Stock Ethics and Philosophy 101

[ANTI-BAGHOLDER]

Check out CGRA


CGrowth Capital, Inc. [$CGRA] due diligence
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=103001544

[Huggy Bear]

I am always open to critiques of any holding I own. There is always a chance you missed something.

Some seem to miss everything logical then blame everything but the reality of the situation. Classic.

[es1]

Well I have always said that a "basher" is the side to listen to. A basher has nothing really to gain by putting out the negative info.
If the PPS drops it can give them a load point but if a basher can drop the price of a stock by speaking the facts those are facts worth listening to.

Like with NBRI. I can show their dilution rate, and if you didnt buy the worst that can happen is the stock goes up, and you miss the boat, but you are not out anything.
If you listen to a pumper say you are golden and buy, you could win but the worst thing that can happen is you go broke.

I will listen to a basher any time and if I find them to be incorrect that is when I will buy.

I would rather find out a company is a scam then to be comforted by a pumper telling me we are golden.

It is truly amazing the amount of emotion that the NBRI "longs" have attached to their losses. They dont want to be reminded that they are out 99% on their investment.

Ever scan the history and do the math when someone says "i'm buying more"?
I swear Bruce and spanky both own 2 time the OS of NBRI

[Huggy Bear]

How does resorting to juvenile attacks help anyone's cause is what I am wondering, and drawing in others by attacking them?

Is this the sign of a good investment, when you come unglued about contrary opinions?

[es1]

Hey Malac, Yeah I have seen that BS on yahoo. I do not get it at all. I cant see anyone believing that crap and buying on some paid spammers word.

How many PMs have you got from RD? LOL
I swear he is 12 years old.

[DeeDog]

I think that's silly to think that companies are people, they're not, but the point...the real answer to your question is being overlooked unless it's hidden in a long post and I missed it.

The topic of a stock specific board is the company and the stock, not other posters or other topics.

A post can be negative or positive and still be on topic, although some posts are extreme in either direction.

[es1]

You are correct that they are "people" but only to a point. We had a guy in California use the carpool lane and when he went to court he told the judge he had his corporate paperwork in the passenger seat and tried to use the same law. It was laughed out of court.

I agree with the basic POS posts but those can be deleted according to the ToS.
The thing is bashers can be a pain in the rear but they are also some of the more important people to listen to.

Not because they are right, but they have to have some kind of ammo right?
If a basher says they are diluting like crazy and shows you where that is information every person needs to have. A pumper will never tell you those things.
A pumper will tell you that the company is making a fortune. That is information you should have if you bought but if you dont have it you can not be hurt by it right? Whats the worse thing that can happen? You make an unexpected gain.

So while trolling with POS posts are a waste they are easy to ignore. Same with to the moooon posts.

Other than those a bashing post is the best info you can have posted. If the basher is incorrect the proof will be posted in reply. If they are right you will only get posts saying "you are wrong" or insults.

Your best bet..... never listen to any 3 word posts and dont believe anything said by someone with a paid account unless you personally verify it.

Why would someone pay ihub to post unlimited without financial motivation?

Good or bad every post should be allowed except the trolling and personal attack on members. It would be Ihubs fault if they allowed something false to be posted when their ToS stated only the truth will be allowed. They would need teams of lawyers to be verifying every statement made on every stock.

[Cee-It]

Yeah, I realize now that what is even worse is when their incorrect and inaccurate information is consistently inaccurate and incorrect.

[es1]

Cee it, you and I butt head sometimes but I respect your point of view.
but I must disagree with this point...

There's nothing worse than a critic that posts criticism of the points made by longs and basis their criticism on incorrect and inaccurate information.

I think we have all had incorrect info at some point in our DD.
It is the most important thing people can post because it allows the flaw to be corrected publicly.
I think there are much worse things you can do.

Like telling people that something is a guaranteed win and posting nothing except hearsay and old information that can not be verified.

I get it. The history sounds better than the present and so the hope can be built on the past.

The thing is when you are in a stock and the primary posts are "News is coming" that is an obvious sign that the company is only a P&D. If they were more than a P&D they would have a trend that was not reliant on news.

"News is coming" is an admission that the stock can not increase without something to pump up the investors.

The vast majority of penny stocks are scams. That makes the majority of pumpers to be full of crap and the majority of bashers correct.

But which to listen to?

Well if everything is golden you wont need to be told that. Your stock will go up.
Bashers wont have much to say and wouldnt be listened to anyway because they are obviously wrong. Pumpers will tell you there is no problem we are golden.

