Battle of the Boards (fka IH-SI-RB)

[The Original dpb5!]

Portal concerns?

Actually, Matt was making noise recently about doing a revamped homepage. As poor as Matt is at this kind of design, I'm far worse, so the task falls to him.

Actually Bob, becoming a PORTAL is not as painful as you might think. Take a look at YAHOO! It is proclaimed to be the largest portal on the Internet. But what does THAT mean?

Yahoo is, and always HAS BEEN nothing more than a conglomerate of the largest number of links available to a web user on the Internet today.

Big Deal! IHUB could do the same thing.

Why is Yahoo the number one destination on the website? Only due to familiarity!

Even Google.com used to NOT BE KNOWN on the Internet. Now Google is the largest known Search Engine on the Internet.

If Matt would like my help to enhance the home page of IHUB to make it more "user friendly" as a , ummmmm, "portal" .....I'd be glad to assist!

There used to be an Internet Phrase known as "STICKINESS". It related to how a website could KEEP people 'glued' to their website. This is what I mean when I discuss this.

IHUB lacks STICKINESS!

Think about Lycos.com. Do you truly believe that Raging Bull remains succesful because of it's own right? Nah! Raging Bull is still successful because it became a PART of LYCOS.COM! Yahoo Finance is the same story.

For IHUB to ever become the destination site that it is capable of, it needs to have a more functional, variable, and worthwhile HOMEPAGE.

The Message Board functions are the most difficult part of any "PORTAL" ......the rest...for the most part...is links to other interesting websites of daily interest. For the most part, Yahoo understood that concept, long ago!

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

coupled with other members not being given approval of 2 points per new member upon "authorization" (whatever that means!),

That's not a change in the MDC rules. If I felt I could've changed the MDC rules mid-stream, about 3 participants in it right now wouldn't be.

It's a change in the way the site is administered.

And it doesn't affect "other members" in the MDC. Nobody's being singled out. The new guidelines for approving new accounts apply to ALL new accounts, not just ones that specific people have reffered, despite what they'd like to have everyone think. If anything, the spam-meisters were favored heavily by benefitting from looser approval standards during the majority of the MDC.

Clearly, the Membership Drive Competition, although a good idea, has faltered by the wayside due to unclear rules in the beginning

I agree. It being the first one, it was bound to have problems with it I hadn't anticipated. If there's another one (big IF), the lessons learned from the shortcomings of this one will be applied. For example, posting the link publicly on a site you don't OWN would be grounds for disqualification. I've been relatively low-key about just how much the spamming of the site bothers me. It bothers heck outta me that some people will be getting checks who simply spammed links everywhere. And that one of them has never even POSTED on this site but instead plays dumb and pretends he's unable to through some fault of the site.

It isn't good for a website to start a Community Event, and then to change the rules as the event progresses to it's end.

What rule was changed?

None.

Approved accounts are worth 2 points just like they've always been. Unapproved/New accounts are worth 1 point just like they've always been. What's changed is the administrative process of approving accounts. Matt was having to review well over 100 accounts per day and it was decided that that was a waste of time because the only people who really needed the ability to post more than 3 times per day were people who, well, POST.

Winners were to get one of the TSHIRTS. In the recent Membership Drive Competition, it was announced that the top 50 winners would receive one of those TSHIRTS as a prize, stating that only 576 TSHIRTS would be produced. It remains unclear whether those TSHIRTS have been, or WILL BE produced.

They have not been. We've decided on the quantity of each size to order and the design and they will be produced early February and the first 50 will be shipped to MDC winners (in the size of their choice) and about a dozen more will be shipped to people whose taglines made it to the shirt, then when we know how many of each size remain, they will be for sale on the site.

Let me explain. To my knowledge, none of the other Financial Websites have asked members to be as loyal as IHUB has asked it's members to be. Those other websites just have a URL available out there and they hope to gain new members over time. IHUB has been different from those in that they have asked the members to participate in the growth of the website by being active members of the "community". But the breakdown occurs when the website does not hold up to it's own end of "the community".


