To Quote or Not To Quote (iQuote)

[Bigfootbud]

Hi! Maybe $RDGL ? or $HIRU ?? 💖

[torontotrader1]

Hi, I am just returning to stocks and commodities trading after an 18 years absence and am starting from scratch. A lot has changed. I am looking a good data compay that can supply me with reliable data, historical and current, at reasonable prices for North American stock markets and possibly global. Any suggestions would be welcome together with why you feel that is a good data company. Thanks!

[bUrRpPPP!]

http://www.napierera.com/listings/query.php?radarea=4&startnewsearch=1&aid=&oid=&tem...

[garrett800ca]

test

[WTMHouston]

This has been a very good discussion. I see it developing as three potential options:

1. End of day -- open, close, high, low, volume, etc.

2. Delayed quotes like SI (and many others).

3. Real time and streaming quotes.

As to option 1, is there any (meaningful) out of pocket cost involved? (I understand that at some times any expense is a meaningful expense.)

As to all of the options, one of the things that makes this discussion difficult is we (or at least I) do not know what price tags we are talking about. Can I get delayed quotes (and even real time quotes) lots of places for free? You bet. Would I be willing to pay something to IHUB for the convenience of seeing them here? It depends on how much. Would I be willing to pay "something" for the convenience? Yes, but frankly, I do not know what the something is. Would I pay $10 a month? Not a chance. Would I cut loose of $20-$25 a year for the convenience? Probably. Would enough people do that to make it at least a break even out of pocket proposition for IHUB? I don't have any idea.

Would I be willing to pay for real time quotes on IHUB? That also depends on how much. The price stamping of posts, especially with RT prices, is an incredibly intriguing idea and would be a true value added feature.

Perhaps, someone could post how the services that provide delayed or real time quotes charge message boards for them. For example, if the delayed quotes for everything on IHUB only cost $100 a month, I suspect that you would have little trouble recouping it and making some money off of it. On the other hand, if delayed quotes cost $1,000 a month, then this entire discussion may be purely academic.

Even if quotes are economically viable, someone made a very valid point that it still may not (at this time) be the best business decision for IHUB given the time resources that Bob would have to allocate to setting up quotes rather than developing or tweaking other things. Sometimes, it is better to do a few things very well than do a lot of things only marginally. These decisions, of course, are internal IHUB business decisions.

It is encouraging to see the openness to discussing possibilities. But, in order for this discussion to progress meaningfully, I think we need some bottom line, "here is what it would cost per person and we would need at least this many."



Troy

[Bernard Ng]

I like to see delayed quotes on IH.

When I was in RB or got directed to RB from other links with info to certain stocks, I must be looking for a trade, then I would like to see the price of the stock or % gain (even in delayed)... so when people said it's running, I can see what's going on 15 min ago without pulling up a chart.

Also, at EOD, when I'm trying to browse from thread to thread, it's useful to see how that stock did at EOD.

As a website developer, you know that for whatever reason, you add one feature (even not an useful one), you get more people to the site. That helps the bottomline of IH.

Assume if you can't offer delayed quote for free, would it be possible to make EOD quote by updating the quote box everyday? I'm sure you can somehow get the EOD quotes of every stock for free.

That's all I can think of right now, I offer delayed quotes on my website, and it contributes 60% of my pageviews... hum... of course, my delayed quote page is one of the best LOL.

signed,
Bernard

[xxrayeyes]

Right now I pay $30.00 per month for Alphatrade's data. It is Java based. You get real time streaming quotes, charts, Level 2 and news. Once I log on, I am left with a small Java menu that loads the applications. Then I open a new browser window to get here. Right now I have 3 windows open. The small Java window, a streaming portfolio, and Ihub. I can and have opened several applications at once. For instance, I open a portfolio, a chart, level 2 screen, Ihub, my broker, and another Java based news streamer from Knobias.com. All this on a Dial-up connection with no problems or slow page loads.

