Sunday, September 23, 2007 1:26:34 PM
please excuse and forgive me in advance for creating and putting up this post. thanks. i need to orgarnize it...to make an efficient iBox link. this is just how my mind tends to see this part of 911. currently, it still makes the most sense to me/is the best explanation for the planes vs. no planes WTC towers issue...though i certainly make mistakes/am not perfect and so on. soon it will work it's way down the post list as it should. this is just an organized info. post for me. nothing more...nothing personal. i am still open to learn more/understand things better and in essence, i am open to more information/input and so on...as i continue along a path and follow my quest to create a better society. learning/change and growth continues. i seek positves ways...not just for myself...and not just for my own personal benefit. by changing myself, i do in a very real sense change society as well. that's the key: liberate yourself (your mind) and help willing others when able.
______________________________________________________________
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: easymoney101 who wrote msg# 4886 Date:9/22/2007 10:10:48 PM
Post 4894 of 4923
interesting. though i am still not convinced because of the following reasons: the second plane does not appear to have been a normal passenger aircraft...claims were made that it didn't have windows...it is a blue color...i have seen the videos that show what appears to be a bomb/missile like device attached underneath and near the nose of the second plane...both planes have a flash/apparent explosion occur just prior to impact...this explosion appears to have been used to create the openings/the initial piercings into these towers and also ignited the jet fuel that was carried by each plane...the sides of the TWC towers were not solid-steel re-inforced concrete...they had long narrow glass windows in them...thus weaknesses. if, the explosions occurred from the inside of the TWC towers (in the areas where the two planes hit) the explosions and debris/damage pattern would spheric and outward away from the point of detonation (in general). i don't see this.
so, the planes that hit the towers could have been re-inforced for better penetration. bombs/missile like devices appear to have been used to penetrate the exterior of the buildings and ignite the remaining jet fuel into large fireballs (the trajectory of the fireball and debris from the second plane hit appear to be consistent with the velocity of impact...whatever it actually was). thus, these two planes create the fires that remained until both structures were destroyed via the entire very long series of explosions at all levels to completely compromise the integrity of the internal/central steel main support structure at all level including the basement (sub-basement? that term is confusing...anyway).
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: easymoney101 who wrote msg# 4899 Date:9/23/2007 2:40:11 AM
Post 4912 of 4923
i still disagree. the damage to the exterior of both towers at the entry points are plane shaped and off-set...not horizontal. using an explosive charge to help penetrate the buildings (which are also mostly empty space...with steel, glass and concrete...largely held together by the steel welds and rivets/bolts) and start the fires. both explosions seemed to eliminate much of the planes as well (this bother me a bit. i'm tired of people talking about aluminum and other metals being vaporized...the damn things have to melt and become liquids first. those kind of temps were not likely reached for long either. Boiling Point of Aluminum: 2467.0 °C (2740.15 K, 4472.6 °F)
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/collapse/crashdetail.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/collapse/wtc1gash.html
Slides Index http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/collapse/slides.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/
Empire State Building plane crash
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0311.shtml
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: bartermania who wrote msg# 4912 Date:9/23/2007 3:04:28 AM
Post 4913 of 4923
Frank A. De Martini: "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it -- that was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting -- it really does nothing to the screen netting."
Frank A. De Martini, who had first came to work at the WTC after the 1993 bombing was killed in the 2001 attack.
http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/911mysteries/index.html
WTC Construction Manager: Towers Were Designed to Take Numerous Plane Crashes
This clip is taken from Anthony Hilder's documentary, 9/11: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/141104designedtotake.htm
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: easymoney101 who wrote msg# 4915 Date:9/23/2007 10:42:58 AM
Post 4917 of 4923
one might wonder why such, if it is or was true, was not done with the pentagon. that scene was much better contolled and policed than NYC. they could've just made an excellent movie of it and released it to the public if, they had that much power and control. yes...think.
NYC...tuesday moring around 9am on a sunny september morning...and millions of eyes and ears are around the crime scene. and after the first plane hit...many people of the metropolis were looking at and watching the tower(s) (both from Manhattan and NJ)...and private regular folks with their own cameras. an explosion occurred as each jet hit and the tubular steel exterior construction/frame/grid...with concrete...was broken and the plane went into the building. for the sake of my pov...the interiors of TWC buildings were quite open on each floor...excluding the elevator/center section.
anyway...i don't know it all...and i never will. i think i understand the central points about 911/what happened that day and what it means regardless
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: bartermania who wrote msg# 4917 Date:9/23/2007 11:54:19 AM
Post 4922 of 4923
some photos of the interior of the WTC towers and related info./pics/and sites...more later maybe/maybe not
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=23092438
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: bartermania who wrote msg# 4922 Date:9/23/2007 12:19:12 PM
Post 4923 of 4923
the external steel was put togther from pre-fab sections/units...forming an interlocking grid/wall/structure. the exterior was not made from continuous steel I-beams or any such thing. it was put and welded/rivetted/bolted together in sections. these seams being possible weak points/the weak points. the interior of the towers were very much open except for the center elevator shaft/main weight supporting/stabilizing part of the building. the concrete and steel truss floors would provide internal resistance to the planes hitting the building's exterior...thus, creating flex/stress and/or breaking points where the external tubular steel sections joined (especially, between the floors). and so, they failed...proportionate to the force applied to them. if, some exterior WTC material appears to be pointing outward in these openings...i would say it was from the fireballs' blowback/explosions...the outward force of the fireballs/explosions wrought on the building and not the plane's inward largely linear force/momentum/trajectory.
supposedly, the towers occupied roughly a full square acre of space. the area they were built on and enclosed/covered. their ground level "foot print". that's big.
