Shelly's Vacation Board

[crystal clear]

Great Stuff! Have I mentioned how much I LUV this board! lol

[janice shell]

lol, the contorni go with the secondo. Salad or veggies. Lots of people don't bother with 'em.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Ok, good info - I'm clicking on Keep for ones like this so that I can read as we go.

Too much swirling through my head already - I was good with ordering an antipasta or a primo with a secondo. Now you're throwing in contorni! :)

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Alright - I'm so tempted to Google it but will wait. :)

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Ok, that sounds great - thank you so much!

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

How about the pigeons? I'm not afraid of pigeons but your earlier post has me envisioning that old Hitchcock move - The Birds, I think it was called.

[janice shell]

Yep, that's the one. Waaaaaaayyyy cool!

[lucky, mydog]

?

http://www3.sympatico.ca/tapholov/pages/bones.html

[janice shell]

Oh yes, not to be missed. Though there wasn't any Hard Rock Cafe nearby when I went.

[janice shell]

One way to get round the primo-secondo thing is to go to a pizzeria, of course. Some people do order an antipasto before the pizza, but you don't have to. And of course no one would ask for pasta before a pizza...

[janice shell]

If pasta and risotto are the primos - where do salads come in? They don't?

Salads are a contorno. If you want one, order it with your secondo.

[janice shell]

LOL!! When you're ordering bistecca alla Fiorentina, you're supposed to man up and eat the whole thing. With antipasti, a primo, and contorni.

But nowadays, if the two of you order it, they'll probably bring it on one platter, and slice and serve it in front of you. It's always a bigger serving of meat than Italians normally eat, but you'll be able to manage it.

What you could do in that case to avoid the primo is to order just an antipasto and the bistecca and maybe a salad. That's less filling.

Decades ago, when I was first in Florence, I visited friends in Florence frequently. When my parents came for a visit--their first time in the country--I took them. I had a friend, Piero, who really, really loved to eat. He knew just about every restaurant worth going to. I'd been with him before to a small trattoria outside of the city, up in the hills, that specialized in bistecca alla Fiorentina.

So I asked him if he'd escort me and my parents and a couple of other friends. I probably couldn't have found the place on my own. My parents weren't big eaters. I warned them in advance that Piero would be doing the ordering. So we started with a big round of antipasti: prosciutto, salami, olives, bread, crostini, who knows what else. Then pasta for the primo. I'm sure my parents were full by then.

Out came the steak. Piero had visited the kitchen, and told them to slice it about three inches thick. It was gargantuan. My parents' eyes bugged out. But they were troupers, and ate as much as they could...

Another note about restaurants: you don't have to order all your courses at once. You can start with whatever you're having first, and then choose the next depending on what, and how much, you feel like eating. Meals are leisurely in Italy; people don't expect their next course to be delivered the minute they finish the first.

[dougthehead]

when you go to Rome, go to the Hard Rock Cafe, when you get there ask them how to get to the place made out of bones, they will point, and you should go.

trust me

[Essence Of Wealth]

Because, first class is usually more comfortable.
Not so close to other people and quieter.

I always considered the destination more important than the trip if flying, (If driving, it's easier to see the sites than looking out an airplane window so, I prefer to be awake on driving trips).
And, with that thought, being "sleep" rested, gives one a head start on the sites and what the vacation is mainly about.
But, maybe that's just me.

[dougthehead]

2 days for naples, 1 of which for pompeii, other for the city (naples) let me know in a pm how old you guys are at heart, it will help me to figure out some good stuff

[janice shell]

Well... There're some fishing villages you can get to from Venice. You could also consider the Cinque Terre, on the coast near Genova. But neither is likely to be as quaint and romantic as you're hoping for. If you want that, you need to go somewhere pretty remote, like Sardinia or Sicily. And you don't have time for that in two weeks.

Don't worry, though: Venice is plenty romantic. Despite all the tourists.

You should read some of Donna Leon's mysteries to prepare.

[dougthehead]

I live here, ask me for a pic and I will post.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Me, too! It's so fun to hear all of this...and the beauty of being able to hear from people who have lived there or spent time there is such a bonus.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Pizza and gelato - sounds perfect!

Since we are planning on going to Naples this will go on our itinerary.

There...already one night of the 14 planned. ha!

Thank you again!

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

I love Murano glass - though I'm guessing most of the stuff I've seen wasn't authentic. It looks like a great place to possibly get a nice keepsake for the kids.

If anyone is unfamiliar with it - here are some images:

http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=628&q=murano+glass&gbv=2&oq=murano&aq=1&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1140l3116l0l4482l6l6l0l1l1l0l354l971l0.3.1.1l5l0

That sounds like a great side trip. Will it be something that will likely be an all day event or just a few hours?