If it is only going down and someone asks why... only a basher will tell you why. A pumper will tell you it is no problem we are golden.

See the difference? A pumper will only ever say the same things. A basher will either have something to say or not. A troll wont shut up no matter what

In the end which would you rather know?
We are golden,
or
the company is diluting and you dont know it?

Posting "this stock is a POS" is trolling. Being a troll is a waste. Saying something truthful that is not a good thing is not bashing. It is informing.

Saying the company has diluted 300% in 4 years is informing.

To the mooooooon is pumping. Showing an income on a 10Q is informing.

Both sides are necessary. I have been saved by bashers showing me something I missed. I have never been helped by a pumper. Their info is normally too late to act on.

JMO

[Huggy Bear]

Well google and link then please. I am busy and mobile.

[BigBake1]

Has nothing to do with expressing opinions on message boards however, talk about taking something completely out of context...lol

[dippyfloppity]

Its been a law for a few months now, I would have to google it up myself to be more recently educated on the topic. Just brought it up because I am tired of ridiculous bashing posts that claim companies are scams left uncontested and the very least should be deleted because they are personal attacks on the company.

[Huggy Bear]

Link please. I would like to review before commenting. That's a new one to me.

[dippyfloppity]

Congress has passed a law that states corporations are "legally" person entities in regards to lawsuits, claims, and such.

[Huggy Bear]

What new law? And that is ridiculous to me, to suggest that opinions or "bashes" from "bashers" should be against the law. I guess we are all just supposed to sit idly and quietly and watch the sheep shearing show, over and over and over?

[dippyfloppity]

I have a concern regarding the excessive bashing of companies.

If the new law states that corporations are people, and people on here bash numerous companies... Doesn't that make any bash or short opinion on a stock A PERSONAL ATTACK?

Thus bashing ridiculous negative commentary should be deleted unless providing factual information.

Thoughts?

Why do posts get taken down for personal attacks against other commenters on this board while there personal attacks on the companies (ruled by as people now) that are left standing, undeleted?

[DeeDog]

OK that's the Yahoo message board. I didn't recognize it because I never use it, been a long time since I even looked at it.

Nothing wrong with posting genuine DD, good or bad. It's wise to look at both sides of any issue. Rose colored glasses can cause losses, look what happened to me when I thought I was about to profit from a gold mine opening...that's was months ago and it still has yet to materialize.

On my favorite board there's no red flags to be found, no debt and no dilution, so our new basher just plays...to get even with someone who has negative posts on HIS board. He makes baseless comments to retaliate, like...

this POS is a scam
The CEO got arrested
This is headed for sub penny, etc.

All lies or otherwise baseless and without evidence or reason. Now this is unethical!! As much so as pumping up information to make people think a stock is much safer than it is.

[Huggy Bear]

I hear Yahoo has deleted most of the content. I will send you what was posted originally later.

[DeeDog]

Am I seeing this right? MS has his own tab on the NBRI Yahoo DD info packet?

[Huggy Bear]

I have two words to describe those antics there.

Extremely unwise.

[waterchaser]

The good news is nobody uses/reads the Yahoo boards anymore. They are full of spammers and personal attacks. Nothing but a bunch of losers over there.

[Huggy Bear]

Whoa Nellie. Look at the level some will stoop to in an attempt to silence genuine critique.

http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/threadview/?&bn=ee708529-9de9-3e52-8cc3-1a6235cdd351&tid=1400513470944-98eeeced-ebed-43df-802a-bcb7266740c6&tls=la%2Cd%2C3%2C3

http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/searchview/;_ylt=Ak9QmxzRT0YYORB5V8fhxYLeAohG;_ylu=X3oDMTB2aXF1bTc1BHBvcwM1OARzZWMDTWVkaWFNc2dCb2FyZHNYSFJVbHQ-;_ylg=X3oDMTBhYWM1a2sxBGxhbmcDZW4tVVM-;_ylv=3?&q=nbri&in=b&inf=&sm=&bn=ee708529-9de9-3e52-8cc3-1a6235cdd351&stb=r&sto=d&lv=e&page=3

http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/searchview/;_ylt=Ak9QmxzRT0YYORB5V8fhxYLeAohG;_ylu=X3oDMTB2aXF1bTc1BHBvcwM1OARzZWMDTWVkaWFNc2dCb2FyZHNYSFJVbHQ-;_ylg=X3oDMTBhYWM1a2sxBGxhbmcDZW4tVVM-;_ylv=3?&q=nbri&in=b&inf=&sm=&bn=ee708529-9de9-3e52-8cc3-1a6235cdd351&stb=r&sto=d&lv=e&page=3

