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From other board. Big hitter sick of the abuse. Not has lots of evidence.
https://www.thestreet.com/investing/stocks/bill-ackman-attacks-brazen-us-conduct-over-fannie-and-freddie-12846012
Surely Lamberth sees the consequences of all this if we don't get the right ruling. You'd have to be blind not to see it. The whole world is taking notice. Militaries around the globe will not stand for it.
The scumbag paulsen admits they were thieves in the night on film..
If only the gambling public would catch wind of this opportunity..
Thanks for that link. Now, if just one judge or jurist has the fortitude to follow the law, this c-ship (nws) could be voided and all monies returned to the GSEs…
As the higher court said, it will not be an easy job to unscramble the egg, but it must be done to fix this problem.
I wouldn't sweat about thinking on getting awarded any substantial damages. not because it can't happen (I hope it does happen); but a win (no matter if big or small) will be one for the books to start undoing the conservatorship and get rid of the warrants making them illegal in the first place.
Everything else will come up very rapidly.
many people on many sites see the truth.
Has anyone read footnotes no. 9 on page 29 yet?👀$FNMA $FMCC pic.twitter.com/FGBbMScLNF
— José E Burgos Lugo, PA (@TheBurgosGrp) October 5, 2022
The plaintiff lawyers are dumb. I would be surprised if class plaintiffs win and if they do win whether it will be anything substantial at all. Their damages theory that they presented was totally off base and wrongly calculated. I guess that is why they hired another lawyer but it might be too late for this.
1. So what do you think the remedy will be for lost-value theory?
2. How will it be quantified if not per the share price despite it being an "underestimate"? Just because it is an underestimate doesn't mean it will not be used.
as it is clear that plaintiffs’ expert considered the drop in stock price an underestimate of the harm plaintiffs suffered rather than a non-harm entirely.
some folks started following GSE days before the top in 2016, i mean freshly created at that exact time to start their show. amazing aint it, the genuine focus on the GSEs has lasted for years.
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=170126944
It gets much worse than that when you consider the GSE's were a well planned and thought out heist. Also consider the mass infiltration of banking execs into key Gov positions. Then consider the following article.
https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/u-s-continues-to-build-military-presence-in-europe-because-europe-must-be-killed
This thing has gone global. Global banking cartel wants it all and will stop at nothing to get it. GSE's were only the beginning.
The Honorable Judge Thapar wrote a brilliant dissent. I knew he would make the right call, unfortunately the other 2 dimwit judges have no clue about the history of this country or of the historical separation of powers documents..
I hope Plaintiffs appeal this very important issue because if the majority opinion stands there is no need for congress to advise and consent on any nominee anymore.
Honorable Judge Thapar and Gorsuch are the only 2 honorable Judges I have seen.
Call him out in all cases.
If He’s found guilty, could He be sued?
Forgot about him. John should be a part of every class action in the future. His whole purpose was to control price.
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=170110917
KT = JC…say it ain’t so!!
The Governments near perfect plan to wipeout shareholders!
Did the Government bring these cases to court and make it look favorable for court rulings for the government? It would be the perfect plan to wipe out shareholders from ever seeing there lost income and dividends.
Bring these suits to court make a hash job of them only to have the courts rule in favor of the Government.
Seems so with Colin’s opinion? SCOTUS pointed out to David Thompson, You brought the wrong case to court !!
So SCOTUS ruled in FA out of the Government on many issues in the suits and never be allowed to challenge again!
That’s good for shareholders!
I’m going to put this out there as to what I feel has been happening over the last 10 years and with Collins opinion!
Did the Government instruct David Thompson to sabotage the ruling ? All cases so far have not fared well for shareholders, has this being the plan all along by the government, to bring these cases and have the courts rule in favor of the government so no one in the future can challenge anything!!!!
Since SCOTUS told him in court : you brought the wrong case to court !!!
Has the Government along with hedge funds been trying to cut out shareholders so they can make a deal with the Government for the GSE? Would make perfect sense since they are greedy as the government!
With David Hume turning up the heat with this class action I feel he is representing a group of shareholders for damages.
These lawyers for plaintiffs in Lamberth are dumb as dirt and have no clue how to properly assess or quantify damages.
https://www.alvarezandmarsal.com/printpdf/3866
These people know what they are talking about. Certainly not the morons representing class plaintiffs.
Lamberth denied SJ to the plaintiffs on the first two counts (trying to kill the case due to the Supreme Court's Collins ruling). He granted it on the fourth count (restitution/recission damages), and partially granted it on the third count (expectancy damages).
Any damage model that the plaintiffs get to present at trial will not be able to make the assumption that FnF would have paid off the seniors. There's too much to quote here, but the relevant section (i) starts on page 16.