Good to know re: the casino. :)

Thank you!

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

"BTW, why would you say it's a bummer to have enough saved miles for free first class? Unless you mean the sleeping whole way." Yes, that's what I was referencing - just seems like a waste of a first class ticket if I'm planning on being knocked out. :)

Australia sounds wonderful to me as well. My husband has been there a couple of times for business and had a bit of free time. He really enjoyed it as well.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

This sounds great:

http://italianfood.about.com/od/beefbracioleetc/r/blr0568.htm

So, now my question - if it's that large - would it be frowned off if we were to share it? Or take left overs? Also, if we order this do we also need a primo?

It says it's a Florence specialty but I'm assuming it will be available in other cities?

If pasta and risotto are the primos - where do salads come in? They don't?

Btw, thank you so much for taking the time to respond - this is invaluable information. :)

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Hmmm, maybe countryside wasn't the right word...I want to see a little village? (maybe fishing) that's romanticized in all the movies/books you read. I like big cities and enjoy them for what they have to offer. But, I also love what here we would think of as quaint little towns in less urban areas. You know what I mean?

Pretty sure Rome, Naples and Venice are on the to see list. Now, it's a matter of me researching how long in each and then see if there's anything we can add to/from these cities.

[Essence Of Wealth]

Great, now I'm hungry for Pizza again.

[crystal clear]

LUV'N THIS BOARD!!! I'm reading every word, and looking at every map, lol. Thanks for starting this, shelly!

[janice shell]

Damn that looks good.

[dougthehead]

Okay, here is just some average pizza from the place that delivers to us:

[janice shell]

There's a great pizzeria in Ischia, as I said. On the road to the fortress. I don't remember the name...

Now post some pix of PIZZA to entice her...

[dougthehead]

My wife and I's favorite place for pizza in Naples is here:

Acqua & Farina Pizzeria
acquaefarinapizzeria.com

?http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.820484,14.133678&spn=0,0.001737&t=h&z=20&iwloc=lyrftr:h,13766101002554494302,40.82054,14.133772&layer=c&cbll=40.820408,14.13377&panoid=_8gqQQjVhBZlY51XJLcb4Q&cbp=12,21.49,,0,-2.02

There is a train station within walking distance although it is a bit of a hike here:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.824793,14.121185&spn=0,0.001737&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=40.824811,14.121313&panoid=F0PLWb1jh0bZ3SjFe7pevQ&cbp=12,58.74,,0,-11.95
On the walk there or back you will pass by another favorite place of ours for the best gelato you can get here:

Anema e Cono

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.821544,14.127108&spn=0,0.001737&t=h&z=20&iwloc=lyrftr:h,13766101002554494302,40.82054,14.133772&layer=c&cbll=40.821541,14.126979&panoid=Y1O37YzdvaTjnsJzfChgFg&cbp=12,37.71,,1,6.79


The good thing about that train station though is that it is very very close, like 2 minutes walk from the Ferry that can take you to Ischia, Capri, Procida, etc. here:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.823685,14.118315&spn=0,0.001737&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=40.82378,14.118352&panoid=-K8w8iGVU9HTdCnZGgY5yw&cbp=12,223.14,,0,9.87

[dougthehead]

My wife and I's favorite place for pizza in Naples is here:

Acqua & Farina Pizzeria
acquaefarinapizzeria.com

?http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.820484,14.133678&spn=0,0.001737&t=h&z=20&iwloc=lyrftr:h,13766101002554494302,40.82054,14.133772&layer=c&cbll=40.820408,14.13377&panoid=_8gqQQjVhBZlY51XJLcb4Q&cbp=12,21.49,,0,-2.02

There is a train station within walking distance although it is a bit of a hike here:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.824793,14.121185&spn=0,0.001737&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=40.824811,14.121313&panoid=F0PLWb1jh0bZ3SjFe7pevQ&cbp=12,58.74,,0,-11.95
On the walk there or back you will pass by another favorite place of ours for the best gelato you can get here:

Anema e Cono

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.821544,14.127108&spn=0,0.001737&t=h&z=20&iwloc=lyrftr:h,13766101002554494302,40.82054,14.133772&layer=c&cbll=40.821541,14.126979&panoid=Y1O37YzdvaTjnsJzfChgFg&cbp=12,37.71,,1,6.79


The good thing about that train station though is that it is very very close, like 2 minutes walk from the Ferry that can take you to Ischia, Capri, Procida, etc. here:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.823685,14.118315&spn=0,0.001737&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=40.82378,14.118352&panoid=-K8w8iGVU9HTdCnZGgY5yw&cbp=12,223.14,,0,9.87

[janice shell]

lol, not me, Shelly and her husband. I've been to Venice a million times.