Not sure I follow you here. Most websites try to foster a sense of loyalty. We didn't invent that.

If there is to be a TSHIRT created and we see that members have participated in that creation, it behooves the management of IHUB to follow through on it's intent and announce the winners and hold true to their word regarding same.


Ahhhh... Guilty until proven innocent, I see.

Additionally, I recently read whereby an old time member questioned the recent change in the rules of the Membership Drive Competition, and he was cast aside as though his opinion was of little or no importance in the long scheme of things. This is very sad, to me. The member clearly was trying to follow the known rules of the "contest" yet was lead to believe that he was only whining about the sudden change in the rules of the contest.

He was someone's who's been known for years on multiple sites as an incessant spammer, apparently had spammed his way to a high position in the MDC, and was complaining about "the rules changed" when indeed they hadn't.

The homepage is very boring...and very mundane. It needs constantly fresh material to bring members back on a regular basis.

Actually, Matt was making noise recently about doing a revamped homepage. As poor as Matt is at this kind of design, I'm far worse, so the task falls to him.

Financial News, International News, Weather, Sports!????


All of which not only costs a LOT of money (except Weather, probably, but who cares what the weather in Boogerville is like?) and takes us away from the focus of being a *message board*. Let those who are good at news (Knobias, for example) do news and we'll do what we're good at.

What I mean is that IHUB should become a PORTAL! Remember that old Internet Phrase????



Yikes!!! "Portal"? I don't want to be in the Portal business. I'm in the message-board business. Let Yahoo and InfoSpace and Lycos do the portal thing. I can't compete with them on portals. I'll just focus on message boards since it's looking like we can compete a bit there.

[Bob Zumbrunnen]

Poor John.

The contest is a bloody joke IMHO,

I won't disagree. It's been made a joke by a handful of people who just spam the hell out of the site on other sites, giving us a virtual black eye. People who don't care how it reflects on the site, but only how it reflects on their MDC points.

If another MDC is done, it'll be done differently in many regards. But I'm not going to change the rules mid-stream, despite how much it irks me that I'm going to be writing checks to people who made us look bad by spamming the living crap out of other sites ostensibly on our behalf.

Several well-known and very saavy posters from SI have signed on recently at my personal invitation,

Get real John. It's me. Remember me? I know how you're viewed at SI and what the real well-known and very savvy posters think of you there.

primarily to snag the time-critical and evaporating FREE membership opportunity.

I'd tell you to polish up the reading skills, but you already know what you just said isn't the case. FREE memberships are not evaporating. How can you pretend to have gotten that impression when so much verbage has been spent on the fact that it's LIFETIME subscriptions that won't be available after the end of this month.

Old habits are hard to break, and new situations are generally approached in "...IBEW (new guy on the jobsite) hide-and-watch..."

True, but you have by far the lowest percentage of referred members who actually post. About 37% of all people who join the site become posters within 5 days. And that same percentage is applying to most people in the MDC. I haven't calcluated that percentage for your referrals, but a guess would put it at less than 5%.

When I see percentages that low, it tells me that rather than personally inviting people to come join, it's more like a scatter-gun approach. In other words, spam.

Properly managed, every new member should receive a Hallmark quality "...Howdy.." card from iHUb , an Audio-Video "..howdy.." explaining how they can respond to member-initiated PMs, and a free

I do it my way on my site, which I feel is "properly managed" and you can feel free to start your own site and do the same. I feel that the welcome message the system sends new members is "properly managed".

After all, about 1 in 3 who get that message become posters. Unless you've referred them.

First time, shame on me; .......and there certainly isn't going to be a second time.


Good. I'd rather us be known for the quality and depth of discussion here; not for being the most frequently spammed site on competing sites.

[jmhollen]

Odds are it will approximate a current weather forecast for Seattle, served on equally soggy toast.

Keep your umbrella handy.


:-0

Park your Sub at the iHub - Bub; .....the experience might just "...float your boat..." !!!

[The Original dpb5!]

John,

I know how you feel, and that was the very reason I posted what I posted.

I know that you have been a loyal longterm user of IHub, the same as I have, and I suspect that you wish to be for a long time to come.

