Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:24:30 PM
Ah, rooster, thank you! for offering a place for this on Tornado Alley, too .. it fits good enough ..
rooster, you have a strict ideology, extreme anti-union, unfettered free-enterprise, no regulation, Obama is communist
.. an extreme conservative .. that's you .. me? .. not extremely ideologically fixed, but rather for balance, weight on
both sides of the teeter-totter, that more comfortable stuff .. i know what unions have achieved, minimum wage,
safer working conditions, for just two .. http://tcmag.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/featured-article-7/ .. re your ..
"They better blame BIG UNION for this mess they started." [my bold]
consider this anti-union, yet, hmm, more objective, and without
malice .. not the somewhat rabid, nonobjective position yours is ..
An Anti-Union Guy Says: Don’t Blame the UAW
I’ll start by making it crystal clear: I don’t like unions. Most unions, in my humble opinion, penalize the best workers and deliver unjustified compensation to the worst. As a guy who loves to negotiate on my own, I’d only join a union as a last-resort.
That being said, America’s infatuation with demonizing the United Auto Workers is DEAD WRONG. Almost everything you’ve heard or believe about the UAW is not accurate, because the UAW is different from most unions.
Myth number one is the UAW, like all unions, exists only because it makes the leaders rich off of union dues. Guess what? Ron Gettelfinger, the President of the UAW, made $156,000 in 2007 and just under $160,000 in 2008. It might sound like a lot of money, but consider that this most powerful union boss in the world makes less than almost any regional union chief. For instance, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) Local 32B-32J chapter in New York was paying its president $530,000 each year.
Even better, a person with no experience and no education can get a base of $80,000 if he is lucky enough to get a Longshoreman’s union entry-level job.
In comparison, Rick Wagoner, former President of GM, had a 2008 salary of $2.2 million. Bob Lutz, GM’s former high-profile VP, saw $1.56 million in 2008. Gettelfinger, the demonized head of this so-called greedy union in actuality makes less money than the average GM low-level department director.
Myth number two is that the UAW has no interest in the survivability of the auto companies and has never been interested in anything other than better pay and benefits. This is totally untrue. Indeed, in 1949, UAW President Walter Reuther oversaw the publication of a position paper called “A Small Car Named Desire”, which urged The Big Three to start producing smaller, more fuel efficient cars, because that is exactly what the UAW perceived the American public would want. The Big Three’s top brass told Reuther to stick to negotiating contracts, rather than tell them how to run their businesses.
Throughout the 1960s and 1970s, the UAW was regulated by the Big Three to being concerned only about protecting members’ benefits. By the late 1970s, the UAW started to see the foreign competition as a legitimate threat to the US auto industry, even when Big Three SWAT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats) analyses focused solely on one another in each segment.
The UAW urged foreign automakers to build their cars here in the USA. Unfortunately for them, right-to-work states did better jobs of lobbying, so most foreign-owned shops became non-union.
Interestingly, though, the Japanese-owned factories seemed to offer fair compensation for work. So what does that say about the Big Three? To me it says they were…and still are greedy, shortsighted, too inbred, and insulated to see that it was their own damn fault, not the UAW’s, for the domestic auto industry’s collapse.
http://fourwheeldrift.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/an-anti-union-guy-says-dont-blame-the-uaw/
======== .. one other on the auto companies and UAW ..
If GM Collapses, Don't Blame The Union
Joann Muller, 12.05.08, 06:00 AM EST
Once bitter enemies, the Detroit Three and Ron Gettelfinger's UAW have long since buried the hatchet.
Unionized autoworkers are a favorite scapegoat for the problems facing U.S. automakers. Their job security guarantees and gold-plated benefits have surely cost General Motors, Ford Motor and Chrysler a bundle over the past few decades. Indeed, the domestics' historically high labor costs are among the reasons they haven't been able to compete with Japanese rivals, and why Detroit CEOs were back on Capitol Hill again Thursday asking for $34 billion in taxpayer loans to survive.
