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Actually its 5x the base amount.
20% is 1/5th not 1/4th
So 58Mx 5 is the number.
The LP -v the Swipe is essentially the same... just a slight of hand trickeration on the uninformed public.
Only real difference is... the companies keep and are able to reinvest the earnings and in this interest rate environment is worth something.
How this ends... nobody knows. Its all speculative at this point of the temporary con-serveratorship.
I'd like to believe that eventually someone will speak up; and unmask the thieves and the roaches will run from the room so the peoples business can be done without the hooligans.
The goal here should have always been put the entities back to the shareholders after using them to calm the markets; but that's when greed got in the way and that's where we are now....
Yep, Pat the government can do pretty much whatever they want.
Calabria is basically an idiot. His opinions are no better than an 8 year old and he knows little about what has gone on here.
Just a guy looking for a free meal.
Here government is and has always been the problem.
Hey government too bad you have immunity for your stupidity...
Now drop your weapons and get out of the way. Let the private sector back in. The private sector that made fannie and freddie capable of withstanding your onslaught and treasonous takeover....
Government... go home.
its the purchaser = fhfa can call it null... not the public... not the entities... ... so this goes no where. why would the fhfa give up the golden goose?
With no warrants taking stock that's no theirs; assuming return of funds of inexcess of what was taken and fair value is north of $200 per.
Not just that... its that only the "purchaser" which we assume said purchaser ... although they didn't really purchase anything... may deem such by notice.... do you really think the treasury is going to cough up 300 Billion willingly?
Its time for this to end. Enough already. Set FandF free.
Mike,
The warrants should expire unused. Will they be renewed?? They could... lets hope they've had enough of these shenanigans.
Yes, the "loans" forced upon fandf have been fully OVERPAID and the liquidation preference they cite is just another attempt to steal. Hopefully, someone smart enough in DC will cull that too.
As for "proceeds" helping whatever if the warrants were to be "exercised" ... well thats chump change to these two. Purchase "price"... is like 1/100000 or a cent per common share. So its like some stupid amount of around $20,000 for stock that today would have a fair value of $240 Billion. Obviously a theft; since the warrants were simply taken.
They'll likely be some sort of "hit" piece put out by some blow hard like a Carney or that other useless parrot head we heard 2-3 years ago.
Anything to keep the share price down.
This is silly.
Sorry, I too favor most of Howard's writing and opinions. But, by far anyone that advocates for the theft of personal property like Pagliara and Howard do not represent me and are counter to the good values of Americans and what it stands for.
not likely... carney was far smarter and less of a donkey.
O, and he didn't really have an agenda, was just believing what his handlers told him. This other person or persons, is working against a well funded narrative of miss information, lies and deceit, intended to distort, confuse and try to compress the stock price. Probably works for the treasury.
Wrong.
Its easy to get to the end - while this wouldn't end the conservatorship..
That's not really important... what is ... is returning the value to the shareholders - the rightful owners of the companies.
Fannie and freddie aren't for the government's pillage...
1. Announce that sps have been fully repaid.
2. Announce that the liquidation preference is invalid.
3. Apply for listing on a national exchange
4. Tender the warrants back to the companies
5. Repay the overage back to the companies (taken in excess of repayments).
6. work on a stable relationship with government and its oversight.
Wow! ... Someone who actually gets it.
The share price the day before the invasion is not indicative of the "fair value" of the companies at that time.
Fair value... there's that word again.
Fair value and market value aren't the same thing... why?
It it were then ... why do buyouts of companies occur at above market price the day before?....
So, thinking of fair value....
Fair value puts common share price over $150 a share....
jps came w stated dividends
what happened to that
oh a contract change
nevermind
It simply means that the plaintiffs have not agreed upon a plan of distribution of the pittance to be received.
Pending that resolution a final judgement can be entered.
That uponwhich would be appealable... by whomever appeals.
Maybe me...
Cause its only around 100Billion or 2... light.
Peace
Yep, just pay us fair value. ...
Sold.
Ultimately control and ownership over 20% is key. Yes as low as 20%
Here is how...
Since government's executive branch exerts control through fhfa and they have warrants for over 20% of the common stock ownership which are "in the money - ie. the exercise price is less than the share price" while they've chosen not to acquire the interest, they are deemed to have done so for this purposes of consolidation (and outstanding share count) and have all of which would be required for consolidation.