http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/threadview/;_ylt=ApPlGj6MsNM8s71SCKdz9XveAohG;_ylu=X3oDMTB2cjZ1YzF1BHBvcwMzNwRzZWMDTWVkaWFNc2dCb2FyZHNYSFJVbHQ-;_ylg=X3oDMTBhYWM1a2sxBGxhbmcDZW4tVVM-;_ylv=3?&bn=ee708529-9de9-3e52-8cc3-1a6235cdd351&tid=1399395319736-ca06eebf-2ac9-4bbc-a0e2-cb460b41796b

[Huggy Bear]

Ok, this conversation is finished.

Taking the construction crew out to help those who got wiped out last night.

Count your blessings.

[Cee-It]

Sorry, too long and pretty boring so I did not bother to finish reading... anyhow, to summarize my feeling on the subject... when you started posting there and you seemed to be consistent in what you said compared with how you described yourself and your purpose, well I just thought maybe it was at least well intended and merely mixed together with perhaps a little much of vanity... but, my that was a long, long time ago and times have certainly changed.

[Huggy Bear]

Well hello Cee-it. RE baseball and softball. Yes, it is a great way to give back to the children just like others sacrificed for us when we were kids. Fastest way to find your ass on the bench on my teams is to whine to or even about an umpire, or get overly upset about striking out, making an error, etc. Proper attitude is of the foremost importance in the Great American Game and the game is won between your ears, and although my daughter is the smallest on the team and always will be, she is overall the most effective by having a superior knowledge of the game defensively and a vast array of weapons on offense. We utilize advanced skills for a team of ten year olds and often win via "small ball" and attention to detail on defense against teams that clearly have more inherent physical talent. It is a thinking game as well as a physical match. I have never adhered to the "you can't teach kids that yet" philosophy and I put it in action. Kids are not any less intelligent than us, in fact the converse is true, they just do not have the knowledge of the game yet, which is endless. I coach kids up. I talk to them like adults. I treat them like adults on the field. I expect them to be in the game mentally at all times and know what to do before the ball is hit to them. I expect it because I teach it, with vigor and discipline.

And my daughter has also found herself on the bench more than anyone else for talking back to me on the field. She has learned the hard way that she gets no more lenience than anyone else, in fact she gets less.

I hope your not teaching those kids to whine to the umpire when they don't get their way.

You have me all wrong. My value system is intact in both how I coach my kids and in how I choose to participate in the message board arena.

Regarding critics, it is clear you have little room for tolerance regarding my opinions. I don't care. And I also do not consider you a pump and dumper type investor/trader. Just FYI. There are a preponderance of those who do engage in these tactics for their own enrichment out there though, in case you have not noticed.

Time will tell if that company can prove out any of the speculative claims of grandeur. So far, none of the company claims have proven out, and I am highly suspicious of the company, even more so regarding the "millionaires in the making" type claims made daily on message boards. It is to abundant hyperbole that I take objection.

You made some good points about why it is difficult to prove out a placer operation. By that same argument it is equally difficult to make any claims of "gold flowing soon in abundance" and all that jazz. If proven and probable reserves cannot be established then promises of riches for all cannot be accurate either by that same measure. It is a pure gamble there, one more akin to a lotto ticket than a prudent investment based on fundamentals in my opinion. It is an exploratory stage company that first has to identify a viable target to mine at profit margin, which will probably never happen in my opinion.

There is an abundance of pump and dump language used to hype up the stock and sell shares. The company is 100% shareholder financed via discounted shares sold, either directly to the public via the S-1 or by the convertible debt financiers selling shares. A dangerous cocktail any way you shake it IMO.

There's nothing worse than a critic that posts criticism of the points made by longs and basis their criticism on incorrect and inaccurate information.

In my opinion, there is nothing worse than a supporter who makes wild speculative claims in line with the "greater fool" theorem. And it is bases, not basis. Bases as a verb is appropriate in this instance, basis as written is a noun, as in "cost basis", and ironically as some in the company we discuss had a cost basis in the sub penny range and are now trying a wash, rinse, repeat attempt of the pump and dump from years ago that made them a bunch of money at the expense of those who bought into the hype.

