Foliofn

[lentinman]

AIMster:

Here is one link to his performance.

http://www.booyahboyaudit.com/A-C.html

Len

[AIMster]

Interesting results if you Google "Foliofn Cramer" (without the quotes). Turns out there seems to be some sort of Foliofn account arrangement where you can follow the trading ideas of Jim Cramer of "Mad Money" (formerly of Kudlow & Cramer) both on CNBC in a Foliofn folio. The small detail is that you have to subscribe to Cramer's recommendations at about $400/year. Not sure if following this particular "guru" will lead one to the Nirvana of ultimate riches, but it does offer another choice - particularly after offering additional pairings with Reuters selection options as well. Amazing what you can do when you get premium services.

Best,

AIMster

[AIMster]

One of the things I plan on doing is AIMing some stocks in one of the Folios, about just like you described, but at more than $100 each and not 50 stocks to start it out -- around 20 to start with along with some ETFs.

Another option is to use one (or more) of FolioFN's predefined folios and either AIM the whole thing or each holding within the folio individually or some combination thereof. They offer quite a listing from following well-known indexes, such as the Dow Jones, to variations (Dogs and/or Cats of the Dow) as well as generalized by market cap, foreign, broad domestic, social issue. and even some almost zany such as Beer, Wine & Spirits or Golf.

AIMster

[AIMster]

One of the things I plan on doing is AIMing some stocks in one of the Folios, about just like you described, but at more than $100 each and not 50 stocks to start it out -- around 20 to start with along with some ETFs.

That makes perfect sense. Mine was an extreme example for illustration purposes of what one could do using Foliofn starting out with $10,000. Indeed, a folio can contain from 1-50 stocks/funds. How you choose to see them, as individual items or AIMing a the whole folio as a unit is also your call. Flexibility, that's the key.

Best,

AIMster

[WTMHouston]

One of the things I plan on doing is AIMing some stocks in one of the Folios, about just like you described, but at more than $100 each and not 50 stocks to start it out -- around 20 to start with along with some ETFs. It makes it easier to get into a new stock when you can do it for a few hundred dollars rather than having to have thousands or more for each one to not get killed on commissions.

Flexibility and diversification never hurt.

[AIMster]

I've been thinking that Foliofn would be an ideal place for people interested in setting up LD-AIM (low-down AIM) programs. Indeed one could have up to 150 micro programs running at the same time if you wanted to. As there is no minimum investment, even using Lichello's "classic" ratio of 50/50 for $10,000 one could set up a folio of 50 stocks/funds at $100 each and keep the other $5000 for cash reserve. Now, granted, the dollar amount on each sell would likely be bupkis, at least as you're first starting out. Over time, though, this may be a way to get some sizable holdings, especially if you've got stocks and funds selected that work best under AIM.

Or, if this seems too much over the top, I think Foliofn could be used, either as single stocks in a folio, or in a folio as a whole for a TWINVEST program.

Just some thoughts.

AIMster

[lentinman]

AIM:

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

Len

[AIMster]

Essentially, there is no such thing as a limit trade within the window - right?

Not so much. One can exercise some degree of control by setting a percentage amount so if the stock moves against you by X% or greater the sale will cancel, but in the Window environment you can't set a GTC type order or 'strike price' type arrangement.

One would presume that the more liquid a stock is, the tighter the spread between bid and ask (on average). So, that to the degree that you opt for the smallest of the 4,000 (or so) stocks, the less probability you will match up orders AND the higher the probability you will pay (or sell at) market. If the spread is higher on those types of stocks (on average), then you might conclude that you will be hurt on the spread most (if not nearly all) the time.

That is likely correct. Still I'm not sure what the greatest spread on the 'universe' that they have is. Not sure how you'd find that easily either.. interesting thought!

I think Foliofn's target audience is the 'regular Joe' who's got a little grubstake of a few thousand and wants to have more control over his investments rather than going off on 'blind faith' that the mutual fund he might have otherwise selected will do better. Daunted by the high costs of trading at a regular brokerage, Foliofn levels the playing field a bit, giving access to investment strategies that would otherwise be out of this guy's league. But, in so doing they can't be all things to all people. In your case of being a "microcapper" Foliofn would not be the place for that sort of investing. I've seen software for momentum trades that look for stocks in the <=$10 range - most of these are not in the Foliofn "universe."