Disclaimer
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=135097

[NoMoDo]

id pay for pink sheet quotes today - much more if it were real time. Credit card in hand. As for nasdaq, it would be a nice convenience, but if level II shows it, I dont need it. Time stamping a price to posts would be cool tho. When researching a company, it would always help seeing the mood of the poster alongside the price of the stock.

it only gets better.

[CharleyMike]

and most have no idea how difficult that can be.

[MechanicalMethod]

All that's required to realize self is to be still.

[excel]

Bob. You said.......I don't want to be their salesman. And an uncompensated one, at that. If I offered quotes on iHub, they would be provided by iHub; not by some 3rd party we sold everyone on subscribing to.

Bob. I wouldn't expect the hub to ask people to subscribe to their service. I would think you'd pay for their service.

The ones who wanted to pay for it would get it from the hub. That is what I understood it to be.






Excel

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

Does that make sense?

Makes perfect sense and I agree.

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

And philosophically, think about the kind of poster to whom streaming, or even delayed, quotes, are important as they read and write messages.

I was nodding in agreement until I reached that part.

Traders or people to whom the prices of equities are meaningful are not "undesirable" or "inferior".

To give another example of where I found delayed quotes to be handy, I checked out a few threads on this morning. One that was brought up in a conversation on SI and a couple that I checked out of curiosity. In each instance, I was glad to see the quotes right there rather than having to fetch them from elsewhere. Not "I love this so much I'll pay good money for it" glad; but glad nonetheless. It was convenient.

[NorthWesterner]

As a grandfathered, member, I don't expect to get every new bell and whistle that comes along free, when it costs IH money. I do expect that bells and whistles that don't cost you money (such as changing the options) will come along free. But I have no expectation that you should lay out money each month for a feature and not expect me to pay my share of the cost if I want it. (But i do expect that to be an option; I would be disappointed if you said "okay now we have this feature, whether or not your turn it off you have to pay for it."

Does that make sense?

___________________________________________________
Many shall be restored that are now fallen, and many shall fall that are now in honor. Horace

[NorthWesterner]

I basically agree with you, Matt.

Would I pay for ANY quotes? Nope. I can get delayed ones from lots of sites, and real time ones from my broker if I really need them.

The likelihood is that I would turn it off. It's just a distraction.

If I need during-the-day quotes, which I rarely do, it's easy enough to open another window and toggle back and forth. Virtually everybody on the site, I'm sure, has enough computer power to have two browser windows open simultaneously.

And philosophically, think about the kind of poster to whom streaming, or even delayed, quotes, are important as they read and write messages.

Personally, I would rather see Bob's development time spent on other projects. (For example, including the thead name on the public messages in the mailbox page.)

If it's going to make the site stronger, bring in more revenue, not provide a distraction or diversion from the main purpose of the thread, and bring in good posters, then you should go for it. But personally, I have my doubts.

___________________________________________________
Many shall be restored that are now fallen, and many shall fall that are now in honor. Horace

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

get everything free related to message boards

That's pretty open-ended. I can see where some of the confusion (mine or theirs) could be.

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

Though I said this morning that I hadn't checked them out, that was never intended to be a permanent condition. <g>

I checked them out more thoroughly earlier today.

I said: and is really just a way for us to offer to sell their product for them, ostensibly in return for more traffic to our site.

You said: So you expect them to offer it for free? Don't understand your reasoning there.

Where'd I say anything about them offering it for free?

I don't want to be their salesman. And an uncompensated one, at that. If I offered quotes on iHub, they would be provided by iHub; not by some 3rd party we sold everyone on subscribing to.

[Mattu]

No, I told everybody who was grandfathered that any kind of outside, monthly cost is additional.

That should be obvious. There's no way any site could afford to pay for that.

What I specifically spoke of was quotes. Anything else related to message boards is free to them. They got the site where it is today and they will continue to get everything free related to message boards...as it should be.

[excel]

Bob. You said......I won't consider their product because it's java-based and is really just a way for us to offer to sell their product for them, ostensibly in return for more traffic to our site.