The greater fool theory states that the price of an object is determined not by its intrinsic value, but rather by the often irrational beliefs and expectations of market participants.[1] A price can be justified by a rational buyer under the belief that another party is willing to pay an even higher price.[2][3] Or one may rationally have the expectation that the item can be resold to a "greater fool" later.[4]

In the stock market, the greater fool theory (also called survivor investing) is the belief held by someone who makes a questionable investment, with the assumption that they will be able to sell it later to "a greater fool"; in other words, buying something not because you believe that it is worth the price, but rather because you believe that you will be able to sell it to someone else at an even higher price.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory

Time will tell which one of us is correct. I wish the company the best of extreme luck in matching up with the hyperbolic projections. I simply feel it is another penny gold stock that will separate many from their investment dollars and so far, it surely has. This is America, built on the principle of the free marketplace of ideals and values. The newer and less experienced investors/traders benefit from a full discussion from both sides of the aisle - A one way pump fest is nothing more than mass attempt to separate the sheep from their protective wool, i.e. dollars. An unscrupulous and inconsiderate transfer of wealth from those who are unsuspecting and trusting of others to those who are "playing the game".

[Cee-It]

I enjoyed teaching baseball to young boys (and softball to girls) myself. Good outlet and a nice way to give something back to society. Most coaches are credits to their community. I hope your not teaching those kids to whine to the umpire when they don't get their way.

Speaking of valid critics though. I think one needs to point out that critics are often wrong, just as many of those longs that you may feel are running pump and dumps are actually only pointing out reasons they are owners and encouraging others to evaluate their reasoning. There's nothing worse than a critic that posts criticism of the points made by longs and basis their criticism on incorrect and inaccurate information.

[Huggy Bear]

Doing just fine Dee thanks. Softball and baseball seasons in full swing so plenty busy coaching kids, playing/coaching both a rec league here in Conway and also coaching a tournament team consisting of some of the best players in the city league from several teams to compete locally against kids from other cities on the weekends.

All games rained out today, looks to be some rough weather bearing down on us this afternoon my friend. Tornados possible all the way down in your neck of the woods looks like as well....

Ahh, spring in the South.

No opinion on paid bashers. Seems like a wives tale of the penny stock world IMO. However, I do know of some quite unscrupulous penny hedge fund managers who I suspect do not have the same burdens for shorting penny stocks as we do. Perhaps some are in their employ, who knows? Of course those are rumors as well. A 2.50/share margin requirement just makes it very impractical and risky once a security falls below a certain threshold for myself. I know nothing regarding the margin requirements of non-US investors/traders.

Critics are often lashed out at by staunch supporters of pump and dump attempts, naturally. They don't believe what they say IMO, it is all a big game to get a momo run going and cash in on some rubes who buy at the top, thinking that the mass claims of riches for all must have some substance behind it. Valid critique is sand in the gears of pump and dump attempts. Real investors honor and respect critique that is contrary to their beliefs, at least I do. One never knows everything and the collective can be quite useful in pointing out something one might have missed.

[DeeDog]

You got that right, my personal ethics won't allow me to either pump or bash in an attempt to manipulate the price. I just say what I think, good or bad...but not usually at or near times when I'm trading.

As for paid bashers, I can see the possibility tho not likely IMO. Many pennies are shorted by people offshore, including those in Canada and Europe, too expensive for us in the continental US. I suppose they could solicit help in bashing but I don't think it would be any more illegal that pumping, just unethical. I do think they should be tagged with a disclaimer, same as paid pumpers, and I've never seen that.

Ya doin' OK Malc?
Have a nice weekend
Dee

[Huggy Bear]

For many people, the only tangible value is money. And of course money has its place, but the value of cultivating a compassionate attitude is much more effective. When we only pay attention to material values, there’s little room for concern for others, or for mutual regard.

- His Holiness the Dalia Lama

[Huggy Bear]

OTHM. The paid posters that crowd that board spewing lies and garbage is downright scandalous.

[Huggy Bear]

OTHM. Guilty as charged by the BCSC of course, but pump and dump it on some rube anyway I suppose lol.

CFGX. Up to a four star pump and dump attempt now.

The garbage spewed in these putrid spaces will never cease to amaze me.

[Huggy Bear]

newpontiac - Where is Sam Cain are you my friend?

[Huggy Bear]

Thanks Big Bake. I had never come across any such regulatory actions addressing said nebulous activity, at best, but I am always open to being corrected.

