezapp]

Good run, but didn't see the cliff through the dense fog.

[joezapp]

Too Fuzzy, what do you mean by "anything"?

[Toofuzzy]

Joezapp

I don't think that is the real answer.

I wonder if there is anything OTHER THAN the suspension of trading though.

Toofuzzy

[FreezeThese]

Was a good run XIV ... die in peace

[kingsransome]

a few days after todays close,if u hold,the valuation will be more then $6,,maybe like $30 to $50,myop

[joezapp]

Quick answer is that they are similar but not identical. Most notably, one is an ETF, and one is an ETN.

[Talc Moan]

NEW YORK, Feb. 14, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Credit Suisse AG ("Credit Suisse") announced today that The Nasdaq Stock Market ("Nasdaq") intends to suspend trading of Velocity Shares™ Daily Inverse VIX Short Term ETNs ("XIV") following the market close on February 15, 2018 and institute delisting proceedings.

[Talc Moan]

XIV Has been officially Suspended per CS pr..

[Toofuzzy]

XIV was always above SVXY in till the crash. Now it is half the price. Why?

Toofuzzy

[reflections311]

i thought they may run this up to 8-10 before its done.still may really dont know.it is holding pretty good today.hopefully we see a pop the rest of the week.

[tmorr55]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-wall-streets-fear-gauge-is-being-rigged-according-to-one-whistleblower-2018-02-13

[Braden09]

VIX rigged "Proof"

Where is the Sec when there is clear evidence this whole market is rigged against the ordinary investor

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-25/another-rigged-market-scientific-study-finds-systemic-vix-auction-manipulation

[MOkid]

Ohhhh...yeah, if I had been on the XIV side I would have made money today...but, I was on the TVIX side...

[MOkid]

yeah, I didn't say I was good at this..but, at least I didn't lose any money today.

[joezapp]

A whole $12.57, huh? On a day that the DJIA was up 410 points? Well, uh, nice job! You can now buy a pizza!!

[MOkid]

Yeah, I was too afraid for two days..finally bought in but using my own money...never on margin!! Today I stuck my toe in...too hot for me..made a total of 12.57 after commissions but now waiting for the next lows...

[TheAnnointedOne]

Saw TVIX hit a low of $7 and didn’t bury in, ran to $15 an hour later. Was going to put 7K in it. Really scary though, wasn’t brave enough lol.

[GLMRF]

It will stop to exist on 2/20. Read the news

[MOkid]

Went with tvix instead...have made a little money...kinda scary though!!

[FreezeThese]

Fidelity banning purchases of SVXY oh boy

[blackcloud_trading]

haha, no sorry. This isn't going back to 50, only a few trading days left for this thing, its done. However with that being said, it doesn't make sense to sell here, because it will be valued fairly close to these levels at the end anyway. So if EVERYONE stops selling, we may see the pps rise a little

[reflections311]

think we may go above 6 today.

[FreezeThese]

Lol

[kingsransome]

back to $50+ any day,myop $$$$

[TheAnnointedOne]

Looks like last day for trading this is 2/20 per Credit Suise.

[MaineMan5]

There is already one in Yahoo:

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/xiv/?p=xiv

[kingsransome]

naahhh,,mrkts filling gaps,,finding level ground,was run up for months,,nxt week will tell stronger viem,,myop,relax

[FreezeThese]

Pull the plug already ... I wanna hear about lawsuits

[Toofuzzy]

AND GM went bankrupt also a few years ago.

Even if I did buy 100 shares of SVXY yesterday.

Toofuzzy

[Toofuzzy]

Mokid

If you are still hell bent on buying even after this look At SVXY or ZIV

TOOFUZZY

[joezapp]

Exactly, ogflee1. They are meant to go to zero. The prospectus says that they are not meant to be held to maturity, as they are meant to go to zero and zero should be expected. CS borrows investors money, as these are debt instruments. They do not expect to have to pay it back. The price appreciation over time gave the appearance that they were something that we found out the hard way they are not.

[ogflee1]

agreed. volatility was being artificially suppressed. it was a manufactured sense of calm and stabiity to get the markets to where we are now. looking at last years market gains you can see basically a straight line upwards, an almost perfect 45 degree angle. only Bernie Maddoff's performance chart was more pristine.

take a look at TVIX or UVXY long term, jr inverses of XIV and SVXY. from ~200K to 4.66 if held in your acct. XIV started at about where it was before it collapsed to now twice. Prospectus essentially states that you can expect them to go to zero.

trade them if you like the thrill, do not own them

[Talc Moan]

Futures down 120+++ How many people are on the edge of their seat lol.