So you expect them to offer it for free? Don't understand your reasoning there.

Like I said checking them out would give you an idea of costs involved and you'd have a beginning of information of numbers to interact with the hub sites numbers of what is feasible.

But it seems you are stuck on your idea of delayed quotes which are not enough of a feature to ask anyone to pay for.

And yes I understand that is why you created the board for delayed quotes discussion. But I think it would be to Ihubs advantage to check out all posibilities of marketing their site.

Excel

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

Well, as it currently stands, only you would see any "status" change reflected in your account, and that'd be on your "My Account" screen. That is currently the only distinction between Subscriber and Grandfathered on the site. If any further distinctions are implemented (features that're extra-cost, for example) we'd offer a steeply discounted "upgrade" path.

But all functions that check membership level currently act differently only if someone has joined since 9/4/2001 and isn't a subscriber.

[excel]

Charly. You must be talking about me as I'm the only one who brought up grandfather issue if I recall correctly.
Looks like you need to go back and read what I said. LOL!



Excel

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

I won't consider their product because it's java-based and is really just a way for us to offer to sell their product for them, ostensibly in return for more traffic to our site.

Also, anyone can get a streamer right now that'll display no matter what site they're on, if they don't mind enabling and using java.

I'll revisit the topic of possible delayed quotes on boards if/when the site and its subscribership are of sufficient size to make the cost a non-issue. As it stands now, I'd have to pay that cost from my own pocket, and I'm not inclined to do so. I already use Yahoo for my quotes and portfolio. <g>

[CharleyMike]

Some Grandfathered subscribers think their status entitles them to executive carte blanc privilege.

Others are more appreciative.

Curmudgeon that I am, I'd pay for a lifetime membership if you'll change my status to reflect it.

Then, when you develop more options, whether they cost or no, I'll feel like I've paid for them.

It always seems to amaze me when someone who receives privileges for free, take those same privileges for granted, and complain at the possibility that their status may not entitle them to unlimited refills at the coffee pot.

Bah! Humbug.

[excel]

Bob. I'm talking streamer. That is the kind I like. Instantly changing quotes.

It might be interesting for you to check out the costs involved from the company that was profiled on Matts board today just to see what is available cost wise and what amount of work would be involved.

Excel

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

Definitely the most helpful answer I've seen. Thanks, Fred.

[excel]

Bob. I don't consider delayed quotes a feature that grandfathered members should have to pay for or any other member.

Reason is they are provided for free on other message boards.

Streamer yes because I know there is cost involved.

But if you weren't going to charge the recent paying members here for streaming then I think the grandfather ones shouldn't be charged either.

You have ALREADY received there money for the service they had signed up for. That service didn't include streamer quotes.

Anything beyond the service they signed up for the costs should be paid by all.

In fact I remember we discussed that possibility a long while ago.

Excel

[Koikaze]

Bob & Matt,

For the issues I'm trading, my broker's site is the center of my world. It gives me many of the tools I need for trading, from streaming quotes to real-time charts. I come to iHub from time-to-time and check out the current activities.

However, I have other holdings besides the issues I trade. For these, delayed quotes are a convenience. Back in the "old days" (before R/B decided they could waste my time with impunity), I liked the fact that I could see how these "investments" closed. Although I don't recall it ever happening, it gave me the sense that I'd know if something startling happened with one of them. It was, in other words, a comfort. It is worth noting that the comfort level was not enough to keep me at R/B after I was introduced to iHub.

In sum, I think delayed quotes are a neat feature and I'd like to see them on iHub ... but I probably wouldn't pay extra for them.

Cost is not the issue. I would pay more for my iHub membership if the additional charge were to help iHub meet the expense of running its business. But, if you asked whether I wanted to subscribe to a delayed quote service, I would probably decline.

Fred

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

Aren't there java-based streamers out there already that anyone can get that plug in to the browser so they're available no matter what website you're on? Like from QMCI or whoever that company was that someone posted the article from?