Let's wait and see how Matt and Bob respond to our concerns.

[jmhollen]

Your points are well made dpb,

The contest is a bloody joke IMHO, because somebody is obviously looking for instant McDonald's Gratification at the take-out window. They are farcically expecting new FREEBIE sign-ups, of all backgrounds, to immediately begin posting Merrill-Lynch grade analysis and and stock trading insight in Yalie presentational English coupled with Harvard business school terminology. Aka: nottoodam*likely.

Several well-known and very saavy posters from SI have signed on recently at my personal invitation, primarily to snag the time-critical and evaporating FREE membership opportunity. But, it will be some time (..according to them..) before they spend much time over here.

Old habits are hard to break, and new situations are generally approached in "...IBEW (new guy on the jobsite) hide-and-watch..." mode. Aka: lurking. There is also no pressing reason for them to subscribe monthly, annually or at the Lifetime level - other than losing the latter oportunity soon.

I have written a personal "...welcome and thank you..." notes to each person who signed up using my link. Unless things have changed recently (..even though I suggested a "respond if contacted by a regular member" capability..) they couldn't answer the welcome PM (..without tracking us down on a stock board someplace..) since NEWBIES did not have PM capability.

Properly managed, every new member should receive a Hallmark quality "...Howdy.." card from iHUb , an Audio-Video "..howdy.." explaining how they can respond to member-initiated PMs, and a free MickeyD's fries certificate if they post 10 times before 31JAN03.

OBTW: ".....SOOOO-PRISE, sooooooooo-prise.....", iHub's pseudoDynamic Duo have been grumbled at by the RESIDENT SPAM BEEFERS at none other than RavingBullschmidt for FREE MEMBERSHIP iHub links showing up over there. With terminal iHub jailbirds touting their 40 RB aliases, I just can't fathom how that situation ever came about...?!? Oh dearie me, how totally unexpected.....!! Aka: gettafreakin'grip.

Six months from now, we'll probably see quite a few new posters around. And, it will take another six months for many of those to morph from RB and/or Bobz-mode into "...complete sentence posting.." iHubians. But, don't hold your breath.

Having lived in Friendly Florida for a while, I certainly know better than to expect a "...thank you..." for 100+ new sign-ups. But, a "...well, I s'pose that's something..." might have begrudgingly offered - in lieu of the standard 'we really wanted Peter Lynch' fare.

Oh me.......................... First time, shame on me; .......and there certainly isn't going to be a second time.


John

Park your Sub at the iHub - Bub; .....the experience might just "...float your boat..." !!!

[The Original dpb5!]

Well, I kind of inadvertently stumbled across this board because it was listed under the GAMING INDUSTRY! LOL!

But since the board is here and has had some recent new posts, I thought I'd throw my two cents in.

Today, IHUB is experiencing the most rapid growth of it's history. Likely commendable to the recent Membership Drive Competition. Yet, it seems to me that the problem remains in how to not only GET new members, but how to both encourage them to interact as well as to get other new members to join.

Clearly, the Membership Drive Competition, although a good idea, has faltered by the wayside due to unclear rules in the beginning, coupled with some members being allowed to recruit new members and being able to see what Member Points they are achieving although that member is not eligible for the contest, coupled with other members not being given approval of 2 points per new member upon "authorization" (whatever that means!), coupled with NEW MEMBERS who joined and then largely SPAMMED the web, just in order to win a prize.

Why is this important, you ask? It is important because the entire Membership Drive Competition is a reflection of the IHUB Community as a whole. It isn't good for a website to start a Community Event, and then to change the rules as the event progresses to it's end. It only causes hurt feelings and resentment that is likely to cause one time GOOD, HONEST MEMBERS to turn a sour eye against the Website Community as a whole!

For all the GREAT things that IHUB has going for it, there is much to be learned about this current Membership Drive Competition. As a further example, within the last year there was a board created to name SLOGANS for IHUB, that would be placed upon a TSHIRT to be able to be sold on IHUB to interested members. Winners were to get one of the TSHIRTS. In the recent Membership Drive Competition, it was announced that the top 50 winners would receive one of those TSHIRTS as a prize, stating that only 576 TSHIRTS would be produced. It remains unclear whether those TSHIRTS have been, or WILL BE produced.

