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Re: moxa1 post# 10889
Post # of 13487 
Elites demolition of a redundant, asbestos-filled building complex -


The people working in the buildings had
circulated info about a class action lawsuite -
for the asbestos-filled buildings made
cancer for many -

The elites New World Order


Deconstructing the Grand Deception
by Simon Shack -
December 31, 2009
Submitted by jd925 on Thu, 12/31/2009 - 23:14

* Daily Paul Liberty Forum

This is very interesting stuff.. If you are a 9-11 truther, (I assume many still have not come to the point of understanding TV fakery... but I would gather many will get there soon.) There is a lot of disinfo in the TV fakery realm (the closer you get to the truth the more disinfo there is), but September Clues by Simon Shack although not perfect is THE video to watch. I thought Simon Shack was a disinfo agent trying to set up strawman arguments because many of his ideas are very hard to digest at first, but know I actually think he's legitimate... Many times people come out with good material only to turn out to be disinfo agents in the future... (ie. Alexander Colin Ace Baker of TV Fakery fame) Here is Simon Shack's take on 9-11:

Deconstructing the Grand Deception by Simon Shack - December 31, 2009

If you have come to terms with the fact that 9/11 was a massive money-making scheme and - of course - a pretext to wage hugely profitable wars, the basic rationale behind this Grand Deception should, hopefully, become clearer. It is essential to consider all the variables which such an audacious false-flag operation would entail and what precautions its plotters must have observed: The Grand Deception plan was undoubtedly meant to be foolproof and, ideally, free of unnecessary elements of risk and opposition. There was simply no rationale for the 9/11 plotters to commit a mass murder of some 3,000, mostly white-collar professionals (brokers, bankers, financial analysts, etc.) whose families would likely have access to first-rate, ‘uptown’ legal assistance. Surely, killing that many people would have been an utterly senseless, self-inflicted aggravation on the part of the perpetrators. Since they could reliably rely on the fully compliant ‘top-brass’ of the mainstream media, they would have used this unique, exclusive asset to its full potential. Ever since day one, the major hurdle for many people to even start considering 9/11 being an ‘inside job’ has been: “I can’t believe my own government would murder 3000 of their own people”. Once that psychological obstacle is removed, it should become apparent that the whole operation consisted essentially of a covert demolition of a redundant, asbestos-filled building complex. To kill thousands of people in the process never was an envisaged proposition as it would have encountered severe resistance among the insiders involved. The second objective was to blame this destruction on a foreign enemy; an outlandish tale involving hijacked airliners used as missiles was orchestrated, supported by digital imagery and special movie effects. How this was done is thoroughly illustrated in my September Clues video analyses.

WHAT DIDN’T HAPPEN ON 9/11 ( the deceptive imagery )
No unauthorized, private imagery was captured on September 11, 2001. Most - if not all - of the imagery we have of that morning’s events is prefabricated and/or manipulated. The September Clues video research – and many similar independent studies - have amply demonstrated the mainstream media’s unfettered complicity – insofar as the live TV broadcasts are concerned. The 9/11 morning broadcasts were, by and large, digital computer-animations and all successive, so-called “amateur” video snippets (featuring crashing planes or collapsing towers) have likewise been methodically exposed as a series of poorly crafted forgeries. The defining, real-life ‘action shots’ (fake plane crashes and real tower collapses) of the day were simply not meant to be captured on film - much less aired on television: As it is, no real footage of those crucial time windows is to be found. To be sure, the existence of specific, military-grade technology able to achieve this precise aim is well documented. In all likelihood, electromagnetic weaponry (EMP/HERF) routinely employed in war zones was employed, causing the temporary jamming of all unshielded camera equipment *. With no real footage being captured, the TV networks could ‘safely’ broadcast their substitute, artificial imagery of the morning’s events.
* (see : http://www.septemberclues.info/visual_control.htm )

WHAT DID HAPPEN ON 9/11 (the tower collapses)
The ‘ground operations’ in Lower Manhattan called for a coordinated demolition of the entire WTC complex (9 buildings in all). Just what type of explosive forces caused this destruction is hotly debated among scientists galore – yet it is but a secondary and ultimately doomed endeavor - since there is no certifiably authentic rubble nor any authentic imagery to examine. We may however assume (as of the events’ timeline) that the demolition process started a full hour after the alleged “plane strikes”, leaving plenty of time to evacuate the area. The briskly displaced bystanders – as well as more distant eyewitnesses - would have had very slim chances to make out the precise dynamics of the collapses as, most plausibly, smokescreens (military obscurants) started blocking the WTC from view. The time-window of the Lower Manhattan evacuation was “filled in” with two convenient, yet blatantly phony “Distraction Dramas” : The Pentagon and Shanksville mock-events. These two diversions also helped sway the attention away from the absurd absence of helicopter rescues at the WTC. As it is, the improbable tale of 3,000 souls trapped for up to 100 minutes in the WTC top floors (with no rooftop rescues - “due to locked access doors”) may have a simple explanation: The WTC towers were empty. To be sure, all photographs and video snippets depicting people (or silhouettes thereof) falling down the side of the WTC’s have also been comprehensively exposed as digital forgeries. Only time will tell whether any people really were killed on 9/11 - and under what circumstances - but, as things stand, the bulk of available evidence suggests otherwise.

