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Yes, I got a copy of your message in the email notification...
I just realized that what you did works just like a PM: Reply to someone's post and then edit the post immediately afterwards, removing the text. The person who you replied to will receive a notification email with the original text.
oh, did you read my post before I deleted/edited it? I'll send you a PM in happy hour.
I figured (after posting) it's a message better suited for PM. Has to do with Tradeking charging me up the ass for the non-dtc eligible fee
went on a diatribe about it lol. I hate them with every fiber of my being.
Don't hold your breath for a phone call back from the new lawyer representing AOBI lol. Let's hope though.
Expecting a phone call from her today, we'll see if it happens...
I may be overstating things by saying "almost all", but in my experience the ones that I have followed continued on as pink sheets.
"Almost all companies continue to trade as pink sheets after going private" hmm didn't know that. I knew you could have shares in the company, but didn't think it would show up on quotation services. seems like those market-info providers wouldn't want to be bothered showing bid/ask level 2 etc for non-publically traded companies.
I just saw your old post about the two lawyers... The lawyer I was referred to was Tahra Wright, not either of those two. LOL at the lawyers at Loeb Law Firm pawning this case off on one another. I bet it's an office joke.
Almost all companies continue to trade as pink sheets after going private, so it doesn't surprise me that it's still trading. The going private part just allows them to become non-reporting, so they can save the money it costs to do that.
But who would buy a bankrupt company at $2/share? That's the crazy part to me...
Ah, that makes sense... So it really just cost you two commissions.
btw, looks like another 111 shares were traded in AOBI today. If you get to talk with the new legal representative for AOBI, you may want to ask her why they are still trading if they REALLY went through a "going private" transaction.
lol yes, and turned right around and sold all but 100 shares (I feel safer with a round 100-share lot)
it just happened to work out this time. the overwhelming majority of the time, you cant use tradeking to buy these. either they wont let you, or not cost effective.
good riddance to them.
TradeKing has that $100 minimum per trade for OTC/Pink stocks. You bought $100 worth of PRTT in each account?
I'm just wondering about other apex-cleared brokers. I have prtt in a Firstrade account, and I had to call in to place a trade (which never went through) but there was no alert, red flags etc.
if Apex decides to go out and charge everyone because of their negligence in missing prtt being on the chill list, I'll be pissed.
not sure if I should pay the $50 acat fee to get shares out of apex-cleared brokers or not. Otherwise Id have to ASK the broker if there's a fee.....if they have to call apex to ask if they would like an extra $250....whatya think the response will be lol.
I'm sure you've experienced the indecisiveness about whether or not you should call a broker about such issues, it sometimes opens up a can of worms (like in my case with Tradeking here)
but it's unavoidable sometimes, like asking a broker where the f**k is the AOBI payout cash for fractionals lol.
I can log in, to check history etc. but even if I try to transfer funds out, I get an "access denied" message. So I'm consolidating all assets into one account, then will ACAT transfer the f**k outta there.
bastards, this restriction on my accounts apparently happened back in November and I never received so much as an email alerting me. Nice customer service.
Like I said, tradeking is the absolute worst broker I've ever used. Back in 2007 I had to get Finra involved. I filed a complaint because they refused to let me sell a stock. It was a round-up and wouldn't even let me ACAT transfer the share out.
They said with these crazy, risky round ups, the company may pull back the shares and decide to cancel the round up. So I was told I'd have to wait maybe a YEAR OR TWO before selling MY STOCK!
I complained, and the guy from Finra called me and said that he called Tradeking and negotiated an allowance to ACAT transfer the shares out....of course when I called Tradeking afterward, they refused LOL!! un-f**king believable!
I finally was allowed to transfer shares out....and the funny thing is, with their foot dragging and jerkiness, I't made me an additional $200 on the stock lol.
But they suck big time, avoid them.
So TradeKing won't let you even log into your accounts? Or do they let you log in, but you just get an error message when trying to place a trade?
Sounds crazy.
Ouch, sounds like a massive headache. At least you got filled at $20, so that should give you some cushion in case the fees hit your account.
Hey today..