But the U.S. automakers probably would have collapsed by now if not for the concessions made by the United Auto Workers union over the past three years.
continued: http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/04/detroit-labor-uaw-biz-manufacturing-cz_jm_1205union.html
you would read my other "maybe" .. too long? .. well sometimes it doesn't hurt to relax
with..., to take time to consider and/or reconsider .. to put aside the instant gratification fix ..
5 Reasons America Needs Labor Unions
The strangler fig wraps itself around a palm tree until the palm
tree dies. Which do you feel like the strangler fig or the palm?
5 reasons America Needs Labor Unions
When Labor Unions were strong the middle class was strong.
In the years following World War II unions grew and the middle class prospered. Unions .. http://gnelson.hubpages.com/hub/Employee-Survival-Guide-Part-One .. represented over 33% of the working class and we all benefited. In 2011 unions represent less than 12% of us and the Country is not doing so well. The middle class is struggling. The U. S. A. has a consumer driven economy and without a working middle class the consumer has no money. Wouldn’t it be nice to have someone speaking for you in Washington D. C.? Wouldn’t it be good for the economy to have a strong middle class?
When the middle class was strong America was strong.
Germany has strong unions and they are doing well. In 2010 Germany’s 2.2% growth helped the euro zone outpace the United States. Germany is the fifth largest economy in the world and the largest in Europe and prides itself on its highly skilled labor force. Germany has strong Labor Unions, a strong green economy, strong public education, strong social security and unemployment benefits and a trade surplus. They also have higher income taxes than the United States.
They have strong unions representing working people and creating a strong middle class. Here in the good old U.S.A. we blame Unions and workers for our problems. Union busting is good for corporations and bad for you and me. It is also good for governments who don’t want to tax the few that have most of the wealth.
Corporations are profit centers and workers are a cost.
I have no idea how many CEO’s have received a big bonus for cutting costs by laying off workers. By cutting costs, profits go up. Profits also go up when they hire cheaper labor overseas. Profits also go up when they lobby congress for tax breaks. Profits also go up when they keep profits off shore so they don’t pay U.S. income taxes. You and I get less jobs and lower pay because we can’t compete with the children and low wage earners in China and Brazil and India and all the other countries where American Corporations create jobs.
Corporations can afford lobbyist you and I can’t.
Lobbyists represent corporations in our State capitols and in Washington D.C. They have access to our elected officials because their clients donate large amounts of money to the elected officials for re-election campaigns. You don’t have a lobbyist. You don’t have that access. You don’t get that kind of representation. It is a wonderful world when you have access to legislators who want to make you happy.
As of June 2011, American Corporations .. http://gnelson.hubpages.com/hub/10-Worst-Corporate-Income-Tax-Avoiders .. have one and one half trillion dollars in cash. That buys a lot of lobbyists. How many lobbyists do you have?
Labor Unions are the only organizations that solely represents working people.
Labor Unions .. http://gnelson.hubpages.com/hub/Employee-Survival-Guide-Part-One .. only represent working people. Part of your union dues pays for someone to lobby elected officials on your behalf. Corporations don’t like this because they want to keep as much money as possible for themselves. They don’t want you to have higher wages, or better benefits, or more unemployment, or better workers compensation. Union lobbyist argues for you, the working majority. They are your voice, the voice of the middle class. They argue against eliminating or reducing Social Security and Medicare and unemployment and workers compensation. They work for you.
Since Unions are not nearly as strong as they once were, your voice has weakened. You can see the result of that in our economy. Those who have a voice are doing well. The rest of are paying the price.
You should also know that there is a huge amount of money spent by Corporations to convince you that Labor Unions are not good for you. They have been very successful. Search the AFLCIO website and get a feel for what Labor Unions are trying to accomplish for you. I think you will be happily surprised. I know you will be better informed
http://gnelson.hubpages.com/hub/5-Reasons-America-Needs-Labor-Unions
the comments in the last one are good, too .. if the bit at the top
doesn't quite fit you, rooster, please tell me what it is that doesn't fit ..
rooster, you have a strict ideology, extreme anti-union, unfettered free-enterprise, no regulation, Obama is communist
.. an extreme conservative .. that's you .. me? .. not extremely ideologically fixed, but rather for balance, weight on
both sides of the teeter-totter, that more comfortable stuff .. i know what unions have achieved, minimum wage,
safer working conditions, for just two .. http://tcmag.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/featured-article-7/ .. re your ..