It's not clear what damage model remains. One plausible model is to say that the plaintiffs' reasonable expectation was that shares would, at some point in the (probably distant) future, return to where they traded before conservatorship started. That value, calculated as of 2028-2030 or so (when FnF would have reached their base 2.5% capital requirements, even with the seniors on the books, had the NWS never happened) can be discounted back to 2012 when the NWS was signed, and then brought forward to 2022 with the statutory 6% interest rate in Section 28-3302(a) of the Code of the District of Columbia.
I think the plaintiffs can make a strong case for par+ for the juniors using this model, and around $12 per share for FMCC (~$60 pre-conservatorship divided by 5 for the warrants). The plaintiffs are almost certainly not going to get more than they ask for from the jury, and can easily get less, so it's important that they ask for as much as they can plausibly support.
The last part of page 21 of Lamberth's opinion released today supports the idea that the plaintiffs did include a damage model that was based only on lost share value, as opposed to lost dividend value. This would be good in that it wouldn't delay the trial (which Lamberth said is set for October), but could be bad in that the plaintiffs didn't include it in their pretrial statement and so it must somehow be worse than the ones they did include.
Some folks can’t help themselves, they want to clarify, and justify theft. U can’t make this stuff up unless u work for Treasury.
This is not a problem?
https://usdebtclock.org/
At a very modest 1% interest rate (discount bank rate) that's a whopping $310 BILLION interest payment per year on the debt alone which doesn't include principal. Roughly $1 BILLION per day. National debt in dollars laid end to end would reach from here to Pluto.
Each time the printing presses are fired up, the dollar gets diluted, driving inflation, currently 8.5% annually, preceded by 9.1%. Turkey and Argentina are running at 80% and 78% respectively. Other countries are not that much further behind.
USG just passed a spending bill to keep Gov operational for the next 2.5 months, averting yet another shutdown. You read that right, just 2.5 months. Recall the series of Gov shutdowns leading up to the GSE heist. Afterward, Gov shutdowns miraculously disappeared. Why?
Debt isn't a problem? Surely you jest.
Rodney 5
955, Kindly, let me try to explain why I stated the problem is not the gov debt, that is not the reason the gov took over Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac.
Please note below, " Federal Reserve not only creates money out of nothing but also controls the value of the money that's created."
Money creation can affect the gov debt and the debt can easily be inflated away.
Best Regards
Below is a writing I wrote several years ago trying to explain the difference between a ‘Federal Reserve Note’ and a ‘United States Note’... What most Americans do not understand is that our United States Treasury has stopped creating our money and this power to create money has been given to a private corporation and the name of this corporation is the “Federal Reserve” and it is owned by private shareholders...
What most Americans do not know. It's not that most Americans can't know it's the simple fact that most have not taken the time to know...
The difference between a United States Note and a Federal Reserve Note is that a United States Note represented a "bill of credit" and was inserted by the Treasury directly into circulation free of interest. In other words, a United States Note was created by the United States Treasury. The United States Note also known as “greenbacks” ended in 1971.
The Federal Reserve Note is created by the Federal Reserve and upon creation the Federal Reserve makes a profit of 6% as defined as a statutory dividend. In other words, instead of the United States Treasury creating the money supply at no cost to the United States Taxpayer the Federal Reserve is creating the money supply and charging the United States Taxpayer 6% on money creation.
What most Americans do not understand is that the Federal Reserve is not the United States Government. The Federal Reserve is a corporation owned by private stockholders which are international bankers. What's deceptive in giving an appearance of impression different from the true one is the wording “Federal,” Certain words and phrases can be misleading.
Example: Federal Express (Fed Ex) The word “Federal” in the business model of Federal Express has nothing to do with the Federal Government.
Now how would you like to own a business where you could create money out of nothing and receive a 6% dividend? And what's amazing the Federal Reserve not only creates money out of nothing but also controls the value of the money that's created. (Value: purchasing power). And the poor ole American worker is caught in this system of payment (Federal Reserve Note) which is being devalued by a minimum of 2% per year. (2% Fed target rate of inflation).
On average the American worker gives 40 hours of his or her life every week to receive the U.S Dollar as compensation. Think about that for a moment. On average 40 hours of your Blood, Sweat, and Tears to receive compensation paid in the amount of U.S. Dollars and at minimum the U.S. Dollar is being devalued at a rate of 2% per year. This calculates the U.S Dollar will lose 20% of its purchasing power in a 10-year period of time! THIS IS ALARMING.
Former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan made the statements.
Quotes: “In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value.” …
“The Fed is a Privately Held Agency; Completely Independent of U.S. Government-no other agency of government can overrule its actions.”
The debt crisis is global. The Central Banks are the problem as they control it all. They want to push the world to digital currency where they can have total control/surveillance/manipulation over the populace. Fairness, stability and general well being of humanity are the last things on their minds. The financial system is in the process of being weaponized, not that it hasn't been somewhat already.