[Huggy Bear]

You are welcome and best of luck in getting some eyes cracking down on fraud if indeed that is the case.

Your obvious intelligence leads me to think you are probably barking up the right tree.

Getting the regulators to do something about it is a different matter in entirety.

[BigBake1]

There are not any regulations, but then again there haven't been any actions discovering such a concept.

On the big boards there have been lawsuits launched against individuals and most concern hedging with options to benefit.

[BigBake1]

Creating volatility for a low entry point to sell higher is plausible and to some degree it does play out on some of these message boards. But such a pattern is not very reliable because the typical lack of content to such posts with no supporting evidence tends to not move anything at all. One is far more likely to benefit from pumping a security up while selling that go through all the work. Lets face it most shareholders under water rarely just dump their shares, the majority of actual liquidity in the OTC comes from dilution, plain and simple. All one has to do is wait it out and the issuer will create the dip needed to enter, just figuring out when the diluting ends and where to enter becomes work. In some cases they simply call the issuer and ask whom is doing the dumping, they often collude with that entity.

Large groups have been known to do so and there are countless regulatory actions filed where this has been confirmed over and over again.

[Phatlander]

To read the boards to the extent necessary to see the roles being played out would be a large undertaking for someone not being compensated to investigate, and on my part doing my civic duty will be nearly as large of task...but I am a former Forest Fire Officer and former volunteer firefighter (highly trained and underpaid)...so I'm used to donating and working with law enforcement, as well as some evidentiary aspects. I'll take what I have there and see what they'll want from me. Thanks to you and BigBake for your replies.

[Phatlander]

Ahh, I see. That is interesting. So the confession is a hoax...yet it is interesting to see these described roles played out on a message board. Very curious.
Now I'm wondering what the "original" script looked like before editing. But having been "boiled" and re-edited to suit each users needs, makes it likely that we won't really know for sure. At the current level of information, it looks silly.
I'll have to give this more thought and research as you suggest, but thank you for your replies to me.

[Huggy Bear]

Agreed. As far as one of Phatlander's earlier questions goes, do you know of any SEC regulation requiring a compensated "basher" to disclose that fact, assuming of course paid bashers exist which is nebulous IMO.

[Huggy Bear]

As Big Bake that story has been around awhile and even the author of it admitted it was an elaborate hoax message - At least that is what the author later contended lol.

Regarding what you have witnessed, which stock are you referring to currently?

Just leave out who you feel are the culprits and do your civic duty elsewhere.

The ticker is on topic.

[Phatlander]

Lacking the possible plausibility that there is some truthful merit to what I just posted in reply to Malc for the sake of further exploration of the possibilities, I would fully succumb to your first paragraph. However, seeing the roles described in the "confession" played out in real message board posting has brought merit to this confession in my eyes.
In regards to the second, that shorting could pay for the bashing, I think this could be true to some degree. But as I've looked at the scenario as played out stock specific, I would also agree they're not really making a whole lot there. The only real benefit I can conceive, is that of what the investing hedge fund could make on the long side of things.
But this really leads into my second scenario, what if what I've witnessed is the efforts of one highly intelligent individual, perhaps with one accomplice, that is utilizing the script here to manipulate the stock by utilizing multiple aliases, sometimes pumping, sometimes bashing by character, to manipulate a stock to create volatility he/they can profit from?

[BigBake1]

You really need to dig into some research about that "story", it was completely made up and the original story on I believe raging bulls included a firm named that when you used the first letter of each name it was F.A.K.E, hence the board name on IHUB named after that awesome fishing story.


http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=57988862

It has been edited many times to fit certain criteria or modernized with newer names, but it is all the same. This story you posted has included yet another fictitious document, it is from the "Bashers Handbook", yet another story that people steal from and piece into their own creation. The Internet is a fun place, but often the amusement is truly just for amusement purposes only.

[Phatlander]

As I noted before, I have seen these roles played out to a "T" across multiple message boards regarding a stock I'll also leave unnamed. Aside from iHub yahoo and Seeking Alpha were the other two venues I'm aware of. There may have been more venues.
While I don't necessarily buy into his guilt ridden motive for "confessing", the roles described are what grabbed my attention.
Below is the edited text, names removed, to hopefully avoid any tos issues.


