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I had a limit order in at .21 and it filled. Never thought I would see it after earlier today highs. I assume someone wanted out.
I put an order in at 21 cents when it was displaying a .209 ask and the MM immediately moved away from my order and up it went
Don't you just love the pinksheets?
Thanks. can't think of anything for the Ibox at this time. I usually close them and just interested in the messages. I don't know if for the moment that most that can be said about this play has been said and now is time to wait and see what happens. I would imagine that most that are in CITBQ are in for more than a daytrade. I think this one has great potential to run at some point.
My theory on these stocks that fall hard and end up on the pink sheets are a nice potential money maker for the market makers that sponsor them. Letting them sit stagnant makes them little money. These stocks end up be enticing money makers that they can manipulate from time to time to draw in nice profits. Look at the lehman trust preferreds recently. Nice run from about 15 cents to about 90 cents, and now down to about 30-35 cents.
So, even if one thinks these will end up worthless (I don't think they will) there is still potential for a nice run. I would love to see someone put the gov't on the spot and ask them how they are going to protect the taxpayers investment.
The speediness would imply that all preferred owners just sit back and don't get a class action law suit going to fight for their rights. I would be so shocked if FMR just takes it quietly and loses all their 25 percent of the outstanding CIT Preferred Series C stock and that additional about 30 plus million shares of CIT common. What a wreck for them it seems. They have got to do something to get some retribution out of CIT which apparently is not "insolvent" because their liabilities are "not" greater than their assets. This whole thing stinks to no end.
JMHO DYODD
CIT default swaps will be settled by auction-ISDA
Tue Nov 3, 2009 1:47pm EST
NEW YORK, Nov 3 (Reuters) - Credit derivative dealers will settle credit default swaps insuring the debt of CIT Group (CITGQ.PK) in an auction after the commercial lender filed for bankruptcy, the International Swaps and Derivatives Association said on Tuesday.
The auction is expected to be one of the largest since the failure of Lehman Brothers (LEHMQ.PK) due to the large amounts of protection written on CIT's debt, though market participants said the process has been well tested and is unlikely to create market disturbances.
Around $3.1 billion in net volumes is outstanding in single name protection on CIT's debt, according to data by the Depository Trust & Clearing Corp. In addition, CIT was included in a number of tranche trades based on CDS indexes and was a common credit in Collateralized Debt Obligations.
The auction will set a value for the CDSs, which will be used to close out positions.
CIT, a lender to hundreds of thousands of small and medium-sized businesses, filed for bankruptcy on Sunday, as the global financial crisis left it unable to fund itself and the recession clobbered its loans.
A date for the auction has not been set. CDSs are used to protect against a borrower defaulting on their debt or to speculate on their credit quality.
Let me know if you want to see something in the iBox, Joe.
And if you'd rather put it there yourself, speak up.
Generic, Happy to see the new board management. Thanks.
New sheriff in town: This isn't a Yahoo Finance message board. If you want to attack other users, take it anywhere but iHub.
Dicuss the stock. Period. If you think somebody is not making a good investment or trading decision, beat your wife, cat or pillow with that sentiment, not another iHubber.
This may be a virtual world, but it's my virtual living room now, and I don't put up with stupid, careless drunks hurling insults at others in my living room. Ever.
Other than that, have a nice day!
I am moving to this board
everyone keeps posting the same things on the CIT board
from Dallas Dirt Real Estate Blog
November 1, 2009
Will CIT’s Bankruptcy Filing Affect Dallas Real Estate?
By now you’ve heard that CIT Group has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Taxpayers, who gave the company 2.3 billion last year, will likely not be re-paid. I’m not discounting that, but even worse, CIT is one of the country’s largest lenders to small business and retailers, like Neiman Marcus. Two months prior to the holiday season is not a great time for retailers to lose access to capital. My concern is how this will trickle down: small and mid-size businesses will not be able to fiance short-term surges, which will seriously affect their business models, and commercial real estate may take another bullet. We have seen the effects of the credit crunch in real estate, now we’re going to see it in the retail industry, which is in everybody’s face on a daily basis. Consumer confidence? You see where I’m going with this: we’ve had 60,000 home foreclosure postings this year.