I hope you find a place that excels in that sort of market. Let us know what you find out in that regard as the two may complement each other, since they're both in quite separate leagues.

Best,

AIMster

[lentinman]

AIM:

Thanks for the information. Essentially, there is no such thing as a limit trade within the window - right? One would presume that the more liquid a stock is, the tighter the spread between bid and ask (on average). So, that to the degree that you opt for the smallest of the 4,000 (or so) stocks, the less probability you will match up orders AND the higher the probability you will pay (or sell at) market. If the spread is higher on those types of stocks (on average), then you might conclude that you will be hurt on the spread most (if not nearly all) the time.

I'm a small capper. But, even more so, I'm a microcapper. So, the use of the window appears limited to me.

Len

[AIMster]

If I understand correctly, you are saying that the trades only take place twice a day during windows. For an active trader (and that is presumably EXACTLY who they are trying to appeal to), I would think that would be a big negative. Being able to buy at specific times when a stock looks appealing is important - especially on small or micro caps that have spreads of 10% and wild variations. And, how do they handle the spread issue?

Good questions. Foliofn offers two classes of trades, both window and market. Market trades are executed in real time (during market hours) and at cost if you don't get x amount free. The spread issue is whatever's going on in the market at the time the order's placed. This is similar to what happens at any other brokerage.

Window trades, on the other hand are their strength. What they do with these is combine orders internally between users of their service, only going to market if there is excess beyond what won't be filled internally. In other words if I'm selling 100 shares IBM, for example, and someone else wants to buy 100 shares, this order would never see the market and would get a better spread than the market spread as the whole process is internally resolved. On the other hand, if I'm selling 1,000 shares IBM and someone only wants 100 in that same window, the other 900 will be sold on the market and I'd get effectively the two spreads (100 internal, 900 market) combined.

The downside of the window trade is that you don't know the exact fill price you're going to get. Further, quotes on Foliofn's pages are under a 20 minute delay. I've gotten around that using the Medved Quote Tracker, giving me, in essence a window "20 minutes into the future." So I see if a trend is continuing as the window closes - I'll let the trade continue - sometimes I've yanked a trade out of the way beforehand. In balance I'd say overall the trades balance out and that I get a trade most of the time that's favorable.

AIMster

[AIMster]

I mainly trade the pennies and have foud the MicroCapTrade is an absoulte gem when it comes to pink/otcbb streams. Golden.
With Choicetrade, I would just be looking for a place to quickly and reliably execute orders at a low cost. Sounds like Choicetrade is good for this purpose, no?

Could be. That is another limitation of Foliofn is that they have a "universe" of some 3000 or so stocks, bonds, closed-end and ETF funds for trading - now some mututal funds too but I haven't looked at those much.

So, if you're looking to trade pink sheet or very-small to micro-cap stocks, Foliofn is likely not the best choice.

AIMster

[AIMster]

one could hold 150 different stocks, execute over 7200 trades in those stocks (4000 of them), have 120 free market trades (10 free a month) in stocks outside of their window stocks, and make additional trades at only $4 each.

True. However, in practice I usually don't make more than 60-80 trades per month (but then I don't have the full-blown 150 stocks/funds either (at least not yet!)). If you're comparison shopping, you need to determine the breakeven point. For example, if Foliofn's costing you say $29.99 per month (not sure of actual going rate so bear with me) and you can get Scottrade's at $7 each, for example, after the 4th trade Foliofn becomes more and more economical. Now AIM may reduce the number of trades you're making, especially if you're AIMing a whole folio rather than the individual components in that folio, so you'd still need to see if this cost structure works for you - but I'd think in most cases that it will.

AIMster

[AIMster]

It appears to be something like sharebuilder.

Foliofn's kicked a few notches above Sharebuilder. SB offers only weekly trading windows whereas Foliofn offers twice-daily windows. I've not compared costs directly but I believe Foliofn a better choice, if for no other reason than you've got more control over buying-and-selling.

AIMster

[AIMster]

I keep wondering where the catch is. I know that this is not a day trading account, but for long term buy and holds...