Confessions of a Paid Stock Basher:
I am a paid basher.
Yes, it is true. Today is my last day at this company; I'm moving on to anew job. I've realized that there are more dignifying jobs out there that can pay me equally as well. But before I go, I want to explain a few things because this just isn't right and I won't feel good about myself until I expose this sham. It's hurt too many people and I don't want it on my conscience anymore. I can no longer live with a lie.
I work for a company called G*** C*** *** in ***, CT.Basically, it's a Boiler Room much like the one in the movie of the same name.The idea behind my group is to bash the price of a company's stock down low enough to where the group of investors who retained our company's services can buy the stock really cheap and perhaps even take it over all together.
There are approximately 70 people at the company divided into several groups. My group, consisting of 5 people, is responsible for I***. While I probably shouldn't give any names of anyone working here now, what the heck, I'm leaving here, so what can they do? sue me? Ha! I can tell you that ***& *** *** were part of my group until he left last week, as was ***. Others who have been part of this include early bashers like *** and ***. You may be interested to know that some hypsters, such as *** and even ***!!, have also been part of the scam (more on that later).
There are several companies engaged in the bashing business, ours is not the only one. However, I can tell you that not every basher in here is a paid basher. Having done this for a year, I can usually tell who is a paid basher and who is merely someone having a little fun. While unpaid bashers have a different motive than someone like me, they can be unwilling accomplices to helping me achieve my ultimate goal and they also spread rumor and confusion throughout a room, which also helps me.
What is that goal? Well, I am merely a cog in a much larger machine, so my bosses never really explained the big picture to me, but I'd say essentially,**** was right. There are several companies who are quite familiar with *** *** and *** *** and who are deathly afraid of them.
There are three types of bashers here at G***C***Funds: Advanced,Intermediate and Beginner. An Advanced- level basher (also known as a SilverTongued Devil) would spread false or misleading information about the company. They would deal in facts, countering every longs post with articles,news reports and opinion surveys that gave a negative impression about the company.
An Intermediate-level basher (also known as a Serpent) would try to weasel their way into the confidence of longs and create doubt using rumor or innuendo.
Finally, a Beginner-level basher (also known as a Pitchfork) would attempt to create confusion in the room by distracting other posters with satire, name calling and pointless arguments. The idea was to make sure no serious discussion of the stock could take place. A Pitchfork was usually a basher, but not always. Sometimes, we would throw in a hypster Pitchfork such as *** *** and a pumper like *** to create the illusion of an argument goingon. What was really funny (in a perverse way, I guess) was that *** and *** sat next to each other, laughing the whole time.
I was a Serpent basher, because I am known for effective bashing based onsolid facts and truth. I was paid a base wage of $18 an hour for my services. I was given a $1.25 bonus for every decent quality post over 100 per day as wellas a monthly bonus of $100 for every penny the stock had dropped from the previous month. I was also paid a bonus for bashing on weekends. While this may not sound like much, I made a decent, though dishonorable, paycheck plus a nice Laptop with free wireless internet connection.
Each of us sat in a small half-cubicle in a cluster with our teammates.Each group (usually five people) was made of three beginners (two who would bash and one who would hype), one intermediate and one advanced level basher. Occasionally for some
of the hotter stocks, one of the beginners would be replaced by an intermediate depending on how much the stock was rising. I*** was a low-level stock, meaning it got the 3-1-1 configuration.
Honestly though, somehow, I get the feeling that *** may have worked for a basher company or knows someone who does because the fund website she occasionally posts is eerily similar to our employer's websites. While not exact, I'd say it is about 90 percent the same. We do have certain rules that we follow.
First, we have to develop a character and stay within that character in order to build a "following." My character, "***," was a humorous,sarcastic, obnoxious supporter of free speech and loved to portray himself as a truth-telling superhero, but only when it came to bashers.
Next, we had to follow certain guidelines on what we could say. We were urged to have an "answer" to every long's question, but we were to frame that answer in a way that ridiculed the questioner for asking such a question.However, we were never to use profanity or vulgarity because that would cause people to ignore us. We were to make fun of people, but in a civil way. The idea was to get "play," i.e. reaction from other posters. The more play we got, the more the room would be disrupted. Ignored posters get no play. One exception would be the hypsters since they were "defending" the stock against our onslaught, they got a little more leeway. People would side with the hypster because they thought he was real since he appeared to be on their side, but was really on ours, setting us up to disrupt the room. *** was quite good at this and gets paid very well.
I've worked on I***, V**, A***, Q***, B*** for a few months now. In addition to the *** alias, I've used a few others on several other boards as well. I've used so many aliases that I can not remember the monikers or the passwords. I honestly lost track of everything. I stuck with *** because it was the one that got the most play from other posters.
In closing, I feel absolutely terrible about this. It's just awful how I've been part of a scam designed to cheat honest, hard- working people out of their investments all for the
benefit of a few wealthy people who already have enough money to last a lifetime.
These greedy people MUST be stopped. That's why I'm posting this before I leave. I want to make up for some of the damage I've done. I can't live with this lie anymore. You can't imagine how hard it is to look at myself in the mirror each morning knowing my job is to cheat and lie.
I have to go now, I'm too broken up to continue. I hope this confession can make up for my sordid deeds; I would urge everyone who reads this to inform as many people as you can. Only by shining the light of truth can we drive these rats back into the darkness from whence they came. Believe me, they don't want publicity.
Good luck and I hope all of you the best in your investment endeavors.
Cheers,
***