So based on the above it probably wouldn't be worth much to me.
Maybe $3.00 a month.


Are we talking for realtime, streamer, or delayed?

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

One more thing:

OK, so what you are talking about is a delayed quote like SI has.


No, and I thought I said this earlier. But maybe I didn't.

A delayed quote like SI *and all of the rest of our competitors* have.

Doesn't seem "useless" to them, so I figured even though I also found them useless when I was a very active trader (and less so now that I'm not), there might just be a reason they're offered.

The asserted obligation (if true) to offer this free of charge to Grandfathered members no matter the cost involved really smothers this one in the cradle, though, as it were. Unless a large enough number of people are willing to (even if unwittingly) subsidize the cost for them.

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

The idea you had of grandfathered people paying like free people I disagree with. Same old story. You forgot how you got here.

I seem to remember Matt saying that wouldn't happen.

Oh well.


It was just an idea. A thought. Something to throw out there. Honestly, I don't know what the exact arrangement Matt (and therefore the site) has with Grandfathered members. Is it that they will never have to pay to avail themselves of any new feature the site ever offers, whether the feature is offered for free or as an extra-cost feature?

If we offered to pay for a subscription to the Wall Street Journal with every subscription to Investors Hub, am I obligated to buy the same WSJ subscriptions for all the Grandfathered members?

If that's the case, I can count on less than one finger the number of new features I'll roll out that have any cost involved aside from my programming time.

It seems to me that quotes could be added to subscriptions as an ala carte thing, so a person could, for example, get quotes free with a lifetime subscription or pay $1.00 per month extra on a shorter-term subscription.

But again, not if I'm obligated to give that away to Grandfathered members. I could only afford to do that if a large enough people bore the cost of it that I could give it away to everyone else. And the site's other owner has already opined that the kinds of quotes I'm talking about are "useless", so it's all, including the above, moot.

Suits me. Definitely less work for me. And I don't have to piss off as many people in the process.

[excel]

Matt. A small streamer with 5 quotes or less is fine with me.

How much I'd pay for it? Hmmmmmmm.

The problem with that is if you trade online most sites have it for free.

So it would have to be a low price in order to just be a conveinence item.

Which may make it not in Ihubs best interest.
I don't know your numbers so you will need to evaluate that..

I do know if you don't receive streaming quotes from online broker you can get them for free from Scottsdale.
Or pay $10.00 elseware.

So based on the above it probably wouldn't be worth much to me.
Maybe $3.00 a month.

Excel

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

I certainly wouldn't pay for it and I don't see anybody else being willing to pay for a delayed quote on each page. Simply because it is useless.

And that pretty much ends this discussion then.

We're not trying to compete with QCharts and the like. We can't afford to.

Personally, I'm just fine with going elsewhere for quotes, as I've always done and as I'm sure everyone currently does. And less work for me as a programmer and less risked money.

[Mattu]

OK, so what you are talking about is a delayed quote like SI has.

I certainly wouldn't pay for it and I don't see anybody else being willing to pay for a delayed quote on each page. Simply because it is useless.

Offer a real-time or streaming service and I'd most certainly pay for it. That I can use. Delayed is like giving me last year's closing prices.

RTQuotes are so easy to come by these days. If you trade (generally a pre-requisite to finding this place), then you probably get as good/better quotes than what we could offer here.

I guess it is just a convience thing. But if we had X number of folks say they'd paid for X streaming/RT service then you are talking about something real.

But the reality of anybody paying for a delayed quote because it is below a message is kind of out of reality. Or is that the way you want it to come across clearly to everybody. <g>

The answer?

Find out exactly what people want and figure out if/how we can offer it.

So let's start. Excel, Muel, what do you want and what a fair cost?

[excel]

You have room on right side of box for quotes.

Would I pay for a delayed quote? No way.

Would I consider a SMALL fee for maybe five streaming quotes? Yes.

If it ended up being delayed quotes...........
The idea you had of grandfathered people paying like free people I disagree with. Same old story. You forgot how you got here.

