Investing in Timber

[Koabo]

Finca Leola made a first payment to 37 investors (I am one of them) from a first teak thinning of 2003-5 trees.

[Chrisk1]

Has anyone read the attached article www.internationalappraiser.com/2013/05/tropical-american-tree-farms-update-and.html? People are claiming that they started culling the wood at TATF. It also states that Eduardo Moreira is responsible for all TATF´s affairs in Mrs. Brunner's absence. It appears that he has Power of Attorney. His email is [e-mail] and office phones are 506-22899592 , 506-22883208 , or cell 506-83162611 Attorney. Has anyone ever heard of Eduardo Moreira or communicated with him? Apparently Mrs. Brunner has been sued in Costa Rica so she may not be going back there. Does anyone have any idea of what is going on? Thanks!

[mattyo5]

Fridays are free to post between 4-5pm ...

please post any news of TATF here. Their website has contained nothing new in many years. Does anyone know about thinnings, raleo, sales, anything?

out of the thousands of tree owners, has nobody gone done there recently?

Thanks

-Mattyo

[mattyo5]

Hey all, remember Fridays 4-5pm you can post here for free.

Has anyone heard ANYTHING about ANY news regarding TATF? Has ANYONE been down to the farms? I have heard nothing at all, and the website is many years behind on updates.

anyone? anyone?

-Mattyo

[Chrisk1]

20 years and no money!!!! Anyone have any info that can help me out? Any Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[a1derfullife]

A short update on TATF.

As of ~ April 10, 2013, TATF's websites are no longer online. TATF has only intermittently replied to e-mails or phone calls for several years, and then only to provide vague assurances that more information would be forthcoming soon (it never was).


A1

[belmontx]

Another tree owner is attempting to contact others in order to get concerted and cooperative action underway in order to eventually recover investment funds. Several of these efforts have been made during the past three years; this is the latest, and is worth your attention. Contact me at [e-mail] to be included on the list of interested tree owners and put in touch with the initiator.
belmontx

[belmontx]

Still no news of any TATF activity on behalf of its tree-owners.
I have 40 correspondents who have bought trees during the past 20 years and none for the past several years have reported any notice of maintenance of their specific trees by the company.
I will post here if I am told of anything being done, tree-owner on site visits made (last we heard they were not permissible), or any word being communicated.
belmontx

[mattyo5]

Ok, well, haven't posted in a while due to not being available on friday's between 4-5pm while this board is still open and free.

Obviously Steve has died, and Sherry is in her own bit of trouble. Though this is disheartening, due to the size of the operation TATF has this *should* have little to no effect on the daily workings of the business. This is a multi multi million $$ investment scheme, and for it to hinge on Steve is not a good thing. Hopefully Sherry will be able to play catch up.

The one thing I didn't see in Sherry's letter was her plan of attack for playing catchup. Therefore, I am not confident in her ability. They are backlogged by literarlly MILLIONS of BF of lumber to be felled and milled and sold.

PLANBTOTRADE, I don't honest know about coordinating visits... I'm simply suggesting that it be done in some type of organized fashion. If TATF isn't providing answers, then tree owners are going to have to get them by other means ... thats all.

Anyway, hope my trees don't have heartrot! oh dear...

-Mattyo

[ptfly]

I read that as well...don't know what to think

Dear Tree Owners,

Thank you to so many of you for your heartwarming and kind messages about Steve’s passing. This is a very difficult time for our family and we appreciate your kindness, support and prayers.

After sending my e-mail a few weeks ago about Steve, much work has been accomplished. However, there is still a great deal of work to do. Steve was not only a principal of the company, he was the visionary. He had the vision of all the elements of our business and how to move everything forward. With Steve’s battle with cancer over the past two years, and in his weakened condition, especially in the final months of his life, the details of his plan were not always able to be executed.

With the loss of Steve, we are making every effort to shore up and reorganize the company as quickly as possible with limited funds and a reduced staff.

The following is an update:

Flooding:

As we have reported, the past rainy seasons in the area of our farms have been unusually intense, causing us to close the farms to visits and suspend thinnings.

The rains in late 2011 were especially prolonged, causing serious flooding and damage. More than 60,000 acres of land in Costa Rica was flooded by rivers or inundated from the intense rains. Unfortunately, that includes parts of several of our farms.

Because of the reduced staff on the farms, we don’t have specific reports back from all the farms, but it appears that the flooding and prolonged inundations have affected thousands of the trees.

To help explain the situation on our specific farms, rocks and material from slides upstream from our farms have filled some of the river courses and the rivers have spread out into the neighboring farms, in many cases sweeping away land, buildings, and trees. Fields bordering on the rivers at Campo Real, Santo Domingo, Capital, San Rafael, and Rio Blanco have largely all been affected. Also, some fields at San Rafael , Pilar and Salamá have areas that suffered from the water not draining fast enough. Mudslides are also always an isolated risk on any of the sloped areas on any of the farms.

Heart Rot in Older Trees:

We have recently discovered heart rot in some of the older trees. The standing trees from outward appearance appear to be strong and healthy and it is not until the tree is cut that the heart rot is exposed. We are working as quickly as possible to assess this situation and salvage as many of the trees as possible.

Thinnings:

You will recall that we suspended thinnings in 2009 when the lumber market fell due to the changes in the world economy.