Perhaps – and probably - none. A ‘fanciful’ contention? No. Not if measured against the thoroughly fanciful, grotesquely contrived and conflicting 9/11 ‘victim memorials’. A close scrutiny of the numerous available listings of alleged 9/11 victims provides countless indications that they are, by and large, outright fabrications. Most of them are still easily accessible on the internet by the general public – yet some have been (‘mysteriously’) shut down. Of course, if it’s true that the WTC was fully evacuated, thus follows that the many memorials listing the 9/11 victims must, in turn, be fabricated too. As elaborated below, that is precisely what they appear to be. The 9/11 victim memorials simply do not stand up to scrutiny and comparison. The sheer bulk of inconsistencies and absurdities pervasive in those unseemly listings unveils their true nature : Just another piece of the Grand Deception. Let us see why, point by point :

MEMORIAL PROBLEMS(1): The totals’ nonsense
At a first glance at the various 9/11 memorials, we see that each and every one reports a different casualty toll. Here’s a selection of total figures, all ostensibly meant to represent official and definitive listings of all victims of 9/11 for WTC, Pentagon and “4 flights”- (minus the “19 hijackers”) :

SEPT11th memorial: “3.181”
CNN memorial: “2.985”
FOX News: “2812”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,62151,00.html (full list)
La Repubblica ( Sept11,’09 ): “2.752”
America Forever memorial: “2.467”

As absurd as this may seem, it is a fact that more than 8 years after 9/11, there is still no consensus whatsoever on the total death toll. Indeed, the first and last of the above-listed memorials show a discrepancy of a full 714 names! These are entirely verifiable figures – in full public view. Of course, even a discrepancy of only 2 or 3 victims should be considered unacceptable at this time. Let’s hope that the National 9/11 Memorial, currently under construction in Manhattan will finally reveal to the world the exact number of the 9/11 victims... Whatever that figure will be (and which names will be retained or discarded), the fact remains that for all of 8 years virtually all memorials have displayed wildly conflicting casualty tolls.

Most will remember that, in the days, weeks if not months following 9/11, the news media kept reporting what, admittedly, were speculative casualty figures ( the “20,000 victims” soon became “10,000”). Yet the first, official casualty toll was still a hefty “6,729” (New York Times). Then, a full 12 days after the event, Major Giuliani went on record with an “estimated 6,333 victims ”, a figure which was touted for some time before gradually - and inexplicably - dwindling to less than half that figure. How, one must ask, could it possibly take weeks to obtain reasonably accurate figures of the WTC tenants’ missing employees? Now, this was no tsunami sweeping unfathomably populated coastlines of Indonesia, Thailand or Sri Lanka; these were two confined building-collapses in civilized Manhattan! Undeniably, in the shocked post-disaster climate, the inflated death tolls effectively boosted the drama and the public outrage over the “murderous Binladen attacks”. However, as weeks went by, Mayor Giuliani’s “6,333” estimate started raising a few eyebrows. In time, the news media came up with a ‘shocking news story’ : As the tale went, a horde of greedy, despicable fraudsters were usurping the 9/11 compensation funds claiming the loss of “non-existing, totally made-up relatives”…

A long string of such scams were reported - & denounced with righteous outrage – for weeks on end. Ultimately, even though a whopping total of 400 such “callous con men schemes” were reported, it did little to account for – or even remotely explain – Giuliani’s previous “6,333”estimate (of September23, 2001). The Grand Deception was already creaking and - unbeknown to most – initiating its own, inevitable collapse.
Now, some people will argue that these wild inaccuracies were brought about by “the havoc and confusion” surrounding the 9/11 events. Fine. Let us not argue about it - and agree for now on at least one incontrovertible fact: Between the first official NYT death toll figure (6729) and the figure found on, for instance, the “America Forever” memorial (2467), we have a discrepancy/margin of error of 4262 ‘units’. These are plain and simple arithmetics. Lastly, let it be said that the vast majority of "9/11 victims" are NOT listed in the SSDI (Social Security Death Index). The few that ARE to be found listed on the SSDI are usually names that have been cited in the press, i.e. more 'prominent' and 'public' victims...

MEMORIAL PROBLEMS(2): The ghost names nonsense
So, how do these conflicting death tolls translate as one takes a close look at the various memorials? Does that mean we may find random, ‘ghost’ victims listed on some memorials, complete with tributes and obituaries, who are simply missing on others? Yes. Is there a significant amount of such nonsensical examples, such as to rule out ‘innocent sloppiness’ on the part of the various memorial curators? Yes. Let’s take a look, for instance, at the “Wall of Americans” memorial. At the very top of letter “A”, we find two people named “AALYIGH”.

user posted image

Inexplicably, the two “AALYIGH”s (as indeed many other names) are found only in some memorials and are absent from others (such as CNN’s). Now, imagine for a minute that your surname is “Aalyigh”. Would you not try contacting (in over 8 years) the ‘offending’ 9/11 memorials and have them correct their listings? Who are the “Aalyigh’s”? Or perhaps we should ask : why are the “Aalyigh’s” to be found only in selected memorials? Is there indeed anyone called “Aalyigh” on this planet apart from Diana Aalyigh (Die-In-A-Lie?) and Justin Aalyigh (Just- In-A-Lie?). One may be tempted to surmise that some brave whistleblower was trying to tell us some truth about 9/11: “it’s all AALYIGH”.
Interestingly, the Wall of Americans memorial has now been shut down. This is the message we may find on the blank internet page which ‘explains’ its sudden closure:

user posted image

Then, staying with letter “A”, there is the case of Mrs. “Cici AADA”, another of the many ‘ghost names’ to be found bouncing around the various 9/11 memorials. Now, if you google “AADA” you will bump right into the “American Academy of Dramatic Arts”. http://www.aada.org/home/home.html
A coincidence, perhaps. However, since a great deal of characters rotating within the 9/11 saga (Mark Humphrey, Gary Welz, et al) have been exposed as professional actors, one may reasonably wonder whether this also could be the work of a heroic whistleblower. The fact remains that “Cici (See-See?) AADA” and both the “AALYIGH’s” are only to be found on a few 9/11 memorials – and are simply missing on others (most notably the CNN memorial).
There are plenty more examples of ‘ghost names’ appearing only in selected 9/11 memorials. To list them all in this article (with comprehensive cross-comparisons between all the lists) is not realistic and would surely be a tedious read. So let’s just compare three alphabetical groups (Q, X, Y, Z) which contain moderate amounts of names (so that the reader may easily check out these facts personally).Below is a list of 9/11 memorials; for each one we have the number of people listed under the surname initials “Q”, “X”, “Y” & “Z”:

CNN memorial : http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memorial/...name/index.html
Q:8 X:0 Y:20 Z:24
VOICES OF SEPTEMBER11 : http://voicesofsept11.org/dev/memorial_fam...tocitems=1,6,13
Q:8 X:0 Y:20 Z:25
IN MEMORIAM ONLINE : http://inmemoriamonline.net/List_WTC-Q.html
Q:7 X:0 Y:15 Z:19
SEPTEMBER 11TH MEMORIAL : http://www.sept11thmemorial.com/all_names.asp
Q:16 X:0 Y:25 Z:26
FOX memorial : http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,62151,00.html
Q:9 X:0 Y:21 Z:24
CYPRESS TIMES http://www.thecypresstimes.com/article/New...9_11_2001/24432
Q:9 X:0 Y:13 Z:23
PRAYERS FOR PEACE http://www.prayersforpeace.org/wall.shtml
Q:11 X:4 Y:24 Z:26

MEMORIAL PROBLEMS(3): The prosaic nonsense
A common aspect of the various 9/11 memorials are the consistently sappy and contrived tributes supposedly posted by families, co-workers and friends. We are talking about thousands of brief writings which, of course, require some steady patience to sift through. However, and for what it’s worth, I can personally testify that it’s hard to find any 9/11 tribute graced with any ring of authenticity. The prevalent impression is that they are written by the same person – or at best – by a gang of bored, unimaginative novelists. Naturally, some will retort that this is a ‘subjective’, personal interpretation; I can only encourage everyone to spend some time reading those tributes for themselves. Taken together, those tributes read like an endlessly reshuffled concoction of mawkish and tear-jerking rhetoric. I’m confident that anyone armed with a critical mind – and a healthy sense of humor - will actually enjoy sifting through these tributes as an eye-opening, entertaining and slightly surreal experience. Best of all, this ‘enjoyment’ comes with an odd sense of relief and appeasment as one gradually comes to realize that:
1. The 9/11 memorials are all in conflict with each other.
2. The 9/11 memorials are anything but credible tributes to real victims of a real terror attack.
3. Perhaps, in the light of these facts, few - or nobody - died in the “9/11 attacks”.

(Author’s appeal: I welcome anyone asserting to be a family member of a 9/11 victim to come forward with documentation – such as would be admissible in a court of law - of their loved one’s existence and passing. I can be reached on my private e-mail posted here: http://www.septemberclues.info ).

MEMORIAL PROBLEMS(4): The portrait-morphing evidence
Three main observations can be drawn from a methodical cross-scrutiny of the many 9/11 memorials which feature portraits of the “victims” – henceforth referred to as “entities”:

1: Most of the “entities” found in the memorials are represented with two - and no more than two apparently different portraits.

2: When two seemingly different portraits of a given entity are compared, they reveal more often than not striking similarities in facial expression, pose, angle/perspective, lighting, reflections.

3. Striking similarities are also observed between separate, often alphabetically adjacent entities of same or different sex. While a few such cases might be expected in a list of 2500+ portraits, the sheer frequency of such instances featuring seemingly ‘cloned’ facial attributes cannot reasonably (in a statistical sense) be ascribed to ‘coincidence’ or ‘happenstance’.

Obviously, this topic needs to be visualized by the reader since it deals with photographic issues. Please look up this illustrated article for image-supported descriptions of this issue:
(Other interesting issues related to the metadata - or ‘exif’ data - embedded in all the “.jpg” picture files will, in time, be comprehensively expounded and added to this article.)
For a comprehensive study of the 9/11 memorials, please read the “Vicsim Report” by Hoi Polloi:

Some of the more prominent ‘casualties’ of 9/11 - such as “Flight93-hero Todd M. Beamer”- have long been exposed as stolen identities from previously deceased namesakes . The Barbara Olson story also turned out to be a fraud when Ted Olson (George W. Bush’s solicitor general) was caught altering 3 times his tale of her alleged phone calls from “Flight77”. Similarly, “the 9/11 victim number 0001”, Father Mychal Judge, was another faith-based saga for devout believers: At least three different versions of the causes/circumstances of his death were published by the news media – and the evacuation of his corpse from the WTC has also been exposed as another staged photo-op. In other words, the stories surrounding the 9/11 “VIP” casualties are riddled with so many questions as to be divested of any sort of credibility. With such an abundance of deceptive, media-promoted bunkum, it is perfectly reasonable to question every single official newsstory to emerge from the events of September 11, 2001.

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I responded to someone in another forum about Hollywood 9-11
Submitted by jd925 on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 04:44.

His post:
Even if there was TV fakery, I think that you are undermining truth movement by claiming such an outrageous belief without proof. You must know that you immediately turn off most people when you claim that, so it's a losing argument and actually hurts the quest for truth because it discredits all of us.

My response:
Your statement disappoints me coming from a fellow truther. To me it's hypocritical. It is the most guarded truths that will get attacked the most. If it truly was outrageous without proof, no one would give it second thought. There is more proof to me of TV fakery/Hollywood 9-11 than most other aspects of 9-11 research. I think you guys will come around if you really seek to.

There's something about the truth that I've realized.... I used to think people would have to get eased into understanding the truth.... take baby steps.... but I think it's far better that people are exposed to the truth, no matter how difficult it may be to understand at first, than to risk never being exposed at all..... the truth stands on it's own and needs no help. Truth is what it is and shines on it's own..