I missed happy hour so I can't respond in pm. I did play prtt and I have been going back and forth with Tradeking regarding a possible DTC ineligible fee. They recently shut down my accounts because I had more than 1 in same name...so I had to call in to place the sell order. Tradeking is the worst for pennystocks anyway. I had issues with them back in 2007, and I rolled my eyes when they bought out Zecco trading...I knew there would be problems.
I will be VERY angry if they go ahead and charge me the fee, because when I bought, there was no warning. I think tradeking usually just doesn't allow DTC ineligible/chilled stocks to be traded. They are saying that they apparently "missed" this one, because it didn't trade much.
Normal traders like you and me can't just call up the DTC and find out which stock has a DTC chill/ineligible or not, THAT IS THE BROKER'S JOB. They work for us!!
and when I sold I had to call in and talk with trading assistant...and there was no warning flag. (I sold for $20 though) ;)
When you have to call in, and have a trader put the trade in for you, and he doesn't see any issues with the trade....then how can I be held responsible?....It's like they are retroactively charging me for a trade on a stock that they just found out that they missed.
I bet they will try and get me for an Illiquidity fee too. I have not heard of anyone being charged either DTC ineligible or illiquid fee from Apex-cleared broker. But I hate Tradeking so I won't put it past them.
I have a bad feeling that if I kept my mouth shut and didn't call in to find out why my accounts were frozen, there wouldn't be any question about a fee, they wouldn't have noticed it.
will let you know if they charge me.
BTW, good to know about new lawyer handling case for AOBI, She certainly can't be worse than the other guy who conveniently was never available....except for the time you talked to him...but he was either oblivious to the situation...or deliberately misleading(a lawyer?? I'm shocked lol)
Good luck with your endeavors in 2015 as well ;)
well, I guess any money put into this fiasco can be claimed as a loss for tax time. It certainly is a loss. Too bad it seems companies can blatantly steal from shareholders with no repercussions.
Maybe this is ultimately good news for the rest of us? those waiting on fractional-share payment? If the class-action securities fraud case was tossed, they can use that saved cash to pay for the fractionals.
I would think that Mitchell Nussbaum would agree that now the court "mechanism" has worked out. Waiting patiently on this "update" in early October.
LOL,
I guess holding our breath is ill advised though.
"American Oriental is being represented by Amanda J. Sherman and Eugene R. Licker of Loeb & Loeb LLP."
What? not being represented by Mitchell Nussbaum??
Maybe these 2 have more of a friggin' clue as to what the hell the deal is with the fractional-share payout fraud.
Chinese Pharma Co. Ducks Investor Suit Over Botched Sale
Share us on: By Jessica Corso
Law360, New York (September 24, 2014, 5:10 PM ET) -- A California federal judge on Tuesday tossed a putative class action brought by shareholders of China-based American Oriental Bioengineering Inc., saying that the board of directors' failure to disclose an unsuccessful subsidiary sale did not amount to securities fraud.
U.S. District Judge Fernando M. Olguin ruled that the lead plaintiffs failed to prove that AOB acted recklessly in releasing several quarterly earnings reports that glossed over the fact that it sold Nuo Hua Investment Co. Ltd. at a loss of nearly $1 million or that it still, a year later, hadn’t been paid in full for the $38.6 million transaction.
“At best, the allegations appear to support claims of gross negligence or incompetence, but that is not enough to state a claim for securities fraud,” Judge Olguin said.
The judge dismissed the complaint without leave to amend.
Lead plaintiffs Richard Deutner and ITENT EDV Dienstleistungs GmbH alleged that the company and its directors confessed to the alleged fraud via restatements of their 2010 financial reports that identified material weaknesses in the company’s financial controls.
Those material weaknesses, they said, were responsible for the fault in the original financial statements, which continued to list Nuo Hua as a long-term asset even after it had been sold.
Shortly after the 2011 restatements informed shareholders of the sale to Beijing Pharmaceutical Group Co. Ltd., the company revealed to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission that it still had not received full consideration from Beijing during a 2012 inquiry into the transaction.