Ultimately, what WINS the BATTLE OF THE BOARDS? To me, the winner SHOULD be IHUB. IHUB has all the necessary tools to be the clear winner in the end. However, there remains the questions about integrity.

Let me explain. To my knowledge, none of the other Financial Websites have asked members to be as loyal as IHUB has asked it's members to be. Those other websites just have a URL available out there and they hope to gain new members over time. IHUB has been different from those in that they have asked the members to participate in the growth of the website by being active members of the "community". But the breakdown occurs when the website does not hold up to it's own end of "the community".

If there is to be a TSHIRT created and we see that members have participated in that creation, it behooves the management of IHUB to follow through on it's intent and announce the winners and hold true to their word regarding same.

Additionally, I recently read whereby an old time member questioned the recent change in the rules of the Membership Drive Competition, and he was cast aside as though his opinion was of little or no importance in the long scheme of things. This is very sad, to me. The member clearly was trying to follow the known rules of the "contest" yet was lead to believe that he was only whining about the sudden change in the rules of the contest.

If IHUB is to continue to grow, it is just as important that the owners of IHUB do their upmost to uphold the integrity of their members as they ask their members to uphold the integrity of IHUB.

Although I continue to hold great belief in the future of IHUB, the question becomes....

Ask NOT what YOU will do for IHUB, but what will IHUB do for you?

Future thoughts...

The homepage is very boring...and very mundane. It needs constantly fresh material to bring members back on a regular basis. IHUB needs to begin to focus on delivering some pertinent links on the homepage that would cause members to want to use IHUB as their START PAGE! Financial News, International News, Weather, Sports!????

What I mean is that IHUB should become a PORTAL! Remember that old Internet Phrase????

OK, nuff said. I'm stepping down off my soap box now.

Long Live IHUB!

[nightstocker]

Raginbull continues to experience problems and ins over run with idiots. All legitimate investors are seeking asylum at different sources. The death of the bull is imminenet.

[nightstocker]

Ihub has experienced great success lately and has seen itself move to arguably the number one status among the messge boards.

Remarkable improvement in a few short months.

[nightstocker]

Raging bull sucks and is on its last legs. They have tech problems on a weekly basis and only a skeleton of staff remaining. The boards are over run with posters who's only purpoe for being there is to disrupt the flow of communication so that no meaningful dialogue can take place.

Investors are leaving and not posting anymore. A great time for these guys to take advantage and step up and steal the quality members.

JR

[Mattu]

Some really odd things have been going in our favor lately...

Bob is convinced it as a full moon or something. Or maybe we've just been good boys this year.

[Alaman226]

Don't know about SI but Lycos keeps giving me a "server too busy" error message.

[Phil(Hot Rod Chevy)]

SI is down.

Is it out?

Have fun,
Phil

[Foxlette]

hey technoman

you're right, but I doubt you'll find that type of community on the net....when you can't see a face, a reaction, the eyes, people seem to forget there is a real person on the other end and hence lose 'common courtesy'

that aside, for me a good site is user friendly with

and humor

and a sense of fun

[stack]

Just came over from the RB, Great board this IHub. Like the 10 minute edit option.

Question, would it be possible to add some color options? Since I am looking at the Computer all day long, my eyes like darker colors, like old RB.
Maybe a RB color scheme option to get more people over here? If it's not to much work.

[NorthWesterner]

>>Because everybody will know thes rules and they'll be clearly defined.

That's what's needed. Not rules that change without notice or are made up on the fly or are based on the whim of the administrator, as is done in some sites.

[Mattu]

NW,

>>IMO you make it more public than it needs to be.<<

I completely agree. But, as you may recall, a while back you (and many others) accused me of support touters, pumpers ,etc. Others accuse me of supporting bashers.

The site has gone through several "rule" and philosophy changes.

The only way to clearly let people know what the real site rules are, at least in the beginning stages is to make them see them publicly.