I so do not like being Debbie Downer, truly, but the prognosis isn’t looking too positive. Your thoughts?
Update: Today’s New York Times downplays the disaster scenario I envisioned last night. Apparently this is a pre-packaged, “different kind of bankruptcy” that allows the company to re emerge from court protection by the end of the year, which is a pretty speedy recovery.
posted by Candy Evans | November 1st, 2009 9:18pm | filed under Changing market trends in Real Estate, Real Estate, Wall Street meltdown | 1 Comment »
http://dallasdirt.dmagazine.com/2009/11/01/will-cits-bankruptcy-filing-affect-dallas-real-estate/
CITBQ looking for HOD here...
somewhat assumptive articles were put out presupposing "fact" that all CIT pref and common would be a total loss. That conflicted with what I read on the DJ Wire, which is not on the internet. With the least of the unsecured poised to get 70 cents on the dollar, recovery to all pref and common would be minimal. Of course, "minimal" from this level could result in profit from whatever units or rights may be distributed post-bk.
I'm starting to lose interest in it for now, much is in question this early...
CIT, Filing Statistics, Crusader, Charter: Bankruptcy (Update1)
By Bill Rochelle
Nov. 3 (Bloomberg) -- The prepackaged Chapter 11 filing by CIT Group Inc. left non-bankrupt subsidiaries at risk of being called in default on their own obligations. To prevent an erosion in value and allow subsidiaries to remain outside bankruptcy, CIT is calling on the bankruptcy judge to stop some creditor actions against a leasing subsidiary as though the subsidiary too was in bankruptcy reorganization.
CIT’s efforts won’t go unopposed.
In papers filed soon after the Chapter 11 petition on Nov. 1, CIT sought a temporary restraining order against parties to some railcar leasing transactions of non-bankrupt subsidiary CIT Group/Equipment Financing Inc.
CIT says there are 41 transactions where other parties to the complicated leases could declare a default against the subsidiary. CIT says the actions “would likely destroy the going-concern value of the railcars,” bringing on “the needless loss of up to approximately $680 million of value” in the railcar business.
The parent’s bankruptcy filing was an event of default, theoretically allowing other parties to the leases to take control of the railcars and demand direct payment from the operators of the equipment. Some of the parties also could demand payment of so-called stipulated loss value under the leases, including the value of the equipment and other damages, such as adverse tax consequences.
Some defendants in the suit filed papers yesterday objecting to the scope of the injunction CIT seeks. John Hancock Life Insurance Co., Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Co., and Teachers Insurance & Annuity Association of American called on the bankruptcy judge to insure CIT will pay stipulated loss value for the equipment in December despite an injunction. They also want aircraft to be excluded specifically from the proposed injunction.
Other defendants in the suit include affiliates of Siemens AG, Fifth Third Bancorp, and Wells Fargo & Co. The lawsuit will test whether the bankruptcy judge can or will grant the subsidiary the same relief it would enjoy were it too in Chapter 11.
New York-based CIT, the sixth-largest commercial and industrial lender in the U.S., is also the third-largest in the leasing of railcars and aircraft. It listed assets of $71 billion and debt totaling $64.9 billion in the petition.
The reorganization plan, already accepted by all affected creditor classes, is to reduce debt by $10 billion. The plan provides full payment for some structurally senior noteholders while senior unsecured creditors are projected to have a 94.4 percent recovery from new notes, equaling 70 percent of their existing holding, plus common equity.
Subordinated debt holders are predicted to have a 50 percent recovery by receiving new common equity and contingent value rights.
Junior subordinated creditors are expected to see an 8.1 percent dividend through new equity and contingent value rights. Existing common shareholders receive nothing, while holders of existing preferred equity are to be given contingent value rights.
The case is In re CIT Group Inc., 09-16565, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District New York (Manhattan).
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a7Gm8cp8MzP8#
perpetual preferreds, ok I understand your point.
So you're saying there's only enough assets left to pay the D shares off?
I don't think that's the case, but we shall see.
yes, no quotations, no trading.
"Treasury" meaning what?
that's one way to look at it, but i think Treasury will fare better than A or C, because they loaned the 2.3 bil.
i'm up, may get tired of it and sell. decisions......