Even with the fall in the lumber market, it has been recommended that we recommence thinnings on a limited scale. We are working very quickly to conduct thinnings on farms before the heavy rains begin again.

Please do keep in mind that, as we have written in several issues of our Tree Owners News, the young wood from the early thinnings has little or no value.

Future Plantings:

Future tree plantings have been suspended so that we can concentrate completely on thinnings, farm clean up, and reorganization.

May 18, 2012 Tico Times Article:

As I was preparing to send this Tree Owner update, The Tico Times published an article critical of TATF and I will attempt to briefly address the major concerns here.

Investment projections and other claims – At no time did TATF promise investment returns. We provided projections, but no guarantees. We made clear that early thinnings would have little if any commercial value. Our website does not claim that our company is one of the largest teak growers in Costa Rica .

Distributions to Tree Owners – Contrary to what the article states, TATF has in fact issued approximately $1.6 million in distributions to Tree Owners.

Number of Tree Owners – The article correctly states that we had over 3,000 individuals, companies and trusts enlisted in the project in 2007. The number of new Tree Owners did not thereafter grow appreciably due largely to untrue propaganda that began appearing on a website known as InvestorsHub, which frightened away new potential investors. The misinformation, which was largely fomented by one of our competitors in the teak business (without disclosing that fact), severely damaged our company’s good reputation. This occurred as Steve was fighting his first battle with cancer. We lacked the time, energy and financial resources to mount a legal challenge against these slanderous attacks. At least one of the parties responsible for this effort to undermine our company, I believe, was a source for The Tico Times article.

Ownership of farms – We have always accurately represented the number and size of our tree farms. Some of them are titled through corporations other than TATF S.A.

Issues with Caja – We have always attempted to comply with all Costa Rica laws and regulations, especially in regard to our employees. We have in fact had a long-running dispute with the Caja over underpayment of withholding taxes. The problem began when a trusted senior employee of ours who was responsible for making those payments failed to do so, and never informed us. When we found out, we immediately terminated him from our employment and have sought to resolve the issue with the government. Interest on the disputed sum has accrued while our lawyers have tried to negotiate a settlement of the government’s claims. There is no denying that our dispute with the Caja has caused operational problems for us. In his final months Steve was attempting to obtain a loan in order to settle the Caja’s claim, but was unable to do so.

Individual complaints - I will not address publicly the complaints of the individual Tree Owners who are quoted in the article. While there is some validity to what some of them have stated, they also contain some misleading inaccuracies. For example, one of the complaining Tree Owners refused to communicate with us by e-mail, as we repeatedly requested, in order to reduce the likelihood of misunderstandings between us. Another Tree Owner never actually paid for her trees as she claimed, but was given credit for them. Another failed to mention that he has received several thousands of dollars from TATF. Another did not mention that he is a business competitor of TATF.

Poor communications – This, I am sad to say, is a valid criticism. As mentioned, we have been operating our business in a difficult economy, with very limited staff, dwindling financial resources, and under the duress of Steve’s two bouts with cancer. His poor health and my attention to his recovery are the major reasons why we got so far behind. For this I sincerely apologize.

Full Disclosure:

I am scheduled to inspect many of our farms with our advisors in the upcoming weeks. I will make as many visits as possible, but I just learned that my trip will have to be cut short because I, too, have been diagnosed with cancer. In caring for Steve over the last year, I neglected my own health, but am now scheduled to undergo surgery in the United States . I am hopeful of a good prognosis.

I will remain in consultation with advisors and will continue to write with updates as they are available. I ask for your prayers, your understanding and support, and your continued patience.

Warm regards,

Sherry

Sherry Brunner

Tropical American Tree Farms

[belmontx]

A Costa Rican newspaper exposes the TATF operation. Click on this link to read the article in the Tico Times, one of the country's major newspapers and the main English speaking one: http://www.ticotimes.net/Current-Edition/Top-Story/Investors-Where-s-our-money-_Friday-May-18-2012

[a1derfullife]

I received the same message, and replied with my condolences.

A1

[ptfly]

I rcvd this note from them recently and then searched for death info and found this old link. Anyone else get the email from her?

Dear Tree Owners,

It is with great sadness that I am writing to you at this time. After a lengthy battle with cancer, Steve passed away on March 25, 2012. I apologize for not contacting you about this sooner, but I am sure you can appreciate the grief we have been experiencing.

We are currently busy moving forward without Steve and may not be able to respond promptly to individual inquiries but we will try to provide ongoing updates. Please be sure that we have your current contact information. Changes can be sent to [e-mail] .

Warmly,

Sherry

Sherry Brunner

Tropical American Tree Farms



http://ourpersonaltestimony.com/

[abnrgrrvn]

For TATF tree owners, it is very important to understand:

1.Why TATF/Raleo/TAH value-add, particularly for younger teak trees, is so important for our IRR. And, that there is no TATF obligation to value-add.

2.Why, under normal circumstances, selling only logs does not maximize IRR.

3.What "h&p" cost actually covers: only felling, sectioning, milling, & air-drying--nothing else.

4.When, and if, "care & management fees" are deducted from tree owner proceeds.

5.What TATF projections actually assume.

6.Not TATF, but another entity, bought the clear-cut/flooded trees under separate agreements with individual tree owners--made in advance.