There are many disinfo agents in the 9-11 movement.. many are TV-fakery promoters that serve to discredit the theory or be gatekeepers... Nico Haupt is one long time TV fakery shill that dresses up like a bum and gets into scuffles with other truthers to make others not want to associate with TV fakery... David (former MI-5) Shayler was a TV fakery disinfo agent that started claiming he was the Messiah... John Lear who promotes 'moon-base' disinfo is another TV-fakery shill.. they all try to discredit the TV fakery theory by trying to own it and running it off a cliff with them.. when the momentum shifted to TV fakery following the release of September Clues, Alexander Ace Baker (disinfo Mossad shill connected with Vizrt -animation company- and actors Mark Humphrey and Dan McNulty...) tried to co-opt the TV fakery movement and ended up faking a suicide on radio after his connections got exposed... despite all this disinfo more and more people are coming around to TV fakery and Hollywood 9-11..

Feel free to go ahead and talk about the thermate or thermite and muddle around in the truth movement just like the last five plus years..... but more and more people will understand:


Cast members of Hollywood 9-11:

Mark Humphrey
Darren McNulty
Gary Welz
"Jersey Girls" - Kristen Breitweiser, Patty Casazza, Lorie Van Auken, and Mindy Kleinberg
John Perry
Alexander Ace Baker
Tania Head
Mary Fetchet
Carol Ashley
Carie Lemack
Barbara Olson
Sally Regenhard
Howard Lutnick
Deena Burnett

..... and others...

Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth
- Henry David Thoreau

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You Are Blinded By Some Very Deceptive Cointelpro
Submitted by Thomas on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 05:39.

"Evidence" designed to discredit the legitimate 911 truth movement and now you bump this in the middle of the night.

Godlike Productions or some site of the same ilk would possibly more of a home for you on this particular subject because it just won't "fly" here.


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Submitted by jd925 on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 19:29.

Could I be blinded? Sure. I'm always open to the possibility. At the same time I would suggest you take a closer look at this theory and reevaluate your analysis.

There are a growing number of people that understand TV fakery/Hollywood 9-11 and will be exposing: Actors, Actresses, and Victim Hoaxes.

This particular thread has good ratings, as does Simon Shack's latest September Clues video that has 677 ratings averaging 4.5 stars and over 70,000 views so to say this theory won't fly here doesn't seem to hold.

It's actually important to me to highlight my beliefs here because I believe in the people here at Daily Paul. I would like to have the TV fakery/9-11 Hollywood theory out in the open so people could decide for themselves what makes sense to them.

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Submitted by Thomas on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 20:15.

I have been studying this since I saw the second plane live that morning. I don't care about Simon Shack,September Clues (and yes I have watched it more than once). It is very craftily put together to divide people just as is the mini nuke theory.

How did they bluescreen this????

I am of the opinion that if people are not willing to look at the neocon dual citizen Israeli's that were rife in the upper level of Bushes cabinet then they are fools that will get screwed harder next time. (we still need to pass a law to end this)

I'll tell you this once and once only. The person that headed this whole thing up and was pulling Cheney's strings name is Dov Zacheim. He is the master mind of the entire operation (PNAC crew) and I have no doubt about this.And once you look into his background and see the company's he was part of at the time you'll clearly see how they did this but that's all I'm giving you. Hint: Dov Z + Remote Control Guidance Systems...happy hunting hope you get off this nonsense because all it does confuse people.


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Are you kidding me ?
Submitted by essay on Mon, 01/04/2010 - 13:46.

The amount of EMP required to knock out cameras within photographic range would also knock out computers, cell phones, automobile fuel computers, watches, dvd players, tv's and pacemakers.

Where are the reports of the mountains of electronics being taken to repair shops ? How about the land fill ? No ???

Secondly, whenever I read 'vortex', my ears perk right up. Its usually followed by a complex explanation for a very simply phenomenon. Think about draining the sink, running a bag-less vacuum, or flushing the toilet. Sometimes its followed by discussions of free-energy, joe cells, magnetic motors, zero point energy or other nonsense.

Think about the amount of energy stored in the pressure difference between a vortex (low pressure) and the surrounding atmosphere, for a given volume of displacement. It's MINUSCULE IN COMPARISON to TONES OF KEROSENE (jet fuel), being burned in A FEW SECONDS. Your 'mighty' vortex would not affect diddly.

Most (not all) of the conspiracy theory promoters have one agenda, money. Most (not all) use the same tactic: if you can't find something that should be there, or you find something that you would not expect, ITS THE NEW WORLD ORDER !

This guy is promoting a web site, to be paid for by a DVD with hour long, re-hashed discussions and looping video we have all seen. DVD's and Google Google adwords.

If you want an brief education about how an engineer or scientist sets up a chain of though, related to a very current topic, check out Burt Rutan's discussion of Global Warming, sorry, Anthropogenic Climate Change. It's very informative and shows off Rutan's awesome pair of mental nuts.

(this is part 1 of 6)

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I was in FL when 9/11
Submitted by Maeve on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 19:55.

I was in FL when 9/11 happened. We had no cell, landline, or internet service for nearly an hour. The tv still ran, but communications were cut off. I remember that very clearly.

Blessings )o(

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re: First of all
Submitted by onebornfreedotb... on Mon, 01/04/2010 - 12:57.

"The engines do not create vortices,they are created at the wing tips,and you are right about one thing,when the wings folded up during impact the vortices would stop instantly.and it makes sense that the compressor blades on the turbine engines would be jammed instantly with debris.
I have had this very conversation with two of my very best friends ,one works for Boeing and the other for Northrop Grumman.
Inertia and mass velocity would have made even a dime sized piece of debris "follow" the plane into the building."

True patriot, Let's cut to the chase.

Bottom line: you believe the various "amateur" videos depicting Fl 175 gliding effortlessly in/through WTC2 without slowing down and with no parts breaking off show real time events, and there is absolutely NOTHING that will convince you otherwise, right? .