Check out Greg Mannarino, the Robinhood of Wall Street.
Beginning at 7:00 mark:
https://www.brighteon.com/d244f7d9-9fe1-4dd4-97e9-cd59ba126567
insofar as a genuine dispute of material fact remains on the fact of harm on the theory that plaintiff s’ shares lost of much of their value, and in all other respects
Seen a vid from monday morning how D.C. is empty. No employees working any of the buildings.. kinda eery..
I will believe it when I see it..don’t trust him.
The judicial system appears to still be aligned to the party that came up with the 3rd amendment sweep and the party that wants to keep them in c-ship.
“He wants revenge for the Gov lying to him in his court room..”
It’s sounding more like that everyday! Hence why I believe Judge Lambert has ruled in summary judgment the way he did .
He wants revenge for the Gov lying to him in his court room and to make the judgment by trail Iron Clad so making it very hard for Gov to appeal.
If this is 1 of only 1 option at the moment for loss damages then so be it but it’s going to have to have some sort of $$$ attached to show how much shareholders lost
If our economy fails, so does China
If our economy fails, so does China
Let’s hope none of the predicted and loved doom and gloom comes true.
RATS leaving the sinking ship. All designed, pre-planned and intentional, BTW. 2008 WAS the wake-up call. Nobody listened. Too little too late? Sure seems like it. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to have seen all this, just a half awake casual observer. F&F shareholders were blessed to have had a special ring-side seat to all of this.
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=169980364
Lost dividends are gone. Pre 2012 is gone.
You have to find a mechanism to quantify damages.
Damages to the investor are via share price.
Given that any chance of a payout for damages resulting in lost dividends is now $0, or is it???. One must ask about price damages pre August 2012, the performance of both JPS and commons with some $285 billion given to the Gov.
So do JPS just get 100% par? + 10 years of loss dividends based on the legal contract they hold with the GSE?
Do commons also hold the same?
One could argue that the share price has suffered because of lost dividends!!! There BIG damages there!!!
So what exactly is the remedy available if rescission and restitution are barred as to plaintiffs proposed remedy?
I got some ideas about what the remedy would look like. Take a look at why the stock prices are going down.
I agree 100%. Anyone thinking it’s ok for government to take your investment are not a shareholder or from a socialist country.
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=170057069
I say treble damages. Call it 600B even. Maybe Civi cases for pain and suffering and lying for 14 years. How about 10mil per shareholder?
I want it to be so painful they won’t do it to anyone again.
I remember some dope saying it was only a couple bucks per share loss or some insanely small amount He must be government employee.
Ps hate and discontent to the end of this year I’m guessing. Commons to 30? We see.
Most negativity towards commons is more illegal activity. Which seems to not apply to preferred owners. They think par and divs is only thing.
From other board:
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=170041062
Mr. Howard said
Quote: "First, Treasury and FHFA must agree to cancel the net worth sweep, and eliminate Treasury’s liquidation preference. Fannie and Freddie already have repaid their senior preferred stock, with 10 percent interest. And Treasury should not require that the companies’ senior preferred be converted to common. To do so would be to require them to repay their indebtedness to Treasury twice, which is unjustifiable, and blatantly unfair. Without the senior preferred, Fannie and Freddie’s combined March 31, 2022 capital shortfall of $441 billion would be cut to $248 billion, or by 44 percent." End of Quote.
https://howardonmortgagefinance.com/2022/05/23/a-capital-reality-check/
If the Treasury required the companies to convert the senior preferred to common stock the contract would have to be voided the way it is written.
FOURTH AMENDED AND RESTATED CERTIFICATE OF DESIGNATION OF TERMS OF VARIABLE LIQUIDATION PREFERENCE SENIOR PREFERRED STOCK, SERIES 2008-2
FACT: The Senior Preferred Stock cannot be converted to common stock.
No 6 and No 7
Quote “No Conversion or Exchange Rights
The holders of shares of the Senior Preferred Stock shall not have any right to convert such shares into or exchange such shares for any other class or series of stock or obligations of the Company.
No Preemptive Rights
No holder of the Senior Preferred Stock shall as such holder have any preemptive right to purchase or subscribe for any other shares, rights, options or other securities of any class of the Company which at any time may be sold or offered for sale by the Company.” End of Quote
https://www.fhfa.gov/Conservatorship/Documents/Senior-Preferred-Stock-Agree/FNM/SPSPA-amends/FNM-Fourth-Amended-Restated-Certificate-04-13-21.pdf
Makes sense to anyone not against commons
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=169996323
Current Market valuations are 28 PE ratio on average, much higher than anyone calculating PEs for GSEs, double some calcs at 14. even conservatively it could be $50 with dilution. When earnings get weaker this fall, and they will, GSEs can make out better than anytime in the next 2 years.