For the previous few posts, it seems these key concepts in our TATF agreements, are not clearly understood.

[a1derfullife]

Abn; Since you have not provided detailed $ amounts,

I was able to get some numbers from another tree owner.

This tree owner had ~ 40 trees left per original 100 trees planted, and received ~ $2000 dollars per original 100 trees - less than the tree owner originally paid many years ago. This works out to $50/tree. The amount paid to the tree owner is only ~ 12% of what is projected on TATF's website for the current value trees of this age, and only ~ 35% of my estimate for the true market value of the trees (so not only is TATF overstating the current value of its trees by a factor of ~ 3, they only paid tree owners ~ 1/3 of the actual value of the trees they cut).

Another possibility is that TATF paid tree owners a reasonable price for the trees, but that the trees only contained 1/3 as much wood as the projections on TATF's website project they should have at this age.

A1

[belmontx]

Since abner doesn't care to reveal the details of his "distribution", let me help.

From my list of information-sharers only one correspondent has reported being notified by TATF of the rain damage to his trees. He ultimately received slightly less than two/thirds of his original purchase price for 100 '96 teak trees; after culls and lost trees he was paid for the wood from 41 and was given 2K in return for his ownership papers for all the original 100. He has not viewed the site so has no way of knowing how accurate the report was.

At any rate, two thirds as a refund in exchange for ownership is way better than the nothing it seems everybody else has been getting for their unaffected trees (although this amount is 1/10th of the advertised value after 16 years).

If anyone else ever receives this offer, jump on it. Sixty-fjve cents on the dollar for TATF trees bought ten years ago and thought to be a sour investment turns out to be a godsend for those who never thought they would ever see a penny back from their purchase price.

belmontx

[abnrgrrvn]

Thank you for your inquiry, A1

TATF contacted me about the potential damage; they organized the clear cutting and coordinated the proceeds distribution from the purchaser.

Same with the other 2-'96 teak tree owners that I know personally.

Believe the same was done with a significant # of other tree owners on, at least, el Capital farm and maybe 1-2 other farms.

Sorry, I do not have specifics about other tree owners as TATF holds that information in confidence.

It is a bit difficult to determine the $/cu.m. that was received as some of our '96 teak trees had been thinned once; some twice.

Also, I do not believe "I am a special case," I think this was a special situation where TATF indicated it was in our best interest to have the '96 teak clear cut.

If the trees were not going to continue to mature, as all our other holdings, I was personally convinced this was the 100% correct course of action.

All our other holdings continue to mature and we are hopeful the prices will continue to escalate--that is in all tree owner's best interest, I belive.

[a1derfullife]

Abnrgrrvn;

Would you care to share the price per cubic meter you received for your teak?

Also, you mentioned that your remaining trees continue to be well-looked after. All the other reports I've received are that no thinning or other maintenance is being done on TATF's farms.

Finally, how did you contact TATF? I have e-mailed and called them several times in the past few months. None of my e-mails in this time frame have received responses. When I called, no live person answered the phone - just an answering machine. When I left messages, my calls were not returned. I know of several other TATF tree owners who've had the same experience.
Anyone can call or e-mail TATF to verify my comments about their lack of response. Their e-mail is [e-mail]. Their phone numbers are 1-800-788-4918 and 011-506-2289-9624

It seems like you're a special case here - the only TATF tree owner I know of who is receiving distributions and the only TATF tree owner who is receiving communications from the company. Why is that?

A1

[abnrgrrvn]

This is to confirm significant $ U.S. distributions

We are not:

Relatives of Steve & Sherry Brunner

Friends of the TATF owners

In any way connected to TATF/Raleo/TAH

During the last several months, we were contacted by TATF to indicate the opportunity to clear cut a significant quantity of teak trees that could be potentially affected by highly abnormal rainfall and river flow adjacent to fields where we own '96 Teak trees.

We elected to have those stands clear cut and take the available $ proceeds.

I'm happy to report TATF coordinated numerous operations and wired the agreed-upon proceeds in U.S Dollars.

I personally know of 2 other TATF tree owners that had similar experiences with this situation--and believe there are many more.

They are not friends, nor relatives of the TATF owners--but also appreciated the coordination, communication, and honesty of the Brunners.

Although the situations were somewhat unfortunate, we are satisfied that our best interest were looked after.

Further, our remaining holdings (both Teak and native species) continue to mature and continue to be well-looked-after.

We are looking forward to: continued tropical timber growth, installation of significant value-add capacity, and harvesting-- those will confirm our faith in all the fine folks at Tropical American Tree Farms, Raleo, and Tropical American Hardwoods.

[planbtotrade]

Matty,

How do propose coordinating the visit? I do not get answers when I inquire about a visit.
In fact, I do not get any reply at all...

I did get a reply from www.tatffraud.com after registering.

I think the above speaks for itself.

P.S. The tatf web site is an embarrassment as there is nothing new for years. It takes little effort to take a few pictures of activities. Leads one to conclude that there are no activities to document.


Planb

[mattyo5]

Ok, lets make this simple.

Non-tree owners shouldn't be posting here, especially in advising other tree owners to take action against a company they have zero vested interest in.

2ndly, AB, if you have something to say, say it.