However, the shareholders allege, the company continued to deceive the SEC by failing to inform it that none of its members were familiar with U.S. accounting practices or that it had failed to implement necessary financial oversight standards.
And independent auditor Ernst & Young Global Ltd. withdrew its 2009 and 2010 opinions of the company’s financial statements after it said concerns over inconsistencies were ignored, according to Tuesday's opinion.
The company addressed those inconsistencies in subsequent filings in 2013, saying that it hadn’t maintained the financial reporting structure necessary to support its complex operations and that its directors lacked the knowledge needed to comply with U.S. accounting standards.
As a result of these amended statements, AOB went from reporting a net gain of $14 million in 2010 to a net loss of over $67 million a year later, raising "substantial doubt about the company’s ability to continue," according to an SEC filing.
The company argued, however, that none of these revisions was sufficient to prove fraud. And Judge Olguin agreed on Tuesday, saying that plaintiffs’ allegations failed to suggest the motive or reckless behavior necessary to maintain a securities claim.
AOB attorneys Amanda Sherman and Eugene Licker of Loeb & Loeb LLP told Law360 on Wednesday they were happy with the ruling, saying that "the court’s dismissal ... demonstrates that plaintiffs need to do much more than present a rote recitation of formulaic claims based solely on public filings."
Representatives for the plaintiffs were unavailable for immediate comment on Wednesday.
American Oriental is being represented by Amanda J. Sherman and Eugene R. Licker of Loeb & Loeb LLP.
Lead plaintiffs are being represented by David E. Bower and Richard W. Gonnello of Faruqi & Faruqi LLP.
The case is Kevin McGee v. American Oriental Bioengineering Inc. et al., case number 2:12-cv-05476, in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California.
--Editing by Brian Baresch.
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lol that's what I've been hoping for....a "by Christmas" payout.
A Christmas miracle so to speak
Better than nothing... Hopefully we'll get a Christmas present =)
Gotta love that, "The attorney will TRY to have an
update by early October."
TRY HARDER JERK-WEED!!!
Latest response from my broker concerning fractional-share payout:
We appreciate your inquiry regarding the status of your American
Oriental Bioengineering shares.
After reviewing the matter with our Corporate Actions group, we confirm
the DTC has provided the following information as of 9/22/2014.
"Participants are advised the attorney is still working with the company
to find out the status of the funding. The attorney will try to have an
update by early October. DTC will continue to monitor and update
accordingly."
We regret that we do not have any additional details at this point
regarding payment for your shares.
You want Mitchell Nussbaum to begin responding? Then crush him on Yelp:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/nussbaum-mitchell-s-atty-new-york
http://www.yelp.com/biz/loeb-and-loeb-new-york
I'm sure there are probably some other Yelp pages but those are two he's associated with. Give one-star reviews about how he doesn't take your call and he'll freak out - Yelp is very convincing.
Well, a minimum four sets: one for U.S. auditor, one for Chinese government for tax purpose in China, one for local partners/stakeholders in China and last one for CEO/CFO and inner circle of inner circles.
Mrchnt: Have you spoken with Mitchell Nussbaum (the attorney)? If so, on what date, and what did he say?
If you haven't spoken to him but would like to, here's the number: (212) 407-4000 You'll speak to a company secretary first, and then get forwarded directory to Mitchell's secretary. I hope you have better luck than I have getting him on the phone.
My last interaction with him was June 19th, and at that time it sounded like the fractional share payouts would happen, but be delayed by the court mechanism. Feel free to go back to my post on that day for more details.
Everybody MUST Register AOBI in THEIR OWN name, not hold it in Street name.
I am hopeful that enough people (i.e., more than 300) holding at least ONE (1) share of this AOBI dog excrement will ask their broker to issue a certificate in your own name, or at a minimum, have the share transferred to your name by the Transfer Agent by doing an electronic transfer.
The Transfer Agent should still be Computershare, but a word to the wise:
Be prepared to talk with their "customer service reps" in very broken "Engrish" [sic] but with very Americanized names such as "Chip" "Brittany" "Steve" "Heidi" "Jennifer" and so on. I mean, it is blatantly clear that this was NOT their name at birth.
