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Zeev Hed

08/17/02 10:18 AM

#16545 RE: jbennett53 #16543

jbennet, I disagree with you. Using taxation to "direct" the market to what is "conceived" to be beneficial (who decides, how do they know?), interferes with free market forces. By the way, super Capital gains is already on the book and if you hold the stock of a small company (less than $50 MM in assets) for more than 5 years, your are taxed at half the then prevailing capital gain rates (right now that would be a tax bite of 10% of profits). I think that Law, enacted by Clinton, was an error, and a partial reason for the proliferation of funding for doubtful entities in the dot.com era. Unfortunately the patch work of taxation legislation has left many distortions in the market place. For instance, interest paid by corporations on debt, is tax deductible, while dividends are not. Guess what, corporations maximize their debt, since interest is deductible (sometimes to excess, getting the company into trouble). On the other hand, since dividends are also taxed to the receiver of said dividends, companies have engaged in borrowing to buy back their own shares (many times at a premium to book value, not very wise). Why are they doing this? It is a way to give stock holders a dividend which is not taxed (MRK as bought some $22 B of its own stock over the last five to 10 years, that is a hidden dividend of almost $7/share over that period). That is a payout of 66% or so of all their cumulative earnings, of course, in the process they had to borrow some $10 B of that. Recently they announced their new buy back program of $10 B, but they have only $4.5 B in cash, so they'll have to borrow some more to do these buy backs (hopefully not, since they are planning the sale of Medco which should bring half of that money in). If dividends to stockholders was not taxable, or was deductible to the companies like interest is, (my preference), then the balance sheets of many companies would have a larger proportion of equity and less debt.

Zeev

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Aquarius

08/17/02 10:20 AM

#16546 RE: jbennett53 #16543

OT - like "10% tax on . . . ALL entities"

Gov't will use the proceeds of your
proposed theft for purchasing votes
instead of shoring up social security;
raising taxes only poisons the economy.

Aquarius


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WinLoseOrDraw

08/17/02 11:03 AM

#16547 RE: jbennett53 #16543

a surtax on short-term gains is unlikely to work because there are too many ways around it and - as usual - the only people caught in the web would be little guys. plus the tax code is already far too complicated.

i agree that criminals need to pay up, but the truth is shareholders already have far, far more power than they chose to wield.

if "investors" would do something as simple as actually reading the financials of the companies they're "investing" in, much of the excess would get stopped before it is started due to the glazed-eye effect. fact is, no legislation - and no amount of legislation - will ever be able to compensate for lazy "investors".

imo investing in mutual funds where you don't know who is running the show and you don't know what they are buying, when they are buying it and why they are buying it, is an obvious example of lazy "investing".

(obviously this doesn't apply to those who choose their mufus on more than the 12-month morningstar ranking.)

traders are also a different breed, and the market ensures a fairly quick weeding-out of the undisciplined. and i'm sure that no traders on this board violate rule #1: don't gamble with money you can't afford to lose.


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brightness

08/17/02 12:24 PM

#16555 RE: jbennett53 #16543

10% surtax on short term capital gain to fund Social Security makes no sense whatsoever. If anything it amounts to highway robbery. The time period that a trader has income from stock trades does not even count in the Social Security benefit "quarter" counts. Why should stock traders be forced into paying into a system that they are not even covered under? If you propose stock traders should be subject to the same self-employment tax and social security/medicare tax/benefits as someone who buys and sells groceries, I may agree with you on principle though it would still cut into my wallet, actually potentially more than 10% depending on income level.

As for more funding for SEC, the SEC is piling up a sizable nest egg just on the SEC fees from all the stock sales. SEC can be more than adequately self-funded.



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Sir Realist

08/17/02 1:26 PM

#16559 RE: jbennett53 #16543

>>investors in small companies should not have to pay capital gains taxes on investments held for 5 years.<<

This would certainly alleviate the need some tech CEOs proclaim, to avoid expensing employee stock options.