3rdly, Tree owners need to stop assuming things, and start gathering data for themselves, and preferably sharing it here. After looking at TATF's website, i'm embarrassed for them. Still, we have ZERO clue as to the status of the farms because no credible source has been down there lately and reported directly back here. ie, lets stop complaining and get tree owners down to look at their trees. I went in 09 and took photos. Nobody has taken photos since then. We have ZERO evidence of whats going on currently. This is half our fault, and half TATF... frankly, PONY UP INVESTORS AND GET DOWN TO COSTA RICA and see stuff for yourself. THEN feel free to come back and comment here.

-Mattyo

[abnrgrrvn]

jack of "mia" trying to sell services of simon of "ny"

Seems a non-TATF tree owner is attempting to convince TATF tree owners to hire a class-action lawyer.

Maybe there is more here than meets the eye?

Interesting, very interesting!

What's next?

[belmontx]

Go to the http://tatffraud.com/ website to consider joining with other tree-buyers who are seeking response and redress from TATF. The previous belmont post is mine. It said the same thing, but this is to clarify that it was from me. The referenced website has been established by an owner of TATF trees.
Also there is another site which will enable you to view TATF's advertisements and projections each year from 1999 forward so you can document what you were told before you bought your trees. I received this from one of my correspondents:

"Today I went to the TATF website to look at the projections and see about how much I should have made by now (none of which I have received of course). I noticed the projections that are on the website today are not the same ones that were there when I made my investments (they are lower now). I found a website that has archives of a lot of websites going all the way back to the 90's, including the TATF. If anyone wants to see what exactly was on the TATF website in the past they can do the following:
1.) Copy and paste all of the following into your browser: http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http://www.tropicalhardwoods.com
2.) Select the year you want to view at the top, then click the specific day highlighted in blue (not all days are available, usually only one or two per month)
I figure this might be helpful to the other tree owners since it may have been several years since they placed their orders and could help jog their memories if they want to see exactly what it was that was promised when they placed their orders.".

My email is [e-mail]. It continues to be a tree owner's clearing house for up to date factual information about TATF. You cannot obtain it from the company which only seems to communicate with prospective, not existing, tree owners.

belmontx

[gistheman]

I'm not sure of the 'belmontx' and belmontx1 differentiation, but the website seems legit. I got response with an update from the lawyer, who is a tatf tree owner, after I gave the initial information. There is no obligation to participate. Another major investor I know plans to go meet him and go over strategy.

[schaef]

OK

Who is belmontx1? Is that you, belmontx, or is somebody using a similar name to try to bank on your name recognition?

I'm not sure whether to register or not, will I just be giving my name to the next fraud artist that wants to abuse me?

[belmontx1]

Collective action by TATF tree-buyers
I was contacted by an investor in TATF trees and given this link to his website: http://tatffraud.com/
Everyone who bought into this company's tree sales plan should view this site and fill out the information requested. This is the first step in possibly gaining redress through group action.
belmontx1

[belmontx]

Does it matter what these prices are vis-a-vis people who bought TATF trees? They can't access their trees, get no response to their requests for status, cannot locate the TATF office nor owner of the farms.

This is an example of a current report I received from one of the tree-owners who was in the area, trying to get information to report to others:

"Nothing to report from CR, because nothing is happening. As you have stated contacting the company is impossible, the farms are not being maintained, many are not readily assessable from the paved highways, even if one knew the exact location. The company debt at the Caja seguro social remains unchanged. The people I talked to in the Quepos area didn't even know of the farms, so the employment at the farms is not significant to the local economy. It appears the teak boom of the ninety's has evolved into the teak bust of the new 21st century, having little influence for the local population. There is no local market for juvenile teak of a scale that could provide hope for investors, if they could get their teak down off the mountain to market, which they can't. Sorry there isn't better news, or any news."

belmontx

[a1derfullife]

Re: New link for teak prices in Costa Rica



Cost Rica teak prices (ONF)

After re-reading the ONF publication, I realized that I had used the wrong prices in post 3388. The 'patio' prices referred to in the ONF publication were prices at the sawmill, not at the tree farm (my spanish is a little rusty). So the more relevant prices are in the pie, or field.

The correct prices are: ~$231/cubic meter (~$0.55/bd ft) for logs 20-29 cm in diameter, and ~ $323/cubic meter (~$0.76/bd ft) for logs > 30 cm in diameter.

A1

[a1derfullife]

New link for teak prices in Costa Rica

The link to OLAT (contained in post 3333), that provided teak prices in Costa Rica, is broken.

I found another source for Costa Rica teak prices, published by the Costa Rican forestry agency (ONF).

Costa Rica teak prices (ONF)

Unfortunately, the prices are in Costa Rican Colones per pmt. One pmt is equivalent to 1/462 cubic meters.

Doing the conversion (from table 2 in the report), the price for teak logs on the patio (ie cut, but not loaded into containers) is ~ $365/cubic meter for logs 20-29 cm in diameter, and ~ $500/cubic meter for logs > 30 cm (~ 12 inches) in diameter.

A1

[belmontx]

No visits possible to TATF, so far as we can tell. From my network of TATF tree-owners, seven have reported unsuccessful attempts to set up visits to their trees. Two have actually traveled to CR anyway, and then were not able to obtain permission to set foot on TATF farms. I have not heard from any who have successfully visited their trees since 2009. The two who went anyway were given the run-around via email while there and never located anyone to meet face-to-face. This operation has appeared to have shut down with no notice to tree owners.

belmontx

[justcfrall]

Hello to everyone I have not heard new information about the farms here lately but know that investors wood that was thinned has been wet and dry and exposed to the elements likely worthless by now. The old farm cabins rotting and falling apart.This is what I mean about the owners not caring for your investment.