No catch that I've seen yet in the 4+ years of being a user of their service. I also like the fact that they let you start off with no minimum amount and no minimum transaction size. It is also possible to set up electronic-funds-transfer on a schedule you determine so that if you want to 'pay yourself first' and make additional ongoing investments from your checking account, this is quite doable. Note, however, that four years ago you had a lot more control in setting these up. In the post 9/11 world they now require such transfer requests to come directly from your bank, so the tradeoff is a bit less convenience versus better security. In this case I think it worthwhile. The couple of infrequent times I've seen something unusual on the account, these concerns have been quickly fixed by their customer service people.

Whilst 'buy-and-hold' is the emphasis, certainly 'swing' trading over days and weeks is an acceptable policy as well. Also, whilst you can do exact dollar amount trading, via fractional shares, you can also trade in whole shares as well. This I've started using as keeping track of the fractional shares was a lot of extra work.

Any more questions feel free to ask.

Best,

AIMster

[WTMHouston]

Cross posted from another Board....

<<Could you help me out here and provide me with an example or examples of who would benefit from these window trades?>>

Absolutely and I'll use me and some of my investment money as an example. Some of my investment money is allocated as a fixed amount of money every month to a variety of direct stock purchases and mutual funds. Most of the DIPs and DRIPs have fixed fee schedules, although some are fee free, which make minimum monthly purchases a necessity in order for the fee to not disproportionately eat up the stock purchase. Those purchases get made by the company on its predetermined day and with no control by me over the timing or price. But, because of a desire to spread the money over a variety of stocks, each individual purchase is smaller than would be practical for a regular trade. Each purchase buys anywhere from a fraction of a share to several shares, obviously depending on the stock's price relative to the amount invested. For the most part, this is money that I am happy to let sit for years if not decades (although the decades time frame just barely qualifies as true anymore).

But, the universe of stocks that are available for purchase with this money is far more limited than I would like and I would like to be able to diversify this money further. I would also rather invest it directly in stocks or ETFs than in mutual funds. I would also like the ability to sell without having to go through the hassle and cost required by most DIPs and DRIPs. I would also like the ability to have some timing (even if it is not perfect) available to me with these stocks. I would also like the flexibility to choose from day-to-day, week-to-week or month-to-month to change the allocation between these stocks. Folio-fn will let me do this on the fly rather than having to deal, individually, with a lot of different companies. It saves me time and gives me greater flexibility.

If all there was to the Folio-fn program was the window trades, then it would not be worth anything near what they charge for it -- at least at the $399 annual level. But, at least for me, the window trades provide an alternative to fixed monthly deposits to a variety of DIPs, DRIPs, and mutual funds with far greater flexibility and diversification. Plus, by having 10 free regular trades (outside of the window stocks and trading) available a month for no charge and additional trades for $4, I am able to get out of any position at any time if I choose to do so -- even if the stock was bought through a window trade. Thus, if the proverbial bottom fell out (like ABRX, which I fortunately did not own), I can trade every share I own (at least the full shares) through a regular trade and not have to wait for the next window trading opportunity. The same is true on the buying end: if I see a drop as an immediate buying opportunity, I can buy it through a regular trade even if all of my other trades in it were window trades.

I agree that Folio-fn's window trades are not appropriate for someone actively or day trading stocks because they do not provide the flexibility needed to buy and sell immediately. But, I do not day trade (at least not 98% of the time since I learned years ago that I generally suck at day trading). I also agree that Folio-fn's window trading program is not appropriate for someone wanting to trade stocks that fall outside of their group of window stocks (which would include most penny stocks) -- unless the person is making at least 10 trades a month each and every month (which still works out to about $3.33 a trade in commissions).

For my trading money (and it is limited position trading), the available regular trades (10 a month, 120 a year) are more than sufficient to satisfy my needs, and even on the few occasions a year when they may not be, the $4 trade price is still a good deal.

At least for me, this is not just about saving commission money (although it will save me some). It is about diversification and greater flexibility than I now have with some of my investment money.

Finally, I can make no comment, yet, about the quality of their fills on regular trades since I have not experienced it. They could suck or they could be as good as most if not all others. I will agree that there is little more frustrating that wanting a fill NOW (within seconds) and not having it happen as a price moves against you. Been there, done that.

I am in the process of opening an account and moving funds into it. If the fills on regular trades are terrible, I will happily say so. For this reason, as well, I am not yet closing my other brokerage account where the commissions are higher, but the fills are very good.

