FAQ on MVTG:
Question:
Can someone tell me what's the difference in formic acid produced by BASF and that derived from CO2 by MVTG's ERC reactor. Is MVTG's acid as "pure"? I'm afraid that this is yet another example of david vs goliath. BASF has a big plant in Germany, one in China and soon in Louisianna... can someone comfort me by explaining how MVTG didn't miss the train?
Oh yes, and how much does/would it cost MVTG to produce 1 ton of this acid compared to BASF. ( BASF or any other goliath company).
Answer:
First, BASF and KEMIRA, the two largest manufacturers of Formic acid in the world, have both been in contact with MVTG since at least 2009, if not earlier. KEMIRA has been an MVTG partner for years, the second largest manufacturer of Formic acid.
Back in the early days the MVTG concentration was not high enough to be a commercial grade. As I recall one the MVTG lab breakthroughs 2-3 years ago was reaching 80% concentration, high enough to be commercially usable.
Recently we got news that they have increased the purity and concentration to the point where they could sell it ready to use at the LaFarge loading dock!!!
Purity has to do with trace contaminates, like trace heavy metals, sulfurs, nitrates....
Concentration has to do with how much water, gross contaminate, is left.
Formic acid produced by BASF and KEMIRA, is made from crude oil, and is very costly to produce. The market price is also very high, around $1500/ton.
Formic acid from an MVTG ERC would be made from waste CO2 and renewable energy, wind, solar, geothermal, etc.
In the case of MVTG, David versus Goliath, MVTG has 5 Goliath JV partners now, KEMIRA, second largest manufacturer of formic acid in the world (they are huge in Europe), LaFarge, an 8 billion dollar world wide cement manufacturer, the largest source of CO2 on the plant is from roasting limestone to make cement needed for concrete dams, bridges and roads..
ALSTOM, a monster 22 billion Euro (1.36 Euros = 1 US dollar), 22,xxx employee monster that is one of the largest design and build firms in the world of Nuclear power plants, high speed trains, electric power utility systems, CO2 capture and concentration and purification systems (some of their research into CO2 capture the last 10 years was government funded in Europe and the US DOE), just handed MVTG 1 million dollars in JV initial funding......
BASF, last time I heard, was still thinking about working with MVTG in some capacity.
Before the last 3-4 major design improvements were announced MVTG was quoting an expected 20% RTO, Return On Investment, of MVTG ERC's to capture and convert CO2 to formic acid. That was back in 2009, I would expect it to be much higher now. About 100-200 billion dollars has been spend world wide just to research building systems to capture and bury CO2 deep underground, with no product or revenue at all.
MVTG is one of the few companies in the world at the cutting edge of capturing and using the CO2 to make products, and the only one I know of so far claiming they can make a positive RTO at all and capture CO2 in the process.
Most non MVTG CO2 capture systems, will need huge massive power sucking compressors, refrigeration and very long pipelines built to carry waste CO2 to deep underground burial sites. The deep wells would need to be built first, and many experts say that burying it underground is just as dangerous (will it stay there), if not more dangerous, than venting it to the atmosphere. Concentrated CO2 leaks at the surface from concentrated deep well sources, to ground level is just as dangerous as hydrogen sulfide gas leaks at oil wells. They kill in minutes.
MVTG has more than enough Goliath partners now. Powertech BC Hydro
is on board (Google and WIKI search them all), and NORAM is on Board doing the final designs as well. NORAM is largest most respected design, build R&D firm in the electrochemical reactor business in the world today, with customers like Bayer Chemicals and EI Dupont (and I forget, maybe even BASF). So that is not an issue, and BASF could sign on as a JV partner very soon. They might want to buy the bulk Formic acid.
Also the MVTG ERC will be able to produce other high value products which are in high demand, Formates, the salts of Formic acid.
The MVTG next generation fuel cell (patent issued) can create massive additional markets for formic acid that have never existed.
Do not forget, that even break even on making products from CO2 is less costly than building and operating compressor stations, refrigeration and pipelines and deep wells, that may kill people (liability), and those may never get permits to be built or get funded, and CO2 captured and converted to Formic acid would be marketable as carbon credits in carbon trading systems that already exist worldwide.
The MVTG ERC RTO calculations do not include income from selling carbon credits, or savings from avoiding carbon taxes like the one China is planning now, or the ones many states like California and the Euro zone are already implementing!!!!