Take care.

[mattyo5]

I'm glad people are still posting on IHUB here, but might I suggest any new posts come with pictures...real evidence of current events in/at TATF is the only thing that will dispell myths, accusations, etc etc etc. Was I really the last person on this IHUB board to visit TATF in 2009? ??? boy, we really need some other tree owners to step up and get down there and take some photos of current affairs.

TATF does continue to defy reason and simply keeps posting new "offers" on their website instead of posting any relevant news about the current status of our trees. This is stupid, and an embarrassment... for them and for the investors.

please post only if you have something new and relevant to the "WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON AT TATF CURRENLTY?" question.

-Mattyo

[belmontx]

The sales agent for this company attacks the messenger, not the message.

It would be a serious and costly mistake for anyone to believe the statements a sales realtor, and associate of TATF, make about the soundness and advisability of investing in this company. He advances the pitch still being used by this discredited investment scheme, while claiming to be a typical tree-owner. Consider the source when reading his entries.

Pertinent information is contained in the article "Scams in the Costa Rican teak tree farm market" See this link to a respected website discussing international investments http://www.internationalappraiser.com/2011/08/costa-rican-teak-farms-for-gringo.html.

Among points made in the article "Costa Rican teak farms for Gringo Investors" regarding the likelihood of scams is the following which points to the suspicion that TATF has become a fraud:

"Investment Promoters and Scam Artists
"Some investment promoters are not even selling land to investors, just the trees themselves. It is important to know that titled ownership in Costa Rica extends to real estate only; there are no tree titles. Any contract in English guaranteeing rights to tree ownership may not be enforceable in Costa Rican courts, either. How does one prove ownership of trees that are situated on someone else’s land?

"Many investors claim to be victims of scams in which plantation owners sell tree ownership and then charge a fee to manage the tree investment; Tropical American Tree Farms seems to have generated the most complaints. Most of the alleged fraudsters are gringos themselves, including Eric Heckler, who was a fugitive from mortgage fraud charges in Florida when found selling teak trees that weren't his before being extradited back to the U.S. in 2009.

"In the numerous listings of teak plantations for sale in Costa Rica, a sizeable discount per tree is apparent for the larger plantations, indicating an insufficient demand for the quantities of teak they are producing, with prices as low as $167 per standing tree for 20-year-old trees, which translates to about $244 per cubic meter (based on an average of .8639 cubic meters per 20-year-old teak tree), quite a bit lower than even the OLAT-published prices."

Many of these scams claim that mature teak lumber will be available from their trees age 20-25, when, in fact, 30-35 is the truth. They also claim ongoing revenue streams from the trimming of growing trees. Sound familiar?

belmontx

[abnrgrrvn]

Tree Owners can speak for themselves, as I do!

I am not, and never have been, a "spokesman" for TATF!

It is non-sensical for a Miami "professor" to be so pompous as to even think that he speaks for tree owners, especially when he, admittedly, is not--and never has been--a TATF tree owner.

These outrageous claims do nothing more than damage TATF/Raleo and all legitimate tree owners' financial interests.

[belmontx]

ABNER, as a TATF salesperson, repeatedly, and over the years, advertises in answer to factual posts by deceived owners of TATF trees. His reported experience is biased and at odds with the aggrieved actual customers of this company.

Newcomers to this forum would do well to read the posts of the past several years to get an accurate portrayal of the status of those who entrusted their money to TATF. In reviewing those posts screen out the rants of dupedbysteve who spammed this forum to near death, and the commercials for the company by abnrgrrvn who represents that company. What is left are the thousands of posts by disappointed and angry investors who sent millions of dollars to Mr. Brunner and have received nothing in return, and now do not even receive communication from him regarding inquiries about trees they own whose ages reach as old as 17-20 years. Until recently this forum was an open board for tree owners comments; now it is only available one hour per week and thus has virtually no activity except for ABNER, speaking for Mr. Brunner, and myself, speaking for the many tree owners who formerly posted here.

belmontx

[abnrgrrvn]

DOESN'T KNOW 'JACK'

Most who are frequent readers of this forum understand that there are legitimate tree owners with TATF who are genuinely interested in getting quality information from the TATF owners.

They also know that the most frequent "professorial" poster here, from Miami, is not now a tree owner, and, never has been.

It is quite amazing that so many tree owners' investments have been majorly harmed with the degrading and malicious postings by a very few intent on doing harm to TATF and all tree owners' financial interests.

Save some flooding issues over the years, all our trees continue to grow magnificently and gain value over the long term.

The TATF investment is not a short term "get rich scheme."

Rather, it is a 20 to 25 year, environmentally-sound project with great potential benefits.

While there are many who would like to have more and more-frequent information about their specific stand of trees, most understand that the desired information would not lead to a decision or action plan--only more time taken from the business of managing our tree investments.

Tree Owner News and TATF-exchanged emails are the very best sources of credible, factual information on our tree investments.

So, this is to suggest ignoring the ignorant 'jacks.'