[BigBake1]

Here is the problem with the supposed idea of a stock basher on the OTC, where does the money come from? How does one pay someone to bash a security? Where does the flow of money start and end?

Some have theorized that "shorting" can be a source to pay and fund the activity. But anyone that has ever researched the activity of shorting on the OTC will find it is not even a profitable transaction due to Reg T requirements making it cost prohibitive.

There isn't a way to hedge a position based upon the activity that is hoped to be caused by bashing the security. Further making it difficult is that no OTCBB or OTC market quoted security is eligible marginable in the first place.

Could it happen on exchanges? Certainly, because there are a multitude of ways the parties could benefit from the action. Not only are the securities easier to short and cost far less to do so but there are "Options" to use also, a simple PUT option can be used. Colluding entities can actually work together in a manner so that all have incentive to act, because they all have ways to pocket money on their own. There is no doubt some "talking heads" play both sides of the market and have influenced certain securities with their statements. But those people have access to a national audience where such influence has far greater strength. Most have disclaimers about their opinions offered.

Here in the OTC it is strictly pump related because that is the only side where benefit can be taken by everyone involved.

[Huggy Bear]

Of course I catch all kinds of flak for all my critiques on many stocks where I find fundamental problems as opposed to the hyperbole and expectations projected. So please excuse me for rushing to the wrong conclusions regarding your inquiries, I believe I understand now where you are coming from.

In regards to whether paid bashers exist, I found a link that is evidently forbidden to be shared on iHub, so my post had been removed within seconds of posting that on a different board. It disclosed the ways in which a boiler room would engage in driving down pps at the employ of penny hedge funds. The tactics described there I've seen utilized to the "T".

Feel free to post what you have found here for discussion. As long as certain obvious TOU's are not included in the material we have much more freedom to discuss these type of issues here as opposed to a stock specific board. It may very well be not the content but the venue in which it is presented. Let's find out. I am open to entertaining all sides before passing personal judgment and I also share in your thoughts regarding boiler room type tactics - They are not limited to "pump only" type manipulations by any stretch of the imagination IMO.

You may even want to spring for a premium membership one of these days. Some use it to spread misinformation and have fun lashing out at "bashers", some of us find it useful in sharing information that is otherwise not permitted according to the rules of the site which I support in earnest. They, Admin, do their best to moderate what is an extremely unruly space otherwise.

Thanks for expressing what amounts to a rare understanding of where I am coming from and the thought process behind the person and again apologies for my inaccurate assumptions earlier.

Fare well and excellence is not a born trait in any of us but a constant journey.

[Phatlander]

Malc, I am sure that you have taken a great deal of flak on the other board I posted some data on (check out the links and FINRA rule 4560), but I assure you, none of the questions I asked you are about you. So if the SEC shows up on your doorstep, it won't be on my account...lol.
I asked these questions of you vs the dd board, because I have followed that board long enough to know the treatment they would give my questions. I figure you to be an honest man by principle, thus most likely to make an honest reply. No, my inquiries are about another matter that has caught my attention.
I certainly don't suspect you of using multiple aliases, as that doesn't even seem close to your style. I also appreciate our previous discussions, and wish you the best.
As a footnote, I don't count you to be a basher. A bear, yes at times, but basher no. You at least post significant facts that are verifiable. I've also checked out enough of your posts to see that you do make some serious investments, such as JC*, among others (at one point almost posted a Seeking Alpha article to your P S board awhile back).
I'll check out the SEC hotline or link. In regards to whether paid bashers exist, I found a link that is evidently forbidden to be shared on iHub, so my post had been removed within seconds of posting that on a different board. It disclosed the ways in which a boiler room would engage in driving down pps at the employ of penny hedge funds. The tactics described there I've seen utilized to the "T".
The penny world is full of many nefarious characters, as I've journeyed deeper in. Once you think you know something, question it again. I really need more technical tools and the time to use them properly to trade better, but I put nearly sixty hours or more into my workplace. The rest of my spare time is spent between researching and another endeavor. GLTY.