[WTMHouston]

<<Do you happen to know if these regular trades can be done limit GTC and whether or not they will trade OTC's?>>

I do not know right now, but since I am going to fund an account, I will let you know.

[lentinman]

Troy:

I see now. The $399 gets you 120 trades. So you pay $3.33 per trade versus $5.00. That's interesting, but it requires that you use up your trades each month to get that price, but even then, you only pay $4.00 after that.

Do you happen to know if these regular trades can be done limit GTC and whether or not they will trade OTC's?

Len

[WTMHouston]

I understand that their window trades program may not fit everyone's trading needs or styles, which, I suppose, is also why there are so many different brokerage houses floating around with many catering to niche segments.

I had not closely looked at the 4600 stocks included in the window group, but suspected that many small companies (particularly BB and pink sheet stocks) were likely not on the list. Your review in that regard certainly does not surprise me.

That said, Folio-fn also functions as a regular brokerage house. The difference between the $299 and the $399 level, aside from the extra window trades, is 10 regular trades (market, limit, etc.) a month, which works out to about $3.33 each over the course of a year. Additional regular trades are $3.95. Thus, even aside from and not considering the fractional and dollar amount features of the windows trades, the price for regular trading services looks appealing -- assuming that someone does enough trades monthly to justify the flat expense. By the same token, I also understand that for 100-200 trades a year, the $1 difference is probably not worth the hassle of moving an account: that threshold will be different for everyone. For someone for whom the window trades and the diversification it offers is the primary appeal, the regular trades are simply a bonus.

To get the 10 free monthly regular trades, one must bump from the $299 to the $399 level, of course. The $100 difference there is worth it to me for the 10 free trades a month -- 120 a year, especially if I get into active AIMing a variety of stocks. It basically takes commissions out of the equation in trading.

Thanks for the review and input. The more perspectives I get on this (and I was very happy to have found a couple of people who use them and are satisfied -- no complaints from anyone so far, which is also unusual), the more confidence I have in making an informed decision.

I am about 90 percent certain that I am going to give them a shot and see how it works out.

[lentinman]

Troy:

It looks like very few (almost none, actually) of the 4600 stocks are the ones I'm invested in or interested in being invested in. As a microcap investor (or trader), I realize why they can't include them in the 4600. Last I heard there were about 14,000 stocks.

Also, the window part of it is troubling. I put in lowball limit orders and let the price come to me. I don't see that as an option here. It looks like some kind of mix between bid and ask and market. You order, it goes today. End of story.

The $4 is better than $5 - assuming they even trade BB's. I'm paying $5 with Izone (Ameritrade), but the difference is sure not enough to change - especially if I'm not even taking advantage of the free trading.

BTW: On their web-site, they say it is $300 for the 400 free trades, better than $400, but still $300 too much for me. Thanks for the idea.

Len

[Train Guy]

No, I hadn't read that about the records, but it makes sense. It gives you the info you need so you can try and minimize any tax consequences and the tools to execute the trades so it meets the IRS requirements.

My brother was the CFO before he became the president and he said they would keep an eye on what everybody was doing in their 401k's but it was rare that anybody ever changed anything. I asked my next door neighbor about it and she claimed she never even bothered to open her statements. That's what makes Foliofn so good besides the pricing is the preselected folios. The returns on some of those Reuters ones are quite good.

This excerpt from the about us pretty much says it all. They're not in it just for the money. They are actually trying to help the little guys. Hey, you being an "insider" since you know about this kind of stuff, you could be a guinea pig and sign up. Then you could give everybody else the first hand scoop on it. I've also suggested in the past that somebody should setup a board to rummage through those reuters screens looking for swing traders, but nobody has taken up the cause. Being a daytrader and leaning more towards futures it's not my cup of tea.

-----------------------
The need to make it easier for the small investor to enjoy the advantages of a diversified portfolio that wealthy investors have always had.

The need to reduce the drain on investment profits by management fees, sales commissions, and capital gains taxes.

The need for more control over the securities their money was being invested in, something denied investors by ownership in mutual funds shares.

He left the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to develop a new way to satisfy those needs -- an online brokerage which would enable people to invest in their choice of a number of diversified baskets of securities called Folios, instead of buying into a mutual fund. And to invest and monitor their investments in a way never before possible in the pre-cyberspace age.