[gistheman]

This is really bad news. Still taking money and not maintaining trees anymore. BTW. One of the major 'reformed' proponants that effectively spammed these two boards into this 'free friday' posting status seems to have disappeared this summer after spending time in IHUB jail.

[belmontx]

Duplicitous or fraudulent?

An observer familiar with TATF from a decade ago just returned from a visit to Costa Rica and reported that the former drying and storing facilities at the farms appear to be abandoned, the tarps blown off and disintegrated and the cut wood rotting. The sites of the farms where investor trees were located also appear abandoned and the trees stunted and not maintained. Where he had seen activity years ago none existed now. The original showcase farm is now blocked off with a cryptic sign marking it as a "sanctuary". He could find no signs of the owner nor of any employees. Years earlier he remembered seeing the same places bustling with activity.

Another tree-owner sent me ([e-mail]) this today, (I think regular readers of this forum will know who "investor in Cincinnati" is):
"Thanks again for your willingness to serve as a clearinghouse for those TATF investors who want to stay connected. It is indeed a very sad commentary on the Brunner’s that this type of forum is the only way for investors to obtain information. My message to the Brunner’s has, and will continue to be: Remain open and honest with your investors and give us the facts, however difficult they are. I don’t hold Sherry or Steve responsible for the severe recession that adversely impacted the price of tropical hardwoods. Nor do I hold them accountable for the wet weather that has ostensibly prevented them from getting into the woods to conduct thinnings. However, I do hold them responsible for failing to communicate in a transparent manner with existing tree owners while continuing to represent to prospective investors that the TATF is a thriving, growing business. Let me elaborate.

"I am a Certified Financial Planner® and Chartered Financial Consultant® with my own fee-only financial planning practice. Recently, I was working with a high net-worth businessman who had sold his business to a public company and received millions in sale proceeds. He invested a portion of the sale proceeds in public related securities (stocks, bonds, etc.) but also made several investments in private partnerships. He is somewhat of an environmentalist and searched the internet for investment opportunities in timber that practiced sustainable forestry. Incredibly, he came across TAFF’s website, and inquired about an investment. Of course, Steve personally called him to tout the merits of investing in TATF. My client asked for references. He was given the name of an investor in Cincinnati, OH and called this gentlemen. He was told that he was very happy with his TATF investment and that he had received cash distributions from tree thinnings.

"Fortunately, the client mentioned to me his interest in investing in TATF. Of course, I gave him the “rest of the story”. When Steve called my client to “close the deal”, he informed him that he had talked to another TATF investor who had a different experience and that he would not be investing at this time.

"In my opinion, this type of behavior is duplicitous at best and fraudulent at its worst. I simply want Steve to “come clean” and give us the honest truth. I can be patient if I know that the current business difficulties are temporary. But, in the absence of any forthright communication, investors are led to assume the worst case scenario, which in my opinion is that Steve is running a Ponzi scheme."

[belmontx]

FREE POSTING HERE FRIDAYS, 4-5PM EST.
TATF tree-owners can continue to report their experiences regarding attempts to contact TATF, or visit their trees, on this forum without obtaining a premium membership -- at this Friday afternoon time only. It is important that this web presence continue so that prospective buyers can hear from present owners instead of only getting information from the misleading TATF website, as well as providing an information exchange for existing owners.

[belmontx]

Tropical American Tree Farms status report.

None of the TATF owners with whom I have been in contact (34) this year have been able to communicate with the company. Seven have tried within the past month, using email, telephone, and letter. None have received responses. This is a continuation of the situation reported during the past two years. Two have told me they emailed TATF posing as prospective buyers recently and both received full and descriptive responses offering sales of trees at 20% off, refective of the website offers. The deceptive website for TATF exists largely unchanged from years ago when most tree owners, believing in the false projections, bought their trees.

It is likely that this company has become a cash receiver only, not tree farming, not tree maintaining. Existing tree owners do not receive answers to their inquiries about their trees, are not permitted to visit their trees, and do not hold valid and enforcable contracts for their purchases. Their trees, if they ever existed, are growing on Mr. Brunner's land and are completely within his possession. He has both the trees and the money spent for them, and he apparently plans to keep both.

As for Steve Brunner, we do not know if he still lives in Costa Rica, whether he still owns the land investors' trees reportably inhabit, nor even if he still exists on this planet.
Being a self-proclaimed spiritual man, perhaps he believes a higher authority will ultimately judge him favorably.

belmontx

[a1derfullife]

Unfortunately, this is typical of TATF.

There's no mention on their website that they've stopped thinning trees, or that they're not allowing tree owners to visit their trees, even though items 4 and 21 of their tree order form state:

'As your trees grow, it is silviculturally recommended to periodically remove some of your trees in thinning harvests to make room for the continued growth of your remaining trees.'

and

'As an owner of trees in our plantation, you or anyone you may designate have the right to inspect your trees at any reasonable time.'

Most of TATF's updates to their website have been in the form of new, 'very special opportunity, for a limited time' offers to sell trees at a 'discount', just like the latest offer. Meaningful updates for existing tree owners are few and far between, and the information about our investment we have been able to glean has been uniformly bad.

A1

[justcfrall]

TATF and owners just added a new ad on their website that allows any sucker to take 20 percent off of an order of trees to celebrate their 20 years.. So if somebody buys 100 teak trees advertized for about 5500 dollars minus the 20% you send them about 4400 dollars and in twenty years down the road according experiences of most all 70 or so people on this board and others you get back nothin!!!!!