On the other hand, because of the work of people like Mr Shack http://www.septemberclues.info/, I and others have come to believe that practically all 911 media imagery including that of Fl.175, was/is the product of computers and movie effects software- and there is NOTHING that you can do about that smile. [ I've heard every one of your arguments over the years from various sources, and none hold up for me.

What you choose to believe is your own business and responsibility, just as what I choose to believe based on the evidence I review, is for me.

Others here may or may not reach mine and Mr Shacks conclusions- or they may reach yours -and I don't really care which it is.

As always those conclusions depend on the individuals aptitude for clear, unbiased, independent thought, and knowledge of a few, easy to understand, simple scientific, and legal, principles.

regards, www.onebornfree.blogspot.com

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Nice Work...
Submitted by Thomas on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 05:52.

With your "Evidence" designed to discredit the legitimate 911 truth movement...

Member for
1 week 6 days

Post's by this member.... All propounding clear disinformation to discredit the 911 truth movement that's it nothing more to see from this member at this point.

re: First of all
Plane Vortices etc.
False in One False in All?
No Wake Vortices Visible [Fl 175]
"False in One, False in All" ["Fake, Fake, Fake!"]


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With respect !
Submitted by ATruepatriot on Mon, 01/04/2010 - 13:10.

Yes,you are welcome to believe in the theory,I don't argue this.
I was merely pointing out physical flaws in the theory,I have viewed the tapes myself and having a very good understanding of physics,"see" it from a different angle.
I was put out of business at the time by this happening and when I first heard that it could have been a result of a conspiracy I was furious and tried to help prove the theory, but after years of trying to I came to the realization that I could not!

"We are fighting for our Rats",Rats?,"Yes sir our Rats!"
Captured Confederate soldier in the Movie
Gods and Generals.

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The evidence is just so staggering
Submitted by alaney on Mon, 01/04/2010 - 11:02.

Anyone who cannot see the inside conspiracy here is just "too blind to see". All we need to ask is a simple proposition:

The Pentagon is the most heavily video monitored building in the free world - 24/7, land and space video around the clock. Surviellence everywhere!

Show me one picture of a commercial airplane in view of the Pentagon and I'll shut up. Can't, can you?

What is staggering, is that all media are in on it, and no real whistle blower has emerged.

alan laney

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big bump
Submitted by quiltingsando on Mon, 01/04/2010 - 10:15.

and bookmarked.

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After researching 9/11 for 2
Submitted by kentrailer on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 21:21.

After researching 9/11 for 2.5 solid years of doing practically nothing else- I came across Simon Shack's work, and it is legitimate.

- No wake vortices visible in any of the footage in the ensuing fireball or smoke.

- Impossible flight speeds for the 2nd strike, more than 120MPH faster than what a Boeing can do, even with a veteran pilot

- Contradictory visual evidence during the 2nd strike, as one shot from Brooklyn shows a completely level approach path, while another shot shows a completely different 'dive bomber' approach.

- Moving Verrazano Narrows Bridge footage is probably the most incriminating, as the bridge moves drastically in the background, while the towers' perspectives remain unchanged.

- Voiceover acting used the exact same womans voice for multiple supposedly separately submitted shots.

- Different color hues, but the exact same camera angles shared across most networks.

- Flight tracker software showed the 2nd WTC plane flying northeast out of Manhattan, while it should have supposedly ended it's flight into the tower.

- All the footage provided came from people connected to media.. Most of the people interviewed are paid actors in 'real life'.

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No Wake Vortices Visible [Fl 175]
Submitted by onebornfreedotb... on Mon, 01/04/2010 - 09:45.

"After researching 9/11 for 2.5 solid years of doing practically nothing else- I came across Simon Shack's work, and it is legitimate."

Congratulations, it took me 7 years to come to the same conclusions - guess I'm a slow/cautious learner smile

"- No wake vortices visible in any of the footage in the ensuing fireball or smoke."

Exactly. A very telling point- as are the others you listed.


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Simple Physics
Submitted by ATruepatriot on Mon, 01/04/2010 - 11:21.

Planes create vortices only when moving at a certain speed and are actually a "Drag Coefficient" at the wing tips,They are actually trying to pull the plane backwards.
If a plane stops moving instantly the vortices cease immediately,and will create a small vacuum in the direction the plane came from.

"We are fighting for our Rats",Rats?,"Yes sir our Rats!"
Captured Confederate soldier in the Movie
Gods and Generals.

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Plane Vortices etc.
Submitted by onebornfreedotb... on Mon, 01/04/2010 - 11:38.

"Planes create vortices only when moving at a certain speed "

So a plane reportedly flying at the [impossible]speed of 500+mph at 700feet conveniently creates no vortices from the engines?
smile smile smile smile

"If a plane stops moving instantly" .

And yet every available film of Fl 175 show it flying through/inside WTC2 without even slowing down !

And if it _had_ stopped completely, as you conveniently maintain, most of the parts [tail, wings, engines etc. ] would have instantly sheared off outside the building.

Come on, you can do better than that, surely?


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First of all
Submitted by ATruepatriot on Mon, 01/04/2010 - 11:56.

The engines do not create vortices,they are created at the wing tips,and you are right about one thing,when the wings folded up during impact the vortices would stop instantly.and it makes sense that the compressor blades on the turbine engines would be jammed instantly with debris.
I have had this very conversation with two of my very best friends ,one works for Boeing and the other for Northrop Grumman.
Inertia and mass velocity would have made even a dime sized piece of debris "follow" the plane into the building.

"We are fighting for our Rats",Rats?,"Yes sir our Rats!"
Captured Confederate soldier in the Movie
Gods and Generals.

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It Happened!
Submitted by ATruepatriot on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 10:15.