But she likes pizza. So you should tell her about the best places in Naples. Maybe with some pix.

[dougthehead]

Agreed, you should not miss Venice, and my personal recommendation would be to take the short boat ride to Murano island once you are there to see the glass blowers make the most famous glass items in the world. Avoid the casino, no one wins there and the dress code is ridiculous. If your scared of pigeons Piazza San Marco will be a thrill, lol.

[Essence Of Wealth]

Your welcome.
Actually, I would recommend an alternative of any kind to a motion sickness drug but, I don't personally know of any that is as effective.
That's not to say there isn't a better one out there.
First class for free. . . sounds like a dream.
I wonder if sleeping most of the trip might help with jet lag and/or motion sickness?!

BTW, why would you say it's a bummer to have enough saved miles for free first class?
Unless you mean the sleeping whole way.
I wouldn't feel that way because, what would you really be missing on an airplane anyway. Being awake before the landing part to see the views from above would be all I'd be interested in.

A co-worker that's just retired is from Australia and is fly there soon and he said he took a flight there once "first class" and he said it was the greatest way to fly but, he said that trip was paid for by his son and he himself doesn't have the money to pay for first class on his next flight.

I think I would like to visit Australia at least once in my life.
Maybe after I retire . . . if I ever do. lol



Essence of Wealth

Ha! I don't care for flying domestically and always take Dramamine - it totally knocks me out for a couple of hours!

I'll ask my doctor for something a little stronger for this flight because of the duration.

The bummer is that...we've been saving our miles for awhile and currently have enough to fly first class for free...I've been told that first class to Europe is an amazing experience in and of itself. So, sleeping the whole way seems a little unappreciative? if that's the right word. Decadent? maybe?

Definitely saving the "avoiding jet lag" links.

Thank you!

[janice shell]

Another tip... At those non-touristy restaurants you go to, you'll be expected to order at least two courses: the primo and the secondo. You can also get an appetizer or dessert if you want, but the primo and secondo are expected.

Pasta is a primo. Risotto is a primo. Then you order the main course. Don't be afraid. Unless you're getting bistecca alla Fiorentino, it won't be a huge portion. (I do highly recommend bistecca alla Fiorentina, of course.)

Alternatively, you could order an antipasto and a secondo. But I really do think one should have pasta or risotto with every meal. In that case, you could do an antipasto and a primo. But you need two courses. And wine, of course. Unless you're at a really expensive place (and sometimes even if you are) you'll probably do fine with the house wine ("Vino della casa.") It'll be served in carafes, and measured by liters and fractions thereof. (In expensive places, the house wine may be bottled, but it'll still be less expensive than other choices.) Two of you? A liter to start with, I think.

In places that serve wine by the bottle or fiasco, sometimes you'll only be charged for what you drink.

A tip about tipping: Do NOT tip 15%, much less 20%. Service is included. But you should leave a little money if you like the place. Maybe the equivalent of three to five bucks.

And don't tip cabbies. Only Americans do that.

[janice shell]

lol, no, it's not easy. But be realistic, and don't try to do too much, or you won't enjoy any of it. You can always go back.

Naples is farther from Rome than you probably think. It'd be a pretty hectic day trip from Rome. What you could do would be to go down in the morning, stay overnight, and leave late the next day. Since your husband likes antiquities, you could catch Pompeii and Herculaneum as well. Or he could, if you wanted to stay in Naples.

Just remember that there's a LOT to see everywhere, so you'll have to pick and choose.

As for "the countryside"... Well, Italians are an urban people. They don't live out in the middle of nowhere. They find that scary. Even in agricultural areas, people live in tiny towns, surrounded by fields and stuff. But since that interests you, check out "agriturismo"; it features places to stay (and many good things to eat) out of big cities. Some are rustic. Others are quite luxurious. Tuscany might be the best bet for the latter.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

You know what? This was a great comment - helps me narrow down my plans - I do want to try Italian pizza! I'd have to say that a really good pizza is one of my favorite foods.

So, Rome for my husband's tastes, Naples and Venice for me.

Though I really, really wanted to spend some time in the countryside as well.

Will have to look at a map, but maybe a day trip from a country home or small town to Naples for pizza would work.

Oy, but I'm sure my husband is going to want to explore Vatican City as well...and at least.

This isn't so easy.