"They better blame BIG UNION for this mess they started." [my bold]
consider this anti-union, yet, hmm, more objective, and without
malice .. not the somewhat rabid, nonobjective position yours is ..
An Anti-Union Guy Says: Don’t Blame the UAW
I’ll start by making it crystal clear: I don’t like unions. Most unions, in my humble opinion, penalize the best workers and deliver unjustified compensation to the worst. As a guy who loves to negotiate on my own, I’d only join a union as a last-resort.
That being said, America’s infatuation with demonizing the United Auto Workers is DEAD WRONG. Almost everything you’ve heard or believe about the UAW is not accurate, because the UAW is different from most unions.
Myth number one is the UAW, like all unions, exists only because it makes the leaders rich off of union dues. Guess what? Ron Gettelfinger, the President of the UAW, made $156,000 in 2007 and just under $160,000 in 2008. It might sound like a lot of money, but consider that this most powerful union boss in the world makes less than almost any regional union chief. For instance, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) Local 32B-32J chapter in New York was paying its president $530,000 each year.
Even better, a person with no experience and no education can get a base of $80,000 if he is lucky enough to get a Longshoreman’s union entry-level job.
In comparison, Rick Wagoner, former President of GM, had a 2008 salary of $2.2 million. Bob Lutz, GM’s former high-profile VP, saw $1.56 million in 2008. Gettelfinger, the demonized head of this so-called greedy union in actuality makes less money than the average GM low-level department director.
Myth number two is that the UAW has no interest in the survivability of the auto companies and has never been interested in anything other than better pay and benefits. This is totally untrue. Indeed, in 1949, UAW President Walter Reuther oversaw the publication of a position paper called “A Small Car Named Desire”, which urged The Big Three to start producing smaller, more fuel efficient cars, because that is exactly what the UAW perceived the American public would want. The Big Three’s top brass told Reuther to stick to negotiating contracts, rather than tell them how to run their businesses.
Throughout the 1960s and 1970s, the UAW was regulated by the Big Three to being concerned only about protecting members’ benefits. By the late 1970s, the UAW started to see the foreign competition as a legitimate threat to the US auto industry, even when Big Three SWAT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats) analyses focused solely on one another in each segment.
The UAW urged foreign automakers to build their cars here in the USA. Unfortunately for them, right-to-work states did better jobs of lobbying, so most foreign-owned shops became non-union.
Interestingly, though, the Japanese-owned factories seemed to offer fair compensation for work. So what does that say about the Big Three? To me it says they were…and still are greedy, shortsighted, too inbred, and insulated to see that it was their own damn fault, not the UAW’s, for the domestic auto industry’s collapse.
http://fourwheeldrift.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/an-anti-union-guy-says-dont-blame-the-uaw/
======== .. one other on the auto companies and UAW ..
If GM Collapses, Don't Blame The Union
Joann Muller, 12.05.08, 06:00 AM EST
Once bitter enemies, the Detroit Three and Ron Gettelfinger's UAW have long since buried the hatchet.
Unionized autoworkers are a favorite scapegoat for the problems facing U.S. automakers. Their job security guarantees and gold-plated benefits have surely cost General Motors, Ford Motor and Chrysler a bundle over the past few decades. Indeed, the domestics' historically high labor costs are among the reasons they haven't been able to compete with Japanese rivals, and why Detroit CEOs were back on Capitol Hill again Thursday asking for $34 billion in taxpayer loans to survive.