At the time I had satellite access to all the major network to affiliate feeds,and was looking for some news that morning.When field reporters were getting ready to do live feeds of unrelated topics and were interrupted by the towers being hit while live.They had no clue and we all watched it happen live.They were primping to go on live and practicing their "spots",It did happen,I watched it from beginning to end on several different feeds.

"We are fighting for our Rats",Rats?,"Yes sir our Rats!"
Captured Confederate soldier in the Movie
Gods and Generals.

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"False in One, False in All" ["Fake, Fake, Fake!"]
Submitted by onebornfreedotb... on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 12:36.

Yes, I agree with Mr Shack.

After at first appearing patently absurd, it seems to me to now be very obvious [thanks to his unrelenting work], that most, if not all of the footage aired by the media on 9/11 was faked on computers, as were all "amateur" videos showing aircraft [regardless of actual airspeed capabilties at 700 feet], magically penetrating buildings in one piece without slowing down, and without any parts whatsoever [let alone most!], shearing off at impact smile ; as was all media footage showing two 1300 feet high, 500,000 ton steel and concrete buildings magically collapsing from top to bottom in 10- 17 seconds [depending on which "live"collapse version you happen to time].

And now it looks highly likely that many, if not all, of the supposed tower victims names were faked on computers as well, along with their alleged photographic likenesses.

As the female lead in "Seinfeld" tells Jerry when discussing her supposed orgasms with her former lover: "Fake, fake , fake!"


At the same time, the reality is that the typical, violently negative reactions [like some here] to even considering this type of information as valid,[Mr Shack's video presentation is available for viewing and consideration here : http://www.septemberclues.info/ ], is wholly predictable , given that the reality of ALL movements, regardless of whether it be the "Ron Paul movement", the "libertarian movement", the "911 truth movement [eg the "loose change/prison planet crowd"] or something else entirely [i.e any other political or quasi- political "movement you care to name - take your pick!], ALWAYS end working actively to suppress information that is seen as a threat to that "movement" .

A true search for truth becomes secondary and eventually counterproductive and therefor subordinate to the furtherance of the group agenda [usually political in nature] .

Therefor, more than likely, for political[i.e group] reasons, Mr Shacks research will continue be rejected and/or suppressed within the "Ron Paul movement", the "Libertarian movement", the "Austro- Anarcho- Capitalist" movement, the "911 Truth movement", etc. etc. as well as elsewhere, even, dare I say it, within any future so-called "September Clues Truth Movement" that might come into existence "down the road" smile

However, all of those predictable "foaming at the mouth"and accompanying verbal and "logical" contortions/denials etc. of Mr Shack's work ARE highly amusing, to say the least! smile


For those that do not know, there is a simple legal principle named "false in one false in all"[try "googling" that phrase], whereby a judge may instruct a trial jury that should they find that any part of a witness/entities testimony to be false then they have the incontestable right to discount all "evidence" provided by that person/entity.

Therefor,and according to that principle, should anyone find any one part of the government/media 911 story to be false, then it is perfectly acceptable for that person tothen conclude that _all_ "evidence" supplied by the government/media and/or "witnesses", is either knowingly false, or simply to be distrusted, until definitively proven otherwise.

This judge to jury instruction would seem to be particularly relevant for the "Loose Change" and "PrisonPlanet" "911 truth" crowd- however,for like I said, "political purposes" it probably won't be frown


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Thanks for the 'false in one - false in all' legal principle...
Submitted by jd925 on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 20:47.

Interesting concept... and I do agree with it in the context of what you are speaking about... (although keep in mind sometimes people might attempt to try to build straw man/ad hominem arguments on trivial matters to divert attention away from more important things from a true witness using a similar principle)

It seems as though there are large amounts of people working in the media and video animation production that may have had larger roles in this 'Grand Deception'.

Anyways... this is taken from the "9/11 Actors" thread at the September Clues website:

1) Eric Shawn - FOX Terror expert
Does anyone know ERIC SHAWN? He was the guy who posed as a "terror expert" right after a FOX anchor mentioned "BINLADEN" only 41 SECONDS after the second strike. (Appeared in Gremlins 1990)"

2) Mary Fetchet - Carol Ashley - Carie Lemack
These three women - who purportedly lost loved ones on 9/11 - appear to be the Homeland Security lobby's equivalent to the 'heroic, justice-seeking' JERSEY GIRLS. All you have to do is to read this paper to understand what they are up to - what their role is and who their handlers might be:

Improving Americas Security Act http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=...7531&id=7540892

3)Barbara Olsen

From other sites (ie. Ozzybinoswald)

4) Gary Welz -
9-11 actor/truther disinfo agent/ plane witness / mathematician/computer graphics expert/suicide-terror script writer in early 90's

5) Mark Adrian Humphrey - Actor / Harley Guy
There seems to be a lot of counter disinfo to disassociate Mark Humphrey with the Harley Guy...
Darren McNulty (Weezula)
Kevin McNulty (actor in Lone Gunman '9-11' prediction X-files spinoff??!)
Phoenician Entertainment

6) Devin Clark
"Devin Clark is a large and powerful MANimator! His work is offensive, only in that his ideas are so revolutionary that upon exposure they cause most people's minds to explode...or at the very least lower their I.Q. 20 points. When he is not promoting false knowledge he draws horrible pictures to frighten small children. His masterpieces are smeared all over the television. Comedy Central, MTV, TCM and HBO have all been cursed with his magic. He will draw things. He will make them move. He will curl up in the corner and cry like a baby elk.
Be it comics, film, illustration or animation Devin Clark has a passion for telling stories, and the stranger the better. Devin has been involved with a broad range of projects including work for HBO, MTV, Comedy Central, TCM, and The Cartoon Network applying his design and narrative skills to everything from network graphics to traditional cartoons. His films and animation have been featured in Stash Magazine, Animation Block Party, Rooftop Films, Ottawa Film Festival, Platform, and BDA. He is presently running his own animation shop in Brooklyn where he just completed the first season of his animated web-series, 5ON, for Comedy Central.