25 cents is one penny on the dollar. I'll take 10 cents on the dollar or better lol
yesterday afternoon, DJ Wire reported Treasury Spokeswoman Meg Reilly expected all classes of CIT stock to be cancelled upon emergence from bankruptcy, however mentioned "minimal recovery" for both common and preferred, including theirs, and that the Dept. would be keeping a "watchful eye" on proceedings.
I'm not so sure the A shares are dead. We shall see...
I'm not following CIT now and I've been out of it a while. It was obvious where it was most likely heading. I hope everyone got out in time.
So, CIT-A preferreds are basically a penny on the dollar now... 1/100th of face value at 25 cents.
Is that right?
As a taxpayer, where can I apply political pressure to make sure my tax money is being used toward asset recovery from CIT Group?
Thanks Generic EOM
CIT-A becomes CITBQ tomorrow.
OTCBB, OTHER-OTC AND PORTAL SYSTEM CHANGES
SECURITY ADDITIONS
DL Date Symbol Company Name Effective Date OATS Reportable Flag Comments
11/2/2009 CITBQ CIT Group Inc (DEL) Preferred Series A 11/3/2009 Y From NYSE (C I T $ A)
http://www.otcbb.com/asp/dailylist_search.asp?SearchSymbolForm=TRUE&OTCBB=ALL&searchby=symbol&searchfor=citbq&searchwith=Starting&image1.x=30&image1.y=3
13:10 CITEQ CIT Group Inc (DEL) Equity Units 11/3/2009 Y 100 From NYSE (CI $Z)
13:10 CITGQ CIT Group Inc (DEL) Common Stock 11/3/2009 Y 100 From NYSE (CIT)
13:10 CITBQ CIT Group Inc (DEL) Preferred Series A 11/3/2009 Y 100 From NYSE (CI $A)
13:10 CITDQ CIT Group Inc (DEL) Non Cumulative Perp Pfd Conv Ser C 11/3/2009 Y 100 From NYSE (CI $C)
http://www.otcbb.com/asp/dailylist_detail.asp?d=11/02/2009&mkt_ctg=NON-OTCBB
I know A, C and Government's preferreds have the same order of priority. So one will not be saved over the other.
Z has an undivided interest in bonds.
All will eventually be on the pinks.
It is to be assumed that preferreds and commons will not survive after emergence from BK.
Good luck. I hope you did not put too much in to CIT A.
imo
Citi and CIT Are Primed for Upside,
by Jim Cramer, 9/29/2009, 1:54 PM EDT
Citigroup's on the move, so is CIT . I think that Citigroup will be the biggest beneficiary of the new plan to buy toxic assets, because it is basically running its SIV as discontinued operations and it could benefit from the new program. CIT is about the possible IndyMac link-up courtesy of John Paulson, a real smart guy who was negative about mortgages before it paid to be negative. Dan Freed on CIT CIT Surges on Report of IndyMac Deal I put both of these up there as examples of companies that won't die, and because they won't die, they live. I know that seems a little circular in reasoning, but because Citigroup never suffered a run like Wachovia and Washington Mutual did, it made it and as our flagship site mentioned, it is safe. If it is safe, it can go higher.
Because no one forced CIT into bankruptcy, it can live to play again, and when I read in the New York Post that Paulson owns CIT debt, I realized that he's powerful enough to save this company, particularly because he is one of the investors in IndyMac and knows his way around the bottom of the debt barrel. These two stocks represent lottery tickets that are no longer rip-ups because they have made it out of the "critical care" stage and are recovering.
I would buy them both.
M, i was looking up the pink sheet ticker and the commons are citqp.pk and the b pref is citqo.pk. the cit pref a are still on nyq. you think they will be saved and converted to the new common for cit after turnout? why only pref b on pink and not pref a?
"There will be no BK- trust me."
I hope you did not load up on CIT equity. The CIT Board approved the BK filing.