[Huggy Bear]

Question one:

I have a question for you on the transverse side of this equation: what requirement of disclosure, if any, does the SEC or any governing authority require of those who receive compensation to bash a stock?
I realize that this sort of question is scoffed at by many prominent posters, but you seem to hold a great deal of knowledge about SEC violations and FINRA rules, so I'm hoping to receive an honest reply to my inquiry without scoffing at the notion of "do paid bashers really exist?"

I am not aware of any SEC regulation regarding the disclosure of a "paid basher" if in fact these exist. Your question is better off asked at the DD board where there are a whole bunch of "bashers" to some, realists IMO.

Question two:

A second follow up question is what about when a highly intelligent individual undertakes to utilize multiple aliases on multiple message boards in order to garner the influence to manipulate a stocks share price by using some of his aliases to pump a stock on false hopes, then bash the stock through other aliases to create panic loss selling creating volatility in both directions? While I'm pretty sure the undertaking is illegal, to whom would I report such suspected activity?

The scenario you are describing sounds to me to be an example of what would be considered market manipulation (even attempted) to the regulators and if I felt I had suspicions of such backed by concrete or even circumstantial evidence I would report it via the SEC whistleblower link that is provided in this Ibox.

I have read your "discoveries" on the NBRI board and if you are suggesting that I am either a compensated basher or market manipulator (flipper for profit) of NBRI then by all means report me to the SEC.

They will find it amusing I am sure. I am a serious investor and any research into investments I discuss publically should show this. If I think a company is a legitimate investment with better than average chances for real returns I say so. If I think a company is a poor investment I also say so and do my best to provide the reasoning underlying either perception, bullish or bearish outlook.

Believe it or not there are hundreds of folks like me who freely share their DD regarding what they think is a poor investment. This is America and we operate on the Free Marketplace of Ideals and Debate principle. You do not have to agree with me and clearly do not regarding my opinion of NBRI and their properties, but unfortunately you do have to tolerate it.

Regarding your earlier discourse and opinions of retailers shorting NBRI and hence this MUST be the reason for all the negativity on the board I would encourage you to continue your research. Margin requirements of 2.50 per share shorted simply fail to make it fiscally feasible for a retailer to short any stock once it becomes too cheap - Not to mention the incredible stupidity of such considering the margin requirements of retailers who short stocks.

Now can penny hedge funds short stocks that are impractical for retailers to short? I suspect so. Do I "work" for them? I assure you I do not but of course I understand your suspicions. My opinions are intended to show the other side of what others consider to be an "investment of a lifetime" and all that jazz.

Best wishes Phatlander and as usual thanks for the civil discourse and intelligent conversation. When you find out about any SEC regulations regarding the disclosure of "paid bashers" please report back here, I would be very interested if you chase down that dark Phoenix.

[Phatlander]

I have a question for you on the transverse side of this equation: what requirement of disclosure, if any, does the SEC or any governing authority require of those who receive compensation to bash a stock?
I realize that this sort of question is scoffed at by many prominent posters, but you seem to hold a great deal of knowledge about SEC violations and FINRA rules, so I'm hoping to receive an honest reply to my inquiry without scoffing at the notion of "do paid bashers really exist?"
A second follow up question is what about when a highly intelligent individual undertakes to utilize multiple aliases on multiple message boards in order to garner the influence to manipulate a stocks share price by using some of his aliases to pump a stock on false hopes, then bash the stock through other aliases to create panic loss selling creating volatility in both directions? While I'm pretty sure the undertaking is illegal, to whom would I report such suspected activity?

[Huggy Bear]

I don't think most believe it, just looking to dump on some newbs or rooks. OTHM back at it today with all the usual suspects coming out of the woodwork.

[DeeDog]

GM Malc, plenty of them out there. They start off small, posting on a message board that they are buying 100's of 1000's of shares, sometimes every day.

They fail to mention anything about selling shares, leaving the impression that they accumulate...buy and hold. All the while they boast that the .03 stock will soon be worth $1 or more.

I wonder how many people believe these bold statements and actually join in?