7) Alexander Colin Ace Baker
(of TV Fakery ghostplane fame)
Connected with Vizrt:

More info at:

It would be good to do further research on these people and many others in media\video animation\photography............

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False in One False in All?
Submitted by onebornfreedotb... on Mon, 01/04/2010 - 09:46.

"Thanks for the 'false in one - false in all' legal principle..."

We each have to be our own judge and jury in this matter, as well as elsewhere [it is very useful to adhere to the same principle in one's personal affairs- for example].

In the case of analyzing supposed facts about 9/11, I was thinking more of the atypical "Loose Change truther" who says "yes it was an inside job- the buildings were obviously demolished with pre-planted explosives- but yes, planes STILL flew into/through those buildings" or similar ["because the government says the flights existed and because I saw it all live on TV- and anyway all those witnesses could not be lying" etc.].

In other words, "the government/media lied to us about why the buildings collapsed- but I believe they are telling us/showing us the truth about everything else". smile

Another variation on this [I believe false] line of logic emerges with the Ace Baker/Morgan Reynolds/Judy Woods "crowd", all of whom agree that the plane images were faked, yet unreasonably continue to insist that the collapse videos are authentic , and that plane images themselves were only inserted into otherwise live "feeds".

The "false in one false in all" principle is handy in that it allows you to question the internal logic of both the "Loose Change/Prison Planet crowd", and the "Ace Baker/Morgan Reynolds/Judy Woods crowd, as well as that of anyone else who believes that the government has lied about any part of its "story" [eg WTC7], and yet continues to [unreasonably in my opinion] believe that it is telling the truth about everything else!


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The purpose of the 9-11 attacks was not to take your freedom...
Submitted by SimpleSam on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 02:12.

The "PURPOSE" of the 9-11 attacks was to PROFIT in the trillions of dollars, so the Military Industrial Complex could get fat and rich off of non-stop wars for Israel's hegemony and instill a Global Currency.

That is the bigger picture...they were looking to do all of those things above, taking away your freedoms using the Patriot Act was merely the icing on the million dollar cake....It was a delicious bonus!

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It wasn't an after thought or
Submitted by lowgens02 on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 03:36.

It wasn't an after thought or a bonus. These acts were all planned together from the Patriot Act to the planning of the illegal invasions on the Middle East,Asia & Persia to plunder their resources and line the pockets of the chicken hawk fat cats,the attack on 9/11 to the anthrax attacks,financial false flag attacks.The raping of our civil liberties and the trillion dollar scams were all pre-planned and meant
to coincide together. Democrat Senators Tom Daschle
and Patrick Leahy were set to launch an immediate
investigation into the Patriot Act as it was rushed
into act overnight and nobody had a chance to read
over...hence the reason Dick Cheney ordered that the
letters of Anthrax (military grade from Fort Detrick
lab in Maryland)be sent to their office. Cheney and
the squad at it's finest moment failed to execute
those men but it stop them from investigating the
Patriot Act. They became as quiet as Harry Whittington,
Cheney's Attorney who he tried to kill during a hunting
trip. Whittington was so frightened that he even apologized to Cheney and he was the victim LOL.

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Right but it misses the big picture...
Submitted by SimpleSam on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 03:42.

The BIG picture is they needed these terrorist attacks due to how big the business is, inflation wise.

They can't print out another three trillion dollars of inflationary FUNNY MONEY unless the public has it justified. Undeclared illegal wars by the public would make it....justified.

Cheney is a terrorist and a communist, I know someone who took a shot at him. But he's no more frightening then the ninnies who actually run the Fed. He's on the LOWER totem pole of the Federal Reserve scam, only just as vicious...

These guys planned it, in order to force the public to beg for an international currency. Think in terms of inflation. No excuse or pretext for a new currency....until the old one is maxed out just like a credit card, and they can EASILY print another trillion without a sweat.

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If you will allow me to ask
Submitted by LeifEiriksson on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 02:30.

If you will allow me to ask how could they profit in the trillions of dollars if the wars themselves only cost maybe a trillion? And maybe I'm ill-informed, but since these people already supposedly own the world and have billions or trillions of dollars of wealth anyway, what would be the purpose of concocting 9/11 to only make themselves a little richer and risk exposing themselves to the world?

Ron Paul - Youtube's Best

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Because they are INFATUATED with money and power....
Submitted by SimpleSam on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 02:50.

- The reason is so simple that you do not need to be a rocket scientist to see it from their eyes.

#It happens in ONLY 4 short scenarios:

A )The wars that were going to erupt would make the defense establishment billions of dollars richer, due to the amount of contracts being signed with Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Halliburton and the rest of the major weapons dealers whom own the media.
B )Once the defense firms like Lockheed and Boeing had a financial upswing of over 40 billion dollars, the Federal Reserve could then print an additional 2-5 trillion dollars to cover it.
C )By covering the same wars they just created, the Bankers were able to triple their supply of money in just a few short years by channeling the printed money all inside of major government "NO BID" contracts...in effect they wouldn't have to deflate & they would do what Vegas calls 'double up'
D )Again, once all the money was accounted for the top sleazebag in this operation, Doctor Henry Kissinger, could demand a full scale derivatives freeze to keep their ill-gotten profits on the books: FORCING a planned economic meltdown. With a successful meltdown and inflation, Kissinger and his fellow bankers could get the population to BEG for an International Reserve Currency run by the IMF. The International Reserve would replace the dollar entirely, allowing the whole world to be unified under a world government.