What a Wild Wild West all of a sudden.

Good Luck everyone.

[joezapp]

eric, your comparing instruments meant to be traded short-term to actual companies. These are not buy-and-hold instruments! Your duped into thinking that they are because they worked until they didn't. They also went up during historically low volatility. We've learned that these can and will lose a large percent of their value in an instant. You need to re-evaluate what you want in your portfolio, and for how long.

[eric4x]

I believe SVXY will come back soon enough.*

If it increases by ten times in two years, is THAT good enough?*

I got a sarcastic "Thanks pal!" from a mysterious admirer. Well, I hope no one is blaming me for their losses.*

Since SVXY did not exist in the last big downturn, it's kind of hard to say for sure.*

To the extent the VIX has anything to do with it, we know THAT will go back. This alone doesn't restore SVXY to its previous level, but it would go up quite a bit.*

Someone said that if you held stock in General Motors after the 1929 crash, you would have come out all right. But if you held stock in Stutz Bearcat, it would never have come back.*

I checked, and I can't find any information about the Stutz Motor company in relation to stock prices. But the principle still holds with other examples.*

XIV is like Stutz Bearcat. The question is whether SVXY is like General Motors.*

[ogflee1]

here's a good explanation of this instrument:

A White Swan Happens https://seekingalpha.com/article/4143963?source=ansh $XIV, $CS, $SVXY, $TVIX

[joezapp]

eric and Newtrader: You really haven't figured this game out yet. IF SVXY gets back to it's prior levels, that would take YEARS to occur. The SVXY had a total reset. Additionally, another day like Monday at any point in the future will take it down exponentially again...likely to $1-$2. This is not an instrument to hold long-term. You need to get off this game when looking for long-term gains and find something that doesn't carry the downside risk. It took years to find out, but SVXY is a short-term gamble, not a long-term investment!

[joezapp]

reflections311, it's because the indicative value was looking like it would get above 6 until the last few minutes. It will still be higher, though. This is basically like owning a call option expiring next Thursday. It has time premium that will erode. However, the underlying will likely continue upward in the near-term. That's why I still hold the option.

[reflections311]

why are they taking it down more in afterhours.

[MOkid]

Thanks for answering my question. I was thinking about it but don't see any reason to get into as I suspect everyone else is watching the indicative value just as closely. I thought there might accidently be a short squeeze I could take advantage of but looks unlikely.

[MaineMan5]

I have been in and out a few times over the past year or so, but never held for more than a couple weeks to a month, and always came out ahead.......until now. I think this will be very difficult to make much money on until the 15th, when the distribution amount is set at the indicative value. As time goes on here, I expect the share price to converge with the indicative value and track it pretty closely. That is not to say the indicative value won't go up in the next week, and it's already pretty close now, but I've resigned myself just to get back what the value is next week.

[MOkid]

May I ask..how long have you been in? How is it possible to make money on this if the indicative value is less than last share price? I have been on Velocity Shares website but unless the VIX goes way down i don't understand how this can be worth looking into. Thanks for any info.

[Newtrader7211]

Eric,

Looks like we are in the same boat. I did the same yesterday (you did however sell a little higher and buy a little lower).

See you on the SVXY board?

GL

Jim

[MaineMan5]

7 trading days counting today until Accelerated Valuation Date on which the distribution is based - unless reading the below incorrectly. It's a little confusing as they talk about Acceleration Date and Accelerated Valuation Date. The way I read it is the Indicative Value (not what the last trade is) is calculated after business on Feb 15 ($5.32 as of yesterday and is the accelerated valuation date). That amount per share then gets distributed on the 21st (acceleration date). This was from C/S directly:

"The acceleration date is expected to be February 21, 2018. The date of the delivery of the irrevocable call notice, which is expected to be February 15, 2018, will constitute the accelerated valuation date, subject to postponement due to certain events. The acceleration date for XIV is expected to be February 21, 2018, which is three business days after the accelerated valuation date. On the acceleration date, investors will receive a cash payment per ETN in an amount equal to the closing indicative value of XIV on the accelerated valuation date. The last day of trading for XIV is expected to be February 20, 2018."