OUR COMPANY
FOLIOfn is based in the Washington D.C. suburb of Tysons Corner, Virginia - in the heart of the Northern Virginia high-technology corridor. Our Management Team and Board of Directors come from highly respected financial and technology organizations and government agencies.

OUR VALUES
We have built our company around three core values: We will provide investors with leading-edge innovation, offering better ways to invest made possible by the power of technology. We will act with the highest possible integrity and openness. No matter what the issue, we will always do our best to provide full disclosure and eliminate jargon and legalese. We are committed to educating investors and helping them make better investment decisions.

http://www.foliofn.com/content/retailcontent/about_basic.shtml

[WTMHouston]

Thanks for the info.

I read on their site that they maintain detailed CG records that are downloadable, which is an attractive function to me -- especially being able to manually configure lots for sales. If I can drop it into the Quicken, it makes the accountant a lot happier.

Based on what you wrote, I suspect not, but have you seen this element of their service?

I agree that it would be very nice for the 401k, but even though I am the trustee for our 401k, we are locked into a long term agreement elsewhere -- so, for now, it is not a possibility. Besides, even though it might be nice for me, it would probably not pass the prudence test for most other folks in our plan -- they are not a very financially savvy lot. Even choosing mutual funds, quantity and quality, is a daunting task for most of them.

[Train Guy]

I see you're looking for info on Foliofn. I've recommended it before. I stumbled across it like you through Reuters. You've seen the about us, and you don't get much better than an ex SEC commissioner. It's on the up and up. Marc Gerstien from over there at Reuters has been in the biz for a good long while and wouldn't have teamed up with Foliofn if it wasn't a class act. From what I've been able to tell, it is what it appears to be.

The reason it's so inexpensive is because they aggregate all the trades. Those they can do in house as book keeping entries don't cost them anything. Those they have to go out to the market for, they consolidate into one trade (if 20 people want a particular stock, that becomes one trade) and then it's just book keeping on who gets what. And it's also why they can do fractional shares and let you trade by dollar amounts. Most of it is just book keeping to them and doesn't cost them anything. They are just nice enough to pass the cost savings on to you.

No it's not for daytraders. That's not the purpose of it. It's for people with IRAs that want to be able to inexpensively diversify. Or for swing traders that don't need to get exact prices. For what you want to use it for, it looks most excellent.

No, I haven't used it. I'm a daytrader that is taking a break for a few months. So it's not for me. I like IB since mostly I trade the futures. I did recommend it to my brother who is the president of a fortune 500 for their 401K plan. Haven't heard back if he looked into it or not. To have something like Foliofn in your 401K would be way cool!!

[WTMHouston]

Finally found someone who uses them:

#msg-6455881

[WTMHouston]

Len:

I did not envision that this platform would be beneficial for day traders -- although $4 a trade is still a pretty darn good rate. Rather, it seems like a way to self diversify into 50-150 different stocks and to have the ability to trade each of them several times a month, whether for money management purposes or through increased investment money availability (dollar cost averaging) without getting killed on commissions.

For example, let's say someone has a $40K stake to invest (and I use that number simply because the $400 annual fee for up to 3 "portfolios" of up to 50 stocks each is 1% of the $40K). Let's also say that they want to add to this at the rate of $1K a month. Obviously spreading $1K over even 100 stocks ($10 each) in two to four separate purchases a month (200 to 400 trades -- 300 to 600 trades at 150 stocks) could add up to some hefty commissions in the regular brokerage context and would be cost prohibitive. This program, it seems, allows that to be accomplished for now more than the $400 annual fee.

Historically, a small investors only way to significantly or meaningfully diversify was through mutual funds managed by others at whatever load and expense ratio they happened to charge or incur. This allows the regular (small) investor to essentially put together their own mutual funds -- but to own the stocks directly. It allows them to own only the stocks within a basket (say the Dow 30) that they want to own without having to own the ones they do not want to own.

They seem to have two categories of stocks -- those they call window stocks (4000 of them, which are probably the 4000 most actively traded stocks) and all others. Only the 4000 window stocks may be traded within or are limited to the program's included 600 trade per month cap. These stocks are traded twice a day (11:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m., if I recall correctly). They trade at either a split of the bid-ask at that time or at the market price at that time (if they have buyers and sellers within the system for the same stock it trades at the midpoint of the bid-ask spread at that moment -- if there are not buyers and sellers within the system (something I would not count on), the rest trade at the market.