The website is so welldone it looks like a investment,

scam so far ! My goodness be carefull ..

The owners cashing the checks who bought real estate have massed a fortune .

[belmontx]

Your experience is exactly that of the other buyers of TATF trees. Following are reports from buyers of this company's trees, chosen at random over the past three months and edited to preserve their anonymity. These are contained in emails I have been receiving from investors in Steve and Sherry's Tropical American Tree Farms. They own trees dating back to 1993. I have received no positive reports, only those from disappointed and angry buyers, not from real estate people from Ohio who attempt to sell TATF trees to unsuspecting customers.

First tree owner: "I am currently in Costa Rica on vacation. I sent an e-mail over a month ago asking to visit the farms. I just received an e-mail that stated "they would not allow any visits to their farms this year". I am glad to see more people speaking about their investments made with TATF. I hope to hear more people speaking up. I think my investment is lost, I hope that we can inform others before more mistakes are made."

Another investor: "Does anyone even know where Steve is living or hiding. I would love to know just so I could ask him like a man as to what he was thinking when he did this to us. He should be ashamed. I did meet him once and he and his wife and son all seemed very nice and trusting."

And another: "I was reading some of the posts on the Investorhub forum regarding investing in trees, specifically with TATF. I too am a TATF tree owner and have began to have my doubts about the company. I have some trees planted in ...., which by TATF's projections should have already been thinned and I should have already received some sort of payment at about year 7 or so and thereafter. But like others on the forum, I have not seen the first dime yet. I have e-mailed them several times to inquire. My nice e-mails will usually get a general fluffy reply. My more direct e-mails usually go unanswered."

Another: "What a frustrating experience.!
I just now received a response from TATF. ( I have asked for the wood ). They will ship the wood up if I send some $$$. . I suspect that I will never see any of the lumber and have to suffer through " 'Your beautiful lumber continues to travel to you Would you like to buy more?' Thought I did my homework on this one, guess not."

Yet another tree buyer: "Agreed on the clever details. I was able to dig up an archived site dating back to 2001. It was there. I'll email what I report to my brother in law within a couple of days, when a couple of more details are cleared up. The Brunners are conning people, but using the safe haven of CR and inserting that disclaimer, they won't be prosecutable under CR laws. The best that could be hoped for would be to close down the IRA and other sheltered investments under US law, through US channels. If the US Government, specifically the IRS would no longer accept TATF as a valid investment vehicle, some folks would not fall into the trap....It didn't take much to spot the inconsistencies once I was alerted to the problem. "

And another: "Ive been reading the posts on here for a couple years and have never posted myself. I live in Ohio and have bought hundreds of trees. As with everyone else it started out all good. There was even a company in Columbus that was going to have a showing of furniture if there was enough interest. I never inquired about it but for years I was so into owning trees and knowing I was helping so many people have jobs and replenishing the rain forest and bringing back the animal life as well as making hugh profits. The line I always loved was how nothing could stop these prices from spiraling out of sight. I just didnt know it was a downward spiral. Its an obvious scam a this point .... I've heard nothing for years and now don't expect to ever hear from them again. What a big disappointment this is. Ive told all my family and friends and always strongly rejected the idea that this wasn't on the up and up. Steves big cancer story and always he and Sherry talking about how blessed they were to have us all supporting them and yadda yadda . what a farce. I have a large archive of everything ever sent to me by them including the vcr tape that was originally sent with the intro pkg. Since they originally were in real estate I have always assumed they somehow are related to the people who run the brunner land co. in central ohio."

These reports are representative and were culled from a large number of them I have received since offering to collect information from TATF investors at my email address: [e-mail]. Please report any recent developments concerning your the existence and maintenance of your trees. In the meantime post free on this forum between 4-5PM Fridays only. The sole posts here positive of TATF originate from a company sales representative.

belmontx

[planbtotrade]

MY EXPERIENCE

After Many Years of Owning Trees at TATF

Thinning - NONE (Multiple were promised)
Distributions - NONE

Responses when attempt to contact the company
via email - NONE
via phone - NONE

Faith in TATF and or the Brunners = ????

airborne (ABN) ranger (RGR) ranger vietnam (RVN) or ABNRGRRVN has over 30K trees and but he gets responses, sells at least 2 container loads of lumber, continues to PUMP TATF, and seems to have a different experience with TATF.

Anyone else out there that actually gets responses from the company?

planb

[abnrgrrvn]

DISREGARD


Suggest this MIA poster be dis-regarded.

He, admittedly, is neither now a TATF tree owner, nor ever has been!

[belmontx]

Consult the previous 3 years of postings on this forum for details of the effect on investors of the sales practices of TATF. Prior to being spammed out of activity on this forum last fall almost 100 disappointed investors had posted their experiences after buying trees as old as 1993 teak. Virtually none had received any kind of return, nor were receiving any responses to their inquiries.
Disregard any TATF sales representative who shouts while posing as a normal investor on this forum. The company he represents continues to post on its Tropical American Tree Farms website projections with the same blatantly false advertising that years ago lured existing damaged investors.
Report suspected internet fraud to the FBI at www.ic3.gov/

belmontx

[a1derfullife]

PCT.V PCTZF.PK Another timber investment opportunity.