The number I've been calling regarding this fiasco is:
(866) 436-2125
I have much more information to share about their b.s. customer service department but will make a separate post so that this message does NOT get lost:
PLEASE REGISTER THE "NEW, POST-SPLIT" SHARES ASAP!
Fido does not charge me a service fee for issuing certificates in my name (cost is normally ~ $100 bucks with Fidelity). Siebert does not charge a service fee at all for issuing shares.
if the issuance of physical shares seem costs prohibitive (e.g., Charles Schwab @ $500.00, yes 5-0-0 DOLLARS!), please check into electronically registering the shares in your name.
And especially important:
If you hold more than one (1) post-split share, please gift it to a family member or friend, preferably one that does not share the same household address. It is critical that we get the number of registered shareholder back to MORE THAN 300 identifiable shareholders, not brokerage houses holding on behalf of individual shareholders.
If we can accomplish getting the number back above 300, AOBI's will have a duty to RESUME reporting to the SEC as a PUBLICLY held (not a closed, gone dark) corporation. Open all the books, report under Sarbanes/Oxley, hire accounting firms, spend hundreds of thousands each year. If these THIEVES are going to cost us money, I want them to spend as much money in litigation fighting federal securities law violations, both civil and criminal charges and facing multiple count federal indictments for criminal charges (think, e.g., fraud, deception, omission of material information to investors, and so on).
Please let me know if you need any help with transferring shares to yourselves and 300 of your newest, best friends and acquaintances. I'll do my best to help you.
300 PLUS is the goal here.
response from broker regarding the 1 share of AOBID in account:
DTC has not received or distributed any cash payments related to this security reorg:
8/22/14 DTC IS WORKING WITH THE AGENT TO DETERMINE WHEN OR IF WE WILL BE
FUNDED.
DTC WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR AND UPDATE ACCORDINGLY.
________________________________________________________________________________
09/03/14
DTC HAS NOT RECEIVED ANY INFORMATION REGARDING THE CASH PAYMENT.
________________________________________________________________________________
09/04/14 PARTICIPANTS ARE ADVISED THAT DTC HAS CONTACTED THE COMPANIES ATTY
TO SEE WHEN OR IF WE WILL BE FUNDED. WE WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR AND UPDATE
ACCORDINGLY.
If there's even a slight question of IF we will be funded, then kiss your investment goodbye I guess :(
Just checked a few accounts. Im showing 1 share of AOBID in 2 of them. (different clearing firms). had 500 shares in each. I should not, under any circumstances, have 1 share of it ever. Just a cash out.
Looks like it's official and they screwed us?
I guess many companies think that what they state in an SEC filing is just a possible course of action, not an obligation.
Class-action lawsuit time maybe?
Response to my inquiry with Vanguard today:
Dear Mr. ottoman:
Thank you for taking the time to contact us.
We have not received any additional information in regards to when we are
going to receive the payment for your shares in American Oriental
Bioengineering, Inc . (AOBI). We were advised the payout would occur in
mid-August 2014 as well, but the company extended the time frame. We will
communicate additional information to you as soon as we receive it, but
right now we are waiting just as you are. Thank you for your patience in
this matter.
hmm this doesn't look good . My Schwab account stated previously (under the description section for aobi) the following
AMERN ORIENTAL BIO NEXXX CLIENT W/500 OR LESS CASHED/OUT RATE 0.50 per share
or something to that effect, SPECIFICALLY mentioning the .50 a share, but now it reads.
AMERN ORIENTAL BIO NEXXX CLIENT W/500 OR LESS CASHED/OUT RATE TBD
CASHED OUT RATE TO BE ANNOUNCED!!!! WHAT THE FLYING F**K
I had already contacted them on friday with just a general update, and didn't realize this slight change, so I don't want to keep pestering them too much.
We shall see what happens.
Unfortunately brokers have been saying that since May. although the correspondence you received from fido gave an expected time (mid August) albeit a ballpark time.
Usually they just say that the DTC is working with the company to make the payments with no expected time (months, years.)...........
from my broker on 6.3.2014
Thank you for your message. I am happy to assist.