______________________________________________________________
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: easymoney101 who wrote msg# 4886 Date:9/22/2007 10:10:48 PM
Post 4894 of 4923
interesting. though i am still not convinced because of the following reasons: the second plane does not appear to have been a normal passenger aircraft...claims were made that it didn't have windows...it is a blue color...i have seen the videos that show what appears to be a bomb/missile like device attached underneath and near the nose of the second plane...both planes have a flash/apparent explosion occur just prior to impact...this explosion appears to have been used to create the openings/the initial piercings into these towers and also ignited the jet fuel that was carried by each plane...the sides of the TWC towers were not solid-steel re-inforced concrete...they had long narrow glass windows in them...thus weaknesses. if, the explosions occurred from the inside of the TWC towers (in the areas where the two planes hit) the explosions and debris/damage pattern would spheric and outward away from the point of detonation (in general). i don't see this.
so, the planes that hit the towers could have been re-inforced for better penetration. bombs/missile like devices appear to have been used to penetrate the exterior of the buildings and ignite the remaining jet fuel into large fireballs (the trajectory of the fireball and debris from the second plane hit appear to be consistent with the velocity of impact...whatever it actually was). thus, these two planes create the fires that remained until both structures were destroyed via the entire very long series of explosions at all levels to completely compromise the integrity of the internal/central steel main support structure at all level including the basement (sub-basement? that term is confusing...anyway).
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: easymoney101 who wrote msg# 4899 Date:9/23/2007 2:40:11 AM
Post 4912 of 4923
i still disagree. the damage to the exterior of both towers at the entry points are plane shaped and off-set...not horizontal. using an explosive charge to help penetrate the buildings (which are also mostly empty space...with steel, glass and concrete...largely held together by the steel welds and rivets/bolts) and start the fires. both explosions seemed to eliminate much of the planes as well (this bother me a bit. i'm tired of people talking about aluminum and other metals being vaporized...the damn things have to melt and become liquids first. those kind of temps were not likely reached for long either. Boiling Point of Aluminum: 2467.0 °C (2740.15 K, 4472.6 °F)
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/collapse/crashdetail.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/collapse/wtc1gash.html
Slides Index http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/collapse/slides.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/
Empire State Building plane crash
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0311.shtml
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: bartermania who wrote msg# 4912 Date:9/23/2007 3:04:28 AM
Post 4913 of 4923
Frank A. De Martini: "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it -- that was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting -- it really does nothing to the screen netting."
Frank A. De Martini, who had first came to work at the WTC after the 1993 bombing was killed in the 2001 attack.
http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/911mysteries/index.html
WTC Construction Manager: Towers Were Designed to Take Numerous Plane Crashes
This clip is taken from Anthony Hilder's documentary, 9/11: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/141104designedtotake.htm
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: easymoney101 who wrote msg# 4915 Date:9/23/2007 10:42:58 AM
Post 4917 of 4923
one might wonder why such, if it is or was true, was not done with the pentagon. that scene was much better contolled and policed than NYC. they could've just made an excellent movie of it and released it to the public if, they had that much power and control. yes...think.
NYC...tuesday moring around 9am on a sunny september morning...and millions of eyes and ears are around the crime scene. and after the first plane hit...many people of the metropolis were looking at and watching the tower(s) (both from Manhattan and NJ)...and private regular folks with their own cameras. an explosion occurred as each jet hit and the tubular steel exterior construction/frame/grid...with concrete...was broken and the plane went into the building. for the sake of my pov...the interiors of TWC buildings were quite open on each floor...excluding the elevator/center section.
anyway...i don't know it all...and i never will. i think i understand the central points about 911/what happened that day and what it means regardless
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: bartermania who wrote msg# 4917 Date:9/23/2007 11:54:19 AM
Post 4922 of 4923
some photos of the interior of the WTC towers and related info./pics/and sites...more later maybe/maybe not
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=23092438
Posted by: bartermania
In reply to: bartermania who wrote msg# 4922 Date:9/23/2007 12:19:12 PM
Post 4923 of 4923
the external steel was put togther from pre-fab sections/units...forming an interlocking grid/wall/structure. the exterior was not made from continuous steel I-beams or any such thing. it was put and welded/rivetted/bolted together in sections. these seams being possible weak points/the weak points. the interior of the towers were very much open except for the center elevator shaft/main weight supporting/stabilizing part of the building. the concrete and steel truss floors would provide internal resistance to the planes hitting the building's exterior...thus, creating flex/stress and/or breaking points where the external tubular steel sections joined (especially, between the floors). and so, they failed...proportionate to the force applied to them. if, some exterior WTC material appears to be pointing outward in these openings...i would say it was from the fireballs' blowback/explosions...the outward force of the fireballs/explosions wrought on the building and not the plane's inward largely linear force/momentum/trajectory.
supposedly, the towers occupied roughly a full square acre of space. the area they were built on and enclosed/covered. their ground level "foot print". that's big.
- I will not be a slave to or of death cults - n/b/k - NO QUARTER FOR CORRUPTION http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=3319
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