This new currency would have Israel and the MIC's greedy hands all over it, being totally controlled. This international currency would allow them to control major expansion projects in Southeast Asia. It was the purpose of 9-11 since the beginning. Eliminate all the pesky Arab nations on a crusade to claim absolute superiority, and then bend nations to your will using a pre-planned International Reserve which would both bail out the banks, bail out the bankers, and form a permanent world government of absolute adept rule.

From there they could control everything else. The whole point of the terror attacks was to take over the dollar so that everyone else chomps at the bit for a Global Federal Reserve system to "free" them all while instituting total control.

Federal Reserve was the beginning game.
September 11 2001 was the middle ender game.
Global Federal Reserve is the end game.

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Simon Shack Cult Crowd
Submitted by lowgens02 on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 01:41.

This article is the biggest disinformation hit piece I've ever seen. The Simon Shack followers are as bad as the Jimmy Jones followers, please drink the kool aid,please.

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OK, then riddle me this
Submitted by greatscott on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 03:03.

OK, then riddle me this lowgens02?

1.) 2 towers, 110 storys tall, collapse in a perfect, free fall, completely vertical.
2.) Hi rise buildings of this magnitude have never collapsed from a fire.
3.) No fighter jets scrambled.
4.) Rookie 767 pilots slam into both towers pretty much dead aim, with no prior 767 experience.
5.) UAL and AA stock shorted 10 times the normal values the Friday before.
6.) Camera aimed at the north tower exactly the same time when the first 767 slams into it.
7.) Both towers had exstensive elevator electrical upgrades for the prior 12 months.
8.) BYU engineering department studys dust samples and finds an alarming amount of Nano Thermomite.
9.) BYU engineering dept head is fired after he holds a press confernce announcing their conclusion.
10.) Building 7 collapses at 5:15 PM, never announced by the State Run Media, never touched by an airplane.
11.) Building 7 collaspe announced by BBC at 4:45 PM, video tape clearly shows Building 7 standing in the background when the reporter makes the announcement.
12.) The 911 Commission Report never mentions eye witnesses that were interviewed by the FBI.
13.) Then there are the discrepencies of the Pentagon and the crash in the Pennsylvania country side.

The list goes on and on. 911 was an inside job. The truth hurts, I know it took me a long time to admit to the real truth. Look how our Government has behaved since then. One law after the next strips away our freedoms. So tell me, what flavor is the Kool Aide? Fruit punch or orange?

The Constitution is just a Goddamned piece of paper- G W Bush

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Simon Shack and the Cointelpro Agents
Submitted by lowgens02 on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 03:09.


I know all about those facts and then about 5,000 more where those came from. I am a 9/11 Truther and have researched 9/11 for 12 hours a day 7 days a week for
4 years now. My point is, the Simon Shack and September
Clues "WTC No Planer" theories do nothing but discredit
the movement and would slow down any further chances of
getting a new fair and open investigation into the criminal acts of 9/11.Some people within this Shack
crowd have even tried to spout the Holocaust Denier
gospel as well. I have the proof saved in my FB inbox
and files. No planes hit the WTC Twin Towers? Really?
I have plenty of film and photos that prove otherwise.
Yes there was plenty of media deception indeed but the
no planer theory is the main issue that they push and
it simply is done so to discredit the movement and the
truth. This has Cointelpro written all over it. How ironic that they have decided to use the Ron Paul site
to now try and discredit Paul and his people of the Ron
Paul Revolution who is fighting the good fight against
the tyrannical and fascist agenda of the United States

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Apology To Simon Shack & Company
Submitted by lowgens02 on Mon, 01/11/2010 - 13:10.

I wish to apologize to Simon and those who I accused of being Cointelpro. I regret the error of judgement and
come to realize that, although we have our disagreements
in some of the conclusions of evidence, we do have one thing in common and that is that the U.S. government and their partner in crimes such as Israel..England..
Saudi's and Pakistan are 100% guilty of committing the heinous act of mass murder of 9/11.Keep up the good work in the fight for the truth and injustice of these murderous acts.

Mike S

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Correct lowgens02 This Guy Is Either Disinfo Deluxe Or
Submitted by Thomas on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 04:23.

just plain old retarded like Dave from LionandLambMinistries

Heres jd925 over a year ago pushing this September Clues crap.

September Clues is for the clueless.

(this thread needs to be locked like the one from a year ago)


Paper Ballots Hand Counted At The Precinct Or Bust
Support WTP Federal Supreme Court Case To Ban All Electronic Voting Or Forget 2010 or 2012

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Yes I strongly believe in TV Fakery / no-plane theory
Submitted by jd925 on Sun, 01/03/2010 - 05:04.

I think 10-20% of the 9-11 truth movement believe in these TV fakery/ no-plane theories (You really have to ask why TV fakery proponents get the same treatment/tactics from truthers as truthers get from non-truthers ... the closer you get, the more intense the disinfo... 911blogger/loose change forums censor/ban people from discussing it... 911movement.org forum which had a lot of good no-plane threads has been down for months....)

Why do I believe in TV fakery / no-plane theory?
1) Newton's 3rd law / Crash physics (aluminum plane melting into concrete-reinforced steel building does not happen)
2) nose-in/nose-out video fakery (September Clues)
3) Boeing 767's were not designed to go 500+mph at lower altitudes (much higher air density) Boeing engineer who designed the shaker system discusses this...
...etc (see other thread)..

I discuss no-plane/TV fakery videos with 9-11 truthers (most people here at DP are) because I think most have not gotten to that point yet (but eventually I think they will) and I think it's important that truthers get there... (I stick to WTC7 when discussing 9-11 with other non-truthers...)

Anyways can Simon Shack possibly be disinfo? Sure. I think Alexander Colin Ace Baker (who did a very good Ghostplane TV fakery video) is a cointel/disinfo/Mossad agent..

However, even if Shack is ultimately disinfo that does not change my thoughts that TV fakery was involved ...no plane hit the WTCs... and that elements of the media should be a huuuuge focus....


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