Once the site is fully in motion (like SI), if I am still the Admin, I gurantee you'll see me very quiet. Because everybody will know thes rules and they'll be clearly defined.

Whatcha think?

[timhyma]

North, Makes sense. I was just throwing ideas out there.

[NorthWesterner]

Have you ever tried keeping a second browser window open and using one for IH and the other for stock research, whatever you use, Yahoo, clearstation, whatever? IMO that's a better approach than trying to do the charts, etc. through IH. There are lots of great charting sites, great news links, etc. Matt can't do any of them as well as the sites that specialize in them, so why should he when those can be accessed in a separate browser window?

I'm encouraging him to focus on making the stock chat the best possible and advising users to open parallel browser windows to do their analysis, charting, etc. while they keep one browser just for IH.

[NorthWesterner]

Yes.

[NorthWesterner]

Basically, yes, enforcing the rules. You do fine in controlling spam, discipling and jailing unruly posters, but IMO you make it more public than it needs to be. I think a real professional board doesn't need it to be so public. For example, on MF you never see people being disiplined, posts disappearing, etc. It all happens behind the scenes.

Sometimes I agree you have to make a point of it to show that there really are rules and they really are enforced. Just a personal preference, though, to keep it as much as possible out of the public eye.

Of course, on one level it's fun to see you chew out posters -- akin to watching Jerry Springer's goons manhandle the guests -- but a little of that goes a long way.

[timhyma]

Matt, Two features that would be nice:

I go to clearstaion frequently for quick looks at charts and get the 3 point view. Not sure if you could/would create something similar.

http://clearstation.etrade.com/

Also, http://www.knobias.com/individual/research/index.htm

Good trading info on this site. Just some thoughts. Thanks for all you do here at Ihub- Tim

[mr.mark]

"What makes a good site?"

when the majority of members have common respect for other people. there's no more to it than that.

i am not saying that i know how to go about achieving that state, or attracting those members, other than by a one-by-one process wherein each person decides that it is more important to respect others than it is to get a point across, or win an argument, or make a joke, or get some kind of notoriety.

each person, or the majority of the members, must endeavor to take what is sometimes the more difficult path. the easy path seems to lead to disintegration, misunderstandings, miscommunication and anger.

knowing when to just plain keep quiet, or to say you are wrong, or to apologize for an unintended offense. we don't see much of that sort of thing.

but it's definitely "What makes a good site"

:)

mark

[Mattu]

Umm..I am thinking that whatever RB did this weekend...

wasn't a good thing.

Just a thought. :)

[myDDdotcom]

The less clicks the better, that's the bottom line. With IHUB's 10 post thread, its a real chance to shine. I also like the PM feature, and the mail box replicating SI's best feature is key. RB's best feature is that the favorites are all right there all the time, no going onto a special page (that's more unwanted clicks), and their colors were pleasing on the eyes (that's past tense). Yahoo, the charts, really just the 1 day and the 5 day large ones, I still like those charts 5 years later, what a masterpiece. MF, they don't do OTCBB's so forget about them. Money, I think we are either going to have to pay, like here or SI or get ads up the yahoo and RB.

imho, Jerome

[myDDdotcom]

Hey Matt, you should think about opening up IHUB for free registration until the end of the year, the new RB format is really overbearing with ads, and I think the time is ripe for a mass transit.
I mean that format over on RB really is cheesy, and the black on white message reading is good for about 5 posts, just terrible stuff, they are going down.

imho, Jerome

[sarals]

My two cents...

Most important criteria for me are people, admin (TOS enforcement), content and speed (being on dial up it makes a big difference).

My experience is that IHub excels in all these areas above every other service. The only thing IHub doesn't have are some of the nice to have tools, such as quotes.

Quahog said:
SI has the smartest people, the nicest people, the kind of people you would want to have as next-door neighbors.

My experience is that I got the friendliest reception on IHub!

Sara
p.s. I really hate the colors on RB and love the simplicity of IHub... easy on the eyes.

[MMMARY]

MF=Motley Fool?

.