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=170025430
u might ask that would mean commons are worth Par or above compared to many Ps? exactly.
IF we can get the Treasuries grubby hands off the GSEs and end conserve with conditions that satisfy congressional criticism, all systems go. But we first have to get Congress to be incapable of stealing money for pet projects, which current court cases can and may take care of. that puts and end to rubbernecks abuse.
Hearing rumblings US may default on its debt come 30 Sept. Two week extension puts us at 14 Oct. Things will get pretty dicey if that happens. Apparently the BILLIONS sent to Ukraine was higher priority. Heard ole Joe was on the phone with Xi Jinping pleading for mercy. GLWT! Likely to have impact on damage awards, if any, IMO. The timing is just too incredible.
Original intent for relationship between rulers and the people and how it got corrupted:
* * *
For those readers who are more religiously minded, you might ask, What does the Bible say about the proper role between rulers and the people?
You might be surprised to learn that one of the earliest books of the Bible, the Book of Samuel, takes a very dim view of rulers, especially kings.
The Book of Samuel takes place after the Jews have fled Egypt in the Exodus and reestablished themselves in Israel. At this time, Israel had no king but instead had judges who would settle issues brought before them. This period was known as the Age of Judges and lasted about a century.
In his old age Samuel appointed his sons judges over Israel. His first-born was named Joel, his second son, Abijah; they judged at Beer-sheba. His sons did not follow his example but sought illicit gain and accepted bribes, perverting justice. Therefore, all the elders of Israel came in a body to Samuel at Ramah and said to him, “Now that you are old, and your sons do not follow your example, appoint a king over us, as other nations have, to judge us.”
Samuel was displeased when they asked for a king to judge them. He prayed to the Lord, however, who said in answer, “Grant the people’s every request. It is not you they reject, they are rejecting me as their king. As they have treated me constantly from the day I brought them from Egypt to this day, deserting me and worshipping strange gods, so do they treat you too. Now grant their request; but at the same time, warn them solemnly and inform them of the rights of the king who will rule over them.”
Samuel delivered the message of the Lord in full to those who were asking him for a king. He told them: “The rights of the king who will rule you will be as follows: He will take your sons and assign them to his chariots and horses, and they will run before his chariot. He will also appoint from among them his commanders of groups of a thousand and of a hundred soldiers. He will set them to do his plowing and harvesting, and to make his implements of war and the equipment of his chariots.
“He will use your daughters as ointment-makers, as cooks, and as bakers. He will take the best of your fields, vineyards, and olive groves, and give them to his officials. He will tithe your crops and your vineyards, and give the revenue to his eunuchs and his slaves. He will take your male and female servants, as well as your best oxen and asses, and use them to do his work. He will tithe your flocks and you yourselves will become his slaves. When this takes place, you will complain against the king whom you have chosen, but on that day the Lord will not answer you.” 1
A person might be forgiven if he comes to the conclusion that God was the original insurrectionist. However, the correct interpretation is that God was suspicious from the beginning that having a king, or any ruler, was a good idea. His preference was that the people kept Him in their hearts, and thus would not need any rulers.
When one uses the frame of the Samuel story, it becomes clear why many believe the United States to be a divinely ordained nation. Our founding documents clearly place the people as the true masters of our country, if only we act like it. The rulers serve the people, not the other way around. The more power is given to the people, the more God’s will is accomplished. People who demand more freedom are working in God’s interest, because they trust themselves to hear God’s voice. The faithful are not fearful of the world around them. If you find a person filled with fear, then God is not with them.
The premise of this book is that the battle we are fighting against the Great Reset is nothing more than an ancient battle between the forces of freedom and tyranny. And yet, the critical piece of this fight is not found with those who are publicly advocating for our historic freedoms, or among those advocating for greater governmental control of your life.
The battle is won or lost by you, the public, deciding whether you want freedom over your life and decisions or more governmental control.
Choose wisely.
* * *
I think it might. Scotus screwed it up though.
you think this is not going to trial?
It is the clerk that docketed it but I don't think lamberth has written his opinion on dismissal or made up his mind. Court calendars change all the time. Although it may be a clue that he is not going to dismiss he would likely formally rule on that after pretrial conference and all motions have been submitted. I would estimate the last week of Sept or first week of Oct is when the formal ruling on motion to dismiss will come out.
Isnt this a big deal? Would Lamberth dismiss the case if he actually scheduled the courtroom? Doesn't this mean we are going to trial?
Thanks to Hvp123:
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=169955047
The plaintiff lawyers have limited witnesses. They could have done a much better job.
Why MC keeps talking about housing is beyond me. he completely failed to conserve anything other than theft and free money for treasury at the last minute. put him on the stand.
I’m glad Hamish Hume and Co has asked the judge to have the jury fill out a forM stating certain things like : do you or have you worked for the federal
government??
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