Stocks outside of the window stocks trade like normal stock trades. Trading in the windows does not prohibit trading at any time with traditional market orders. The $400 a year program also includes 10 free market, limit, etc., trades a month and then the excess at $3.95 each. For most people, who are not day traders, this quantity should be more than sufficient for larger block trades. I will admit that it may not be for actively trading thinly traded BB or pink sheet stocks, with which I have little experience, but regular trades are regular trades and massive spreads are still massive spreads regardless of who the broker is. Even for active day traders, the average trade cost will still be less than $4 a trade.

As far as the company, they have SIPC coverage as well as excess coverage -- $9.5M if I recall correctly. The CEO is Steve Wallman, a former SEC commissioner. More on it here: http://www.foliofn.com/content/retailcontent/about_basic.shtml

I found them as a result of a marketing partnership (my characterization) they have with Reuters.

Here are a couple of recognition items:

Money
Money Tech 2000, Heroes: 10 Unsung Champions of E-finance
October 2000
FOLIOfn Founder and CEO Steve Wallman is named to Money Magazine's list of 10 unsung leaders in the world of E-finance. "Says Wallman: 'We want people to rethink the way they invest.'"

Fortune Small Business
25 Hot New Companies
May 2000
FOLIOfn is named to Fortune Small Business' annual list of 25 companies with breakthrough products, services, and technologies.
"Wallman has the vision thing ('We want to change the investing world,' he says) and several additional online products in the works. Move over, Mr. Schwab."

More at this link: http://www.foliofn.com/content/press/press_awards.shtml

They have an impressive list of business partners and investors (including Advent and American Century):
http://www.foliofn.com/content/retailcontent/about_partner.shtml

The one thing I am not worried about is the security of my money -- unless I have missed something.

The attraction for me is the ability the self diversify without incurring massive commission costs. I know of no one else who does this.

[lentinman]

Troy:

If I understand correctly, you are saying that the trades only take place twice a day during windows. For an active trader (and that is presumably EXACTLY who they are trying to appeal to), I would think that would be a big negative. Being able to buy at specific times when a stock looks appealing is important - especially on small or micro caps that have spreads of 10% and wild variations. And, how do they handle the spread issue?

The other question I would have would be is what is the backing for this company? Let's face it, if you go putting your life savings into a brokerage, you want to be more than 100% sure there is ZERO chance that anything could happen.

Len

[Juststocks]

yes, quick and i call them if I dont get a trade as fast as it should be, Very good customer service, 6.00 trades plus the normal exchange service charge. do you have access to personal messages?

[hlniv]

I mainly trade the pennies and have foud the MicroCapTrade is an absoulte gem when it comes to pink/otcbb streams. Golden.

With Choicetrade, I would just be looking for a place to quickly and reliably execute orders at a low cost.

Sounds like Choicetrade is good for this purpose, no?

[Juststocks]

I like choicetrade, nice folks, I use medved quote tracker, but choice trade has a platform as well. They are great to work with. Relatively new company, still growing, but I have no complaints.

[hlniv]

What's your experience with Choicetrade? I'm using Ameritrade and looking to switch. I know I can do better than $10.99 commissions. Ameritrade has a great service, just there's no point in having 90% of that servi.ce when all I trade is pinks/otc's on a daily/swing basis.

[Churak]

re AIM...I presume that you know that Tom Veale uses AIM for STKL. Have you touched base with him to see what brokerage firm he uses & if Foliofn may be advantageous?

[WTMHouston]

One of the things that has concerned me in considering AIM (and investing in general for that matter) with individual stocks (as opposed to mutual funds) is the relationship between diversification and commission costs -- especially if the account will be actively monitored and evaluated more frequently. It becomes difficult to diversify in a substantial enough way for there to be meaningful diversification without the commission costs becoming prohibitive in terms of percentage costs. It makes little sense to execute an order when/if the commission costs are several percent of the order value -- the broker ends up making money at our expense.

I think this may be a solution to the dilemma.