CIT Obtains Additional $4.5 Billion in Financing
October 28, 2009 01:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time
CIT Obtains Additional $4.5 Billion in Financing Through Expansion of Existing Secured Credit Facility
Addresses Unfunded Financing Proposal from Carl Icahn
NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--CIT Group Inc. (NYSE: CIT), a leading provider of financing to small businesses and middle market companies, today announced that it has expanded its current $3 billion senior secured credit facility by an additional $4.5 billion. The new $4.5 billion tranche, which is being provided by a diverse group of lenders, including many of the Company’s bondholders, will be secured by substantially the same assets as the existing $3 billion tranche and any additional collateral that becomes available as a result of the Company’s refinancing of certain existing secured credit facilities.
“We believe this secured financing will serve the best interests of all stakeholders and will allow us to better position CIT for the future,” said Jeffrey M. Peek, Chairman and CEO. “This expanded credit facility will allow us to continue to serve our existing small business and middle market customers as we advance our restructuring plan.”
Preferred A has no common conversion rights. Preferred C is 3.96 common. A lot is going on here.
My plan is to hold until Thursday, upon which if there is no alternative accepted, I plan to sell before the bondholders can vote on either the prepack bk or the debt swap. If there is a debt swap, value may hold, or even pay off in the long run..
I am in this only for a wild card which could still happen, but I have no illusions...
what is the common conversion rate for preferreds? on the cit message board they said that we would retain 9% value but preferreds would be converted to common. is this true and what does this mean for us?
yes, more needs to occur here in the coming weeks, then we get a new CEO in January.
Preferreds will react to common, they just don't trade much at all when the official market hours are closed, as the common does.
?? Low volume last few days seeing daytrader shorts run values down is discouraging...
Yet recent GS events plus hedge fund plus BAC and Icahn should have seen this stock a lot higher.
Today Germany has CIT commons bought into running it to 1.30 premarket, and Bernanke speak today if I understand him, is changes in all banking and corp operations coming for this new paradigm we are entering after credit crisis, mentions no more corp debt instruments and a push for people to return to investing into common & preferred shares (ownership) of corp stocks like they used to for decades before...
i picked some of this up today.
what are your thoughts on todays news
also looking into classes C and Z.
There will be no BK- trust me.
Do you not find it funny Peek was voted for another 1 year contract last month, then yesterday all of sudden he is resigning in 60 days now?
I and others expect behind scenes bondholders gave him and CIT Board an ultimatum- full blown BK where everyone loses, OR you force Peek to leave ASAP as he was the reason all of this happened in first place to a respectable long time corp tied to millions of US small business people....
And yesterday alone both the CIT-A preferrd and CIT common reboudned a lot of the price decline from the panic selling they endured since pre mkt?? VERY resilient..
ETrade: CIT.PR.A
Very speculative!
Not worth the risk.
In BK, it will be worthless. In a reorg outside BK, almost worthless.
If are going to play the scalp, then good luck. Very thinly traded especially when you have to compete to sell.
IMO, of course.
try CITprA i think etrade lists it different or CITpA
i find it very odd E-trade does not show any info on cit-a as if it does not exsist!!! but cit shows up???
I am now proud owner of CIT-A shares for first time; and as a former CIT common holder who was lucky enough to get out before massive con game was revealed 2 weesk ago on that Friday (around time PIMCO also sold bonds), I had an open order surprisingly filled for CIT-A now... As I am very surprised to see the preferred A's this low and I now am invested into them, so will see what comes between now and Oct 27th...
No matter which way it goes, common seems to be destroyed, and at least, preferred A's will be behind bondholders in worse case scenario; but I do believe this company will survive long term but in what capacity or what manner is anyone's guess as it is apparent there have been lies and manipulation through press in past, and now look at one of the major bondholders (PIMCO) and how they screwed CIT even when they were not to ever sell the very bonds they utilized as collateral for the $3B loan months ago!!!
Yes I will. I'll have it posted before 10:30
hi danbb sorry to post here but r u going to do the live phone call for wamu court september 25
They paid in the past but the future is uncertain. I'm in this one because of the distressed price. $25 face so I'm looking for the PPS jump.
CIT-C has a $50 face.
I have both A's and C's.
Dan...could be stupid question but not familier with City preferred..so are they paying any devident on preferred?If they were paying in the past then do you know how much and when was the last time they paid devident?
TYIA
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Cit Grp. Pfd A (CIT-A)
[chart]www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/CIT%20POR%201.jpg[/chart]
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