I seem to remember Matt saying that wouldn't happen.

Oh well.

Excel

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

Very similar to how SI, RB, and Yahoo are doing it.

At the user's option (all configurable in My Settings), delayed quotes including last trade price, bid, ask, volume, and a few others, would be included in or near the iBox of each board and each message within the board.

Each user would also get a portfolio or multiple portfolios that would display then-current (minus the 15-minute delay) totals and net changes.

Users could also include in each post a quote-stamp that would show the then-current trading price of the security being discussed. By default it would be the security specific to that board, but it could be over-ridden when the post is submitted.

Moderators could also force all messages on their boards to automatically have these quote-stamps.

The quote-stamps would only be visible to those with the appropriate membership level and who have them enabled in My Settings.

Additionally, a separate screen could be added to get a delayed quote on any security. A "Quote" options would be added to the current search box's drop-down.

Those are my thoughts so far.

If it's not something that is very useful or *everybody* that trades needs it, it's not worth the hassle.

I disagree. I don't think it's something that "everybody" must "need" to be worth it. Instead, it'll be worth it if "enough" people "want" it. Specifically, want it enough to pay for it.

If people want it, but not badly enough to pay for it, it won't be done, no matter how much anyone wants it or how many people want it. The bank won't accept wants on the deposit slips. <g>

And an increase in page views wouldn't be reason enough, no matter how much of an increase in page views.

The standard these days is real-time or streaming.

We definitely wouldn't be able to offer real-time under *any* circumstances unless a lot of things change. As it stands right now, each user would have to fill out a lengthy agreement, which we'd have to keep on file, and each individual quote would cost us money. With delayed, we don't have the agreements to deal with, and there's no per-quote cost.

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

My overall take on Quotes:

While qualifying this upfront with the acknowledgment that I'm very undecided on it and I need feedback from the community, I'm net positive on it.

I'm very strongly averse to making the site anything but a pure message board, but quotes are handy for this particular kind of message board. And if I felt they'd have a positive impact on the company's bottom line, I'd probably move forward with this immediately, as the main negatives I'm seeing are negatives to me as an old SysOp more than they are negatives to users of the site. For example, if I'm averse to additional clutter, well, it's easy enough to add a My Settings option to turn off everything quote-related.

I doubt many will really be opposed to adding quotes to the site. None more so than I, anyway. More likely, people will either want them or not care whether or not we have them.

Would we make money from offering quotes? Well, excluding development costs and the initial cost of the software library, if 3 people per month bought Lifetime Subscriptions who wouldn't have otherwise, or 24 buy monthly subscriptions, the answer is "Yes", although we have to keep in mind that we will eventually quit offering new Lifetime Subscriptions.

So I'd really like to hear from free members on this one. Would you subscribe if delayed quotes were part of the package?

[Mattu]

How exactly do you propose this work and what exactly are you offering?

If it's not something that is very useful or *everybody* that trades needs it, it's not worth the hassle.

The standard these days is real-time or streaming.

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

In opposition to quotes:

It deviates from the philosophy of "just being a message board". That is, it introduces something into the mix that is separate from posting/reading messages and is specific only to this *kind* of message board.

It costs money. As a percentage of the site's current income, it'd be a very substantial cost.

There will be a very substantial investment of development effort on my part. Everything else would take a back seat for quite some time.

There are no assurances it could recoup its cost and we don't currently even know how likely it is to do so.

It adds clutter to an interface we're trying to keep fast and simple.

We definitely wouldn't make it available to free members and probably wouldn't make it available to Grandfathered members, although if that were the case, we'd offer a substantial "upgrade" discount (as in far less than $50). This could result in alienation of some Grandfathered members who might expect (for good reason?) that all future features will be available to them, no matter what the feature or cost.

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

In favor of quotes:

It'd dramatically increase the depth of features the site offers.

Anecdotally, it seems to be very desirable.

It might increase the site's income more than enough to offset the costs.

It'd make the site "stickier".