For a flat rate of $400 a year, one could hold 150 different stocks, execute over 7200 trades in those stocks (4000 of them), have 120 free market trades (10 free a month) in stocks outside of their window stocks, and make additional trades at only $4 each. Total commission costs for an actively managed and traded portfolio of at least $40K would be 1% or less annually. (They also have lower cost options (starting at $200 as I recall) for fewer stocks and trades). Even a small $500 order in a single stock if one had to pay the $4 would produce a commission cost of less than 1%.

The fee and trading structure on this almost seems to good to be true, which frequently means that it probably is. I am very open and receptive to looking at what I have missed and why this is not as good a deal as it appears.

The one weakness is the inability on window trades to know precisely what price you will get either way since those orders are processed only twice a day, but this is offset by the ability to modify or change the order at any time until the window closes just before the trade time. If you happen to be seeking a trade on a day where the market is moving quickly on a stock, and are not around to look at the price movement as it is happening, you could end up with a much different price than you expected. There are some percentage safety controls for this in their system, and they may be user configurable, but I do not remember what they are off the top of my head.

[WTMHouston]

I agree that it has some of the features of sharebuilder, but this seems to cost MUCH less and also seems to be far more powerful in terms of screening tools, tax planning (it lets you designate lots for sales), keeping track of the CG consequences of trades (and making it available to download in an importable format), and the ability to modify and customize all of the prepackaged options.

I have no dog in the hunt over who uses who (and really don't care), but I have not seen anything before that combines tools the way this seems to do so.

I have not pulled the trigger yet, but am inclined to do so. I just keep waiting to figure out what the gotcha is -- since things that look to good to be true usually are.

[Juststocks]

It appears to be something like sharebuilder. I personally am waiting to see what Matt brings to the table. I am using choice trade at the moment

[Churak]

Ok...just so you know, AMERITRADE recently stopped FREETRADES.COM cause it was simply not cost efficient. I'm surprised no one has mentioned FOLIO before. Just so you know, MATTY has recently become involved with a new brokerage firm OC Securities. Pricing has not been revealed yet but it is supposed to be competitive with current on line offers. One of the cheapest brokers that I have come across is Interactive Brokers. EXTREMELY CHEAP. International in focus as Canadians, Americans, Germans etc can open up accounts with them...one of the few such companies I have encountered.

[WTMHouston]

I know no one who has used them.

I was looking at the Gold package, which for $400 a year would get me the ability to hold 150 different stocks and make 600 trades a month (7200 a year) in those stocks (in dollar amounts -- fractional shares instead of larger lots of shares). It would also then get me 10 free market/limit orders a month and then extra trades at $3.95 each. The base annual cost would be less than one percent.

It does not appear to have some of the bells and whistles for exotic trades, but I would not need those for this account -- this would be long term money.

http://www.foliofn.com/content/retailcontent/investorlanding/price_comp.shtml

[Churak]

if you go to the pricing, it seems expensive compared to AMERITRADE I think. 9.95/trade. Their free packages seem to have an expensive per trade charge ie 14.95 & if you pay for a monthly/annual package I wonder what else you get for that price ie pink sheet level II etc. Do you know anyone who has used them & has experience in their executions?

[WTMHouston]

It is unlikely that I will ever post here or anywhere else as frequently as I once did -- too many other things to spend time on.

I am really interested in someone else checking out the Folio fn concept and providing thoughts. While I understand that it has some limits as far as timing and advanced strategies, for basic, long term investing, I have never seen anything that lets someone hold a customized, significantly diversified portfolio (essentially, their personally created mutual fund), with so little cost -- a fraction of one percent annually, which is less than the operating costs of most mutual funds and close to those of most exchange funds.

[fung_derf]

The catch is.....all the price quotes are in Latin.

[Churak]

Don't disappear this time...

[WTMHouston]

This looks like for $400 a year, I can own 150 different stocks in dollar denominated fractional shares and trade them 600 times a month for no additional cost, plus be able to have 10 trades a month in other securities for no additional charge, and finally, if I run out of trades, extra trades cost only $3.95 each.

It also appears that their software wil keep track of the tax consequences and that it can be downloaded an imported into Quicken.

Where has something like this been all of these years.

I keep wondering where the catch is. I know that this is not a day trading account, but for long term buy and holds, I have not seen anything close.