Why they've not added this to the national debt is because they don't want to... the 79.99% being less than 80% is really irrelevant.
Problem is the accounting rules... say... put in on the books... as the government has "control" and significant ownership interest by virtue of the unexcerised fruit of a poison tree warrants that will inflict scores of lawsuits if ever used.
Control is the kicker they ignored. Some yahoo loser came up with that 79.9% thing when in reality anything over 30% and control meant they should be on the consolidated books..
But hey, why does it matter... apparently not as one fraud begets another fraud and government can do whatever they want as the us supreme court has ruled. Which of course is a big joke as they are in the pockets of the government too. Only the jury of 8 saw thru it quickly and not being on the take reasoned... oops... no no no no ....
too bad the government doesn't have honest people in their midst.
Lu,
Sadly... poor timmy has lost his way... when even considering treasury and greedyment get more of fannie and freddie for FREE... its a travesty.
Problem is the artificial made up "rules" are keeping these two down..
Let my people go... is a cry heard round the world.
The government is the problem here and has always been the problem.
They are thieves - at some point some honest people may just infiltrate government..
Saying they'll exit is not hard... predicting when is another. Will it be in my lifetime?
What should take mere minutes has been scuttled about for 15 years.
Why?
Easy, the government is "greedy".
The incentive to return the entities to their owners properly are the taxes the government will reap and economic stimulus it will create that will permeate the landscape in addition to simply doing the right and just thing. Taxes on the hundreds of billions this will create will be very very large.
That is incentive enough.
pure speculation.... and completely untrue... but believe what you will, however wrong it is.
There was never a deal. A deal infers fairness, truth and honesty amongst two independent parties. Which this never was or is... so just save it for the lemmings.
Pass on tim howard... he too wants the government to take 80% of the company for free. Very unamerican.
Pags ... unfortunately... he's a turncoat.
Wish him well, but he's not on my team or any team for Fannie and Freddie. He's literally willing to give away 400Billion dollars and accept pennies in return.
No thank you... I'll pass.
Probably should look up the meaning of fair value.
Fair market value... is exactly that ... fair... not suppressed market value... fair value based on the earnings of these two would place common shares somewhere north of $150 (conservatively.... like the play on words) or considerably more.
Thus if the government took 80% of the companies they'd owe around $240Billion to the shareholders (likely a lot more)... now are they ready to pay for what they take?
Crazy thing is... we get back to fair value and the companies are returned to the shareholders, like they should be, fandf create so much value (this is where it gets tuff, in that government knows how valuable they are and know that returning them to share holders simply "gives" them that value when they could still... just be taking it for free) that government ... being greedy wants it all, becuase they can. When they should just be happy with the income taxes off of the various selling of shares, dvidends they'll give off and of course economic impact (and yes more taxes) ...
Its estimated that for every $1 spent it can create another $2 in economic impact... so, in our system that's at least $3 ... at marginal tax rates thru the system = $1 in taxes (fed, state, local, excise, vat, etc.); thus merely returning the stock to the shareholders does more for the government than continuing the steal.
So, yes... fair value and return of reasonable dividends... at fair value fandf stock would be too large a % of my holdings, so i'd diversify some, and reallocate; and spend some.
Plus no more new lawsuits....
or after that date... remember they control both sides of the table... and can attempt to do whatever they want.
$50 is about book value... $250 is about fair value.
Yes... i want fair value... so i can sell my shares and give the government $50 bucks a share in taxes...
Sorry bro...
FHFA has taken over all your rights. Including the rights to do as they like, this would include voting for some "conversion" or redemption or whatever they want in the best interest of them and the public it serves... at no benefit to any shareholder as they claim no duty to anyone but themselves.
Sounds sorta stupid... but that's what's been promulgated thus far.
Lamebreath was wrong by limiting damages... this is a continuing thing until fixed. Fair value of the shares is quite large. net book value is over $50. Until they return the company to the shareholders the damages are continuing.
Poor lammy didnt get it and may not understand financial concepts...
Sad really.
So... 20 years.... in...
the warrants will expire or the govenrment will give them life with another amendment... for 5-10 years more.
Sad that the government controls both sides of the table... as there's never been any negotiation... just how much do you think we can get buy with or put over on the public...
100/2 = 50 btw...
So... book value at $50 should be the minimum