I called Corporate Action Department to check on the status of the cash distribution for American Oriental Bioengineering, Inc (AOBI).
As of 6/03/2014, The Depository Trust Company (DTC) is still working with the Company to determine how they are going to pay for the cashout and Cash in Leu (CIL). According to the DTC, holders of 500 shares or less will receive a cash out of .50/share.
Hopefully by Christmas they'll make the payments :)
Fido sent me this today:
Dear Mr. EI:
Thank you for taking the time to contact us via our electronic communication channels. I am writing to follow up on our Instant Message chat from August 27, 2014.
In researching with my Reorganization department, they have confirmed that your Ltx Credence Corp position will receive a cash payout of $0.50 per share. At this time, we do not have an anticipated date of when this payout will occur. The last update from the company was that they expected to complete the payout in mid-August. As this has already passed, we expect the payout to occur soon, but unfortunately we can not provide you with a firm date. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.
[...]
Sincerely,
Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC, Member NYSE, SIPC
hi, I'm sorry but I've been through the same games as you've been put through with this Nussbaum guy with other ventures.
He's a lawyer representing a shyster company. How much can we expect?
AOBI lawyer: games
AOBI transfer agent: clueless
I'm not wasting time calling him sorry. I've considered the small amount of money I've put into this turd company long gone. It's just the principle of the thing. Wondering if ANY repercussions come from putting out false info in SEC filings. (Of course they're being sued right now for failing to disclose certain info in filings)
I was told by someone at my broker that sometimes going-private payouts can take months (although usually just a few days) so I guess it's possible eventually something might happen, but with all the negative crap you read about the company online, I'm doubting it.
Also you're question of If so, what legal recourse can be taken? wouldn't fly too well, seeing as though the answer is to sue their client lol.
every once in awhile I'll "google" AMERICAN ORIENTAL BIOENGINEERING" to see what new links I can find, but beyond that, screw it.
The lawyer (Mitchell Nussbaum) was out of the country for the last two weeks of July. I've tried calling twice this week and have left messages but haven't gotten a call back yet.
The lawyer is the guy to talk to, he knows what's going on. I just can't get him on the phone or to return an email.
Will you try to call him?
Phone: 202-407-4000
The first person to answer will be an operator, ask for "Mitchell Nussbaum". They will transfer you to his secretary. When she answers she will ask for your name. After you give your name she will likely ask why you are calling. At that point just say something that is vague like "personal matters", and if she probes, just say that you don't feel comfortable sharing it with anyone other than Mitchell.
Every time that I mention AOBI or say that I'm just returning his call, she puts me on hold, checks with Mitchell and then comes back and says he's in a meeting. If you make the topic of conversation vague, then maybe he'll take your call.
If you do get on the phone with him, ask everything that we want to know...
When will fractional share payouts happen?
If there is no set date, then when would he estimate it to happen?
Is it possible that fractional share payouts may not happen at all? If so, what legal recourse can be taken?
When is the next court proceeding that will determine when the payouts happen?
Will the payouts be first in line with regard to all the payments that the company will be forced to make by the court?
I guess company still exists? article from July 2014
http://www.chp.gov.hk/en/view_content/35443.html
"AOBO has set up a hotline (3102 3616) for related enquiries."
Anybody speak Cantonese? or Mandarin? lol
would be funny to call and say WTF. Where's the cash.
this whole deal is stinking like 4-month-old dead fish. about as long ago as the reverse stock split.
I put another call in to Mitchell Nussbaum, but had to leave my info for him to call me back.
nothing new from broker. Here is email response from Vanguard:
The shares have been submitted for payment. It is taking longer than usual, however, the latest news still reflects similar information.
06/30/14 PARTICIPANTS ARE ADVISED THAT DTC IS STILL WAITING FOR THE AGENT AND
COMPANY TO DETERMINE HOW & WHEN THEY ARE GOING TO ALLOCATE THE FUNDS. DTCC
WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THIS ENVELOPE & UPDATE ACCORDINGLY.
was hoping for an update by now, or some action. something. oh well. back to thinking it's a lost cause, and no repercussions to the company.
LOL. amen brother! I hear ya.
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