They also do not factor in reducing oil consumption where formic acid would fuel transportation instead of gasoline. And formic acid is non flammable
Question:
Can someone tell me what's the difference in formic acid produced by BASF and that derived from CO2 by MVTG's ERC reactor. Is MVTG's acid as "pure"? I'm afraid that this is yet another example of david vs goliath. BASF has a big plant in Germany, one in China and soon in Louisianna... can someone comfort me by explaining how MVTG didn't miss the train?
Oh yes, and how much does/would it cost MVTG to produce 1 ton of this acid compared to BASF. ( BASF or any other goliath company).
Answer:
First, BASF and KEMIRA, the two largest manufacturers of Formic acid in the world, have both been in contact with MVTG since at least 2009, if not earlier. KEMIRA has been an MVTG partner for years, the second largest manufacturer of Formic acid.
Back in the early days the MVTG concentration was not high enough to be a commercial grade. As I recall one the MVTG lab breakthroughs 2-3 years ago was reaching 80% concentration, high enough to be commercially usable.
Recently we got news that they have increased the purity and concentration to the point where they could sell it ready to use at the LaFarge loading dock!!!
Purity has to do with trace contaminates, like trace heavy metals, sulfurs, nitrates....
Concentration has to do with how much water, gross contaminate, is left.
Formic acid produced by BASF and KEMIRA, is made from crude oil, and is very costly to produce. The market price is also very high, around $1500/ton.
Formic acid from an MVTG ERC would be made from waste CO2 and renewable energy, wind, solar, geothermal, etc.
In the case of MVTG, David versus Goliath, MVTG has 5 Goliath JV partners now, KEMIRA, second largest manufacturer of formic acid in the world (they are huge in Europe), LaFarge, an 8 billion dollar world wide cement manufacturer, the largest source of CO2 on the plant is from roasting limestone to make cement needed for concrete dams, bridges and roads..
ALSTOM, a monster 22 billion Euro (1.36 Euros = 1 US dollar), 22,xxx employee monster that is one of the largest design and build firms in the world of Nuclear power plants, high speed trains, electric power utility systems, CO2 capture and concentration and purification systems (some of their research into CO2 capture the last 10 years was government funded in Europe and the US DOE), just handed MVTG 1 million dollars in JV initial funding......
BASF, last time I heard, was still thinking about working with MVTG in some capacity.
Before the last 3-4 major design improvements were announced MVTG was quoting an expected 20% RTO, Return On Investment, of MVTG ERC's to capture and convert CO2 to formic acid. That was back in 2009, I would expect it to be much higher now. About 100-200 billion dollars has been spend world wide just to research building systems to capture and bury CO2 deep underground, with no product or revenue at all.
MVTG is one of the few companies in the world at the cutting edge of capturing and using the CO2 to make products, and the only one I know of so far claiming they can make a positive RTO at all and capture CO2 in the process.
Most non MVTG CO2 capture systems, will need huge massive power sucking compressors, refrigeration and very long pipelines built to carry waste CO2 to deep underground burial sites. The deep wells would need to be built first, and many experts say that burying it underground is just as dangerous (will it stay there), if not more dangerous, than venting it to the atmosphere. Concentrated CO2 leaks at the surface from concentrated deep well sources, to ground level is just as dangerous as hydrogen sulfide gas leaks at oil wells. They kill in minutes.
MVTG has more than enough Goliath partners now. Powertech BC Hydro
is on board (Google and WIKI search them all), and NORAM is on Board doing the final designs as well. NORAM is largest most respected design, build R&D firm in the electrochemical reactor business in the world today, with customers like Bayer Chemicals and EI Dupont (and I forget, maybe even BASF). So that is not an issue, and BASF could sign on as a JV partner very soon. They might want to buy the bulk Formic acid.
Also the MVTG ERC will be able to produce other high value products which are in high demand, Formates, the salts of Formic acid.
The MVTG next generation fuel cell (patent issued) can create massive additional markets for formic acid that have never existed.
Do not forget, that even break even on making products from CO2 is less costly than building and operating compressor stations, refrigeration and pipelines and deep wells, that may kill people (liability), and those may never get permits to be built or get funded, and CO2 captured and converted to Formic acid would be marketable as carbon credits in carbon trading systems that already exist worldwide.
The MVTG ERC RTO calculations do not include income from selling carbon credits, or savings from avoiding carbon taxes like the one China is planning now, or the ones many states like California and the Euro zone are already implementing!!!!
They also do not factor in reducing oil consumption where formic acid would fuel transportation instead of gasoline. And formic acid is non flammable
Ambition with out knowledge is like ship in dry dock. Going nowhere fast!
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