[janice shell]

You really shouldn't miss Venice. It's one of the rare places that really is exactly as you hoped it would be. The trick there is to explore the non-touristy areas. Once you get away from the Piazza San Marco-Rialto area, you'll find the real Venice. Not, of course, that you should miss Piazza San Marco.

Or Harry's Bar.

[janice shell]

I'm sure I'll come across this as I'm researching but in general is there a "siesta" time in mid-afternoon much like Spain where everything closes and re-opens later?

Yes. Big stores--department stores and supermarkets and the like--stay open all day, but smaller places close between 12 and 2. Or 12 and 3, in some cases.

Before dinner, you can spend an hour or two at a nice bar (indoor or outdoor, depending on the season and the weather, with aperitivi and snacks.

[janice shell]

Definitely saving the "avoiding jet lag" links.

Take melatonin. It really does help.

[janice shell]

If it's pizza you want, then you should go to Naples, however briefly. The pizza there will blow your mind. I spent a week in Ischia about ten years ago. I went with an Italian friend. I told her we'd absolutely have to find the best pizzeria. She said, "Pfft. Pizza's pretty much the same everywhere."

She later admitted that she was entirely wrong about that. We did find the best pizza place. Naturally they also did other dishes, but it was the pizza we were after. So much that on our last night there, we had TWO different pizze apiece.

There's an IHub poster who lives in Naples. He's posted some photos from his favorite pizzerie. He could steer you to the right places.

[janice shell]

Oh yes, avoid the "no frills" places. That could mean sharing a bathroom. Fine when you're a student backpacking around Europe, but not for grownups. "Unfettered authenticity" is probably not what you're looking for. Usually it translates to "primitive plumbing".

Italians like luxury. They don't put up with unfettered authenticity. Not for a moment.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Btw, I've always wanted to see Venice...your recommendation makes it a "must do" on this trip. Thank you. :)

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

I really am finding it interesting so far...Just bummer that things have been so crazy around the site lately...I had really planned to dive into figuring this out and between the kids/work hasn't happened. :)

I love reading Janice's posts since she lived there for many years.

My husband is more of an explorer kind of traveler. He likes seeing/experiencing the historical, in this case, the ancient. I like experiencing the current, the way of life as it is today.

Even though it seems very diverse, it generally works out very well when we vacation. We both find unexpected enjoyments in each others' choices.

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Oh, let me know if he has any great tips! Thanks!

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Hahaha - k, talk about jet lag issues - that would be having dinner at 3:30AM or so my time...Lol!

I'm sure I'll come across this as I'm researching but in general is there a "siesta" time in mid-afternoon much like Spain where everything closes and re-opens later?

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Ha! I don't care for flying domestically and always take Dramamine - it totally knocks me out for a couple of hours!

I'll ask my doctor for something a little stronger for this flight because of the duration.

The bummer is that...we've been saving our miles for awhile and currently have enough to fly first class for free...I've been told that first class to Europe is an amazing experience in and of itself. So, sleeping the whole way seems a little unappreciative? if that's the right word. Decadent? maybe?

Definitely saving the "avoiding jet lag" links.

Thank you!

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

Yummm! I love pizza but as a former Chicagoan - I've always preferred a deep dish pizza. Maybe Italy will change that?

[IH Admin [Shelly]]

This is great information...my husband and I were naively thinking that we could likely hit a few cities while there. But, from what I'm reading here and elsewhere, it makes sense to really narrow it down to a couple of places that we really want to explore.

What even prompted me to start this board was...a month or so ago an ad came up on some website I was on that had an offer for a Travel and Leisure book on exploring Italy for $5. Figured $5 (like $1 shipping so that wasn't the catch) probably - can't go wrong so I ordered it. We got it and I just sort of glanced through it. Then decided to also get advice here.

Later I looked more closely at the book and realized that they had a bad print run. The hardcover is upside down/backwards (I'm sure there's a terminology in the publishing world for this but no idea what it is). So what looks like the front of the book is actually the back of the book upside down. Ha!

BUT, really great info...I've already decided a few places I don't want to go. This is heading for one section "Off the coast of Tuscany and south of Sicily lie rustic escapes where English is a rarity and unfettered authenticity a way of life".

It goes on to talk about the lack of any "frills" in experiencing these particular islands...I'm not looking for luxury, would like to experience Italy as more than a tourist hitting every tourist trap, but too rustic would not be a vacation for me.

[crystal clear]

Shelly - I just noticed this board you started a few days ago - LUV IT!! So glad you did this - it will help some of us that want to plan a Europe/Italy trip.

[j$tops]

My brother is there right now. He has been posting photo's on his facebook page they are having a blast there. I think you are in for a very nice vacation!!