___________________________
Just say NO to stock fraud!

[Tatari Gami]

What makes a good site?

Good people, fair Admin....in that order

What is good about the current sites?

RB has nothing to offer. Yahoo has decent quotes and charts. SI has the smartest people, the nicest people, the kind of people you would want to have as next-door neighbors. It also has serious investors and traders. I have learned so much about the market just by marking a few selected threads and people on SI. iHub may have the best interface, similar to SI. It is simple, with lots of text on the screen, and a next 10 messages feature. iHub also has the most responsive Admin.

What is needed to make people pay? To stay?

To pay, you need real time quotes, charts, historical prices. To stay, FREE T-SHIRTS.

How should a stock chat site be managed? What is censorship?

Chat? Don't use it, don't care about it. Censorship is when the site admin makes decisions that are not based upon a reasonable interpretation of clearly written Terms of Use.


GOOD LUCK,

Quahog

[Mattu]

Awesome analysis. One question though.

>>Fair, evenhanded, unobtrusive oversight. IH okay, but too much discussion of. RB doesn't seem to do it at all. SI deteriorating. MF excellent.<<

I am not sure I understand this. Maybe because I am falling asleep.

Are you talking about enforcing the rules?

If so, I understand then.

Very cool analysis man.

EDIT: Once the discussion has a little momo, I am going to try to be quiet and listen for once.

[NorthWesterner]

Okay, I'll jump in.

What makes a great board?

Three things.

The people.

The people.

The people.

Now that that's out of the way, getting serious, there are a few essentials. (RB means the old RB; haven't been on the new one.)

Ease of use. Fast, convenient, intuitive. Here I rate IH very good, RB okay, SI good, MF very good.

Attractive. If things aren't nice to use, it's not pleasant to keep going back. IH fair to good, SI classic excellent, SI standard poor, RB poor, MF good.

Quality of posting. Posts that are supported, that are informative, that are educated, that are polite, that are helpful. A generally positive attitude of the posters, minimal flame wars, minimal name calling. This is central, of course. IH too soon to tell. RB lousy. SI was very good, now fair. MF excellent.

Fair, evenhanded, unobtrusive oversight. IH okay, but too much discussion of. RB doesn't seem to do it at all. SI deteriorating. MF excellent.

Absence of abuse -- touting, p&d, mindless bashing. Etc. IH fair, SI fair, RB awful, MF excellent.

For me, features beyond stock discussion and information are not that important, at least to me. Charts, news, etc., all that is peripheral. It's available elsewhere, and usually better. Keep the focus on stock discussion -- I suspect virtually everybody now has computers powerful enough to keep open two or more browser windows so they can have one on the chat board and others on the chart sites. OTOH, I really appreciate the MF articles, analysis, etc. Maybe, Matt, you should think about inviting a few people to post weekly columns of well researched information, if you can find people willing to do it who can keep up

There are other areas I could compare, but don't have time to. In general, my feeling is that for serious long term investors (as opposed to traders) RB and Yahoo are useless, SI used to be the cream of the crop but has fallen sadly by the wayside, MF has the best content for long term investors, but the absence of a "next 10" feature makes it very time consuming to read a busy thread, and some threads are so busy it's simply impossible to keep up, and IH is still finding its voice, but so far most of the action here s in the short term market and on penny and BB stocks, none of which are of much interest to serious LT investors who are family members with major personal responsibilities who are building their portfolios so they can pay for college, retirement, maybe a house purchase, and other such needs. .

FWIW, JMNSHO.

[Bernard Ng]

Hey Matty, you are running this thread under Listed & Nasdaq / Gaming and Casinos... man you are one big "playboy" LOL

I think i do have a better and simple design for the frontpage, will tell you later... after 20th.

signed,
Bernard

[Mattu]

I'd start with having the proper infrastructure in place.

Design is very important, but if the speed or availability isn't there, what good is the software?

Obviously, on the top of my list. Both making sure human screwups (yesterday-today) don't happen and upgrading our current infrastructure, just taking a while, because of some "inside" issues.. But time to shine is near.

[Mattu]

Let the games begin.