But the U.S. automakers probably would have collapsed by now if not for the concessions made by the United Auto Workers union over the past three years.
continued: http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/04/detroit-labor-uaw-biz-manufacturing-cz_jm_1205union.html
you would read my other "maybe" .. too long? .. well sometimes it doesn't hurt to relax
with..., to take time to consider and/or reconsider .. to put aside the instant gratification fix ..
5 Reasons America Needs Labor Unions
The strangler fig wraps itself around a palm tree until the palm
tree dies. Which do you feel like the strangler fig or the palm?
5 reasons America Needs Labor Unions
When Labor Unions were strong the middle class was strong.
In the years following World War II unions grew and the middle class prospered. Unions .. http://gnelson.hubpages.com/hub/Employee-Survival-Guide-Part-One .. represented over 33% of the working class and we all benefited. In 2011 unions represent less than 12% of us and the Country is not doing so well. The middle class is struggling. The U. S. A. has a consumer driven economy and without a working middle class the consumer has no money. Wouldn’t it be nice to have someone speaking for you in Washington D. C.? Wouldn’t it be good for the economy to have a strong middle class?
When the middle class was strong America was strong.
Germany has strong unions and they are doing well. In 2010 Germany’s 2.2% growth helped the euro zone outpace the United States. Germany is the fifth largest economy in the world and the largest in Europe and prides itself on its highly skilled labor force. Germany has strong Labor Unions, a strong green economy, strong public education, strong social security and unemployment benefits and a trade surplus. They also have higher income taxes than the United States.
They have strong unions representing working people and creating a strong middle class. Here in the good old U.S.A. we blame Unions and workers for our problems. Union busting is good for corporations and bad for you and me. It is also good for governments who don’t want to tax the few that have most of the wealth.
Corporations are profit centers and workers are a cost.
I have no idea how many CEO’s have received a big bonus for cutting costs by laying off workers. By cutting costs, profits go up. Profits also go up when they hire cheaper labor overseas. Profits also go up when they lobby congress for tax breaks. Profits also go up when they keep profits off shore so they don’t pay U.S. income taxes. You and I get less jobs and lower pay because we can’t compete with the children and low wage earners in China and Brazil and India and all the other countries where American Corporations create jobs.
Corporations can afford lobbyist you and I can’t.
Lobbyists represent corporations in our State capitols and in Washington D.C. They have access to our elected officials because their clients donate large amounts of money to the elected officials for re-election campaigns. You don’t have a lobbyist. You don’t have that access. You don’t get that kind of representation. It is a wonderful world when you have access to legislators who want to make you happy.
As of June 2011, American Corporations .. http://gnelson.hubpages.com/hub/10-Worst-Corporate-Income-Tax-Avoiders .. have one and one half trillion dollars in cash. That buys a lot of lobbyists. How many lobbyists do you have?
Labor Unions are the only organizations that solely represents working people.
Labor Unions .. http://gnelson.hubpages.com/hub/Employee-Survival-Guide-Part-One .. only represent working people. Part of your union dues pays for someone to lobby elected officials on your behalf. Corporations don’t like this because they want to keep as much money as possible for themselves. They don’t want you to have higher wages, or better benefits, or more unemployment, or better workers compensation. Union lobbyist argues for you, the working majority. They are your voice, the voice of the middle class. They argue against eliminating or reducing Social Security and Medicare and unemployment and workers compensation. They work for you.
Since Unions are not nearly as strong as they once were, your voice has weakened. You can see the result of that in our economy. Those who have a voice are doing well. The rest of are paying the price.
You should also know that there is a huge amount of money spent by Corporations to convince you that Labor Unions are not good for you. They have been very successful. Search the AFLCIO website and get a feel for what Labor Unions are trying to accomplish for you. I think you will be happily surprised. I know you will be better informed
http://gnelson.hubpages.com/hub/5-Reasons-America-Needs-Labor-Unions
the comments in the last one are good, too .. if the bit at the top
doesn't quite fit you, rooster, please tell me what it is that doesn't fit ..
It was Plato who said, “He, O men, is the wisest, who like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing”
Join the InvestorsHub Community
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