Prima Colombia Hardwood is a fairly new company, set up to do heli-logging in Colombia. Might be worth a look.

A1

[abnrgrrvn]

BEWARE OF POSTERS HERE WHO ANOINT THEMSELVES

They fraudulently claim to have "spoken" to many tree owners.

They pompously claim to "speak for many other tree owners;" tree owners can speak for themselves!

In documented cases, here on The Investor's Hub, they are either:

1. Disgruntled former TATF employees

2. Hucksters, who do not, in fact, own any TATF trees


They are trying to do nothing more than to do harm to all TATF tree owner's financial interests!

[belmontx]

Disregard TATF sales representatives who pose as normal investors on this forum. Actual investors' experiences are noted below.

I have been in contact with many TATF tree-owners. Everyone has a slightly different story to report but all are common in that they bought trees, sent money, and have not been getting responses from the company. After months of receiving emails ([e-mail]) from dozens of people who bought TATF trees during the past 18 years the following summarizes what I have learned:

1- None of them have obtained a return of any kind. They have lost hope that they will ever receive any of the periodic returns that were projected by Mr. Brunner so confidently on his TATF website (and still are), or that they will receive any further tangible communications from him in response to their inquiries.

2- They realize that the chances of them ever seeing any return whatsoever from their tree purchases are small.

3- They have become aware that their ownership of their trees is tenuous, at best, is extra-legal, and is outside their control. Since these trees reside on someone else's land (Brunner's for now, who knows who else later?), and the certificates were written in a language (English)not recognized for contracts by Costa Rican courts, they realize they have no claim for them. They have learned from posts on the Hub forum that other tree-owners' requests to remove their trees at their own expense have been refused by Brunner.

4- They have become aware that attempts to visit and view their trees are now failing since the TATF owner's representative has told them the tree farms are presently closed to tree-owners.

5- Their last thin hope for return of the money they sent to this company is that if they do nothing now, raise no complaint, join in no joint action, the company will revive on its own, begin collecting money again from new tree-buyers, and resume maintenance of existing trees. This ponzi-like hope, fanciful as it is, is all they have left and explains why the thousands who never posted on the Hub during its heyday stayed silent. It will be decades, of course, before any investor would know for sure that he has been cheated out of all of his investment.

6- None who contacted me have any idea what Steve and Sherry Brunner did with the millions of dollars they were sent other than buy more Costa Rican real estate. Those who were able to visit their trees prior this "not permitted" ruling found them small for their age, often stunted, and not trimmed properly nor the brush cleared in many cases.

7- All seem to be astonished that TATF continues to post its grossly deceptive website, complete with most all of the original implied periodic returns to its tree-buyers, and that who for some time now has stopped answering inquiries from his thousands of tree-buyers. They don't understand how this could come from an owner who portrays himself as a wholesome tree farmer and man of faith.

belmontx

[abnrgrrvn]

OUR EXPERIENCE

THE VALUE OF VALUE ADD ON TEAK

A few months back we sold another container of our teak, 15-16 years old, from TATF farms.
The lumber ranged in width from 2" to 6," while the lengths were 18" to 72"; thicknesses were 2/4 to 12/4.
The container carried to the U.S. over 10,000b/f and the lumber was dried, dimensioned, and S4S.
The value-add by TATF/Raleo/TAH allowed the selling price per board foot to be slightly over $7.45.

This, to us, demonstrates extraordinary viability/desirability of the strategies to add value to all possible thinnings and harvests by making flooring, panels, sawn & rotary veneer, and dimensioned lumber.

We have been TATF tree-owners for over 16 years and own thousands of '93-'96 teak trees in 18 different fields on these farms:
Campo Real
Santo Domingo
La Esperanza
Rio Blanco
el Capital

In addition, we own 9 native species in 9 fields on Campo Real, Santo Domingo, and Rio Blanco farms.
In addition to my having made a number of fishing/vacation trips to both coasts of Costa Rica over the years, our family made a wonderful Spring Break trip to Quepos to inspect our trees on the farms where we met both Mr. & Mrs. Brunner.

On almost all of our thinnings, we had elected to take the thinning credit to purchase additional teak trees.

In addition to the above sale, we sold teak in another container of TATF teak, also dimensioned, to the U.S. for a similar price per board foot.

And we have received some distribution of thinning proceeds from TATF.

Currently we are satisfied with decision to temporarily delay harvests until the market improves or the value adding is fully under way.

As this is a long-term project and investment, we fully understand that that about 88% of the current-purchase projected net proceeds come from the final 3 harvests of Teak--none of which have yet been done!

We have found the Brunners to be most honorable people over the past 16 years.

Also that the value-add they are working on to help all tree owners in this economy is way beyond anything agreed to.

They should be commended for being so constant and persistent in this endeavor.

Construction volume affects all wood markets throughout the world, and new home construction in the U.S. right now is running about 20-30% of the 2005 high.
The bright side for the not-too-distant future is that there is pent-up demand in the U.S.
Japan has designated $50 billion for reconstruction after their recent disaster; China has announced plans to build 36 million low-cost homes beginning this year; and China and Chinese companies are investing about $7 billion per year in the Caribbean--all of which points to a very bright future for the upcoming wood demand.

That should be wonderful for TATF and all TATF tree owners.